Topic: User Impressions/Reviews Thread

@LtSarge Thanks for the detailed reply. Honestly, the modern day soap opera connecting the games is probably the biggest thing keeping me from trying the series, since I don't like jumping into the middle of an ongoing storyline, but also have no desire to play the older games. It sounds like it's not too much of a focus in this entry, though, by the way you describe it.

@RogerRoger

I do this periodically. Actually, I just realized I'm doing it right now, which is what prompted me to make this post. Sometimes for up to half a month at a time, but usually less. Although it has nothing to do with frustration. I can be enjoying a game just fine, a breaker in my brain will trip, and I just stop wanting to play anything for a while.

It's like I came with a pre-programmed behavioral setting that allows me to avoid the "burn out" people describe in this hobby.

🧟The Last of Us Part II🧟

Introduction — (Ugh, not another The Last of Us Part II review…)

— “May she guide you.”

The Last of Us Part II is a game that is very difficult to review. In fact, I’ve written and then rewritten this review several times over. Each time I feel like the review either rehashed dozens of discussions already had about the game or it didn’t really convey my thoughts accurately enough.

For starters, I would refer the reader to the two already existing user reviews on this thread, which are both well-written and thoroughly detailed.
Read Rudy_Manchego's Review
Read WillHar270's Review
I’m attempting not to overlap too much with those reviews unless it’s necessary to convey my thoughts without veering into confusion. If you want some concrete details of gameplay or overall construction of The Last of Us Part II, those prior entries are likely a better starting point.

But… if you’ve read reviews about the game before and want a fresh take on it, or if you’re like me and enjoy re-living a game you’ve played through the eyes and thoughts of another person, then read on.

————

The Conundrum of TLoU2 - Why is reviewing this so hard?

—“We are imperfect beings, and thus we make ourselves imperfect in her eyes.”

The difficulty in reviewing this game lies not in trying to solidify judgement on how good it is, as I can clearly state […spoiler alert] the game for me is a masterpiece. The hard part of giving this review is in the expressing these impressions in a way that truly conveys the impact the game had on me, and more difficultly, all the while doing it without spoilers. I also don’t want to be too redundant with a lot of the comments I’ve shared on the game’s yonder thread.

So this review will be a little different. And I think that’s fine because this is an older game. I’ll briefly comment on the virtues of the game and some of its history, but the real meat of the review will be my own observations and telling the impact the game has had on me, personally. And I’ll touch on what the game means to the industry at large. And you’ll get a slightly hamstrung version because I’ll have to speak in generalities so as to avoid spoilers.

So without further ado —

The Technical Quality - How does it look?

—“When you’re lost in the darkness, look for light.”

The game is gorgeous. Jaw-dropping at times. And it runs smoothly without bugs or shortcomings. The only downside from a technical standpoint is the long initial load times. But after the initial boot, there aren’t any more loads during gameplay.

I played on PS5 with the latest patch, and was able to take advantage of the 60fps, but even without that, it’s just a phenomenal achievement. I think this aspect of the game is indisputable, so I won’t dwell on it.

The Gameplay - How does it play?

—“Only through fear do we find our true strength.”

The original The Last of Us was a hallmark game, but one common complaint was the gameplay and combat to some was boring. The heavy emphasis on survival, stealth, and mundane puzzles seemed to get in the way of the epic tale of Joel and Ellie’s traversal across the post-apocalyptic U.S. Those who wanted a little more action in their games should be pleased to know Part II has raised the stakes on action combat and more intricate gameplay mechanics. The game feels familiar, but most definitely expands on the first.

Combat encounters are now more diverse. There is still plenty of emphasis on stealth, but there is also more cover shooting, by virtue of a lot of combat being versus human enemies this time around. There is even the occasional arena with both human and infected enemies together, so strategizing them to kill each other can be done on occasion. There is much more environmental complexity to battlefields and often a combat scenario can be approached in many different ways and with many different weapons. Much more variety this time around.

Recharted - Hello, have we met before?

—“If somehow the Lord gave me a second chance… I’d do it all over again.”

And this brings me to one persevering observation: It’s pretty clear that this game has the DNA of Uncharted all over it.

First of all, sometimes combat feels like Drake has made a visit to the apocalypse. Some set pieces have the classic room full of waist high cover and ammo scattered around the area. Many times I felt like I was playing a juiced up version of Uncharted during these episodes.

Secondly, it seems clear to me that Lost Legacy was a stopgap between what ND wanted to try for TLoU2, with the emphasis on more open areas of exploration; the small hubs of Lost Legacy feel like the testing grounds for areas like downtown Seattle. Both games also experimented with playing as alternate protagonists, leaving Nate and Joel behind, to focus on side characters of the respective series.

Third of all, I do know through reading Druckmann’s interviews that there are several sequences in TLoU2 that are ripped straight from the cutting room floor of Uncharted 4. Specifically, the snowball fight and playing fetch with the dog — both were sequences cut from Uncharted 4. So clearly there was a lot of cross-pollination going on between the two franchises.

And finally, the elephant in the room is the nagging feeling that the Naughty Dog team is responding to narrative criticisms of Uncharted. Repeatedly during my playthrough I kept thinking that this game is the developer’s counter strike to the “ludonarrative dissonance” complaint about Nathan Drake’s escapades. Yes, Nate — the lovable mass murderer who jokes around and goofily shrugs off his high jinks as he systematically executes hundreds of nameless NPCs with reckless abandon. And yes, all in the pursuit of a little treasure. In response, TLoU2 attempts to have every death mean something. In the course of killing NPCs in their adventures, Joel and Ellie are to have consequences and answer for what seemed to be trivial killings they’ve done, or rather, that the player has done during the time playing as the protagonists. An obvious repeated attempt was made for almost every slain NPC to have an identity, a name, and be valued by someone.

Clearly this was the endeavor. Whether Neil Druckmann and Co. were purposely reacting with a game design to hush the critics of Uncharted’s famous dissonance or whether it just seems coincidental that the game took this heavy emphasis, I’m not certain.

————

The Purpose of a Game - But is it fun?

—“May your survival be long. May your death be swift.”

If you ask the average gamer why they participate in this hobby, a large majority will likely say something about it being fun. TLoU2 turned that concept on its ear.

In the months leading up to TLoU2’s release, Druckmann famously made the statement that a game didn’t have to be “fun” to be “engaging.” He said the forthcoming TLoU2 would be an uncomfortable experience, but a worthwhile one. Before having this paradigm shift, Naughty Dog had questionnaires for early focus testers for TLoU2 which asked about how “fun” certain sections were and responses were confounding. They eventually decided to completely remove the word “fun” from their analytics.

Some of the problem is that “fun” is difficult to quantify. When psychologists have tried to empirically define “fun” we end up with a smorgasbord of ideas. One I like by Marc LeBlanc breaks down gaming “fun” as relating to one of eight basic principles: sensory pleasure, fantasy, narrative, challenge, fellowship, discovery, expression, and submission. As a roadmap you can see how each of those granular aspects of enjoyment breeds a different genre of gaming.

The problem with focusing on “fun” as the only method of creating a players experience is well defined by Dustin DiTommaso who says “Fun is too diluted of a concept. It doesn’t distinguish the unique psychological experience of gameplay that leads to sustained engagement.” I think I agree with this statement and TLoU2 is a prime example of this principle.

And to be clear, I would respond that TLoU2 certainly feels fun at times. But the fun aspects of puzzling out encounters, exploring beautiful wastelands, and role playing as a fictional character are really secondary. The primary impact of the game is much more.

An Emotional Rollercoaster - How does it make you feel?

—“When you’re lost in the darkness, look for light.”

I wrote on an early post while playing the game that I was amazed how many emotions the game elicits. As soon as you feel a certain way about a situation or a character, the game subverts those emotions and makes you feel differently. Some players don’t like that manipulation and will push back against the design choices, but I chose to embrace them, or at least try to. Notably, I think this is part of LeBlanc’s idea of “submission” in the sense that enjoyment can be had it just “going along for the ride” even if it’s not what you would normally want to do. Other games have tried to have uncomfortable aspects, but usually they are shrouded in some morality choice system whereby taking the “evil route” will give you a new experience. In TLoU2 however, there’s no choice involved (unless you choose to turn off the game) and you’ll be dragged through the muck of horrible decisions made by characters which you’ll be forced to participate in.

Usually I’m not a fan of forced morality (or amorality), or of agitational manipulation for some “greater goal.” And I understand how some players would feel TLoU2 tries to preach or demean player bias. However, I honestly felt like the game accomplished it’s goal of making me question life choices.

When a Game Is More Than a Game - How did it affect me?

—“I don’t think I can ever forgive you for that, but I’d like to try”

When I look back on my favorite games, they all have one thing in common — they made me feel something. Some raw emotion or carnal sensation. And even better — hopefully the game has me come away from it looking at the world in a different way.

The life lessons from TLoU2 are not anything novel or earth-shattering. It’s a story of suffering and violence begetting violence… A story teaching to not prejudge another until you’ve walked a mile in their shoes… and that holding a grudge only harms the bearer of the animosity… and that redemption comes from learning from one’s mistakes… and that righteousness is in the eye of the beholder… Etc, etc, etc…

Honestly, these are lessons that I feel our world is in dire need of. And simply reading about them has little impact. I would propose that to play a game and glean from it something life altering is much more effectual than hearing or reading a sermon.

With TLoU2, like so many things in life, you get out of it what you put into it. Some will come away bleak, discouraged, or melancholy. However, in the end, I found hope. Sure, I felt the pain, the anguish of so much death and destruction. But in the horror of humanity’s darkest sides, I saw possibilities. I saw deliverance. Perhaps it’s the eternal optimist in me, but I think I came out on the other side a better person.

And I think that’s where I have finally come to peace with this gut-wrenching tale. It’s a bonafide gaming masterpiece, yes. But it’s sometimes more. It’s a bold and daring plunge into the human psyche. It won’t resonate with everyone, and it certainly needs to be approached in the right mindset. But I couldn’t help but come away keenly impressed with what I experienced. I reckon it will be a long time until I have another gaming experience that makes me ponder life as much as this one did.

And yet, in some ways I liked the first game better. And in many ways I hesitate to universally recommend this game. Nevertheless, like it’s predecessor, it struck a note with me that will resonate for years to come.

——————————

9 fungal spores out of 10

@Th3solution Absolutely beautiful review,Sol. Couldn't disagree with you more in terms of the story (the game is an incredible technical achievement, there's no doubt about that) but you've sure got a way with words. Outstanding.

@LN78 Thanks, buddy. It’s very kind of you to say. And I can completely respect the dissenting opinion. It’s why I chose to focus on the purely subjective and emotional aspects of the game because I really doubt that my personal experience was the prevailing reaction to it. I’m glad you enjoyed the read. 😄

@Th3solution Absolutely fantastic write-up! You definitely touch on the design of the game a bit in your piece, but I enjoyed the more intentionally subjective analysis of the game's success at both being an entertainment product and a piece of art (a discussion that often does, yes, get muddled by the insistence on games needing to be "fun"). I do agree that 'fun' is too limiting a term to apply as a universal standard for any sort of media. Many great films and works of literature make their mark by inflicting some degree of emotional and/or intellectual discomfort on the person engaging with it for artistic reasons, and there's no reason for video games to be any different in that regard. In fact, many horror games have done just that over the years. When I was curled up in a ball at night playing Silent Hill on the PS1 for short bursts as a kid, it's hard to say the moment-to-moment of it was "fun." Nevertheless, it stands out as one of my favorite games of all time.

I've noticed in the popular backlash to TLoU Part II an insistence on not having one's perspectives or values attached to the original story questioned. People really seemed offended that these characters they'd grown emotionally attached to would be harmed in any serious way, and especially that the game forced them to consider the situation from the perspectives of the people who hurt them. More often than not, when people would insist the game had a "bad story," my perception was that this claim was used as a cover to ease discomfort with the intentionally provocative and distressing subject matter of the game.

It's a shame, really, because video games are easily the best possible medium through which to make people consider the perspectives of others and to grapple with the baggage that comes along with violence. It's a very different thing to watch a person on-screen do a thing, and to actually have your character do a thing yourself. There's a sense of agency attached to our actions as players when we're emotionally invested in what's happening, and it seems like this game makes use of that to force players out of their comfort zones.

The contrast you draw between the casual, consequence-free mass murder of Uncharted and the way violence is treated in this game (as a violation upon a living person with a life and a sense of internal subjectivity) is fascinating to me. It does make me wonder if this approach is a one-off thing associated with a game designed to challenge the player emotionally, or if Naughty Dog is becoming uncomfortable with the dehumanizing portrayals of people in action media in general.

I actually didn't realize how much of Uncharted had bled over into TLoU Part II, so I appreciate the informative discussion on that subject.

As mentioned, you did a bang-up job with this piece. Really enjoyed reading it.

@Ralizah Thanks a bunch! Both for the accolades, as well as for your thoughts. You articulate some excellent points. Despite many valid criticisms of the game, unfortunately some of the more vocal and early responses to it (like the review bombing) seemed like knee-jerk reactions to shattering players preconceived notions of the franchise. And of course politics had to get involved as well. It’s too bad, because blind prejudice regrettably muddied the waters for plenty of legitimate complaints about the game. I fully acknowledge that many who dislike the game have very fair reasons for feeling that way, and many of the game’s weaknesses I can’t disagree with.

It opens up a wider discussion about who the “owner” of an intellectual property actually is — the fanbase, or the creator? I would argue both. Without the creator, the product doesn’t exist. Without the fanbase, the piece of art exists in a vacuum. It’s like the tree falling in the woods and no one is there to hear it. Does it make a sound? There is no sound without a listener.

The development team at ND certainly offended large masses of the fanbase with their artistic vision, no doubt. I suspect they have alienated some fans against ever partaking in their games again. But plenty of players responded favorably as well, so I think the game deserves a place at the table.

What will be interesting to see is if The Last of Us Part III is ever made, and if so, does ND double-down on challenging players with deconstructing their world. Maybe we’ll know sooner rather than later if Factions 2 ever gets released. 😄

@Th3solution another great review sol… always a very balanced and considered perspective, which I appreciate a great deal.

Personally, I’m still shook by this game. I played through it twice in 4 very intense days and had to take a wee break from gaming afterwards to just let it settle. I get why it isn’t for everyone and why others are left conflicted… but for me as someone who has been very vocal on how little a priority I place on a games narrative, it’s the most important game narrative that I’ve experienced thus far.

@Th3solution Excellent review! I’ve been doing a lot of thinking on this game again thanks to your insights and some renewed discussion around it.

I’m glad you touched on the uncomfortable nature of killing in the game, as I think this was a huge success for ND. There are emergent moments that still haunt me from my experience. I can see how this could be argued as mean spirited or a wholly unnecessary lesson for the average human, however these moments successfully snapped me out of the ‘kill zone’ that so many AAA games revolve around and had me genuinely thinking twice about the trigger I just pulled, something I rarely do in games.

See, I firmly believe that Druckmann was targeting gamers, gaming culture and even ND’s own fan base with many convicting messages in this game. Looping back to a line from Part I, Tess exclaims, “We’re ***** people, Joel. It’s been that way for a long time.”

This fact has been lost through years of these characters being put on pedestals, exalted and celebrated for all the wrong reasons. Instead of indulging the worst parts of gaming culture, Druckmann answered with a sequel that honours the material.

We are all capable of the worst. We are all broken. It’s us, not the world. This fact is embodied by Ellie and her descent in a brilliant irony. She is immune to the virus, which has contributed to so much destruction in the world, yet she is not immune to her own human nature. It’s easy to think that a cure would fix the world but we all know that’s not true. Only by exercising compassion and understanding for each other as equally broken humans, can we begin to heal. It’s the only antidote to the cyclical poison that is revenge.

Anyway, I’m rambling again 😬 As we’ve already discussed, I do still feel that the narrative itself, and the way in which ND chose to tell it, becomes a bit unwieldy, but thematically it’s a home run. I believe the best art provokes the spirit, and in that, TLoUpII is one heck of an achievement. Thanks again for the fantastic write up!

@colonelkilgore @Jimmer-jammer
Hey guys, thanks for reading. I appreciate the feedback and the past and present discourse on the game which so clearly moved a lot of players.

And Jimmer some of that subtext you extracted about the real apocalyptic disease being the human condition and it’s moral frailties and corruption is a point that I hadn’t thought of in that light. I really like that. Fantastic stuff.

It’s so true that gaming (and other entertainment media) create these heroes and superhuman personalities, but in the end we all put our pants on one leg at a time and we all have weaknesses.

I’m glad my review didn’t feel like a waste of time for you to read. I enjoyed writing it.

@Jimmer-jammer @colonelkilgore @Th3solution Is it weird that I didn't think the game offered any of this deep insight into the darkest recesses of the human condition that you guys are talking about? That I didn't think it was in any way brave, meaningful or profound? Is there something wrong with me because I thought the whole affair was laughably melodramatic, superficial and overly sombre to the point of self parody? For me, it was like struggling through an excessively long and pretentious post-apocalyptic soap opera whilst listening to one of the lesser albums by The Cure. I hated it.

@LN78 nah it’s not weird mate, different things resonate with different people.

@LN78 Oh, like the colonel says, it’s not strange at all. I always go back to my personal example of The Witcher 3. For the life of me I couldn’t see what all the praise was about. The supposed excellent story was lost on me. At least you actually finished TLoU2 whereas I have yet to make it past the opening dozen or so hours of W3. Geralt came across as a dull and overacted fantasy cliche with a bad case of laryngitis. I haven’t ruled out the possibility of giving the game another go, seeing as I have that menacing feeling you described of bearing a discordant experience from everyone else. Fortunately there’s a free PS5 upgrade on the way which will give me an excuse to revisit it.

Anyways, it’s all good. For me there’s an important factor of my mindset and mood at the time of playing a game which tends to sway things. It sounds like your feelings toward TLoU2 are probably independent from that, but I think sometimes my enjoyment (or lack thereof) with a game is highly dependent on my disposition and stage and of life I’m in. Honestly, that’s part of why I waited so long to play TLoU2, since many times I looked at it and thought, “Oof, I don’t think I can take that right now.”

Either way, I can completely appreciate your viewpoint.

@LN78 @Th3solution @colonelkilgore I've said for years I found TLoU1 to be a boring, trope-ridden mess of a game, and people love that game for its story elements.

Different strokes for different folks.

@Ralizah @Th3solution @colonelkilgore "Some people can read 'War and Peace' and come away thinking it’s a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe."

@LN78 A good friend of mine can go on at great length about the brilliant cultural nuances and sheer genius of the film Sucker Punch. I can very much relate to how you’re feeling right now 😂

@Jimmer-jammer Your friend may well be in need of professional medical assistance because that's one of the worst movies I've ever seen.😉 .

@LN78 couldn’t agree more

@Ralizah what you talkin’ about Willis!?!? 😉

@colonelkilgore Wow, a Different Strokes pun. 😂 Didn’t expect to ever see a reference like that again.

@LN78 @Jimmer-jammer And double wow, Sucker Punch. That movie is objectively tripe by any measurement. There’s definitely more cultural nuance on the chewing gum wrapper. 😂

@Th3solution man that show left an indelible mark on my psyche… if I could’ve got Diff’rent Strokes, The Fall Guy and The A-Team on a continuous loop at the age of 5 I would’ve been in heaven!