Topic: User Impressions/Reviews Thread

Hopefully I will @Ralizah! I seem to share quite a few of your views regarding games so I'm... well... Hopeful I'll take a similar shine to it 😁

The soundtrack for DOOM 64 and the way you describe it (Not to mention the actual link you provided) reminds me of what I thought of Legacy Of Kain: Soul Reaver's soundtrack

Not terribly great to listen to by itself, but wonderful for setting the mood & atmosphere. Just Soul Reaver's is not as unnerving as DOOM 64's 😅

I assume the next review from you will probably be FFVII Remake no? That'll certainly be an interesting piece to read through!

It's good to hear you've been enjoying DOOM 64 more as well @RogerRoger... The praise from yourself is only making me more eager to try it!

Also are my eyes playing tricks on me or did you have a different Spider-Man gif avatar earlier to this current one?

@Foxy-Goddess-Scotchy Honestly, my gameplay habits are so erratic that I never really know what I'll be finishing at any given time.

I am dying to get my hands on a copy of FFVII Remake, though. Tuesday can't come soon enough.

@RogerRoger Yeah, the new levels are pretty difficult. Especially on the highest difficulty setting. Clearly designed for people who had already tackled the main campaign.

It was a good addition, though, and I can actually beat the final boss there without abusing the stun-locking properties of the super shotgun.

My Experience with Fallen Order and Dead Cells: When is a Metroidvania Not Like a Metroidvania?

It’s been a long time since I wrote a game review. Probably because it’s been a long time since I actually completed any games.

I finished Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order a short while ago and I did post some basic thoughts, but nothing extensive. And I most recently finished (well I beat the final boss anyways) Dead Cells. So I thought I’d do something a little different and drop a combo review that focuses on just a few elements of these two games. This slightly different approach might be more interesting since both games have been around a while and plenty of reviews and impression pieces have already been shared.

Acknowledgment of My Bias
Now, I’ve not been shy about saying that Metroidvanias are amongst my least favorite genres in video gaming, right behind sports games, online centric first person shooters, puzzle games, and 2D-platformers. But I really feel like there is so much that a gamer gains by branching out of one’s comfort zone, such that I constantly try to expose myself to a good variety.

My previous attempts at playing Metroidvanias have included: Guacamelee!, Strider, Muramasa Rebirth, and Castlevania Symphony of the Night, among others. None of these was I able to complete. I grew weary of each one and abandoned them after a few hours of gameplay. I’ve always considered it lazy game design to make players go back and retread the same levels or set pieces again and again rather than develop new areas to explore. I’ve often found myself lost and confused as to how to progress in some of these games because of the cryptic nature that they design the maps.

I had resigned myself to the thought that I just wasn’t cut out for Metroidvanias. And that’s ok. We don’t have to all like the same things. Time and time again I’d read glowing reviews of Metroidvania style games and see them included on top 10 lists and recommendations. But I just couldn’t ever see the allure.

Little did I know that I had been slowly desensitized to this style of gameplay through the genre’s basic recipe being trickled into some modern AAA games that I loved — Batman Arkham Asylum, Tomb Raider reboot trilogy, and Bloodborne, to name just a few that have at least in some rudimentary way, conceptually followed the Metroidvania style and methods of gradual map unlocking and backtracking after finding keys or tools or developing new abilities. Although I haven’t played it yet, God of War I hear is another game to fall victim to these gameplay elements. Still, the Metroidvania style of map unlocking is pretty lightly applied in most of these modern action-adventure games, such that it usually doesn’t bridle the experience. Also, the expansive nature of a well-rendered 3D world does make going back to previous areas to unlock additions to the map a more entertaining proposition than revisiting the same flat and static background screens in a 2D version of the genre.

Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order

So to be honest, I mainly played Jedi: Fallen Order because I’m a big Star Wars fan. I was attracted to the setting, the story, and the combat. The Metroidvania map was an undesirable part to be simply tolerated since it was yoked to the larger more desirable experience. Having had a decent enough time with the aforementioned 3D Metroidvania-lite games, I felt I could stomach the inclusion in Fallen Order.

So, as I played through CaI’s adventure, I quickly became enamored with the sharp visuals, addictive combat, and interesting Star Wars based story and characters. As I explored the terrain of each world, I flinched at each door I couldn’t enter, or gap I couldn’t jump, knowing that not only would I need to fight my way back here later in the game, but also that I’d also not only need to remember to come back to this spot, but also remember how to even get here.

Fortunately, Fallen Order attempts to rectify these issues with a pretty detailed map available through your adorable mechanical companion BD-1; although its holomaps are a multi-layered spiderweb of tunnels and platforms that are pretty hard to actually make sense of. Nevertheless, the best part of Respawn’s map design in Fallen Order is the clear marking in green, yellow, or red to indicate if a passage way was open, available now, or still closed based on your current loadout and skill set. This I appreciated very much. Opening up shortcuts also made returning to areas a little less mundane.

I will say that due to the Souls-like combat and leveling, repeatedly going through some areas over and over was not as inefficient as in other MV games because at least I was getting practice and gathering experience points in the process.

A couple times though I looked at the map to find that a previously red marked doorway was now green because I gained a new ability, but it was in some corner of the map that I just know would take me 45 minutes of battling through a bunch of enemies again, running a high risk of dying, and probably getting lost and so I just decided to skip it.

Nevertheless, I found Fallen Order on the whole to be a really great experience (about 7.8/10), but despite the Metroidvania elements, not because of them. (The technical glitches also hold it back, but that’s a whole other discussion). The aforementioned solid combat, storytelling, world building, and visuals really carried me through it. Here’s hoping the sequel either limits the backtracking or makes some sort of intra-map fast travel system possible.

Dead Cells

Now Dead Cells. What a pleasant surprise this was. I’ve mentioned on another thread my feelings on the addictive combat, ingenius level-up mechanics, and surprising depth of gameplay for a 2D side scrolling game. The maps here are more traditional 2D Metroidvania (well, kind of), but one of the nice parts of its approach is the relatively manageable size of each map. With the lack of enemy respawn, one can clear out a map and search every nook and cranny in about 15 minutes. The fast transport system is fantastic to zip from one part of the map to another and always seem to be conveniently located at a branch point so you can jump straight back after you complete one branching limb of the dungeon and need to go back to explore an alternate route.

Retreading the same levels over and over is necessary after you die, since the Dead Cells gameplay loop’s claim to fame is the permadeath which requires you make the entire run through to the end boss on one life. Some elements of your leveling up and your new weapon blueprints can be permanently carried over, so it basically feels similar to a Soulsborne-type of grinding through early areas repeatedly to gain experience so you can go further the next time.
Furthermore, the requirement of revisiting the same levels over and over is made less redundant by randomization of the map’s layout each time you return. Basic enemy types and basic structure of each map level has certain returning themes and set-up, but it is a fresh approach everytime. The randomization of the weapons you are given access to also makes each run feel different and like a new experience.

So somehow, the Metroidvania elements didn’t bother me here either. Motion Twin did an amazing job to make revisiting these levels over and over still fun and original each time. Interestingly, I think I would rate Dead Cells equally well, as a solid 7.8/10.

Summary:
So here we have two games that I would highly recommend, even though they contain Metroidvania elements, something I don’t usually like. Each of the games evolves these elements in unique ways to make it flow better for the player. Whether it be clear map marking and shortcuts, addictive combat and meaningful grinding, or randomization of map elements when they have to be retread, kudos to the developers for making the style more approachable and fun for gamers like me to dabble in a genre we wouldn’t normally play.

@Th3solution Interesting post. I'll confess that, despite the praise it receives, I've ignored Dead Cells for basically the opposite reason: while I enjoy great Metroidvanian platformers like Metroid Zero, Hollow Knight, and Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, the Souls-esque and rougelike elements of this have scared me off of it. I've enjoyed some games with those elements, of course, but, in general, I hate the idea of one-life runs, randomization of levels, playing the same game over and over again with the hope that I'll get a lucky run and be able to actually beat it, etc. As to Souls games, I don't appreciate obscurantist game design, moody environments where everyone seems to speak in riddles, a lack of clear narrative, etc. Like you with Fallen Order, I enjoyed Hollow Knight is spite of the Souls influences.

I will admit that I've grown a bit tired of most games with Metroidvanian level design, however. Mainly due to the way indie games and later portable Castlevania entries abused the design philosophy until I found myself playing what felt like endless games composed of randomly slapped together hallways and caves. I still enjoy the Monster Boy/Shantae style of game design, however, which combines dungeons with an overworld that features backtracking and unlockable routes/secrets. You still get the thrill of discovery and going back to unlock previously accessible areas, but you also have more intentionally designed environments with unique themes, challenges, enemies, etc.

@Ralizah Thanks and yes, I really see an amazing amalgamation of genres in today’s games. These two games are prime examples of that. Very few large games aren’t influenced by their forebears and developers are getting good at creating patchwork quilts of a bunch of different genres into one game.
As for Dead Cells and it’s Roguelike and Souls inspired death penalties with their potential to lose progress if you die before reaching a level up point to spend your cells (or souls, or blood echoes, or skill points...), well, it’s definitely not for everyone. But the difficulty is not really near a Dark Souls game. The narrative is pretty light, and it has an inkling of personality to make it charming. You never really feel like your spinning your wheels and not making progress, even if you do die and lose a bunch of cells. I was surprised how much I liked it. I probably will keep returning back every now and again for more u lockable secrets and to do the increased difficulty runs, daily challenges, etc. My backlog beckons though, so I can’t linger with it too long.

@Th3solution Just play God of War already!

@Thrillho Haha, it’s on the list.

@Th3solution It’s an utter steal as it’s a PlayStation Hits game already.

I completely get what you mean about the Metroidvania issues for those game types though. Guacamelee did it well giving you coloured blocks that needed a specific ability to get through and had that colour on the map. One of the few frustrations with Hollow Knight was having to keep a note on my phone for roadblocks I encountered but not knowing what ability I’d need to get through so I’d have something like “funny shadow wall to east of bench in area X”.

Glad you enjoyed Dead Cells in the end. The one run was enough for me too. How many of the routes did you come across?

@Thrillho I’m not sure exactly how many routes, probably about 3-4, but I stagnated on any route that went through The Forgotten Sepulcher. That stupid place ate my lunch every time so I avoided that route mostly. I know there was still one boss I lacked ever seeing and one rune I haven’t obtained.

I never really got into using shields, always preferred the how or a whip along with daggers or a broadsword. But honestly, most of my kills were using the cleaver saws, bombs, or the sinew slicer. So I ended up defeating the final boss with cleavers, ice bombs, ice bow, and the firebrand actually. I didn’t even have a traditional melee weapon.

@RogerRoger Thanks! It was unplanned until I noticed that I’d gone from one Metroidvania straight to another and decided that I better try to explain to myself why in the world I would do a thing like that 😅.

I’m trying to decide from what I know about you whether you’d like Dead Cells. I think so. Mainly because it’s quite different and has a gameplay loop that can really fit with a variety of play styles. There is no difficulty slider though, and so the early couple hours can be a little frustrating, but the same could be said of just about every game when you first start it, and honestly I don’t think it’s any harder than Fallen Order on Jedi Master difficulty.

Which of these titles would you guys want me to write a review for next?

The Order 1886
The Outer Worlds
Final Fantasy 7 Remake

@RogerRoger I was lucky enough to receive my copy on the 3rd but I feel for anyone who hasn't received their copy.

All I can say is that it is worth the wait and is for me one of the best PS4 games.

I've got 62 hours played across one whole normal playthrough and around half a hard playthrough.

@DonJorginho is that the review?

@Th3solution so Dead Cells sounds a lot like Rogue Legacy from the boss review. I too dislike metroivanias, maybe it's because we play games in small bursts - you forget within a small time frame what you were doing and why. What each part of the map means and completely forget about an ability from 4 nights ago. Just throwing that out there. Rogue likes are different in that respect as forgetting what's happening can be an advantage as you restart every time!

@themcnoisy Not at all aha, I will write one even larger than my Death Stranding review I suspect as I have a lot to say.

@themcnoisy Oh yeah, that’s a good point. I am prone for gaming in random bursts, with gaps between. I’m not sure why I never made that connection. Sounds like I’d like Rogue Legacy then!

@DonJorginho 62 hours already? You've really laid into your copy. Glad you're happy with the game. It took awhile for me to obtain my copy, but I'm finally able to play it, and, so far, I also think it was worth the wait.

@Ralizah @DonJorginho I think I'm on 25 hours and I'm on the end of chapter 9. Who said this would not be a long enough experience to warrant a full price release? It has been worth every penny for me so far.

@DonJorginho looking forward to it Don.

I'm holding off on ff7 remake, I've got FF 12 revamp, God of War and Deus Ex in my immediate backlog and Puyo Tetris, Dreams plat and RoundGaurd plat in my current cycle. So no point right now. Maybe your review could changey mind!

@themcnoisy I'll certainly try my best! I can say it really does feel like God Of War 2018 goes Anime (which is a very good thing!)

@JohnnyShoulder Man I've been blown away by the sheer amount of content, aside from the odd weird sidequest it's all felt well worth my time too.

I just gotta say, the last 3 chapters are absolutely amazing. They have made the Shinra Building thousands of times better than the OG in every way.