@RogerRoger Nice review. Considering it was designed with HD platforms in mind, it's a bit weird that the cutscenes would be low-res. I understand when it's something like a PS1 JRPG being remastered on modern consoles, but these should have been designed for viewing in full HD from the start.
I'm not surprised you had a bad time with the controls if you were controlling a 3D platformer with a keyboard. Especially one as fast and unpolished as a 3D Sonic game.
In general, you mention a sort of "trial-and-error" element to the gameplay and weird design choices bringing gameplay momentum to a halt, which taps in a bit to why I've never gotten on with Sonic's games: design-wise, they seem to always be a sort of uneasy medium between speed and precision platforming, and, more often than not, I don't think Sega finds that balance. It's good to hear they're integrating some interesting objectives into the different gameplay styles, though, like 2D stealth gameplay segments.
Those music tracks you posted are mostly pretty decent. Sea Bottom Segue, in particular, is quite gorgeous and atmospheric. Sounds Sonic-y, but also evocative. I like it.
Also:
"Given how much Mario has unashamedly stolen from Sonic over the years, however, I think it's about time the tables were turned."
???
I've played almost every Mario game out there and a handful of 2D/3D Sonic ones, and I'm struggling to think of any real design similarities between them. What have Mario games borrowed from Sonic?
@RR529 Good piece! Glad to see you also enjoyed TOK. I agree that the devs seem to be getting a better grasp on how to make these games satisfying without relying on RPG mechanics. And yeah, the dungeons and some environments also reminded me of The Legend of Zelda games. It's almost impossible not to think of The Wind Waker when the open sea sailing segments arrive.
And yeah, I agree that it's a solid B-tier exclusive for the system, and easily one of the best games to come out of Nintendo this year.
Currently Playing: Fields of Mistria (PC); Cookie Clicker (PC); Metaphor: ReFantazio (PC); Overboard! (PC)
Thanks! Given it was 2013 (well, 2014 by the time it hit PC) I think the cutscenes are 1080p and I'm just too late to the game, because I'm pushing 4K. The in-game graphics are gorgeous!
Ah, that makes more sense. Well, just one more reason I'll not be "upgrading" my display any time soon. Everything looks good in 1080p.
Anyway, I'm playing an old game right now where the cutscenes legitimately look blurry on my monitor. Thus my assumption.
I'd politely take issue with calling Sonic games "unpolished" (only one of his 3D outings was rushed to release; all others have been significantly more playable at launch than most modern games) and Lost World is technically sound, with zero bugs or glitches throughout. As I said, I just think keyboard controls are possible, but not preferential and heck, the game warned me as much. Its physics and feel make sense within their own environment, to the point where, had I used a controller (and gotten over my muscle memory), I think I could've started to ace some of the earlier levels, at least. There are certainly plenty of players who have, and they make it look real good.
Well, some 3D Sonic releases, like Rise of Lyric and Sonic 06, have been pretty buggy, but I wasn't saying the games are buggy in general. I was referring to how the platforming, controls, and level design feel in general to me when I play a 3D Sonic game. In Sonic's 2D adventures, the controls are very tight, and he's satisfying to move around. I haven't had that same experience in 3D Sonic games I've played. I also think Sega sometimes struggles with the level design in their 3D outings. Although I've also not played any of the Wii entries, Unleashed, or Forces, so I can't speak to those.
It has been a while, though. Maybe I'll give Sonic Forces a shot, since it's free on PS+ anyway.
I think I've mentioned this before, but the level design in Super Mario Odyssey is heavily inspired by various Sonic games, most notably the Sonic Adventure series, Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Colours. There are also reports that Nintendo knew of Sonic games in development, mostly the spin-offs and novelty games, and would rush Mario-branded versions to be "first" (although I'd take them with a grain of salt, because petty fans can and will make up any old rubbish).
Frankly, 3D Mario games are technically flawless standard-bearers for the 3D platformer genre that receive nearly universal acclaim when they're released. They're about the last games in the world I'd ever say were 'rushed' during development. And certainly not to compete with Sega's divisive 3D Sonic output. Many of which, remember, happened to release on Nintendo consoles anyway.
So, yes, I'd say "petty fans making up any old rubbish" is probably your culprit.
Out of interest, though, what about the level design would you say is Sonic-inspired in Mario Odyssey?
@Ralizah@RogerRoger I did find New Donk City very 3D Sonic. I loved Odyssey of course but I did find it amusing to see elements of Sonic bleeding into Mario after Lost World being the other way round. Sonic Adventure 2 is the pinnacle of the entire series though, perfect mix of cringe, jank, great(?) soundtrack and replay value.
A round of applause to all of those who have done reviews over the last few pages as I've been catching up with them over the last day or so (I normally visit the site on my phone but like to read those pieces on my laptop).
A particular shoutout to the Origami King reviews as it's a game that looks great but one I will certainly never play..
Unleashed (the full-fat version, not the Wii version), Colours and Forces get progressively better, in that order, since Unleashed was the first game to use the bespoke Hedgehog Engine for its daylight stages. Everything that followed just refined the formula.
Well, that seals it, then. I'll give Forces a try and see what I think. Thanks!
Well, I did specifically say that such accusations were levelled at the "spin-off and novelty" games (something about Mario Party racing to beat Sonic Shuffle to market, maybe?) because you're right, nobody could never accuse a mainline Mario game of being rushed. It's usually in such overlooked undergrowth that people like to hide such fabrications, however, and I'm certainly no flag-waiver when it comes to the old console war of the early 90s. I just know what I like (and perhaps listened a little too closely to some attendees at a Sonic convention I went to in my youth).
Yeah, I misread your post there. Apologies. I'm not sure how someone would determine that, but if someone with knowledge about development timetables for various Sonic and Mario spinoff games was to come forward and discuss this, it might be interesting.
There's also New Donk City (which shares traits with Station Square from Sonic Adventure, Soleanna from Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) and Empire City from Sonic Unleashed, not least of which are its realistic humanoid NPCs) and the T-Rex, which Sonic tangled with in Sonic & the Secret Rings. The concept of using Cappy to transform Mario into various objects and animals is also similar to the Wisps, which were introduced in Sonic Colours (a game deliberately altered by Nintendo during its development to make it a "better fit" as a Wii exclusive.
I know my first thought when I saw New Donk City was to think of Sonic Adventure, both because of the heavily urban environment and because of the realistic humans who don't mesh well with the Mario artstyle at all.
Thinking back... I do recall you talking about how Steam Gardens looked eerily similar to a Sonic environment when we talked about Odyssey!
I am curious about Nintendo "[altering Sonic Colors] during its development to make it a 'better fit' as a Wii exclusive," though. Was Nintendo involved with funding and/or development of the Wii Sonic games?
I actually think that's the best of the "modern" sonic games. It plays quite differently to the others and as you said it wears its influence on its sleeve which is no bad thing.
As well as Mario galaxy, the 2d stages take a lot stylistically from Donkey Kong Country Returns for the wii which is one of my favourite games.
I did enjoy Sonic adventure and adventure 2 (first game I had on the GameCube!) and I also had colours, generations and Forces but the ones I most enjoyed were the 2D games. Sonic 3 + Knuckles is one of my favourite games along with DKCR! Of course I love sonic 1&2 but I also loved sonic Advance and I enjoyed rush and even sonic 4 and I thought mania was excellent. (Sorry that was a bit of a rambling paragraph, I meant to say that I loved some sonic games and then ended up giving a shout out to most sonic games 🤦🏻♂️)
But yeah, sonic lost world was a breath of fresh air for me and (I know it's on PC and there is a 3ds version) I actually think it's one of the better Wii U exclusives. Maybe not a system seller but if you have a Wii U then this is a must have for the collection!
Oh yeah and I watched sonic boom on Netflix too and it was so unexpectedly funny that I actually loved it! Especially this part:
@RogerRoger well I think we must have have similar tastes on a few different things! I do seem to remember there being some free dlc in the Wii U version too, I'm sure one was Yoshi themed, one might have been Zelda themed but don't quote me on that and I think there was a Nights into dreams themed one.
There was this wicked flash based sonic game on either newgrounds or something similar back in the day too, I used to play it in IT lessons at school. I'm pretty sure it was just sonic Advance but they added extra characters like shadow into it. I definitely didn't waste my time because IT GCSE back then was a 2 year course in Microsoft office which would have been a waste of my time 🤦🏻♂️. Except maybe excel, I wish I could do a few more things in Excel but I spent most excel lessons going to that alien landscape Easter egg it used to have. But I was so glad 🙄 to learn Microsoft word and the now defunct Publisher and Front Page haha
Boom Knuckles is a favourite, at first I was like wtf but he became that endearing loveable oath character and I couldn't get enough of him!
Have you played star wars episode 1 racer by any chance? I've been playing the remaster on Switch the last couple of days and I'm really enjoying it. I was thinking of doing a write up to spark discussion as I can't see any threads on it but I don't think I'd have the expected criteria when writing a review.
@RogerRoger ahh wicked I will look and give it a read (I don't follow this thread as much as some others) and reply with some belated thoughts instead. The first comparison I made was to racer revenge though which I only had a short go on but found the controls unwieldy but this game has tight controls which make it really enjoyable!
@RogerRoger not at all! I wasn't that keen on doing a full blown review just wanted to trade some thoughts. Anyway after just clicking back through this thread using "find in page" (android's version of ctrl-F), while the games menu plays duel of the fates in the background which made this task way more epic than it had any right to be...well anyway after that I found your review!
I think I'm coming at this game from some similar places and some different places. For example, I didn't have an N64 at the time but I was also not playing it with expectations from rave reviews and and a positive experience with racer revenge.
I mainly bought it based on a previous positive experience of another N64 switch (and all other major gaming consoles) port of Turok. That game was brilliant, and despite owning a couple n64s now, I've never really been able to get into any of the games on the original hardware. It's always been remakes such as ocarina of time 3D or Mario 64 DS that have allowed me to enjoy those amazing games.
The remastered port of Turok however, blew me away. I never knew that behind the fog and blurry filters, lay a beautiful game. The textures are low resolution but they still look stunning when displayed in full HD without the N64 holding it back. So as you can imagine, I was keen for more N64 games to get ported as is but with the benefit of modern hardware to show us the the full breadth of the game. As of now, I believe there have been 4 (on consoles), Turok, Turok 2, Doom 64 and Star Wars Episode 1: Racer.
The former three were ported by night dive studios (I think) whereas star wars wasn't. Still though, I think the game looks great. I actually love the different tracks and I was a bit iffy initially when I revisited new tracks in the same areas but there are some where you end up in places where the geography and geology is so different that it's actually quite interesting to see. One area had a bit of track in a lava cave which wasn't even hinted at on the first go round. Now as I struggle to dodge the fire spewing geisers on Tatooine part 2, I come to my main gripe with the game.
Which is the upgrade system, where your upgraded parts disappear. A quick Google (unfortunately far too late in the game for me to do anything) actually tells me that your parts get damaged, so I've been spending that oh so precious limited currency on upgrades I've already bought because I couldn't work out why my speed stat was so low. Obviously and unfortunately this wasn't explained. I feel like I'm too close to the end now to put in a cheat to get some more credits so I will suffer through I think!
I found the controls tight but confusing at first. The boost button didn't do anything until I randomly pressed forward and a boost meter replaced my speedometer and all of a sudden I actually need to do this every race to win. But that's ok, because it's part of the fun. Working out where to boost, where to air break and where to turn reminds me of a combination of F-zero and Crash team racing. I'm probably putting more effort into it than I should be but I do enjoy the reflex aspect of it.
Another thing that brings me back to Turok, in a pleasant way, is the sound effects. I guess because I wasn't expecting movie accurate sounds, I actually ended up enjoying the recognition of the N64s sound effect set. There are some lightning/electricity effects that sound exactly the same as they did in Turok!
The only thing I would add to this game is online. I have a friend who is a big star wars fan who I went to see the 3D rerelease of phantom menace with who now lives in another country. Remember that ambitious plan to rerelease all the film's in 3D that started and ended with Episode 1? Anyway, Nintendolife's review opined that the game being unbalanced negates any prospect of an online mode being fair. I don't care about fair! It would just be awesome to link up with a friend online and play some star wars podracer! I probably wouldn't play with strangers anyway and I doubt me and my friend are going to hold it against eachother if somebody uses the best pod in the game, but oh well! By the way, me and my mate both love The Phantom Menace!
Anyway, that's probably about it. I found the game really fun, having had not much luck playing either racer revenge or the N64 original in the past. The upgrade makes it playable for someone like me who doesn't have much nostalgia for the N64 as a whole and I've ended up getting really into it!
Also the 3 in the "3, 2, 1..." countdown looks suspiciously like the Monster Energy drink logo, or maybe the logo looks like the Tatooinian 3. Another funny thing I noticed is the font in the menus makes the word podracing look like pooracing because Ds and Os look so similar!
Edit: well that turned into a bit of a review, I'll give the game 8/10 for completions sake 😂
Edit 2: I meant to add, in terms of the graphics at least, they look really good but the draw distance isn't as good as similar ports which means you do have to remember where some tight turns are because they will just appear in front of you!
INSIDE is a short game. I finished it in about a week. But though short, INSIDE tells a small yet gripping story without a single line from any of its characters.
You start off the game in a forest, hiding from some men in the area and working your way towards a city. While at first it is unclear why you are hiding from these people or why they will sic dogs on you and shoot you with darts if you are spotted, when you reach the city you see that anybody who is not trying to kill you is a mindless Husk obeying orders seemingly programmed into their heads. I don’t want to say more for fear of spoiling what little story there is, so on to the rest of the game.
INSIDE consists of short stages that are simple puzzles, small action or stealth sequences, and some minor platforming. Each stage somehow manages to feel distinguished from the rest and even near the end of the game new concepts are still being introduced to the gameplay. You solve the puzzles by either moving an object to a specific place so that you may reach another area, or by using a mind control device to control some Husks in the area. Though this sounds rather simple, INSIDE uses these two mechanics (along with some others) to make some quite interesting yet surprisingly logical stages. No stage is ever too hard to solve, so you will rarely get that stuck-feeling we all despise in puzzle games.
The game also does a great job making you feel tense at times and uncomfortable at others. You may be chased by a pack of dogs at one point, or be forced to pretend you are a Husk as you are watched by a camera. INSIDE has minimal music (the soundtrack is only forty minutes long, and mostly ambient at that) but what music it does have particularly enhances the atmosphere or adds even more tension to an already high-strung scene. I genuinely can’t find cons for this game. With an ending that made me question my actions throughout the entire experience, INSIDE is definitely a game worth experiencing.
That is, if you feel the game’s explicit content is small enough. Now for the mature content review. This game is violent. Like really violent. You can DIE in this game, from being mauled by dogs to ruthlessly being stabbed through the neck to being drowned. You can find body parts and dead bodies in some sections of the game, and at one point you swim through a bunch of body parts with what looks like nails driven into them suspended in water.
There are no voice lines in INSIDE, so swearing is not an issue. There are no drugs or alcohol in the game either (although sometimes you can die by people with guns shooting you with darts, but that doesn’t really count). The sexual content is a matter of uncertainty. The siren-like creature that attempts to drown you appears to be nude, but at the same time there are absolutely no details (not even faces) on any of the characters in INSIDE, so you could simply pretend that it’s wearing a jumpsuit or something like that. In a later portion of the game you can control a bunch of Husks that appear to be in their underclothes, but again there are no details and the game does not encourage your imagination (uuh they’re wearing jumpsuits with protective pads!).
If you feel that this (kind-of) mature content is outweighed by how much of a masterpiece this game is, I would highly recommend that you give it a go.
Rating: 4/5
Seeing as this is my first review, and comments/recommendations would be greatly appreciated!
It took hours, but I managed to create a directory of the reviews posted on here so far. It was a damn shame how much good writing was getting lost in pages and pages of new content, and that discussion about the Star Wars game earlier got me thinking that some of the people putting effort into composing prose for this thread might appreciate people being able to go back and look at their previous work.
Anyway, for ease of access, I inserted this list into the very first post of the thread. I'll try to update it semi-regularly, and will (slowly) add direct link support for each piece.
@Trisque Great first review! I've never played this game before, but I've been acutely aware of the developers' previous game, Limbo, for years. It's on my 360, Vita, and PS4, although, for some reason, I've never quite gotten around to playing through more than the first stage or two.
Anyway, INSIDE does sound terrific, and I recall it scoring well when it released as well.
The ultimate recommendation I can give is to keep writing and posting your impressions of games. The only way any of us improve our writing is to just keep practicing, reading, and engaging with others. I've found there's a lot to be learned about my own shortcomings as a writer by reading over the piece submitted by other contributors and then contrasting those with my own submissions.
If you want slightly more nitpicky recommendations... you should probably put a line of extra space between each of your paragraphs. Oh, and while it's not terribly relevant with this particular game, I'd recommend specifying both the system you played it on and how it fared performance-wise.
@Ralizah that directory is really something! I love reading through the reviews on this thread, and I really appreciate you going through the effort to allow easy access to everyone's reviews.
Also, thank you for the recommendations! I was a little nervous posting it but your positive feedback really helps.
@Trisque Hi Nice review - did you like the game overall? What are your thoughts about the ending as I really liked it but I know some people were confused/disappointed (not that it isn't confusing).
Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot
@Ralizah well done, that's actually a really good resource. It was actually the reason I only read this thread sporadically, because there is 52 pages of it, I wouldn't know where to start!
Carrion is an indie horror/action/puzzler game from Devolver Studio where you play as the monster as opposed to fighting against the monster. The game starts simply enough in a 2d environment as you break out of confinement as a red tentacles mass of flesh and start to wreal havoc upon a mysterious facility. The game features pixel art and is approx 3-4 hours to finish end to end, possibly more if you look for all collectables.
I've had my eye on this game since the announcment at Devolver Digital in at their E3 'show' in 2019 and it took prominence in their 2020 review with it sharing the virtual stage with Phil Spencer. The art and concept looked interesting so I took a punt on Gamepass.
It is sort of hard to completely describe the core mechanics of the game in it being one style. As the titular Carrion, you explore the areas and do light puzzle solving to get to new areas. It also has a Metroidvania style upgrade path whereby you acquire new abilities as the game continues. These can then be used to open up new areas or solve puzzles to get to new places and continue the game. One, for example, allows you to grow bigger by absorbing (eating) humans and this size gives you more strength to open certain blockages in the level. Or you can get a limited invisibility option. However, I wouldn't call this a Metroidvania in the truest sense as often your new skills are needed immediately in front of you. There are some points when you'll need to return to areas but these are limited.
Puzzles are often about what upgrades you need to proceed. The main thrust of the puzzles are tied to your size/form. You can deposit or acquite Biomass to become smaller or bigger. Each of these allows use of different skills - so for example, to stealth you may need to be smaller to get through a certain area or you may need to swap part way through an area. Combat is variable - you can try and swing in and grab and toss people around or you can try and stealth or use different abilities. Sometimes your combat style is up to you and sometimes it is forced based on the form you need to be in.
So how did I feel about the game? Firstly, movement in this game feels amazing. The beast uses tentacles to sieze on to walls and move across the environment really fast so that you can swing and slither around easily and it feels good. You can use the controls to also grab enemies or environmental and swing around. The feeling of bursting in a room, grabbing people in one go and flinging them across the room really does make you feel like an unstoppable force. Also the game looks great and the sound design works really well. The human screams are rather realistic (if that floats your boat you weirdo!).
I did have issues with it. The main one is that there is no map. Which makes sense but the areas are similar looking in places and when you do need to revisit where you have been it took me ages to work out where I needed to go. When you have been to an area, there is no respawn so I probably spent an hour of this game all told just oozing through empty screens trying to find new areas. However since you only free explore areas a few times, there is no repetition to remember where you have been or to remember areas that you couldn't get to.
Then there is the difficulty in combat which didn't feel consistent. The movement feels great but it can be inexact. Enemies start to vary up so some can be grabbed, some have shields you can't get through and some are drones etc. that have different ways to approach. However often if you are lucky you can swing through and just demolish the area. Then you may try the same tactic with the same foes and get killed almost instantly. This may be because the game wants you to try different tactics but if 1 out of 3 solutions is to go through and cause a bloodbath (which feels great when it works) that was always the route I tried first.
There is limited story but it does provide a little context as to what the creature is trying to do and how it got there though this is limited. That said, it feels like a horror short story in that sense - it doesn't need too much story to maintain the atmosphere. The length is about right so it doesn't outstay its welcome.
Carrion is a fun little play and I would recommend if you can get it. It is unqiue and original but has a few niggling flaws that might ruin some of your experience. Patch in a map though and I think this game would do a lot better.
Now I may be an idiot, but there's one thing I am not sir, and that sir, is an idiot
@Rudy_Manchego Nice review! I heard about the game ages ago and then it slipped my mind completely. From your experience, would you call it a "hidden gem," or would it lean closer to only "hidden not-quite gem?"
In response to your question about my review, I most definitely overall enjoyed my experience with INSIDE. Though there were a few stages that I became stuck on, it was usually just me not thinking rather than the game being cryptic. As for the ending, I though it was well constructed. It definitely surprised me! While the ending is slightly confusing, I feel that it's meant to be analyzed --- everyone may take away something different from it. Personally, I thought that the ending was supposed to make you question why the boy was attempting to get to the Huddle. Was he under some form of mind-control, like the Husks you find along the way, and if so, are you (the player) the one mind-controlling him? I may come back to the game to experience the second ending.
@Ralizah, thanks for going through the trouble of creating a directory. It's really useful & cool.
Reading some of the recent reviews reminded me of Inside. I remember it looked interesting when it was first revealed at I believe an Xbox event, but I've never got around to buying it.
Currently Playing:
Switch - Blade Strangers
PS4 - Kingdom Hearts III, Tetris Effect (VR)
@RogerRoger I thought there was a remake coming out, but I seem to remember there being some confusion as to whether it was a separate thing to this remastered port.
I think I only gave it an 8 because it was just fun, which is not something I say a lot about games! Normally they are just enjoyable or have a good story. I know it sounds weird but I do feel like there's a difference between a good game and a fun game.
I hope Jake Lloyd is getting some royalties from this re release though! The guy deserves it
I'm probably Gona try out racer revenge soonish, hopefully Ive laid the groundwork for myself to be able to play that game!
@RogerRoger yep will do! I Will give you a shout if I play any notable star wars game to be honest as I know you will have probably played it/have something to say about it!
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