The significance of Sony’s stance on used games is spiralling by the day. While the platform holder has categorically stated that the PlayStation 4 will support pre-owned content, the comments made by the likes of Worldwide Studios president Shuhei Yoshida seem a bit vague in the wake of last week’s Xbox One gate. But just how complex is the issue, and what can the Japanese manufacturer do to appease both publishers and its loyal fans?
The storm that’s surrounded Microsoft over the past few days is partially due to poor messaging. Even at the time of writing, the manufacturer has yet to clarify its position on used games. As far as we understand, the company will allow consumers to trade content into pre-determined stores, with those outlets being forced to pay an activation fee to the game’s publisher and the Redmond-based firm itself. This pre-owned ‘tax’ will essentially allow the organisation to control the price of second hand content.
Of course, it also comes with a unique set of questions. Will you be able to share games with your friends, for example? Originally, the Xbox maker said that you will – but your buddies will have to login to your personal account if they want to play the game, otherwise they’ll be prompted to purchase an unlock code. In response to these reports – many of which stem from the company's own vice president Phil Harrison – Microsoft has said that its policies aren’t decided yet, making it increasingly difficult to make any sense of the situation.
But while this is very much the Redmond-based manufacturer’s own public relations inferno to douse, it would be naive to assume that Sony is merely looking down on the furore from the heavens. The platform holder’s silence is not necessarily indicative of a greater narrative, but we’d be shocked if there wasn’t more to the saga than is currently hitting the headlines. And for that very reason, the Japanese giant has some challenging decisions to make over the coming weeks.
Speaking on the latest episode of the Bonus Round, connected industry insider Geoff Keighley revealed that the PlayStation maker may not be quite the knight in shining armour that some gamers are painting the company to be. “Based on some of the things that I'm hearing [...] I can't see publishers allowing one system to do one thing and one to do another,” he said, insinuating that the PS4 will boast similar restrictions to the Xbox One.
However, the advantage that Sony has is time – and some gamers are hoping that that will work to their advantage. A select number of NeoGAF users started a Twitter campaign over the weekend targeting high-ranking PlayStation executives, using the hashtags ‘#PS4NoDRM’ and ‘#PS4UsedGames’ to send a message. It snowballed within hours, prompting some company employees to respond, without really saying much of anything at all.
“This is why I love PlayStation fans,” said SCEA’s head of hardware marketing John Koller. “The passion bucket overflows.” Worldwide Studios’ likeable Scott Rohde made a similar comment, while producer Nick Accordino even added that “we hear you”. And we do truly believe that the company’s listening to the complaints, feedback, and comments from its users – our biggest concern is that the firm’s hand is already well and truly tied.
It’s no coincidence that EA announced the abolishment of the online pass mere weeks before this backlash blew up. The voucher code-driven endeavour – which forced gamers to pay extra in order to unlock online components in pre-owned titles – was essentially designed to recuperate some profit from used sales, and it worked, netting the publisher between $10 million and $15 million in its first year of operation. At the time, we pointed out that that’s not profit that the publisher’s going to pass up.
Of course, should the Xbox One employ the aforementioned used game ‘tax’, the company stands to earn the same amount of revenue from second hand sales, if not more – an attribute that even the staunchest optimist would struggle to overlook. And that brings us to the PS4 and Geoff Keighley’s comments – it’s hard to imagine that the industry giant’s going to neglect the fact that it’s earning significant revenue from pre-owned content on one platform, and not on the other.
It’s true that this could be the basis of Microsoft and EA’s touted “special relationship”, but there’s more than one publisher at play here. The likes of Activision, Ubisoft, Namco Bandai, and more are all likely to be wooed by the promise of an extra revenue stream, and that gives the PlayStation maker very little wiggle room. Systems sell on the basis of their software support, and if Sony loses favour with these companies, it could cede a significant advantage to Microsoft’s machine.
The argument against that scenario suggests that by following a pro-consumer approach, the PS4 has the opportunity to cultivate a larger install base – but we’re not convinced. History has proven on countless occasions that gamers are a fickle bunch, and should the Xbox One secure a steady stream of content, many of those outraged will pony up for the platform anyway. Where will that leave Sony?
In light of the latest rumours, it’s not even like the PS4 will even command a greater presence in retail stores. Originally it had been speculated that outlets such as GameStop and GAME – the ones that are likely to be affected the most by pre-owned game restrictions – would favour Sony’s next generation system in their shops should Microsoft block used sales. But based on the scenario described above, these franchises are certain to be clued into the system, meaning that not much is likely to change.
It puts the PlayStation maker between a rock and a hard place. There are numerous advantages to second hand sales, in that they actually increase the adoption of fresh content and encourage consumers to try out new experiences which may help to build brands moving forward. But the reality is that publishers are probably only eyeing their bottom line, and in spite of any arguments that the Japanese giant could make, they may not hold much weight among short sighted firms.
Should Sony buckle under the pressure of its content partners, though, it will find itself subject to a similar backlash to the one that Microsoft’s facing right now. The platform holder can mitigate that damage by sending a clearer, more understandable, and cohesive message than the Xbox maker’s managed, but even the most perfectly prepared statements are not going to gloss over the death of the pre-owned market as we know it.
As previously mentioned, the one advantage that the company’s got on its side is time. By being much coyer than Microsoft at the PS4 unveiling earlier in the year, it’s earned the opportunity to observe the backlash to the Xbox One reveal and reconsider its policies. We’ve no doubt that there have been some hurried meetings between PlayStation executives over the past couple of days, with many more to come in the run-up to E3. And it’s pivotal that it happens upon the right conclusion during these sessions, because this is going to be a key topic at the Los Angeles convention in June. Sadly, we’re just not convinced that there’s a solution that will please all of the parties involved.
Where do you sit on the subject of used games? Do you think that Sony should stand its ground and risk irritating publishers? Are there any other alternatives? Let us know in the comments section below.
Have you added your voice to the ‘#PS4NoDRM’ campaign? (31 votes)
- Yes, I’m a strong advocate of the movement
- I’m still undecided on the whole situation
- No, I don’t really agree with the motion
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Comments 52
Really, really hoping both Sony and Microsoft make their plans clear at E3. The last thing we need is yet more speculation after the event. It's beginning to kill the hype for things we should actually be excited about.
It's tough to say what they'll do, but I honestly hope for the pro-consumer choice, seeing as how I buy almost all my stuff brand new on release day anyways, it could help the people who cannot afford it.
The other issue muddying the water as far as Sony are concerned is that they've already said in no uncertain terms that PS4 won't require an Internet connection; if they do have a system in the works, it can't possibly work in the same way as Microsoft's, so until they provide details it only raises more questions.
Either way, it won't affect me as far as purchasing games goes, as I've always bought new anyway. But it will affect me when it comes to selling games on. I actually agree with developers getting something from the used game market, and I figure the best way to do my bit is to sell my used games directly. So I don't trade in to Game etc. who never pass on any used game profits, I sell via Play or eBay, and that money always goes on new games - at least that way, the industry gets something out of it.
I don't like to buy used games or sell it but this may ruin all my friends and I trade/lend chain.
Another DRM and no used games article without the word "rent" appearing. Are there no game rental companies in the UK/EU?
Nintendo seems to be trying to survive w/o EA, so maybe Sony can as well.
And besides, this is all Sony's fault after all as the PSPgo did away with rentals and trades and lending games to friends by being a DL only system. Apparently nobody learned anything from that disaster though.
I really want to see the game attach rate w/ X1 after 6 months to see if it's worse than Wii.
@rjejr Not that i know ( Eu > Netherlands) Maybe in UK?
Sony can't win this one; No matter what choice they make, someone's getting alienated. I rarely buy used games, so this won't really affect me, but other consumers will be outraged.
Hopefully, they can find some kind of middle ground. Otherwise, this could end badly for them.
@rjejr @Sanquine Gaming rentals used to be huge back in the days of the PS1 in the UK. Since then, it's something that's died out quite considerably. Absolutely nowhere near as big as it is in the US.
@rjejr @Sanquine @ShogunRok I use LoveFilm to rent games in the UK. You're right, though, it's another important layer to the conversation. I always thought that rental agencies had to buy "special" licenses in order to lease games legally, so perhaps "unlocked" games could be purchased by these firms in order to not shut out these businesses.
It's such a rubbish situation all around, though. As @TheRealBatman points out, I truly believe that everyone loses, whatever the decisions made.
@ShogunRok game rental in the US is huge Gamefly has almost 7 shipping centers now across the states, and I actually have a 3 game plan so I can let my little brother have a game as well. I always lend my games to my little brother and if he likes them and finds a lot of value out of them, I often buy the game so he can have a permanent copy. But I am not spending $60 for a 6 hour long shooter that hes never going to play again.
@ViciousDS I do the same thing - sharing most games with my brother when I'm done with them, and vice versa. If we're no longer be able to do this, it means we'll have to buy a lot of games twice. It's a pretty bad situation.
"Always" online + DRM + region lock will make the XBox One really unpopular on booming markets such as Brazil. Specially if the trade-in options are restricted to specific game stores that don't even exist in those countries. Not to mention that smaller releases often can only be found used on eBay after sometime... the need to purchase a code for an old used game will push these smaller titles to oblivion after new copies become rare, it seems to me. It all seems so wrong in so many levels that I don't even know where to start. Here's to hoping that Sony handles this in the best possible way for us gamers.
@fchinaski I think if all they do is come out and say that its up to the publishers than it shoots everything off their back. I mean honestly I preferred the online code over the DRM crap. I honestly didn't mind getting a used game uber cheap and dropping $10 but now this.....full price, FFS. Sony needs to just let the publisher do what they want with it and then not even have it on their first party games. Guess who looks like the bad guys now eh.
I still think gamestop stands to gain no benefit from this. Maybe if gamestop was the ONLY place that could activate used games then that would be a clever partnership. But if you can pay the activation fee on your own then all this would be is an extra charge for gamestop digging in to the big moneymaking part of their business. I still see them liking Sony more if they don't mess with used games.
Gamefly is a business that should be very nervous right now. I don't see any reason for publishers and platform holders to play nice with them.
I still think Sony should say no to anti-consumer policies and the customers will respond. Publishers be damned. Maybe they'll give Microsoft extra content or something but they'll end up with an anti-consumer PR mess on their hands if they want to play that game.
@Squiggle55 See, I disagree. For the huge amount of stink that this is causing right now, I can still see people stumping up for the Xbox One — even if it is the only system that blocks used games.
I remember when people claimed that they were going to boycott EA Games due to the online pass. It hasn't stopped most of their releases from shooting to the top of the sales charts. This will be EXACTLY the same situation.
@get2sammyb Agree with you about the Xbox One - people are going to rush out and buy it anyway. I saw a story earlier today where Blockbuster are claiming that it's breaking all their previous pre-order records.
I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that developers receiving a portion of used game sales is a good thing. As far as rentals go, they can do what movies have done for years, rental companies have to by rental copies at a higher price movie rentals are typically about 3x the price. so for game fly they pay $180 for the copy they intend to rent out. I dont think used game stores should be entitled to obscene profit from someone else's work. If they could work out a digital trade in program where the proceeds went to the developer I would never go to GameStop again.
@lvnlavitaloca
Don't buy into the sob stories that get fed to you. If there was proof that these used games are killing developers and that any fees from the sales of used games would be going straight to the people who put the hard work into them, I might change my tune a little bit. But the truth is any fee will be going right in to the pocket of some douchebag like Phil Spencer, Jack Tretton or whoever runs EA now.
@Gamer83 true.
@TheRealBatman
Good, they deserve it. You sleep with dogs, you get fleas, and $ony decided to jump straight in with EA and M$. This has been planned out for years behind the scenes by these companies but everybody was too dumb to see it, so in a way we all sort of deserve this as well. EA, M$ and $ony all got bigger than they ever deserved to be.
Won't tons of titles just go off the radar and be lost forever due to this? I myself have bought or imported used games that are otherwise unavailable, which then prompted me to purchase the sequel new. I don't particularly like the network code system thats currently being used on Vita either.
@Gamer83 It does make you wonder if all of these companies have been in collusion, doesn't it? That would be heavily illegal, though, right?
@get2sammyb ha! Like that movie the informant. It is possible that they are in cahoots.
@Gamer83 I wouldn't say that they deserve it, because it seems like they're being forced into this arrangement. I doubt Sony had anything to do with this supposed plan, due to the fact that it alienates gamers - while they're trying to get back on their good side.
As for Microsoft and Sony getting bigger than they deserve to be, I don't agree. Both companies worked hard to reach their respective levels of success. You can't say things like that just because you don't like a certain decision(s).
Sony NEEDS to back the consumer here. It could be HUGE in taking away from Microsoft's user base. Their number #1 priority should be moving consoles. If they can do that then the developers will have no choice but follow.
At worst they can tell butthurt companies to pull a Capcom Ace Attorney and go digital only if they are so scared of used games. Then all the heat is on them and not Sony.
Rock and a hard place unfortunately mandatory online activation is definitely out of the question in my opinion. As in my part of the world allot of machines are not connected to the net.
@8vpiper They've confirmed that the PS4 absolutely won't need to be connected to the Internet, so unless they backtrack, that's definitely out.
@get2sammyb
Well, all kidding and hyperbole aside, the truth is a lot of what I'm saying is just frustration from what I feel is a really, really disappointing situation. I would guess the stuff I'm suggesting is illegal but it's not like there haven't been shady business practices before so who knows. I do want EA and all the people who work there out of this industry though, forever. Let them go work in movies or tv, which are already messed up bad enough.
@TheRealBatman
Personally I believe it's laughable to think $ony was forced into anything. For that matter, M$ wasn't either. EA is the one who has been pushing for stuff like this and whether there were behind the scene dealings or this all just sort of happened, it doesn't matter, the bottomline is both these corporations, who also happen to be big publishers themselves, said to EA 'we love your idea' when they could've just easily gone the Nintendo route and told EA to go jump in a lake. As I posted elsehwere, EA could've taken all its games to PC but there's not a chance they would've sold anywhere close on that one platform to what they would on all the home systems and EA would've been forced to drop it's ridiculous stance or at worst keep going with the ridiculous online passes. M$ doesn't get any slack here and neither does $ony. As far as these two companies not deserving to be where they are, I absolutely stand by what I said. Gamers bought each company's products and helped make them the success they are, now look at what they're pulling, it's beyond crap. And M$ has even gone a step further, I don't know what $ony's plans are for the PS eye, but the way M$ is using Kinect on Xbox One turns the system into a voyeur device for the sick slimeballs that work at that company. I'm guessing that was Phil Spencer's idea.
The used game issue doesn't really bother me so much but I would prefer if things stayed the same. Sony is in a very difficult situation right now and MS has really left them no choice. Please one and get backlash from the other. The only thing I could think of is Sony would have to leave it up to the publishers discretion like it has done with EA. That way it mostly falls on the publishers. Which in turn could make people reluctant to buy a game that enforces that, which could inevitably make publishers drop the fee.
@ajay708
This is exactly how $ony wants people thinking. Its plan is no better than M$, at least M$ is being up front telling gamers its going to f them in the a. $ony is trying to pass the blame, which is crap because no matter how you slice it, $ony's plan only benefits EA and other companies that think the same and I hope their little pr spin and fancy wording isn't enough to absolve them of blame. Take the $ony glasses off and realize what's really going on.
@Gamer83 I rest my case. Its like I said, please one and feel the backlash of the other. Enforce Used game policies and the consumers will hate you, dont do it and the publishers will support another platform that does. Obviously Sony has to consider the implications of both sides, they are a business afterall, and this could be the one major decision that makes or breaks them. No Sony glasses here, Im just a rational thinker, you should try it sometime.
Bending over for a company clearly out to screw the consumer isn't rational thinking.
Back in January I was speccing out a PC to finally make the jump from consoles back to PCs. Then Sony teased their event so I stalled a bit. After I saw it, my excitement was so high I forgot all about PCs and get totally overhyped by my love for Playstation.
Today, I'm sad to announce that ALL that excitement has been totally destroyed and I'm very close to just forgetting about consoles, maybe even gaming, for good... Or at least until these big, greedy SOB publishers go bankrupt and are replaced by companies who don't totally hate and abhor their customers.
E3, all eyes on you.
So do you think it's safe to say Nintendo didn't play along with EA's plan here and that's how we went from unprecedented relationship to publishing no games for the system? And do you really think EA has the balls to do the same thing to Sony as well? They'd be throwing away money. Microsoft fans might still buy the xboxone no matter how Microsoft screws them. But I still say Sony needs to go
the opposite direction. Make EA do the online pass again or whatever if they
want, but don't play this game. Follow Nintendo's lead here. Honestly I don't see many people switching "sides" this gen. Some people may buy the xbox if EA tosses them some exclusive content, but I believe just as many people would choose Sony based on pro-consumer policies like ps+, free online, and not blocking used games. I'm not saying that making this decision would crush Microsoft, bc people will certainly buy it no matter what, but it will help, and it will be a big difference between the systems, and inarguably it will foster much goodwill in the gamer community.
personally, I'd prefer to slightly increase the price of games, that way, it will be mine to do as i please i.e. lend to friends or use on another console and sell without the bs. plus the developers will have a few more pounds to play with.At least that way i will still have full control of my purchases too.
@Squiggle55
Yes it's very safe to say Nintendo is on the side of the consumers in this one. At least all signs point towards that. And it's a big part of the reason why the more I thought about what's going on I decided to scrap plans to get an Xbox One and get the Wii U. Originally plans were to wait another year and get it as a second console but with $ony going down the path of M$ it's very possible I'll buy a Wii U this year, even if there isn't really anything I want for it yet, and just make that the only console I get this gen. It really comes down to what kind of plan $ony outlines at E3. I'd like to give it the benefit of the doubt but every time you give corporate dbags that you usually end up disappointed. I expect an E3 conference more disastrous than 2006. At least for M$ they got all the crap out of the way early, consumers already know the Xbox One will be bending them over, so M$ is free to focus on the games.
Console gaming has few advantages over IOS and used games is one of them. To make this obsolete is to help in demolishing console gaming. Both companies need to smarten up and do so fast before they lose the interest of those on the thresh hold of console and tablet (console obviously better but to some people not as much as you'd think) it's bad enough developers are half making games to cash in on DLC (any smart gamer can see that I.e assassins creed 3) now they want to tax used games!! This is greed and the console could go the way of sega dreamcast leaving console gaming something we explain to our great grand children.
@Squiggle55 well put
@Gamer83 I feel your anger..these companies are greedy and will feel the wrath of intelligent consumers if they keep this up.. My fear is the intelligent consumer is becoming less and less (as they fill their fragile minds with jersey shore and other crap shows spawned by mindless money grubbing brain cell rotting non human scum) but these idiots are what they should fear seeing they only see the price and IOS gaming is so much cheaper and accessible..but game companies won't get it..I remember when I bought a game and got the entire game!! Not having to pay extra for DLC these publishers should be ashamed
@Gamer83 not that I'm against DLC..infact quite the opposite but some of these games have it planned and pre made (again i.e assassins creed 3 (GREEDYy) ect.) skyrim for instance did it properly we got a full game and add ons later bravo Bethesda!!
Wouldn't it just make us give more money to studios so they can have financial freedom enough to create artwork that comes from the heart instead of every game being 100% hack cause the companies can't take risks?!!??!....???
@Gamer83 Dude, please leave if you only post thrash about Sony. They will listen after that gigantic campaign ^^ ( NODRMPS4) I spam yoshida everyday:D
@Sanquine
Ok, first of all I've posted plenty of positive things here, I do most of my gaming on PS branded systems and this is the best PlayStation website on the net so I'm not leaving. The thing is, while I may like the PS brand I'm not a fanboy, if Sony does something that ticks me off I'm not going to hold back. And it's not only Sony I've criticized. Now, this is the second time you've gone after me for dumb reasons, you're allowed to have your opinion, I'm allowed mine, and you need to stop getting butthurt over it, I've been civil to everybody here, never gone after another community member and feel I should get the same treatment. I don't want any trouble but I don't like to be told I'm not allowed to express my views, so I politely request you don't bother me about this again.
@Gamer83 Because you are talking about sony already made the decision. Maybe that was the reason why there was no EA at the Sony press conference? Second time? Im going after you because i dont get the point what you are saying^^ It is oke to give opinion but you are talking if this is already the thruth. You are influencing people to already think about the worst case scenario. ^^
@Gamer83 Maybe im also more loyal sony fan ^^
I am 110% positive that I have ZERO influence over what anybody here thinks. If I really could get others to go along with whatever I say or type do you think I'd be posting on a videogame website at 6 in the morning?
@Gamer83 Oke, I am going to take the advice and don't bother you again. Sorry if i insulted you.
@Sanquine
Appreciated, and if I offended you or anybody else I apologize because that isn't my intent. Like I posted I've had no problems with anybody here and would like to keep it that way. I'll try and tone down some of the 'venom' I post with but there are certain things I feel strongly about and giant corporations playing games and trying to screw consumers is one of them.
Thanks to everyone for the rental discussion.
I think if Gamefly and Redbox were able to have discs that somehow were able to bypass the X1 DRM protocols then somebody would figure out a way to break normal game discs, just like DVD DRM always gets broken. Also, those "Rental" copies would be worth a fortune and everybody would rent their games so they could sell them or trade them after they are done. I'm afraid I don't see how rentals could work.
The only bright side - in a few more years once everything is DL only none of this matters. And the kids won't care b/c they get everything on their tablets and smartphones DL only anyway. When's the last time somebody bought a disc to put into their iPad?
Sony and MS should thank Apple for the trendsetting brainwashing of the next generation of gamers. After this gen of consoles I'm done with gaming anyway.
I wont buy any system that requires a fee to pay used games, so no Xbox purchase here, PS4 wait and see approach in the long run. I'm mainly a retro gamer and only just got to the PS3, so I am aware I may not be representative!
I think people also sometimes tend to forget the selling of used games creates jobs and profits, just not in such a centralised way. Its also good for recycling those mountains of discs out there and creating interest in the industry, as more people get to play more games...
I will buy an occasional used game, but I usually wait until games are on sale for $30 on Amazon. I have tried the Used game market at Gamestop several times, and always get faulty discs. Speaking of Gamestop they now call you at home to solicit business, so I now refuse to deal with them in general. If I do buy a used game it is usually off a fellow gamer/seller on Amazon. Sometimes Best Buy will have some good deals on their website. I have no plans to buy an XBOX One at any point. PS4 maybe one day. Used games can open a person up to a new series they have never played, and some will purchase future games in that series new.
Can someone tell me why Gamestop keeps playing PR for Xbox one? First the CEO said it was "very compelling" and now Gamestop says that their 2013 outlook improved after the xbox one reveal even after the fact that the xbox one announcement caused Gamestop stock to dip. The Xbox One also seems to have been designed to cater to this system for the fee for used games policy and trading in the cloud. Something is up!
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