Microtransactions are extremely controversial in enthusiast gaming communities like Push Square, but Sony’s financials show why they won’t be going away. According to the Japanese giant’s record-breaking report, 29 per cent of PlayStation’s overall revenue was generated by DLC, expansion packs, and, yes, microtransactions. That number’s up 47.1 per cent year-over-year, amounting to a total of $2.45 billion.
To put this into context, the company made more from microtransactions on the PS Store than combined physical and digital software sales. It’s worth noting that the platform holder takes approximately 30 per cent of each transaction made through its storefront, so whether you’re buying FIFA 21 Points or Fortnite V-Bucks, it’s raking in the cash. In terms of revenue, add-on content attracted more than hardware sales, which topped out at $2.29 billion.
This is a fascinating snapshot into Sony’s business, and it really underlines where the industry’s at. In terms of digital purchases (be it subscriptions like PS Plus, downloadable software, or microtransactions), they account for an eye-watering 60 per cent of PlayStation’s overall revenue. That means that less than half of the organisation’s income is rounded out by hardware, physical software, and accessories like PlayStation VR. Mind-boggling stuff.
[source sony.net, via resetera.com]
Comments 68
I think half of that’s mine on my Nephew’s Fortnite accounts 😫🤣
As the great Jarvis Cocker once said, "Duck the morals, does it make any money?" except he didn't say duck.
What is the definition of microtransactions exactly? Because some cheap cosmetics are sold as DLCs. And some transaction that are neither DLC nor season pass are definitely not "micro".
@Rhaoulos In this case, it's anything that's not a "game download" purchased digitally from the PS Store. So it could be a DLC pack, a Season Pass, or virtual currency. Anything that "expands" on a game through a digital purchase.
Does that make sense?
@get2sammyb So MHW Iceborne is a micro-transaction?
"FIFA 21 Points or Fortnite V-Bucks"
I suspect all other microtransaction amounts pale into insignificance compared to the numbers these two behemoths get.
What a waste of money. Still I guess someone likes them.
@Octane Potentially yes, although that's an edge case and we don't have insight into how they'd categorise something like that.
I imagine Horizon: The Frozen Wilds, purchased individually, would be considered an add-on while Horizon: Complete Edition would be considered digital software.
As long as it's not mtx in single player game, I'm okay with that. Some games like genshin impact needs mtx to fund the game since it's a free to play.
@get2sammyb Well, in that case, ''micro-transactions'' are definitely not going away if you include DLC and/or expansions. Those are €20-40 ''micro-transactions'', so they will account for the majority of dollar transactions.
@Octane Yeah but the underlying point here is that complementary purchases for software are making more money for PlayStation than any other part of its business.
So whether it's an expansion pack or Ultimate Team or whatever, those are the revenue drivers for Sony now. (Remember that some of these "microtransaction" purchases can go up to $100!)
As long as the keep giving core gamers fully fledged gaming experiences like God of War, Demon's Souls, TLoU2, Sackboy, Bloodborne etc that are full games on release, they can throw whatever microtransactions they want elsewhere. I love the fact Sony 1st party games are not normally plagued by them, and often come with excellent dlc. Here is hoping it stays that way.
@get2sammyb Thanks for the explanation, it was crystal clear. I just find the "micro" part very confusing and probably a commercial stunt to exploit the many flaws in our brains.
I buy a game and that's it.
Micro transactions are a mugs game aimed at kids and should be outlawed.
Ala Jarvis Cocker, duck buying stuff in game.
I dont mind season pass or dlc as long as its single player dlc season pass.but i never pay for microtransactions.word up son
I just wish there was a law that forced them to give an option to switch them off completely, so you don't see any of them or any content connected to them.
It's also pretty gross that most of that revenue comes from scamming kids in games like Fifa and fostering something way too close to a gambling addiction to my liking. Having worked in casinos in the past I know how it all works and there is pretty much no difference other than these games are offering even less than a casino does as a payout.
This is one of those cases where Jim Sterling is correct, though he’s overly negative about it - the shareholders are the real customers, and we’re the product being sold to the shareholders
Okay I'll admit it, I have spent about £20 on paints, kits and decals for my ships in Elite Dangerous.
Basically they make a lot of money from vulnerable people for virtual outfits.
@get2sammyb the underlying point is a bit weakly justified as it is though. I think even the most avid critic of microtransactions will at least differentiate between:
"microtransactions"
"DLC"
Some of these categories are just a lazy cash grab (particularly in the cases of the "microtransactions" list - I do realise it's a blurred line between categories though, hence the speech marks) whereas others offer something of value, even if a lot of gamers will simply wait for a GOTY edition rather than buy a game at launch and then buy DLC/season passes as they launch. Gamers tend to put up with, and even enjoy DLC as long as the base game is substantive and of a good quality (and the DLC is too), whereas microtransactions are much more reviled, espencially in cases where the base game is just a tedious grind-fest without caving to them.
IMO it'd be much more meaningful to be able to compare revenue from these two categories (although perhaps a bit more precisely than my roughly drawn up list of what falls under each type) - and at the end of the day it might well be that most of the revenue comes from microtransactions rather than DLC, just because for every scrooge who waits for the GOTY edition there might be 5 kids subsidised by their rich parents, more than willing to drop £50 a time on V-Bucks. The point is it's hard to tell that when the most substantive DLC is bundled into the same statistic as the most predatory microtransactions
Also of interest is the note that PS5 is sold at a loss.This all points to a streaming future unfortunately.
@thefourfoldroot consoles have been sold at loss in the beginning of their lifecycle since at least PS2
@Rhaoulos “microtransaction” is a phrase that started with small payments for horse armour in Elder Scrolls: Oblivion and has not been changed despite many not being “micro” anymore.
Look at things like FIFA and GTA where there are currency packs that are twice the price of the original game!
Propose MAXItransactions would be more appropriate!
@thefourfoldroot PS5 sold at a loss and STILL record profits that quarter. Why change anything?
@danlk1ng I would add that one mans trash is another mans treasure.
While I **personally** don’t understand EVER paying for something cosmetic, I seem to be in the minority and I can accept others value these more highly than I do.
Equally there is a huge range of DLC from epic things like Iceborne, Shivering Isles, Blood & Wine, Mooncrash and Dishonored’s brilliant Story DLC and then at the other end of the scale some of the terrible Far Cry stuff that’s been farmed out to junior studios or Asuras Wrath trying to sell the games ending as DLC.
Thanks to those people every game it’s gonna be a mini casino or a live service game and we are getting closer by the year but as soon as that happens I’m out of gaming
@Voltan
Nope. There was a big deal made from remodelled PS3 onwards. Up until this point you were correct however, they always USED to be sold at a loss.
Edit: seems I’m wrong, it was a cumulative non-loss with the PS4. The launch console was indeed sold at a loss, which was reversed when the price of components came down. Ignore me then.
Who is buying this garbage?
Its not that microtransactions need to go entirely, they just need to f*** the hell off in non-free to play games.
After all, weren't we told by thralls of people for several years that it was either microtransactions or a price hike for video games? Well, we finally got the game price hike that was supposedly oh-so-long overdue. So why do we still have MTX, then?
@thefourfoldroot yup to the edit - this is most likely what's going to happen with PS5 as well
Seems a lot of people don't understand what microtransactions are, DLC's/expansions are not microtransactions those are there own category. Microtransactions are smaller in-game items purchased from some kind of in-game store (skins, weapons, xp boosts, RNG casino chests ext.) using purchasable in-game currency (which is the microtransaction currency). I personally think that microtransactions should be no higher then like $2, hence the "micro" part of it, but one can only dream.
It is also not up to Sony whether or not its going away, that is the game developers choice. They are they ones who put microtransactions into the games.
@thefourfoldroot that has always been the case with not just consoles but many products at the start nothing new.
@themightyant I call the macrotransactions. I also call them the plague of modern gaming that started with free to play/pay to win and are now pay to play AND pay to win.
@get2sammyb Yeah I really don't agree with that. Microtransactions are small payments of virtual currency, booster packs and singular cosmetic items. Not damn dlc packs or expansions, hell no.
@GamingVeteran - Sony wont ever get rid of micro transactions. let alone force studios to remove them, as can be seen by the main article they make Sony a huge amount of revenue (for doing absolutely nothing on Sony’s part).
To me, micro transactions are the equivalent of paying for an extra shot of vanilla in my latte, upgrading my fries into a poutine or going back to the dealership to add the cooling seats I didn’t want at the original purchase.
Many people obviously pay for micro transactions and feel like they are getting value for their money and why should that bother me? I can honestly say that I have never purchased one (outside of DLC expansions) and I have never felt like I was missing out or being cheated out of anything. Yet.
Business goes where the money is. We the people determine the market by how we spend our money. The world is much larger than myself, so it reasonable to assume that the market may move outside of my personal comfort zone, and that’s okay.
Businesses are allowed to make money, I see no moral quandary here.
@GamingVeteran
I agree with what you said. The article is confusing. I just wanted to say I love that PS5 pic though. Like I want to lick it.
@danlk1ng You can bet that internally, Sony and game developers know all those numbers you're asking about - they're tracking how much money each category of extra content brings in, and contrasting it with the cost to develop and host each one, too.
But nobody in the industry wants that data public. They don't want to give an advantage to existing or upcoming competitors who could benefit from that knowledge. They don't necessarily want people to realize how much they've spent on cosmetic claptrap that an intern spit out in an hour tinkering with the in-house character editor. And they really don't want regulators coming in to smash their *@$! loot boxes.
But consider the fact that the mobile gaming industry is overwhelmingly driven by microtransactions rather than game sales, and it was estimated to be an $85 billion (US dollars) global industry in 2020. From what I've read, they get most of their revenue from less than 5% of their players (maybe less than 1%) paying for cosmetics and pay-to-win. I've got to believe those metrics carry over to the console space, too - and a few people spending big bucks on their favorite game make the studios a lot more money than the 90%+ of us who complain about excessive microtransactions.
Warning: These thoughts may ramble a bit.
I'm of two minds when trying to grapple with this subject. From a purely capitalist standpoint, there is nothing wrong with trying to make a profit. This is a rational used almost universally these days. But from a gamers standpoint, it's hard not to smell something fowl brewing at the heart of a thing I love.
As primarily a single player game enthusiast, my biggest concerns are when these microtransactions start to chew at the foundations of what makes single player games so much fun to play. When the initial game design is changed to more easily facilitate their implementation, for example.
While from a moral and capitalistic standpoint it may be just peachy, it hurts some fundamental part of 'The Art of the Game'.
Primary examples are releasing a game in a state where it isn't as fun as it could or should be, only to start selling things after the fact in order to bring it up to that level. Or purposefully making leveling a chore in order to sell experience later. (Ubisoft, I'm looking directly at you on this one.) Some secondary examples include holding out some game assets (outfits, weapons, vehicles, etc.) to be sold individually for profit after release.
Now, like I said, this may not violate the spirit of capitalism that so many people want to hold the line for, but it chips away at what makes games beautiful. It's like termites slowly eating away at the walls of an outwardly pristine home.
Sadly, most of the games that just completely blew my mind were all released before the current age of microtransactions. And while I try hard to be an optimist, I fear those days won't be coming back. I still contend that if you make a game that stands on it's own greatness and gave you pride to make, you can make a more than comfortable living from the profits of it's sale alone.
@LordSteev nicely written! If a game is truly developed and released half baked with the intention of essentially completing it post launch with paid micro transactions, then I agree with you 100%. The thing is, and this is just my experience, I haven’t seen or felt that. It’s a hypothetical problem that I haven’t seen manifested or proven.
I personally don’t support micro transactions at all, and agree with your sentiment about them eating away at the art of games, but at the same time, I honestly have never felt forced to pay for them. I’ve never felt like I was getting half a game. I’ve never felt my experience with the game I’m playing is suffering because of “these darn micro transactions!” I just haven’t. I’ve ignored them completely and don’t even know what I’m missing. How can I be upset about that? Especially when people are obviously paying for these things.
I don’t know, it’s a weird topic for me because everything in me wants to be up in arms about it and then reality hits me and I’m just like, “meh?”
@Jimmer-jammer It's an interesting point and I don't know which games you play so would hate to make a generalisation but the games we are playing are affected by micro-transactions, even if we don't actually buy them.
Let's take the last two AC games (possibly 3, I haven't played Origins). Fine games, well made. The main complaint from gamers is the grind and the amount of padding in the game. Fair comment. Then you consider there are literally paid options to skip this grind and you can see that time and money was spent to create grind to generate a need for SOME to pay their way out of it.
I remember Far Cry 5 and there was a particular weapon I wanted because it fit my player style and I think it would have taken me many hours to get the resources to get it OR just buy it for a few £'s. That isn't accidental. That's by design. In Far Cry 3, I got a similar scaled weapon by just playing through the story.
My last comment would also be that if you aren't affected by micro transacitons then you aren't the target market. They are designed to go for the players that are susceptible to this. Fortnite is a great example. Free game that gives playes peer pressure amongst the community to spend more time and money to look better or engage more.
@Jimmer-jammer “I’ve never felt my experience with a game I’m playing is suffering because of “these darn micro transactions!”
Did you play Star Wars Battlefront 2 near launch? A brilliant core game ruined by avarice and predatory microtransactions.
What about any recent EA Sports title? FIFA, Madden, tale your pick. Incomplete games selling you what you used to get for free.
How about the deliberate grind in games like GTA online, Assassins Creed, Avengers or Genshin Impact? That “conveniently” has a paid say to skip it. Hell Ubisoft were blatant enough to not sell theirs until AFTER the review cycle.
All are huge games and deliberately designed to get people to pay more money in one way or another.
—
On the flip side of the argument (nothing is black and white):
@Rudy_Manchego While I broadly agree with all your points it is worth noting that free to play with micro transactions is, for many people, a model they are happy with. Many players play Fortnite, CoD: Warzone, Genshin Impact etc. and don’t spend a penny (or very little compared to game time) and for many whose funds are limited but have time to give this is a boon.
But I agree this is only possible because of the predatory tactics to get “whales” to pay hundreds and often thousands to cover everyone else.
—
@LordSteev Great post! I smiled when I saw Spider-man had sold another 4.3million copies last year, now over 20 million total. A complete game, with lots of fan service and all costumes included that unlocked at a fast rate. No MTX though there was more content through a DLC season pass. Same with God of War. Sony at least is still making games like this
@Rudy_Manchego @themightyant thank you for your balanced reply’s and for providing useful examples.
I should consider myself fortunate that the games I play have been mostly untouched by micro transactions. I haven’t played an Assassins Creed since 3 or a Far Cry since 4. I didn’t play Battlefront at launch nor have I played Avengers. Not trying to claim complete ignorance here, but I just assumed this was well communicated and that people knew what they were signing up for.
For Ubisoft to sneak micro transactions in after the fact is certainly shady, though I have also seen many comments from folks who have said that they completed Valhalla without issue before these were even put into the game.
My stance was based mostly on anecdotal evidence in combination with my limited experience with these transactions. The most recent personal example was CTR. It’s loaded with these things, but again, I’ve completed it and continue to play without feeling the need to purchase them.
On principle, I completely agree with @LordSteev excellent post, as the driving philosophy of micro transactions taints something that should stand on its own. However, I’m also sensitive to other people’s posts who seem to appreciate the option, and obviously there is a market for them.
Thank you all for giving me some more things to chew on, I’m still working out how I feel about it all.
@themightyant Free to play games are an interesting point and I do agree. I know that there are some great models that have worked well. Also, in F2P games, grind is often the main model. I know that a lot of people sing the praises of Warframe for making you want to support the devs rather than pay for basic features. I also agree though, that these games mtx's target those who are susceptible.
@Jimmer-jammer Thanks for the thoughtful response and you make a really valid point. I mean, in perspective, I put 80 hours into AC Odyssey, even with the monetization and enjoyed the game (having spent nothing additional on it). It is just that it felt jarring in game that this was a really good 40 hour game, stretched into a longer 80-100 hour experience for no reason other than to encourage engagement.
When I compare to the excellent Ghost of Tshusima, which had many elements, by playing and exploring you got all the content, cosmetics etc. whereas you can't get that in the AC game without paying or grinding excessively.
I guess they don't make the games bad, per se, but I think they are affecting game design which is detrimental to the end product.
Still it is complicated and as said, I've played games to the end that had these in so maybe I am part of the problem!!
@Jimmer-jammer I think we all are, except maybe @LordSteev maybe
I don't think Microtransactions or DLC are inherently bad, but there are a lot of opportunist implementations and there is a lot of avarice involved. A lot of deliberate game mechanics designed to fuel addictions, needlessly pad out game times and ultimately get people to pay moore.
Though on games like Assassins creed one mans grind is another's enjoyment. There are many fans and critics who hail the 400+ hours they have put in the game. Equally there are others who think it is needlessly padded out with grind, with the aforementioned XP booster to do away with this... for a price.
The trouble for me is that game companies are all too aware of this and yet they deliberately design their games to hook into people base instincts and addictions. This is not OK to me.
@Rudy_Manchego If they really cared about the gamers experience, and knowingly accept that there are different types of gamer with different amounts of time to spare, they COULD add an option into games like Assassins creed separate to difficulty e.g.
How do you like to play?
Instead they make the game needlessly grindy and charge for the pleasure of reducing that.
I realise it's a multi-layered issue and this only touches one side of it, I don't think all content should be free. Some games I'd gladly pay more for additional content. But I mostly do lean towards @LordSteev's viewpoint
@Rudy_Manchego Just to follow up on Free to play. 100% agreed on grind being the model. Warframe is a great example of a core game that is SO much fun and appears to offer so much for free, but once they have their hooks in you a price will be paid in either money or time. The games are deliberately designed to make you login every day and punish you if you don't.
I know first hand. I am currently addicted (there I said it... first step right?) to F2P game Genshin Impact and boy is it a deliberate grind. Very similar to Warframe, in that the underlying gameplay and world are staggeringly good - it's been compared to Breath of the Wild for it's aesthetic, but really the world building and exploration is the most similar brilliant feeling I have had to BoTW, it even does a few things better.
Thankfully I'm not susceptible to paying big money on games but I watch youtube videos of people, not just creators, spending hundreds or even thousands of pounds on it. That's barmy but quite deliberate and predatory.
Anyway may need an intervention to stop playing
Still haven't got round to Ghost of Tsushima because of it.
@themightyant I've really loved the aesthetic of Genshin but I don't really play those games because I struggle with open ended games. I have a strange OCD that I want games to have an end - be it a tournament or story or something. I struggle with some roguelikes because I don't feel I am making progress.
That said, I think the F2P model can yield really good games and I've heard a lot of people really praise Genshin as being a really fun game. I think the issue is the predatory industry and monetization around it to make a select few get the FOMO and spend more than they should.
Normally completely agree with you. I don't get on with roguelikes either or even roguelite's, to a lesser extent, as there is at least SOME incremental progression on each run in the later. (I've been holding off Hades for this reason, despite all the GOTY chatter)
Genshin however really sank it's teeth into me like nothing else. I love the game but loath so much about it at the same time. The gameplay is fantastic, A++. The world, the exploration, the music are all top drawer. Yet the content is drip-fed and deliberately dragged out.
They literally have millions of players jumping to their tune just giving us enough to be satiated while we wait for the next drop. Yet the more you play, and the more characters you get, the more you need to play as resources are tight.
It's a vicious circle and a completionists nightmare, anyone with a hint of that, or addiction should steer well clear. It's 100% designed to grab your time and/or money - it's predatory and calculated.
Yet it's also, in so many ways, one of the best games I've ever played. I know all this yet can't quit. Part of me want's to, part of me really doesn't.
Ah the wonder and horror of the duality of life
@Jimmer-jammer
Sorry I'm so late getting back to this, real life has been encroaching in to my online time this week. I know, horrible problem, but don't send cards, I'm pretty much over it.
I was going to point out AC Odyssey as a prime example of where it's already happening in games that I've played, but @Rudy_Manchego has already beaten me to it.
If you haven't seen it yet, that's great. But it seems to be coming, and probably only a matter of time until you notice it in a future game.
It's ok to be fine with it, but I'm not. They've already foisted so much of this crap on us in the last five years, and everyone rolls over and takes it. Where is the disincentive for them to not keep pushing?
I'm not arguing with you, it's just we feel differently on this subject. As always, I'm able to understand your point of view thanks to your craftsmanship with the word-things.
@themightyant I feel your pain. I have Hades and I can see it is a truly excellent game yet, after yet another run and failure, I feel like my evening was spent getting nowhere.
It's tough to work out how to feel about games like Genshin. They are quality but they thrive on constant engagement. I'd say if you like it and are enjoying it, enjoy and just be aware of the more predatory aspects.
@themightyant
Thanks for the compliment. I agree with you about Sony, they have been able to remain unscathed, almost to a remarkable degree. Throw The Last of Us 2 on that pile, as well. I think one of the things I enjoyed the most about it was that it was a complete, self-contained story with a beginning and an end. Just that simple fact alone made it look like a bright red bird in a black and white photo.
It just scares me that if other studios start making superior money with inferior products, how is Sony not going to follow suit? I really hope they are able to stay true to the quality singleplayer experience they are demonstrating today. Maybe that market is still large enough to keep a few fat fish floating.
@Rudy_Manchego
I agree with you on the surface, that Odyssey was a good game. It had a beautiful world, and even several fine gameplay concepts. I loved having the eagle as a scout, that was inspired. In the end though, I never finished it. After about 80 hours as well, it started to bog for me and just feel like more of the same.
I love huge open-world games. A place I just lose myself in. But you've got to keep it interesting, and keep throwing new experiences and insights to the player as they advance in level.
In my mind, every unique set of armor sold in an online in-game store is a lost opportunity to craft a special quest for it in the game itself. One of the things I love about Bethesda is maybe early in the game, you come across an old text that just mentions or hints at something legendary. You go about playing and forget about it, until another breadcrumb is dropped, like it might even be on this continent!
The lore invested and then maybe the unusual or dangerous quest designed to chase a legendary item makes it way more rewarding to find as a player, and for me, I end up valuing it far more for the rest of the game than if I'd gone to the pause menu and pulled out my credit card.
Just rambling, I don't have any great revelation, but if you made it this far, thanks for reading!
@LordSteev Thankfully Sony's division has record profits this year so they are obviously doing something right. (of course COVID has contributed) But of course they want a larger slice of the pie all companies do.
I found it interesting in their financials that add on content (DLC + MTX) already made MORE revenue than physical and digital game sales combined. This does give me a little hope that they may not feel they need to chase it, they already have it.
Revenue split last 2020 quarter
Regardless I think it's important we constantly remind them when they make games like this that contain all the content and praise it loudly. I do believe the market is large enough, and growing, to support many whales.
@LordSteev Couldn't agree more about a unique armour set being a missed opportunity for a quest line reward. I think of things like the Nightingale armour in Skyrim, rewarded after a long quest line.
It used to be finish the game, or a quest or a specific thing and get the most bad-ass armour we have. Now it's "lets sell it to you!"... and worse, often the armour sets in game are just deliberately poor by comparison to incentivise the purchase.
Sad times.
@Rudy_Manchego "Hades".... "I feel like my evening was spent getting nowhere."
Yes that is my feeling exactly with roguelikes and roguelites. At the end of the day some games, however universally praised, are just not for you.
"It's tough to work out how to feel about games like Genshin."
I AM enjoying it enormously, and it sticks in my brain all throughout the day. But I'm also aware of all the tricks it is pulling, some unhealthy, and can't quite seem to pull away.
If I was to equate it to anything, It reminds me of giving up smoking, I knew I should and part of me wanted to, but I also didn't want to and "couldn't". Addiction it is then!
@themightyant
Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely nothing against paid dlc when it's in the form of, say, a new chapter. New levels, new story, and obvious effort shown on the developers side. I'll pay for that if I love the original game, just as a pacifier to hold me over while I wait for the next in the series.
One thing I think Sony understands better than most publishers is that if you make a really, astonishingly good single player game, you build a fanbase that is loyal to what you've made. Then, if you want to chase some monetary things, you have a large amount of people with goodwill toward you and maybe a bit of a blindspot for what you're trying to do with in-game transactions.
I guess, if something is of high enough quality, I'm willing to pay for it. What irks me is games designed, cynically from the start, with built in drag and a way to pay around it. It's the cynicism of the whole practice that grinds my teeth.
@themightyant
Ha! Nightingale armor is a fantastic example, though if you played like me, by the time you got it you could craft your own that was superior. Still, it felt like a great reward. Even lesser quests like Savior's Hide were really great in how they were presented. You didn't KNOW that's what you were going to get, they surprised you with it. Nice.
I think it was back in Oblivion, I read a history book about a sword, and how it was wielded on the battlefield and what brand of woe it wrought. The book wasn't even about the sword, it was about the battle, and mentioned the sword almost as an afterthought while describing the battle in historical terms. I remember thinking, wow, that sounds like a cool sword. If I had something like that, I could put it to good use against these wraiths. And then, many hours and levels later, another book, leading to a quest, leading to the finding of something that I truly thought was only a legend I'd read about in a history book. That kind of stuff is just hypnotizing to me in open worlds!
@LordSteev I don't misunderstand you, we absolutely see eye to eye on this. I've already sung the praises of good DLC in this thread.
When done right, often taking all the learning of years of development and iterating upon them with a twist, they can be some of the best content in the game.
I think of DLC like Shivering Isles, Blood & Wine, Mooncrash, Iceborne, Left Behind, The Old Hunters, Little Nightmares, and Dishonored’s brilliant Story DLC. All brilliant.
The last is an interesting one and a great guide of how to do it right. It was clearly planned before release but also wasn't cut content. The main Dishonored game felt like a full game and complete story without it, as it should. But the 2 story DLCs actually mixed up the gameplay a little and improved the already good story, giving another layer of interest by showing another angle. It was clever and well written. (Plus playing gruff Michael Madsen was a bonus)
It was similar to how Rogue One improves the original Star Wars with a little more information.
But yes the vast majority is overpriced skins, poor quality, creatively bankrupt DLC farmed out to outside, satellite or junior development teams and the worst of all in-game-*******-currency to sell you things you used to get as part of a complete package. More often than not it is cynically built and priced... and yes that grinds my gears too
@LordSteev I was the same with the Nightingale armour, by that point I had better self made sets (particularly by abusing enchanting) but by that point I was OP anyway and was happy to wear the most badass set.
Re: the sword: Absolutely remember magical moments like this in games. Little bits of subtle foreshadowing that unexpectedly come good. Morrowind, Oblivion even Skyrim all had this buried in the world building and lore. It is wonderful. I hope it's not gone forever.
@themightyant
Agreement. I think sometimes it takes the whole 'making' of the game for all the coders, level designers, artists, etc. to get to know and be comfortable with the engine. I love dlc when a talented team takes what they've mastered from making the original and really lets it soar.
I've never played the dlc on any of the Dishonored games. I keep meaning to, cause I love the originals and could see how they really might be able to stretch their wings with some after-the-fact content. I think I just finished the games and had to delete them to make room for something else, and never went back.
Here I'll condense 2 replies into one post. Abusing enchanting, indeed. By the time I reached Nightingale armour, I was double enchanting everything. I was so godlike at that point, I wasn't even worried about buffs, it was more about carry-weight, lol.
One of my favorite dlc things that anyone has ever done is with Skyrim, being able to make skills legendary and start them over from scratch, while redistributing your perk points. I thought it was brilliant insight by them as to what would keep the game interesting for leveled enthusiasts, and really made the progression loop almost infinite. Can't wait to see what they do with Starfield.
Also, just as an aside, I love Arkane, but I'm worried about deathloop, because the last thing I want to do is play the same level over and over while I try to find the 'trick' to advance. It just isn't a game structure I feel comfortable with, but maybe they'll surprise me.
@LordSteev "I wasn't even worried about buffs, it was more about carry-weight, lol." Hahaha, this literally made me laugh out loud. It's ALWAYS about carry-weight (...but I REALLY need another 10 empty bottles I will never use. Hoarder!)
You really should play the Dishonored DLC. They are exactly what you are talking about when you said "I love dlc when a talented team takes what they've mastered from making the original and really lets it soar." More like mini sequels.
And yes i'm a little worried about Deathloop too. The repetition, (which as discussed with @Rudy_Manchego about Roguelike/lites is not my cup of tea) but also by switching from stealth to gunplay perhaps makes level design less important (their forte). Regardless Dishonored is a series that is great to replay with the acquired knowledge, I trust Arkane to make it work until proven otherwise.
@themightyant
Oh yeah, the intricate grinding gears of their single player levels are something else! That mad scientist's clockwork house level was mindblowing. I really enjoyed sneaking through the environments, using the teleport spells, etc. It gave you time to look around and reflect on what they'd done with the levels, and they were, as you say, the superstars of the whole show. I have all the discs somewhere, I think buried in my storage room. I'll have to go hunting for them, just thinking about Dishonored makes me want to play it.
Yes indeed, carry-weight is King! With the Steed standing stone, everything enchanted with lift, and not skimping on stamina at level up (hey, 5lbs a shot!) I think I got my carry-weight up in the neighborhood of 1,100 lbs. Absolutely mandatory of course, especially when trying to pull full sets of Snow Elf heavy armor up from the depths to display on manikins, lol...
@LordSteev Ha ha don't worry, I read it all! You are spot on with armour sets. I ended up getting what I got in the game and then just upgrading those. In Skyrim (great example), I would do whole quests to get a sword that set people on fire. Then do another quest to get another SLIGHTLY better sword. I ignored all of that in AD:Odyssey because it was never as good as what I could have bought.
@LordSteev Did you play Prey (2017)?
It was nothing to do with the first Prey.
Nothing to do with the Prey 2 (bounty) trailer.
Had a terrible marketing campaign.
Was set up to fail, and it did fail commercially.
But it's an absolutely brilliant game, also by Arkane, with amazing DLC Mooncrash that again puts a real twist on what came before and gives me hope for Deathloop.
@themightyant oh boy, I missed a lot of conversation here. It was a good read! Prey seems like a good place to jump in as I second your assessment of Prey’s brilliance. It was a fantastic experience that I still think a lot about, years after finishing it.
@Jimmer-jammer Ha! I think it's just the 4 (maybe 3, 2, 1) of us rambling on But it's been informative and entertaining.
"Prey’s brilliance. It was a fantastic experience that I still think a lot about, years after finishing it." 100% Agreed. I still think about that game often. Arkane's industry leading wide level design, and open-ended gameplay makes going back a joy. And the world building is first class. Perhaps I'll load it up on PS5 this w/end.
Enjoy your gaming everyone.
@Rudy_Manchego
Man, I love Skyrim. I liked that you had to sacrifice a weapon or armor to learn it's enchantment. Like, should I give this up yet so I can make a better one later? So many great decisions to make all through that game. I love how even though it's a big open world, there's probably 3 or 4 times that much real-estate in hand-crafted underground dungeons, ruins, etc., with quests deep enough to justify it all.
As pretty as Odyssey was, it seemed like mostly surface looks. Not anywhere near as much underground content and superficial and 'samey' light surface quests. In Skyrim, usually when you were going underground, you were going to be there for a while. So many great, individual adventures.
@themightyant
Yes, even the first Prey! (Whacky gravity defying shooter, forgot who made it, lol) But in the one by Arkane, I didn't like it as much as I thought I was going to (as much as the Dishonored titles) for one simple reason. I just didn't care for the dark, translucent enemy design. Sometimes in dark places I couldn't even see what was draining my health. Thought the space station was brilliant though, and I WANTED to like it, but it just didn't click for me as much as all of the Dishonored games did.
@Jimmer-jammer
Welcome back! Some really good takes on this thread, lets wear it out!
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