In case you missed it, there was a bit of a furore a couple of weeks back when two new PS5 releases — A Pllague Tale: Requiem and Gotham Knights — skipped support for 60 frames-per-second on Sony's current-gen system. We're now almost two years into this console generation, and at the very least, an optional 60fps performance mode has become an expectation. As such, both of the aforementioned titles were met with some criticism from PlayStation enthusiasts.
In an attempt to dig a little deeper, we published a poll here on the site, asking our community if they actually cared about being able to play games at 60fps on the PS5. Over 12,000 people voted in that poll, and the overall answer to our query is clear: hardcore PS5 players much prefer 60fps.
A whopping 72 per cent of users told us that 60fps should be a priority for all PS5 games. 39 per cent of those people went all-in, saying that all games should be at least 60fps on the console. The other 33 per cent want all PS5 games to have the option of a 60fps mode as standard.
A further 11 per cent said they simply prefer to play games at 60fps, while only 10 per cent reckon 60fps isn't a necessity on PS5. A fraction of the vote (just 3 per cent) are happy with 30fps, and the final 4 per cent said they don't care about frame rates at all.
We honestly didn't expect the results of our poll to be so one-sided, but it's clear that, at least in our hardcore space, players have come to appreciate the benefits of higher frame rates. If console games really do end up prioritising visuals at the expense of 60fps in the future, it may generate a greater backlash than many anticipate — it's difficult to take something away when people have grown accustomed to it.
Comments 87
Well it depends. Console games work on compromise. If it’s 60FPS then something has to give. Options are the way forward more than anything.
At the very least there should be a quality mode and a performance mode. Quality for better graphics but 30 fps, Performance for slightly not as good graphics but 60 fps.
That way everyone wins.
There should be a performance and quality mode options as standard. The reality of it is that the ps5 cant handle 4k@60fps with all the bells and whistles turned up to 11 so there has to be a compromise. Seeing as an awful lot of ps5 games have the option then really sony should insist that everybody is catered for. I'd love 4k@60fps all day long but 30fps is not a deal breaker providing the frame pacing is correct..
60fps wasn't around on Ps1, Ps2 or ps3 and almost non existent on ps4, yet I've enjoyed all those consoles and played so many great games, don't see why that would be any different now.
Until I see such a large leap in graphical fidelity to account for playing at only 30fps, I will continue to default at 60fps games going further. I just have yet to see that leap yet.
@UltimateOtaku91 but isnt this the thing? We all played our ps4 games @30fps and 60fps in rare instances so with the arrival of the ps5 and playing mostly ps4 games again suped up to run in 4k@60fps and having ps5 games have the option for quality or performance modes we have all become expectant (not entitled) and possibly a bit spoilt by 60fps..it is nice though..
@UltimateOtaku91 That's not true at all. There were loads of 60fps PS2 games.
Developers CAN make gorgeous games that run at 60fps. We have proof of that (Horizon Forbidden West, The Last of Us, Ratchet and Clank etc). I mean look at the Dead Space Remake gameplay that has dropped, running at 60fps...absolutely eye-popping. It can be done. I feel like 30fps-only will be isolated incidents and not the norm. Just an unfortunate coincidence that two such games released so close to each other.
It should read "Push Square readers" but obviously that doesn't generate the traffic. At the end of the day the huge casual audience doesn't care about frame rate, they care about characters, story and visuals. And that's always going to sell more to people then how smooth the gameplay is. It's why Digital Foundry said yesterday that a return to 30 FPS was inevitable because developers and publishers will want to push visuals further.
It's easy for all games to be 60fps on a PS5 if you're willing to sacrifice a few bells and whistles in the graphical stakes. Trouble is we've had 30+ years of consoles generations where the number one priority of each new gen has been shinier graphics and more pixels so people have been semi-brainwashed into expecting state of the art visuals at all times. And so often over the years that has come at the expense of framerate.
So let the devs just keep on giving framerate options and stop making this such a big deal. Most people don't actually care. A poll of a couple of thousand very active enthusiasts doesn't represent anything in the grand scheme of things.
@AdamNovice i read that article as well and it was interesting and informative..explained a lot.
Now I'm in the camp of there should be a decent 60fps option on a modern console especially when we talking £70 triple A releases. Although I'll happily admit this wasn't the case throughout the entire PS4 generation and gens before. I was just happy having beautiful HDR on my base PS4
It will be interesting to see if Gotham knights and Plague tales sales are effected by not including a 60fps mode.
@UltimateOtaku91 60FPS absolutely was a thing from PS2 onwards with notable titles on the PS2 such as Gran Turismo 3 and 4, MGS2, Devil May Cry.
The problem being that with the PS3, the number of titles started slowing down and got even worse with PS4.
Heck, even the PS1 had games like tekken, Micro Machines and others.
The game that really made me realise the difference was Nioh on my OG PS4, which lets you chose action (performance) or movie (visuals) mode. After starting with movie mode, I tried action, and never went back. Smooth frames/gameplay is just too damn essential.
Especially in the absence of a performance mode, having a choppy, un-smooth gameplay experience just seems like bad programming, development, production to me at this point --- I tend to bypass such titles.
AAA titles should have a 60 option. they are big budget and the best showcase.
AA/Indie i get 30, but it SHOULD be stable.
@UltimateOtaku91 60FPS has always been a thing. I remember back on the N64 for F Zero X where they made the choice to sacrifice graphical fidelity for the smoother crisper frame rate. 60FPS has been a thing for gamers for decades now.
60fps is more beneficial to games than resolution its as simple as that. These days I play on PC and with my setup I don't have to concern myself with sub 60fps at the moment, at least outside of poorly made games such as Gotham Knights that is.
@solocapers @LiamCroft @pip_muzz wow my mistake, didn't think TV's could handle 60fps back then before hdmi, can't say I've ever played a game that gave me that option, especially during the ps2 era. Although I was aged between 9-15 during that gen so that's not something I would of noticed back then. Was it just an handfull of games?
@UltimateOtaku91 as @pip_muzz says F-Zero was 60fps on the N64 and much more than half the Dreamcast library is 60fps, plus a reasonable amount of PS2 games are. If anything it was the PS3/4 era which normalised 30fps for so many games but there is no reason not to be 60fps on PS5/Series X
Just seen your last comment and CRT's were either 50 or 60hz depending on region so we're 50/60fps by nature
@carlos82 so hz basically means the same as fps? If so then now I just feel stupid.
@UltimateOtaku91 kind of, in terms of refresh rates its literally how many frames it refreshes in a second so it can display up to that fps
With graphics not having a lot of room to improve in big ways anymore, if we are not doing 60fps this gen, what is this gen even for? Lol
I guess we can all talk again after Sony fully commits to and embraces "current gen"...
@UltimateOtaku91 quick google suggests there was 109 PS1 games in total (a few of them were special modes with limited gameplay)
Of the 26 launch PS2 games 21 of them were 60fps. Obviously that proportion dropped massively as the gen went on but its fair to guess atleast 100 in total were 60fps
Stolen from reddit but heres a decent list for PS2 games running at 60fps:
The Devil May Cry games
The Burnout games
The Gran Turismo games+Tourist Trophy
The Maximo games
Shox
The SSX games
Metal Gear Solid 2
Valkyrie Profile 2
Star Ocean
Radiata Stories
The Timesplitters Games
Rygar
The Ratchet & Clank games
The Jak games
The God of War games
The Castlevania games
Ridge Racer V
The Zone of Enders games
Mark of Kri+Sequel
Rez
Legend of Kay
Kya
Dark Cloud
The Baldur’s Gate/Norrath games
The PS3 gen is what really normalised 30FPS sadly.
No no no I want full raytracing, superb lighting and shadows, 4k assets and resolution,ill take a smooth 30fps ,don't see the point of 60fps in anything other than fighting and driving games ,whats the point in owning a 4k TV if you just output your games at 1200-1400p ,I want the full power of the p
Unlike everyone else here, I prefered it when you had one setting, no choice. Devs optomised the game to provide you with what they wanted to deliver, you played it or you didnt. In the past, if 60hz was needed, the game was tuned to provide that.
Its one of the great benefits of consoles that you dont have to fine tune your game, and one of several reasons ive always prefered console gaming to pc gaming.
To be fair, some element of choice is needed now as there are differences in the capabilities of peoples tvs, with 120hz panels allowing 40hz modes and some having vrr, unfortunately some setting choices are needed.
Im old school, i like putting a cartridge in a slot, switching on and just playing, but I guess things move on!
@invictus4000 ah the old how can graphics improve ,this has been said every single gen since sabre wulf,and yet they always improve ,I remember playing staff of karnath on a friends commodore 64 in the 80s and saying the same thing.
Poor Sony. PS5 games sales are gonna tank compared to previous generations with not buying games that aren't 60fps even if they're good. Probably will be the last PlayStation console.
The Gotham Knights situation is really just bad optimization and stupid design choices. Even the most powerful of PC’s is having a hard time with a game that is “less busy” than Arkham Knight graphically. Something isn’t right there.
Plus, forced ray-traced reflections on console doesn’t help one bit for framerate, either.
As far as Plague Tale, I think it’s CPU limited given all the rats. Plus, the developer is still kind of in that AA space despite the brilliance of A Plague Tale. From what I gave seen, it’s a festival for the eyes. I should really download it and check it out myself.
The game is already 1440p on the PS5 and Series X. But given that those games are slower-paced anyways, 30fps isn’t like a gigantic detriment. 60fps would be nice, of course, but I can give a little wiggle room there.
Where 60fps needs to stick around in some capacity is fast-paced titles - no questions asked.
@Titntin pc gaming stresses me out, I have a capable machine ,and i spend more time in the options screens than playing the damn game, with consoles now offering more graphic options now albeit very limited compared to pc, I do spend a ridiculous amount of time in those stupid hdr display screens ,nits, what, eh
@UltimateOtaku91
Actually a surprising number of PS2 titles ran at 60fps.
Metal Gear Solid 2 being one of the most standout 60fps titles for that platform.
Some will... some wont.
A Plague Tale 1080p/60fps is a RTX 3070 for us. Microsoft did not even publish 4K/60fps system requirements on PC.
My PC cant lock it to 4K/60fps maxed out. It is still one of the most amazing piece of Digital Entertainment I have played.
@UltimateOtaku91
A fairly large amount.
To be fair you have to classify them into two different categories. Games that locked to 60fps (like Metal Gear Solid 2 and all of the Ratchet games) and games that had unlocked framerates that hit 60 but had drops, like Onimusha.
Funnily enough despite being the weakest console of its generation, it had the most 60fps titles.
Well, it’s actually that percentage of “hardcore” players who frequent gaming sites.
Also, I’m going to be pedantic, and point out it wasn’t “39% of those” 72% that said this, it was 39% of everyone overall. Might just want to rephrase.
Personally I said I wasn’t too bothered, but I’m an anomaly as I can’t really tell the difference much. Most people seem to be able to.
Whilst in-house first party games with generally optimised engines will try to maintain such options,it gets a bit murkier with 3rd party devs.
Overtime there'll probably be an increasing reliance of whatever equipment to freesync/ Gsync tech that is adapted into Playstation's API's & so if a game engine supports it, it may not be rock solid but it'll at least keep things consistent.
@Fuzzymonkeyfunk Yes, but it‘s impossible to find out the reasons for the sales numbers. In the case of Plague Tale, back then there were much more PS4 and Xbox One systems in customer hands than PS5 and Xbox Series X/S today. And Plague Tale is now refined and not a completely new IP. So it’s apples and oranges.
Plague tale works well with 30fps target. What doesn't work well is fast paced games, majority online games and shooters.
Cinematic slow paced games don't necessarily need to be running at 60fps. However you should be able to sacrifice graphical fidelity for higher ramerate if you wish to do so. It's not that hard to implement two modes...
I’ll take 60fps over a few less birds or flowing hair any day of the week
Here’s looking at you Horizon
Im not one of them, i'll take mostly whatever the studio's vision(for the most part) is as long as it works well. I've played plenty of low framerate games that did. I mostly get anal about 60fps in games I feel demand it. Which is games like DMC for example. 60fps is standard in fighting games for obvious reasons. I want it in racing games too but if your going to try to push visuals/effects to the limit, as long as it's stable as something like Driveclub that came before it then that's fine by me.
It’s the big discernible next gen feature, we want butter smooth not rough as a badgers
I bought my TV with a higher refresh rate because Sony and subsequent studios kept touting 60FPS and even 120FPS modes for their games.
Now if a game runs 30FPS on my new TV, it's jarring, choppy, the games look horrendous and the picture quality suffers as a result anyway. If studios aren't going to put in the effort to optimize their games for current technology, I'm not buying them.
typical white-knights in the comments defending everything no matter what .
Sadly Plague Tale doesn't hold up on the PS5 compared to the other twins so I guess sub 30 is where it's at again. Just like the good ol' PS3 days.
I'd take 60 with a lower res/less shiny over 30 but IF things have to go 30 they need good motion blur and they have to be rock solid 30. No shenanigans.
So if there was always a small but decent amount of games even in the 90s on consoles doing 60fps, then why can't a modern console 25 years later do all games at 60fps in 2022
I‘m happy with 30fps to be honest. I like the more „cinematic“ look and feel, 120fps is a nightmare for me. Way too smooth. Of course there should be a 60fps mode in all games
It's been shown that the game is awful at CPU utilization... And it's not justified.
I remember clearly 4K and 8K logos on my PS5 box, Sony statement "60fps is standard" and huge whirlwind about "must have" that ugly ray tracing (that only make games dark or darker)...
OK... we ended up with 1080p as standard, 30fps (60fps on your own risk) and that ray tracing where game should speed up, because there is no need for loading pitch black textures.
If 30 fps becomes the standard again you best believe I’m selling my PS5 lol
@MTMike87 You must be confused mate. 60hz has been the standard for tvs since 2007. You wouldnt have been able to buy one that wasnt unless it was second hand.
You didnt buy a 60hz telly because ps5 promised 60hz, you bought one because you couldnt buy anything less.
I'm in the 4k club for sure, but.. I have played 60fps on a few games, I usually treat it case by case. Its definitely better when smoother in gameplay, but I notice the 4k difference more. Once your eyes get used to the jank of 30fps, it just comes standard. It's going to and from that's the issue, you notice it way more.
@Talon_Zanarkand I don’t think we will find out but both studios will have goals and expectations for sales numbers. I don’t see why this gen games can’t have performance and quality modes as standard and that keeps everyone happy.
PS5 pro incoming!
@Titntin This is a bit of an exaggeration. Toggling left & right between Graphics mode and Performance mode is hardly "fine tuning". There is NO comparison between this and the limitless graphics optimization options found on PC.
@eagletrippin Well thank you for stating the obvious.
My post was very clear, I prefered zero options and wanted to resist this idea that consoles should have PC like options.
PCs need them as there is no standard pc spec. Consoles shouldnt need them, except for the 120hz and vrr exceptions I mentioned.
Given a standard spec, the developers are best placed to make the decisions to deliver their vision on a console.
At no point was i intending to suggest console games have a suite of options, so my original post must be badly phrased, my bad.
@tallythwack Haha you make a very good point. I remember thinking that with a few games on PS2. Haha!
I guess what I meant is I don't known if we are gonna have SNES > PS1 levels of graphic jumps anymore.
Either way, my point stands. Not having 60fps this gen is kinda unacceptable in my book.
Alt title “most PushSquare poll respondants want 60fps on PS5”.
Let’s not pretend that people visiting this site are representative of the entire cross section of Playstation users. Plus, even here, most people think 60fps is about graphics alone so to them they would rather have dialed back graphics than 60fps. But that’s not always the deal. It could be about physics, level design, or the underlying engine processes (eg UE5). It would be good to help the readership understand that.
Gameplay should be 60fps.
Cut scenes should be 24fps. I really dislike how fake and terrible cut scenes look at 60fps.
So a PS5 pro wouldn't matter if these developers dont want to make their games 60fps.
To me, $60-$100 games should be 60fps no matter what now. In this gen console it is expected now. It does help that Plague Tale was on gamepass so you can let it go, but, not Gotham Knights. You want ppl to pay for day 1 releases at full price, then it better be 60fps.
30FPS dinosaurs are dying out!
I use a PS4 PRO with an old LG 1080p TV, and I always pick performance. Borderlands 3 is a good example of the smoother play and much less camera motion blur if set at performance.
Vice City definitive offers motion blur off, depth of field off, and performance mode. With that I can have a sharp image with silky smooth frames and no blur ruining the image and causing dizziness and or a headache.
Maybe 4K tv is the blame. Imagine if PS5 was still 1080p. Games could still look awesome, have 60fps minimum, high amounts of trees, animals, people, destructible/interactive world, improved ai, and standard options for raytracing, field of view, depth of field, motion blur, and more.
There's an option missing that should be mandatory on ALL these PS5 games. VRR support, so 30fps is in fact 40fps. 40fps despite being less than 60 provides a smoother overall experience but with the graphics at quality at 40fps. Developers are just lazy these days.
@UltimateOtaku91 That is simply not true. There were many games that ran at 60 fps on the PS2, PS3, and PS4. Devil May Cry has ran at a consistent 60 since the first game with only the trash reboot running at 30, and the newest game offering modes to run at 40 with raytracing, 60 with enhanced graphics, and 120fps on PS5, and running at locked 60 FPS on PS4.
Call of Duty games, 60 FPS is standard across the board for CoD games since CoD 4.
60 FPS games were around, and there are many more examples than what I've provided (fighting games in particular usually run at 60) even a lot of old Nintendo games on the SNES ran at 60...
Your opinion on 30 vs 60 is subjective, and I respect that, but 60FPS games on console have been around for 25 odd years.
@tallythwack Most games automatically pick the most ideal settings for you based on your specs, and even if you do have to use the options setting, it shouldn't take longer than a minute. You really have to have some bizarre OCD to make a big fuss out of this.
Reading some of the comments here gives me very dim hopes about the future of gaming.
@UltimateOtaku91 Try it and then go back. For me it's a choppy mess. Unplayable. But to each their own. Also Twisted Metal Black runs at 60 fps and that's PS2.
Was't that long ago gamers were against 60fps because "it isn't nostalgic."
I'm definitely of the crowd that all games should have at least 60 fps...
However I'll still happily play games at 30 fps if needed.
Can't believe we're still having this discussion. It should be standard by now.
I hope to see a future where 60fps is the lowest option.
For me framerate is more important than graphics and 30fps is something I wish for to go away for good.
Options is always nice, but remove the bad options. no-one want their game to be a pretty "slideshow". the option should be between 60fps (fidelity mode) vs 120fps (performance mode)
I can only accept 30fps in like a photo mode or something like that.
It's time to make the jump
Last gen era games at 60fps because you have the massive jump in performance for the new generation of Hardware.
Games are 30fps because Devs are pushing the Limits of the system and require every single one of those 33.3ms in a single frame to calculate all the AI/Physics etc, to render and process a high res image and get it out to your TV. They can dumb/scale down so much to try and offer a 60fps mode - but AI doesn't scale with resolution, physics doesn't scale and lets not forget, 2 frames for every '1' at 30fps, means 2x the amount of AI, Physics, input response. hit detection etc as it all needs to be done for each frame...
So I hope we DO get 30fps that are really pushing the limits of the System. really pushing AI, Physics or whatever they couldn't do before and require every single millisecond they can and couldn't hit 60fps instead of a 'prettier, faster performing versions of 'last' gen games with that level of physics, AI etc.
AI can fill an open world with Life - not just 'Enemies', but all life - not be so static or empty, using only sound to represent birds, insects etc. Physics too, the amount of games with hair or clothing that clips through, feet that clip through terrain, plants that clip through instead of move/deform as you walk through them... All this can be 'improved' and pushed to the 'limit' of hardware that is NOT 'high' end as Consoles are NOT high end hardware - they are built to a Budget, to a relatively 'low' cost.
I'm one of those people who can quite happily play a game at 30fps. As Long as it doesn't dip below (Gotham Knights!) or suffer from bad frame pacing (Final Fantasy 15 was awful!) Or have bad input delay (Tokyo Ghost Wire!) I'm happy.
Just let me choose. What users want is simple.
@SweetSummerShunv maybe I do ,if the settings are there for me to fiddle with,I will fiddle.
@BAMozzy I agree, I'd take shiny shiny graphics over fps ,however I would take some mental AI over shiny shiny anyday.
@tallythwack That's the reason PS3 and PS4 era games were often 30fps - because they were 'designed' to push the limits of the hardware. Then when 'newer' hardware comes out, the extra performance of that hardware enables them to do everything quicker so you get '60fps'.
Take Spider-Man - a game that is CPU intensive - pushed the limits of what the PS4 could do at a consistent 30fps, but the PS5 has much more CPU power, that it can deliver 60fps.
Therefore, I hope we do get games that really push the limits of Console hardware and have to be 'limited' to 30fps - and maybe the 'next' gen will unlock 60fps...
If anything, Plague Tale and Gotham Knights devs should be called out for being incompetent since those games also have performance issues on PC.
As for the "60FPS isn't possible going forward", yeah, I call that *****.
I mean, Nintendo is using AMD's FSR 1.0 in some key titles like Splatoon 3, Switch Sports and Xenoblade Chronicles 3 in order to maintain graphics or stable framerates.
Devs should be able to use tech like to at least deliver 1440p@120FPS on PS5/XSX quite easily since both consoles have RDNA2, which enables FSR 2.0, which in turn has more performance than what Nintendo is using.
It was never about raw power, but rather smart use of tech.
as i've said many times before, graphics have been too much of a focus, 30 fps is almost unplayable. as this late stage in the game, current gen consoles should easily do 60 fps . graphics should never be the focus
@Balie3000 Ghost of tsushima. My favorite example
@CielloArc 100% true. Someone should by them a copy of Ghost of tsushima so they can see how bad they are.
@LiamCroft Agreed. There were loads of PS2 games that achieved 60fps. However the earliest console game I can think of that demonstrated 60fps perfectly was F-Zero X on N64.
@__jamiie Almost every 2D console and arcade game ran at 60fps, actually, even long before the N64 came along!
But yeah, as far as 3D is concerned, 60fps wasn't seen too often on consoles until the Dreamcast and PS2 made it commonplace. F-Zero X was pretty special in that regard.
This is a random question to any solely PlayStation owners here. Are there any Xbox exclusive games you wish were on PlayStation? I'm really not trying to start a war or anything just curious.
Super Mario Bros was 60fps.
On the Nes.
Let that sink in......
I've read alot on this through out the week and seen were developers are blaming the s series for holding them back and fight with Microsoft to drop the series s . They won't thou because it's their gamer pass machine pretty much their stream box. Hopefully nexgen developers will be more mindful and not sign contracts that demand them to support outdated tech that bottle knecks game development for our $500 systems.
@Balie3000 I agree a ps5 pro is not needed to get 60fps. The ps5 is more then able we seen that.. PC has been running 60fps going on a decade now with 120 to 240 being their standard. I say $70 game should gaerentee 60fps
@nessisonett I agree 💯 percent! Going forward I feel like there should be an option available for 60fps whether it's a drop in resolution in order to get it done (dynamic 4K at 60fps or even 1440p at 60fps) or even like a drop in features like forgoing Ray tracing in favor of 60fps (like how cyberpunk 2077 does on PS5).
I also believe certain games can perform just fine at 30fps but DEVS should try to make 60fps a priority option.
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