Surprise! Forspoken and Other Square Enix Games Didn't Meet Sales Expectations

very strange company. its not as if their games are bad as such... Just many end up average and get overlooked

Still waiting for those FF Pixel Remasters…

Didn’t they also release a lot of these games just weeks between each other?
No idea what they were thinking. They just ended up cannibalising their own sales.

Hope Crisis Core did well enough🤞

So far I haven't this blockchain stuff working out for a game dev, they ought to give up on that.

I bought every one of these games mentioned except for forspoken. All of them were fantastic, but quite niche. I hope SE continues these kinds of game (besides forspoken) and find a way to make them profitable.
I must say I was overwhelmed with all those quickfire releases.

* Suprised Pikachu Face *

I'm so glad Square-Enix isn't my father; I'd need years of therapy to deal with the constant disappointment.

Advertising and marketing would have helped alot of those games in fairness. Then again making games like Babylons Fall and that Chocobo racer that died within a year probably did more damage.

Guardians was one of the absolute highlights of my gaming year, and I really hope it gets a sequel. Though granted I wouldn't have played it if not for extra. Can't speak for much else on the list. But Squeenix are not the company they once were when it was almost a guaranteed quality product.

I buy everything square make apart from some pixel games, and those games weren't all that bad apart from valkyrie Elysium. For me personally star ocean and forspoken were easily 7/10 and Octopath Traveler and Crisis Core being a 9/10. Even on the switch side of things I thought, Triangle Strategy, Harvestella and Dragon Quest Treasures were really great games.

Maybe people have no interest in JRPG's like they used to outside of main dragon quest and final fantasy games. Maybe they should use all their resources to make final fantasy and dragon quest games every two years.

Their release schedule made no sense! I‘ve had to choose between their titles throughout the winter 🤦🏼‍♀️ because they were releasing a week or two within one another.

Final Bar line is an honest 9/10 for me though. I hope it performs well. And Crisis Core was a phenomenal remaster of a strange, fun game. I think it will have legs…

To be fair, Square has a history of unrealistic expectations. Remember when they whined about the Tomb Raider reboot from 2013 not meeting expectations? Yeah, and it's regarded by most as a great game that fostered two sequels that weren't as good.

Yeah Sony, purchase this company😵‍💫🤪
The only sure fire hits they have in the cooker is Devil May Clive 16, & maybe 7 Rebirth (if it ever comes out). They just seem lost, & have for a long time.

Squeenix got too big for their own good.

A PS5 Final Fantasy XIII trilogy remaster would be very nice and could bump up profits

I mean, it's not like you can pump out average tier games with horrible names like Various Daylife (or outright trainwrecks like Forspoken), and expect them to sell like the latest Final Fantasy.

I agree with many of the comments on the games being overlooked and average. I tried the Star Ocean: Divine Force demo and wanted to play it, but there were just better games coming out and my time is very limited. I really appreciate Square trying to release varied titles, but as the article said, poor timing hurt those releases.

They should Capcom-ize their business model. Study and understand each game franchise to not lose its core ideas, and explore what you do best. Square Enix has some great IPs, but it seems lost in how to market them. Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest and Kingdom Hearts sell like crazy for a reason.

Forspoken had to sting bad, what an absolute flop. I honestly think they’d be better off getting acquired at this point.

"Am I out of touch?

No... It's the lack of NFTs that is wrong."

Fanboys told me the game did well.

Maybe flooding the market with mediocre, low-budget games wasn't the best move.

Looking at Metacritic, only a few of their 2022 games consistently scored in the 80s or above:
Tactics Ogre: Reborn; Triangle Strategy; Live-A-Live; Final Fantasy VI Pixel Remaster; and the Switch port of NieR: Automata

Their HD2D games tend to be winners. Or at least aren't roundly dismissed like stuff such as Diofield, Valkyrie Elysium, and the last Star Ocean.

I will definitely be buying FF16, around release time and OT2 when it's down to a price, that I think it's worth paying. Played the demo, thought it was good but not at current price. Why wasn't the first game, released on Playstation?

@Shad361 Forspoken had fans?

Must add that many gamers (including the comments here) bashed many of these games pre release due to mostly superficial reasons like the character design in star ocean or diofield just on the base of it's name. Forspoken had a lot of bad talk about it to, which turned out correct, but at least I wait until it's reviewed by multiple sources until I make up my mind on it.

Square Enix's bread and butter for a long time was to introduce us to new and unique RPGs - both traditional JRPG and action RPGs. Sometimes it even released games completely out of left field like Bushido Blade and Ehrgeiz.

But now it seems like it doesn't want those anymore unless they sell billions. I bet every one of the games listed turned a profit, it just wasn't "enough" profit.

I wouldn't be surprised if all the experimental HD-2D stuff is on the chopping block next (brilliant as they may be).

The company sure has lost its way.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind the company being acquired by someone just so its studios can get out from under the absurd sales expectations and just make great games.

Buuut, I would only want that acquisition IF it stayed 100% multi-console - mainly because I feel like the rekindled relationship with Nintendo has had an impact on the company not sticking to only making high-profile AAA titles.

@Ralizah pretty much, they’re true to roots and budget sensible games do well.

Third person AAA garbage don’t and just bloats costs. I want them to double down on HD-2D stuff tbh.

Hard to not view this as a way to collect insurance money to throw at this idiot’s NFT hobby. Seriously, ever since this guy voiced his love for nfts every game they’ve released outside of ones they know will sell wildly well (Final Fantasy XIV, VII) completely flop. Their target for Guardians of the Galaxy was also ridiculous. The company seems more and more like a front for this lunatics gambling habits. Hopefully Sony flat out buys then and gets rid of his replacement.

@frankmcma oooh gimme, I'm one of the few I belive that actually liked these games, really loved the end game in them, some of the hardest post bosses I've done in FF series

Not surprised. I love SE games but Forspoken just didn't call out to me to get it yet. I'd like to see Square Enix try to make their own Atlus-type of games, mainly Persona which could be more open and free.

@Mikey856 tougher man than my self, I just couldn't finish up the platinum the weapon levels or skill whatever was called broke me, it was just so boring, bitter disappointment was really looking forward to it but huge let down

Lol you forgot to include the likes of DQ treasures, Harvestella, and apparently Octopath 2 (going off a bunch of weird articles claiming it's underperforming), in that list of potential disappointments

I don't care how disappointed they are in the sales. I'm glad they still brought a new Star Ocean, Valkyrie to the table as well as made new ips like Diofield and Harvestella. Many of the JRPG circles around the web I visit usually have nothing but good things to say about these low mid budget games. They've never been huge sellers and they never will be

I just hope they don't give up on them as a result and focus mainly on the bigger KHs, FFs, DQs. Nor try to pander to nostalgia with the countless remasters and ports, or go hard on the painfully generic HD2D games

As a fan of JRPGs that were mostly made by SE (no matter how niche they are), it's sad to see them in an all time low. I'm really hoping that once the current CEO steps down and gets replaced, things will get a little better.

They should drop any ideas of entering the NFT market, stop with live-services game and focus on single-player narratives and stop making any tie-in mobile games that are mostly focused on Gacha

the problem is their sales expectations what are they basing these expectations on ? they seem to just produce a big no way achievable number out of thin air

@Judal27 They didn’t list them because those games aren’t on Playstation would be my guess.

Couldn’t disagree more on the HD-2D take though, the Live a Live remake and Triangle Strategy thoroughly **** on anything else Square Enix put out last year. Except maybe Dragon Quest Treasures.

Has Square-Enix released any game in the past decade that actually did meet sales expectations? Big, AAA games, small AA games, highly marketed games, games shadow dropped with no marketing at all, JRPGs, Western games. Marvel licensed games. No matter what they make it "fails to meet expectations." Yet they seem to not consider their expectations are simply unbased in reality?

Lets just write the news article now and get it done with: "Square-Enix says FFXVI Failed to Meet Sales Expectations" Just post the story now and we can get it out of the way for later in the year. Say you got it from an "insider" with "credible information."

The one thing that remains hilarious through all this is the constant refrain from people "Sony should buy Square-Enix"

While Square Enix shows up 3 times a year to say "We fail at absolutely everything! Continuously! We lose money like crazy! Nothing we make sells well! We can't plan! We don't understand our market! We just sold half our company because we don't even know what to do with it!" WTF would Sony, or anyone really, buy that.

I think we're getting close to the point Square-Enix fans should start demanding MS to buy them so they get a sugar daddy to feed their endless waste just to appease niche fan bases, because at this point Square-Enix will just vanish.

@Ralizah The sad thing is Star Ocean was great. And a major improvement from previous entries since the second. It basically just copied Arise, and that's not a bad thing.

People also forget that Square is one of the only publishers that still PUBLISHES. Star Ocean , Diofield, etc are not games they made, just published. I'd buy any of those games twice before I'd buy "God of Dante: An FF Story" though.

Square just seems to believe that Diofield should sell like Hogwarts, without the marketing, and they also seem to budget around that expectation. But these are the same people that were going to close IOI for underperforming....

@NEStalgia I don't think they expect games like DioField to sell like Hogwarts. I'll just say this: generally, when a smaller release like that hits certain milestones, we hear about it on Twitter. We heard when Triangle Strategy hit 800,000, then a million copies sold. Same with Monster Hunter Stories 2 crossed the million copies sold threshold. And Shin Megami Tensei V. And so on.

The utter silence on the performance of games like DioField Chronicle, Star Ocean, the Valkyrie game, etc. tells me they're probably struggling to even hit even a few hundred thousand units sold.

As for Star Ocean, it has always seemed like a forgettable c-list JRPG series to me, and reviews/footage of this newest one do nothing to disabuse me of this notion.

But then, I haven't played the most recent ones, and there are also a number of series I love that seem to keep reviewing poorly (hello, Fatal Frame), so I can't really say much.

@GamingFan4Lyf "I wouldn't be surprised if all the experimental HD-2D stuff is on the chopping block next"

HA! More like the chopping blockCHAIN!

Okay, I'll see myself out.

@Ichiban Devil May Clive, hahahaha — might have to steal that one.

I think the should go back to Squaresoft and Enix, it all went downhill from the merger 😂

SE has been one of those companies that just feels so out of touch with these bizzare decisions be it releasing games in a way that they caniballise each other or be it just insane expectations for games and not understanding the market for them.

Honestly if Sony does plans to acquire them, it's better to wait for these blockchain games to crash and burn first and then pull the trigger.

If you're going to have high expectations, follow some simple rules Square

1: Increase Marketing budget!

Look at Guardians of the Galaxy, that was definitely required. It's a really, really good game. But you can't just rely on the IP, People assumed it'd be like the avengers game, or like a knock off of the films. So they really dropped the ball back then in not showing people that the game is actually much more than a lazy licensed game attempt made by a team that understood what made the Guardians popular and what fans would enjoy.

2: all of their published games need a streamlined team, with one vision, a small group in charge of what the games actually will be, no outside interference. Not like Forspoken and it's mish mash, generic wishy washy mix of blandtasy? (bland fantasy?) if they ever want a big release in the future, they HAVE to have a really passionate and driven team following a clear vision. You cannot make good games by committee! Forspoken is the ultimate example of that. Step on some toes, take a risk or two, don't try to market research what might make a good game, just get a talented person with a solid vision behind it, and then actually follow it through!

@Sakisa I haven't played the full game for any of them but I have played all their demos despite having some of them in my backlog anyway. It was enough to know these HD2D games (not including live a live because it's literally old lol) were going for the oldest of old school JRPG nostalgia equipped with mundane writing, painfully traditional jrpg gameplay and everything. My biggest problem though is the awful implementation of the graphics in the 1st place with all the blurs and the blooms. And they look just as if not more "dark and colorless" than FFXVI. I feel like the DQ3 remake will be the 1st to finally turn that around for me. It's the best looking HD2D game yet. And I'd be even more excited if they announce it for PS too when they finally reveal platforms

But yea, I don't think I can say I disagree with you yet but the HD2D games havent left me a very good impression either

Triangle Strategy really was wonderful @somnambulance

Shame i really really liked the diofield Chronicles.

@Judal27 Yeah, I don't look down old school JRPG design with disdain (if anything, the modern stuff like FFXVI and VII Remake that seem ashamed of their genre roots are what disgust me)

I want more of what the HD-2D side has to offer, the games have their own quirks and identities while being faithful to what I fell in love with in the genre in the first place, they don't come across as generic to me, and they don't spit in the genre's face

@Sakisa lol I don't look down old school jrpgs with disdain if that's what you're saying. I just don't believe these HD2D games have their own identity. Without the graphics, which I guess you could say is what makes their identity their own, they wouldn't be all that different from the JRPGs of the past and I don't mean that in a good sense. Like they take all the bad stuff that comes with old school design but almost none of the good. To me anyway, obviously people love them. But I don't see anything different between them and the jrpgs that Kemco pumps out which are also just old school JRPGs but not nearly as well received

I just don't want SE to go flooding their catalog with them. Like I'll take RPGs in the style of the Pixel Remasters any day over it

@Judal27 Even setting aside the HD-2D style, I fail to see in any way how the design in Octopath Traveler of Triangle Strategy is bad, if anything the writing and ways Triangle Strategy handled its tactical gameplay, especially in the late game sung on their own terms without the graphical style being needed.

The Pixel Remasters are also great, i'd take both those and the HD-2D stuff, and throw in the Tactics Ogre remaster too over their modern take on Final Fantasy and their ventures like Forspoken.

@Ralizah to be fair valkyrie elysium was pretty bad, it getting dismissed is pretty fair.

@Sakisa I wish I knew how to upload images cause there was one I liked for how Octopath handled it's dungeons. Couple that with random encounters which aren't necessarily a bad thing but it's always been more tedious than anything. It's a by the numbers JRPG but without much of a story to keep me hooked through it. As for triangle strategy, my issues have never been the gameplay. People seem to love the story so Im not dismissing it completely yet. But people also say the writing is better in OT2. Nothing I've played nor watched of the two have really inspired much confidence in me

Ive said it before, I don't have a preference for what style SE chooses to make as long as it's good. Im loving how FFXVI is looking. I loved their modern take on a turn based rpg in DQ11. I love many of their mid low budget tier games. It's really only the HD2D games that just don't gel with me for whatever reason

Square is just FF now.

I said it again.

@Sakisa Triangle Strategy is probably the best SRPG I've ever played. I was extremely skeptical of it at first, but it really blew me away. Ironically enough, the presentation is probably the least notable aspect of the game to me: I don't think its implementation of the HD2D artstyle is great. Everything else, though, was amazing.

I also love that they're remaking classic games that never came West like Front Mission 2, Live-A-Live, etc.

And the occasional spinoff that works really well like the Theatrhythm games.

I agree their other projects don't appeal to me, though. Final Fantasy XVI just feels like a random grimdark action-rpg with FF branding attached to raise its profile. While I love DQXI, they've signaled XII is going to follow Final Fantasy's lead and become "more adult" and action-oriented to appeal to Western gamers, so that's out as well. And I have, like, zero interest in the generic low-to-mid budget stuff like Harvestella, Star Ocean, Valkyrie, etc. Neither does anyone else, judging by how they're selling.

Maybe next time make a game that isn't trying to pander to Twitter minorities and you'll have success again Square! <3

very good news indeed. the sooner s-e admits defeat, the sooner sony can gobble them up and take s-e to the next level. let's get real for a minute: s-e has needed a change in direction and wake up call for a LONG time now. bar a few exceptions, they have struggled to find much success over the past 15 years or so and completely lost direction and magic that they were once known for. unless you grew up in the 80s, 90s or early 2000s, you would not understand how prominant and influential this studio/publisher once was.

@Ralizah The previous 2 star oceans were mediocre if I'm generous. But the new one was tremendously fun. Really it was an arise clone, bit that isn't a bad thing.

It's only real problem is it's obvious the budget fell out at the end and the last act was really poor, but I enjoyed the rest of the game enough that I can overlook that, and frankly expect that from long RPGs at this point. Technically the same problem applied to arise, too, though with somewhat more budget.

But it's sad that that's probably the end of the line because it clear they really found a good groove with this game and I really want to see them continue that... Which probably won't happen. (Btw Tri-Ace was started by some of the original Tales devs do similarity to different eras of tales games isn't surprising.... And arise arguably borrowed heavily from star ocean what with the space+fantasy element.

The problem is that they barely had any marketing at all. I forgot Diofield chronicles and Star Ocean 6 were even released.

@Yosuke Well, I meant dismissed critically as well. None of those games reviewed well, either.

Although it's also true that most people just didn't hear about them. Like I said, there's something to be said for not saturating the market with releases in a short time span. I've skipped a few of their games I might have otherwise looked at if they'd released in a different time frame.

Arguably the same issue NIS is having with Disgaea, tbh. Too many games in too small a span of time. People have just become tired of the series.

@NEStalgia I mean, if these games reviewing and selling poorly was going to tank the series, why hasn't it happened yet? I don't see any reason to expect they're going to retire the IP now, unless you're privy to some sort of information that I'm not.

I probably ought to play a Tales game at some point. I own at least two of them, since they go super low in sales (Berseria and Vesperia, I believe). I just hate the look of the combat!

@Ralizah I'd heard that Tri-Aces future was uncertain and may hinge on this games success. It's not official but this statement from square isn't confidence inspiring.

Tales combat is a bit button mashy... It's fun but slightly mindless at times. Still better than what FFXVI looks like though

Our games sold low, so we concede total and ultimate defeat, here is us at our rock bottom making a Cloud Strife NFTs and remember, no screenshots!

@Mikey856 hell yeah , FF13 is my jam . it has a charm to it that no other FF has

Square just have far too large expectations for sales potential of their games?

The large majority of their games are niche so in turn probably meet niche like games sales numbers. I hope their smaller games as it were aren’t given up on. They could probably stand to make fewer of the smaller games, like there was a direct last year where they announced like 4-5 games I think, multiple of which were farm sims.

I actually liked star ocean, outside of the excessive blathering.

Just like StarOcean and Valkyrie... After playing Forspoken, it was nowhere near as bad as people/reviews tried to make it out to be.

Regardless, Prime Gaming has the Covet nails up for grabs.

https://gaming.amazon.com/covet-nails/dp/amzn1.pg.item.a7a4f2a4-4eed-418d-bb6e-4f0d6223d636

@NEStalgia Ah, so they've might've needed the series to have its Fire Emblem Awakening moment, and instead it was just ignored again. That's a pity. I'm pretty sure we would've heard if the game had sold well.

It kinda just came and went without anyone talking about it.

Won't be surprised if it drops on Game Pass soon.

@Uromastryx Lots to love..I also like that they were sequels..in a series that does not do sequels...

@Mikey856 It would be so cool to play the FFXIII games on current consoles..I hope it's on their roadmap!

@Ralizah Yeah, that's what it sounded like was the state the series/studio was in. I think fans of the series are jaded from few releases, and most of them poor (that PS4 title was not great), and everyone else never cared to begin with. It's just a shame, because IMO they really DID have their Fire Emblem Awakening moment with this game in terms of the quality improvement and delivering a good game (let down by the dreary last parts), but the audience just never showed up. And square never marketed it. At all.

If it weren't Square-Enix and whatever it is going on with them, I'd have thought it would get a Game Pass drop. But this is Square-Enix....so I don't expect that either.

@NEStalgia I mean, the older FE games were still great. They just weren't selling. Awakening wasn't a jump in quality, it just made the series appealing to a wider audience, sort of like how Atlus made Persona appealing by adding in social simulation elements.

Maybe the problem is that what it was offering wasn't unique enough. The way you've described it makes it sound like a poor man's Tales of Arise, which might not be the worst thing in the world, but... people can just go play Tales of Arise, right?

Square-Enix has already put a bunch of games on Game Pass, and the higher-ups at that company would sell their own mother for a dime. The Xbox port is already there, right? If it doesn't go to Game Pass, it'll be due to a lack of interest from Microsoft, not the other way around. Maybe Square-Enix games just haven't been enjoying much engagement on the platform?

The tomb raider trilogy selling 36 million copies was a disappointment these people r never happy 😊

@Ralizah IDK that the jrpg fan base is too wary of "not unique enough"... But even still, I think it's certainly full of similarities (though the space angle was tales emulating ocean...). They're similar in structure and concept but they're certainly their own story and universe.

I think it's more a case of "if you like tales of arise, you'll also like star ocean divine force". It's a better tales game then the last 3 FFs are FF games and sales don't seem to mind...

I'm honestly not sure how much of the failure is because nobody was interested in divine force, or if it's because integrity on PS4 was so amazingly panned it just killed it's successor. The series has an odd history. Most of it was in the 90s, snes and ps1, then timed Xbox exclusive, then years, then remasters.. then years, then the dreadful integrity and faithlessness.. then years, now this one, that's really good, but the audience it's stale and the prior game turned off what was left.

Enter square, publisher extraordinaire, that markets it not at all and ships it to die.... (Of course it's a miracle they funded it at all given the past, but why fund a game and then fail to promote it to the potential audience?)

Just sad, because it's really a worthwhile series, with ups and downs and a tiny budget, and this entry should have put it back on the map but I imagine the series, and studio, ends with this if square isn't pleased...

Moving forward, maybe write an article when SE does meet sales expectations? =D

Screw blockchain, NFTs, and all their ilk. I guess they want their company to die sooner rather than later.

Surprise, surprise. S-E's unrealistic sales expectations strikes once again.🙄 That said, I'm not shocked at Forspoken as the game was lackluster to say the least.
Valkyrie Elysium & Star Ocean TDF aren't surprising either but its still too bad imo. I actually enjoyed them despite their flaws.

I can see Diofield being a flop, but surely Star Ocean did well. If Tales of Arise is a hit i don't see how Star ocean doesn't do well.
Valkyrie Elysium is a gem and as usual people sleep on the series and critics review it with double standards and then it becomes a cult classic.

I got both near launch. Would love for squeenix to do more titles like this.
Surely the budgets weren't that high.
I just think that squeenix always expects every game to sell FF levels.

@GodofCapcom not really. Dragon Quest is still very popular.

It's a shame, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for SE right now with their current NFT stance. Plus they've been making a bunch of weird business decisions lately, and their recent games do tend to vary in quality.

@Shstrick I was waiting for it to come available physical to find out it was sold out this should have been free money.

I played the Forspoken Demo for five to ten minutes. It was enough to get a sense of the game and I was left with the presumption that is all the game would be - open world combat ad infinitum with progressive unlocks and skills. It didn’t appear like a game that would offer any surprises or present anything new that isn’t there in the opening few moments of the game.

everything new released after xbox 360, playstation 3, and windows 7 was mostly insignificant.

Relying on Blockchain is a very weird attempt to save the situation.

@naruball

I mean. That's one per gen if we are lucky.

SE would likely get better sales if they made games that were good like they used to. I dunno, I'm no doctor.

@Shepherd_Tallon @somnambulance The biggest problem with SE is that its corporate leaders are completely out of touch with not just the gaming community but also the legacy of what made Squaresoft and Enix the most beloved developers in the JRPG genre (something the Devs understand, but not them) and try to measure everything like if the games were something they're not in reality (leading to sales expectations that are so unrealistic, just because other games could realize them better), not to mention that they lack any planning when doing everything (if these games were spaced out better and released in dates when they don't get "sandwiched" by even more bigger tittles, sales would fare better)

This company NEEDS a major shake up or to be sold to someone that really cares

Maybe they should make games that appeal to people, not trends and twitter.

@IslandLogic
They left out the ol after the B in Blockchain.

@somnambulance but in the case of Capcom all their games belong to completely different genres and thus go to very different crowds. Even more, some of them will sell by name alone as their sagas became synonymous with the genres they belong to in the west (SFVI to Fighting, RE4R to Survival Horror) or have factors that will help them sell (MMBNC belonging to a iconic IP which is Mega Man and also the fact of the Battle Network anime, Exoprimal going to Game Pass and thus will get exposed to players who will judge them by themselves and, if the game's good, word of mouth will spread and the game sells)

Almost all the games SE had put out are JRPGs and thus, they cater to the same crowd which only means they cannibalized their sales just by releasing them too close to each other and also other games that belong to the same genre that came from Bandai Namco, Atlus and Nippon Ichi Software. No amount of marketing would've make a difference here because of that single factor alone

Its OK to try new things sometimes, but the fact the Blockchain, NFTs and Crypto, have proven time and again to be the most hated things by the gaming community and in general and too prone to fail every time it's tried, and yet the executives still keep insisting in that, that tells you how out of touch they're are to the community