The Last of Us co-creator and long-time Naughty Dog game director Bruce Straley has sparked a developer debate on social media, after declaring that linear games are easier to make. The insinuation here is that titles which have a set path, like perhaps Uncharted: Drake’s Fortune, take less of a toll on teams than giant open world releases, such as Horizon Forbidden West.
Several developers agree with the point, and many fans are also pointing out that they prefer more guided experiences overall. “Easier to make, more creatively interesting, and not a time suck to play,” one fan said. “Sounds like a win-win to me!”
We’re obviously no where near as informed as a veteran like Straley, but we can certainly see how a more linear title would be easier to develop than an open world one, as there are obviously fewer things that could potentially go wrong when you generally know the path the player is going to follow. Sandbox releases also have to populate their worlds with content, otherwise they feel empty and bland.
Personally, we don’t have a horse in either race: we like linear games and we like open world games, too. But we’ve always been big proponents of the hybrid approach: titles like Hitman, with their vast levels, give you plenty of opportunity to explore, without forcing you to trudge through hundreds of kilometres of terrain. We also like the way God of War Ragnarok handles this, by offering plenty of opportunity to venture from the critical path, while still retaining the high production values of a more guided campaign.
But when push comes to shove, do you prefer linear games or open world games? Let us know in the poll and comments section below.
Do you personally prefer linear games or open world games? (1,599 votes)
- Linear games
- Open world games
[source twitter.com]
Comments 97
I think he’s deliberately stating the obvious there!
Making a truly great open world game is really hard, that’s why you can basically count on one hand those that actually make the cut! There are countless awesome linear games by comparison, though.
I mean…did anyone think otherwise?
This is more obvious than Jeff Grubb saying PlayStation will do a showcase this year.
"Do you personally prefer linear games or open world games?"
That really depends. If it is a good open world I prefer that but sadly most open world games don't actually take proper use of their open world. Most of the time it just feels like running of a checklist
I don’t much care for The Last of Us, but as a general rule I think he’s right with linear being much, much better than open world games and a win/win for the player and developer.
Interesting results so far on the poll🫣
@Uromastryx I'm also really fascinated to see the poll results.
He is stating the obvious here. I like both but I find it odd why people complain about open world game's being a time sink, it's like moaning that £100 gold steak has too much meat on it. Why buy an open world game if you have that view, it makes no sense to me.
There are good and bad examples of both.
I've seen linear games that tried to pretend to be more open world by sending you back to a prior level to play it again with some new nuance (a new skill or tool that lets you open paths that were closed the first time through). Those can be a lot of fun, or just lame.
I've seen amazing, engaging open world games, as well as those where you're frustrated as you roam around looking for some useless collectible because you need it for some reward, and it feels more like a chore than a game.
It's all about the implementation. It makes sense it's easier to pull off a rewarding campaign when you have more control over where the player can go and what order they will encounter things.
Isn't that obvious?
I chose open world games as I love exploring, give me horizon and ghost of tsushima any day over uncharted and TLOU.
But I suppose it depends if the games open world is done correct, games like atelier and zedla transitioned well into an open world setting, whereas games like halo infinite and death stranding didn't.
i would have never ever guessed in a thousand... No, a million years.
I felt his statement was in regards to FF16 not being open world. I could be wrong though. I like a good mix, like Uncharted 4 and Lost Legacy's "wide linear" approach. Loved GoW 2018 amd Ragnorok but I love HZD HFW as well.🤷🏾♂️ Maybe I'm the problem 😅
Yeah, I prefer linear over open world.
I’m honestly burnt out on open world games. Especially Ubisoft-esque “open” worlds.
Would love to know what went down with him and Naughty dog
Is this is way of saying "Factions is delayed?"
Personally I enjoy both types of games, but I got over on-rails playable movies 15 years ago. A game doesn't have to be a Ubisoft sandbox to be good, but it needs to have more freedom of action than, say FF13, or, honestly, GoW18, or every ND game since Jak 1 for me to be really into it. I can accept an on-rails dark ride design for VR, but not for 2D games.
I didn't vote in the poll because I don't think answer is so clear cut. Just being "open world" doesn't make a game better (Hello, Forspoken!), but being linear doesn't necessarily make it better than open world (hello most of what ND makes!)
@banacheck There's a difference between a four-hour movie that keeps you engaged and on the edge of your seat for four hours straight, and a four-hour movie that has you checking your watch dozens of times and wondering why it wasn't 90 minutes.
The same can be true for video games, whether they're open world or linear. If you're constantly engaged and interested in what's next, then it's entertainment - but if you feel like you're working through a shopping list or a list of weekend chores and you wish you could just get to the next thing, it's not fun.
I've been thinking about this for years and I have no idea which I prefer.
Sometimes I'm in the mood for one, sometimes the other.
Intuitively you may think It has to be harder to make a game open-ended and have to contemplate developing multiple branching routes through a narrative, and account for player agency driving the story forward.
But then you have to acknowledge the calibre of ND creating a masterpiece in storytelling and having the player emotionally connect with it.
Take the 2 best examples of each type of game, GTA and TLoU. They are both as absorbing as each other for different reasons, and are the best at what they do. But there is a reason why its easier to make sandbox games that GTA demonstrates; it has many sequels. When the story only has to provide a backdrop it doesn't have to be of the kind of quality TLoU reaches. ND also showed that with its divisive release of TLoU2 which whilst isn't as widely loved as TLoU.
So in short sandbox games are easier.
From a consumer level, I find Linear and Open World games to be incomparable. In 2023, I find Linear games to be more refreshing as there is major oversaturation with Open World games. However, we can't overlook Open World games that are executed in fun and innovative ways.
Good lord is this what classes as news these days? And i enjoy both open world and linear games,it just depends what mood i'm in really. I prefer black tea with a blob of honey over all other beverages if anybodys interested..
Lol. Such troll-bait.
@Americansamurai1 Me too. Felt a little venom there.
so why do we get more open world games than linear games?
apparently linear are easier to make and by the poll we prefer linear games
@berte yeah would love to know same with Amy Henning when she left during uncharted 4 development.
Wow, the poll has spoken!
I mean this is why when it comes to the exclusives, I respect Horizon so much.
I would not say I just prefer one over the other, but I think open-world games are too plentiful and for the sake of it these days. I think quality of focused shorter linearity is something even great games like GoW forgot how to do these. sometimes a game needs to be that long or open world, like Elder Scrolls, Persona 5, or Red Dead 2, but most games could benefit from "less content" and what's there being better and focused the entire time.
Dead Space was so good because it was shorter and more linear. And then even open-ended games with a million things to consider from being shorter and focused being under 30 hours like Prey.
People who complain constantly about value for games and the need for games to last forever and be super long to provide value really need to reconsider their budget and time dedicated to getting a higher budget if the time/value thing is that big of a deal. I get circumstances differ, but if you really need 100H to consider $60 worth it, you may have some other things that need your time more than gaming. That you're insanely cheap in a weird way (probably more likely) and need to reconsider the way you see value/time. I like gaming because it's fun, not because I think I take up my time with it.
Not controversial at all. Developers of linear games can design levels/gameplay around the linearity and know the kind of emotion/shock/disgust a player will experience at a certain moment. Open world games can have players never engage with the story or never travel and miss out on most of the game
I think there are more GOOD linear games, but it’s hard to beat a good open world (BOTW, Elden Ring, GTAV, etc), rare as they are. Too much Ubi-formula.
That said something like God of War and Ragnarok that is not entirety linear but neither open world is a pretty great balance.
I really don’t have a preference and I think a world where one can have both options on the table is ideal. I agree with the article that the hybrid model of semi-open world games can be done with amazing effect and has been in recent years.
I always like to keep a variety of games
On the go because I’m quite noncommittal. Tend to keep a driving game or a beat em up on the go with any narrative game in case I’m just not feeling like dealing with the scale of the latter.
I really have open world fatigue at the moment. Games like GoW really strike the balance beautifully.
I voted linear games but I like both so it’s whatever I just prefer linear if I have a choice. It’s funny seeing the poll results you would think open world games aren’t popular when they continue to sell outrageously and series that go open world like Elden Ring recently get their best sales from doing it
Went open world, If I could just play one for the rest of my life...
Both have their qualities so why does everything need to be binary... oh yeah, the internet
Depends on what's meant by "linear."
Is Yakuza linear? Xenoblade Chronicles? Series like those, which combine freedom with storytelling and some design structure, tend to be my favorite.
With that said, I'll vote for open worlds. I deeply enjoy the logical extreme of the open world approach (BotW and Elden Ring come to mind), whereas I deeply dislike the logical extreme in the other direction (The Last of Us, for example).
When I had more free time, I preferred open world games.
Today I prefer more linear experiences.
With that said, I think Halo Combat Evolved’s second level and the numerous games it inspired hit the perfect balance. You’re on a set linear path. But the play field is open and there are multiple ways to get to the end of the linear objective.
Those are my personal favorite types of games to be honest.
I love open/wide linear games
Yeah interesting debate,I love open world and linear games equally really ,having said that , just depends on the game itself ,if done properly and the game keeps you focused I'd probably just favour open world from the exploration side of open worlds but you sometimes get better more focused stories with linear games but not always ,of course as other people here have said ,open world games are so much more complicated to design and create,but yeah overall if push comes to shove I do just prefer open world but only if done brilliantly well ,linear games are fantastic also if done well ,like everything really done with passion and pride then we are all winners
Or semi open world games also are brilliant where you get chance to explore but still on a set path more or less ,its all gd though:)
Idk why we should live in a world where the choice is "either this, or that." And I don't mean just this poll specifically.
A lot of this mentality in just almost everything on social media. Let's have both!
@RobN
You explain it yourself. Not all game's are good it doesn't matter the genes.
I like both equally, but I feel open world is harder to make. Devs need to push quality over quantity.
Good open worlds for me are elden ring, red dead 2, witcher 3, horizon (both) etc.
Bad open worlds: spider-man, basically anything ubisoft , hogwarts etc.
I can enjoy both if the story is good, but I just can't push myself to play a game if I don't find the story interesting enough. I even found myself abandoning games with good gameplay but with boring stories and bad actings.
I don’t develop games but I would imagine yes, absolutely, linear games are easier to make.
I like both. Come at me
@tameshiyaku not everything is binary if you're prepared to ignore biology.
Man I remember when GTA3 came out, maybe first AAA 3D open world experience, my mind was blown.
Now I’m sick of open world and a map full of busywork is a major turnoff.
It seem kind of obvious.
I like both but I can't deny that I always get a bit more excited for a brand new Naughty Dog style game release than an open world one generally. However that could simply be because linear games like that don't come around as often as open world games these days.
The thing is though that while technically it's easier to develop, that doesn't mean it's easier to execute. Linear games essentially have to have a compelling story/characters and great moment to moment gameplay or else it all falls apart for me. Open world games on the other hand allow for more dynamic fun to be had as it can get more chaotic and unpredictable which can lead to "creating your own fun" as they say.
Bottom line? There's room for both in the industry.
I'm sure linear games are easier in the fact that they're much more focused. Linear games also come with their own problems, for one thing they are held to a much higher standard in almost every way in the AAA space. He needs to stop being so bitter for not being credited for the Last of Us tv show. He left Naughty Dog at least five years ago and it didn't sound like it was on good terms. He was credited for the game but I would argue that's where it ends. Just because you worked somewhere doesn't mean you should be credited in future endeavors. I know it sucks but it's the Studio's IP that he was once tied too but no longer.
OBVIOUSLY they are easier to make, and way more fun to play too. I love my open world games and some procedural too but the best story telling, the best level design, you will find that in a linear game.
I mean, this isn't exactly a revelation or hot take. Naughty Dog is bleeding edge graphics/tech, I can't even imagine the time sink of designing a more open ended game with their dedication to fidelity. I'm happy with them dipping their toes in open ended design a la Uncharted: Lost Legacy, but totally a devotee to their directed, linear experiences.
I didn’t vote cause i like both if the game is good, i admit more linear games are fun than most open world, but take Red Dead 2 for an example, it’s my favorite game ever, but few if any build open world games that well. I mean even the wide open boring part of RDR2 are beautiful to look at and just take in the scenery. But a good linear game just keeps you in the action and makes it feel like i am always advancing the game. Think we need a lot less open world games. Now please Rockstar give me RDR1 & RDR2 next gen.
@themightyant Great point GOWR is a great happy middle and i find myself loving most of the level design, even if i could do without a few puzzles to open doors, those just slow down the game and seem to be a fossil in game design.
I vastly prefer Uncharted type linear experiences and smaller open world but still kinda linear experiences like Bioshock.
I voted open world because in a good game you can have the goods of a linear game combined with a great scenery to explore and live in.
It's very hard to achieve this but when it's done it's unparalleled.
I admit though that some of my greatest gaming experiences are linear but i always think in the end "i wish this was open world so i can live a little longer within the game".
It' s not that I prefered linear games. I prefer quality over quantity and linear games often offer quality and open worls games often feel bland. Of course there are a few exceptions. But you get my point.
Linear is so much easier as you can control everything to ensure it runs and looks perfect. If an area is too heavy, they can tweak it to run smoothly where as an open world game is much more complicated as the 'view' is likely to be 'geometry' you can actually visit as opposed to some billboard artwork...
Rockstar Games. Still the kings of open world.
I like open world classic JRPGs like the obvious example.
But if you can't make a triple A game without loss of fidelity or bloating it with meaningless collectables, then it needs to be more linear or with separate large areas.
I like both open world and linear games as long as they are not boring or repetitive. Open world games that ask you to go from point A to point B with nothing interesting in-between are far worse than average linear games.
I miss the days of 7-10 hour AAA game
@NEStalgia Bruce Straley left Naughty Dog in 2017. He announced his own studio (Wildflower Interactive) last year. He's not involved in the development of The Last of Us multiplayer game.
Open world games simply can't have good pacing cause of their nature. They also tend to be very samey on the side activities which makes them grindy and repetitive.
Thinking about it, i don't think any open world ever graduated into my list of best games i ever played. They just feel like groceries lists with a badly paced main quest.
I imagine if one just focuses in the main quest, the experience will be better in pacing, aside from the traveling from A to B, but then you won't unlock the potential of the combat cause grinding is necessary.
Open world games are simply worse unless you love grinding.
There. I said it. 😆
@Northern_munkey What you're experiencing is a lack of interest in the topic, which is understandable.
However, your lack of interest does not mean something isn't newsworthy. I'll never understand those types of comments.
If you want to decide the content that gets published somewhere, start your own blog. 🤷🏽♂️
@fromjtov or you could just choose to ignore my comments. Remember everybodys entitled to their own opinions no matter how sarcastic 👍
Nintendo told their absolute worst Zelda story due to open world design.
Feel like the entire gaming landscape needs a good shot of linearity in the arm.
Don't see how this debate is so 'controversial' or something new for that matter.
As for me, while I generally go linear, it really depends on how the game is made as there are good and bad examples of both types.
I mean yeah I would imagine Linear Games ARE easier to make, not sure why something so obvious would be considered 'controversial'.
@motorik6 - Problem is that most gamers don't seem to want those linear experiences because they are of the belief that a game being linear automatically means the game's length will be short, and thus can't justify spending money on a short game.
Personally I like both Linear AND Lengthy more Open-World games, often after playing a lengthy game like say Spider-Man, Elden Ring, Days Gone, Persona 4/Persona 5, Far Cry 5 etc. the last thing I want to do is jump back into another lengthy game, I'll take a break and play something like Little Nightmares, Stray, Ratchet & Clank, Cuphead, Uncharted, Resident Evil, Resogun, or a Telltale Game, something I can play and finish in the span of 1-3 days, might play 2 or 3 of these types of games before I'm ready to jump into my next lengthy game.
I'm all for more Linear Experiences, but like I said; most people want those lengthier games that they can play for 60-70+ hours, because they need to feel like their money is 'well-spent', which can be a detrimental mindset to have because it can harm a Developers desire to make their game, I mean not every developer wants to make these big open lengthy games, most don't even have the funds or the capability of making those types of games, some Developers simply want to make these shorter more linear experiences, but knowing that such a game is unlikely to sell simply because most gamers have little-to-no variety in the games they play.
This is why it annoys me when certain individuals say "Urgh I want something new and different" but when presented with just such a game, they don't buy it, they don't play it, and they complain "Urgh I wish it was more like-" and then they wonder why most Developers don't want to take risks and create new unique experiences.
@Nem - I can see both sides of the argument, but I guess it really just depends on the game and the gamer, I mean give me an open-world zombie game like Dead Island, Dying Light, Days Gone or Dead-Rising and I'll absolutely lose myself in those games. Sure there are absolutely some open-world games that are exactly as you said, but there are a few open-world games that are in fact; great games, and while I admit grinding in games can be an issue, if done right, it might not even feel like a grind, but just another enjoyable part of the experience.
But again I guess it's just comes down to the game and the gamer.
Ye that sounds right. I remember the built up to god of war 2018 Cory Barlog stated that Santa Monica simple couldn’t make open world games like red dead or assassins creed and that it would take thousands of people to do one of that quality.
Personally I like both linear games like Dead Space or Metal Gear and Open Worlds like Elden Ring or BOTW.
What I hate is when linear games go out of their way to offer ‘open areas’ not because that’s what that game needs but because they’re afraid of not taking advantage of a market trend with exploration. Vice versa is also true- when a game is open world for the sake of it when it perhaps could have been much better as a linear title.
I also miss AAA Mission based games, one of the reasons I’m looking forward to Armoured Core.
Excellent observation mate re game length and open world being used to lengthen them/quantify their worth.
I myself was guilty of it recently. I thought the Calisto Protocol felt too short. On reflection, I would have been happy with it had it been given a proper conclusion and not put off for a future dlc purchase (another problem in gaming all together).
Hope you are well today mate. Cheers.
@JustPlainLoco
When I was younger I definitely preferred open world games. Now I don't have the time for them anymore, so prefer linear whenever possible.
shocking! I personally think that some of the ubi-soft games are actually very enjoyable. Having said that, I enjoyed the most the more linear sections e.g. the opening of syndicate, the battle at the light house of Alexandria in origins, or in days gone the saw-mill quest. In these sections the local maps are designed in a more interesting way, the enemy encounters are more surprising, the dialog bits seem to matter more. I suppose, It is just too difficult, or better said too time consuming, to fill an open world in an interesting, meaningful way (either manually or with the help of sophisticated algorithms).
@get2sammyb Why no Hybrid option in the vote? Democracy please?
@Northern_munkey — I chose not to ignore your comment, as I’ve ignored a number of similar comments from others in the past. If you’d rather not invite discussion, perhaps a public comment isn’t the best way to achieve that end.
Criticizing the newsworthiness of an article can come across as flippant and condescending, especially if done without offering constructive feedback.
It's important to remember that the writers are real people who put in significant effort to provide a breadth of daily content. They deserve common courtesy, regardless of whether or not we find every article to be of personal interest.
If you were being sarcastic, as you’ve suggested, it should be acknowledged that sarcasm and other nuances of communication can be difficult to detect without context clues.
@banacheck But most of the it isn't a steak but a crappy MC Donald's hamburger.
Hmm, I think I prefer the relative 'funnelling' of a good narrative in a linear game these days - although that opinion is somewhat influenced by my available play time at my time of life.
Several years ago, I finally played Fallout 3 and amassed something like 70+ hours on my playthrough, a sizeable chunk of which was open world content and side missions - and interesting ones at that. And this is kind of where modern stuff lets me down.
These days, I see a lot of the open world content as simply filler, and often not very interesting filler, whilst you wait for the next story beat a few hours down the line. I feel overwhelmed by all the optional activities that open up, and whilst I appreciate the choice, I often find filling my map with places to go and things to do just makes me want to back off from the game. In a linear adventure, I find I am happier to be guided somewhat and don't have to deal with the superfluous stuff, allowing me to focus on the story and get really into it.
Even something like Horizon Zero Dawn - which I absolutely loved - would often offer way too many distractions to me, which obviously I could ignore if I wanted to, but I found the narrative difficult to pick back up if I did too many of them. Compare this to something like Far Cry 5 - albeit a different interpretation of an open world, but at least that had a relatively simple storyline that was easy to pick up, even if I decided to go off and do a ton of optional side activities, which I did very often.
I guess it's all about balance, respecting the players time, but still offering everybody the choice. A difficult balance to strike no doubt, but one that, if done well, can result in some truly memorable games.
@Korgon I have to agree with you with tons open world games i almost never remember the characters in those.
Prefer linear games myself. Not to say that I don't enjoy open world games, I do, but they tend to have a lot of boring and repetitive side quests.
@riceNpea not what I was pointing to
@fromjtov oh god give it a rest will you. I see on your profile it says freelance journalist so have you taken it upon yourself to right the wrongs inflicted upon your fellow brethern or are you just touting for a job at push square? If people choose to be flippant or sarcastic then whats it to you? I was not being patronising or condescending so i'm not sure what your beef is? I'd rather you ignore me rather than be confrontational because thats how you are coming across chum. If you want to have a conversation then drop the superior tone as its not impressing me in the slightest..now we can be friends or foe its your choice.
Wow. This poll shows how many people crave to be told what to do.
I enjoy both types of games. Just as I enjoy roast beef & pizza. Variety is the spice of life!!
i liked the semi open world of last of us 2 , it wasn't really an open world but it leaves room to go off the path and find stuff kind of like the uncharted games as well. i also liked the way god of war did it as well. there was a good amount of exploring and side stuff to do , but it wasn't over whelming either. i feel like some games can be too big ( which isn't really a bad thing all the time) but i also take forever to finish those games as well.
@Northern_munkey I appreciate your curiosity about my motivations. I don’t have ulterior motives.
I don’t feel superior, and you certainly aren’t inferior. I’m just as much a member of this community as you are. If your approach, thoughts, and opinions are infallible but mine aren’t, that’s a bit of a double standard.
You’re not my foe. I just chose to speak up against the “not newsworthy” rhetoric you and many others in comments on this site have expressed. There’s nothing to win, lose, or gain. I’m not asking you to agree with me, but I said what I said and we can leave it at that.
I respect your freedom to share your thoughts openly, and I respect the nature of this community in that anything we share can be responded to at the will of anyone else, as equals. All the best. I hope you have a great day/night.
@fromjtov "I respect your freedom to share your thoughts openly." But still felt the need to question me? Any way i can see we are at an impass so lets just put this down to experience and move on as you say..enjoy the rest of your weekend 👍
@Ralizah Personally I wouldn't consider Yakuza or Xenoblade 2 or 3 linear games. Or most any RPG. Generally speaking you have total autonomy in the areas the narrative gating or level gating have unlocked to that point and are encouraged to go off the rails on different directions.
Ff13 is linear, and 10 arguably is. Xc1 is hard to categorize though. It's kind of the literal definition of open and linear at the same time. It's an on rails game yet you have a lot of areas more open than some open games.
Easier to make, and better too. So let’s just stop making Open World games now please yeah? They can join Funko Flops in landfill. In fact Open World games are full of pointless tat to collect, the Funko Flops should go there.
On a positive note about Open World games, real life businesses should adopt the same business model that shops in those games all follow: your customers are also your suppliers!
Your customers give you the raw materials for your products (for free no less), and then you charge them for the end product as normal. Almost a 100% operating profit margin! Of course it helps they can find the raw materials just dotted around the wilderness in bushes and fit a billion of them in 1 backpack.
Needs an option for both.
@NEStalgia The issue with XC1 is the game does literally nothing with its gigantic environments besides hide some secret areas and special enemies that don't do much to reward you for killing them. The DE version has an autorun function, so I've taken to activating that and allowing Shulk to tromp through these environments on his own while I do stuff on my phone, occasionally intervening when an enemy aggros or I have to manually change directions. Certain sections of this game literally just require you to hold up on the control stick almost the entire time.
I thought this would be the time I finally get the appeal of the game, but, honestly, the more I play, the more I marvel at how much the sequels improved nearly every aspect of the experience.
The fact that people still insist on this game being the best in the series just blows my mind.
Open world. Although, PS isn't happy with me simply answering the question and told me to write more.
I prefer linear games myself. This probably sacrilege to say but I cannot get my head around Zelda BoTW because it's so open ended. I much prefer the more traditional Zelda games. For this reason, my favourite series of all time is probably Uncharted. Amazing spectacle and compelling stories.
I prefer games that have several smaller scale open areas, such as Metro Exodus, opposed to one giant open world, like Assassin's Creed Odyssey, Origins, etc
@Ralizah XC1 is basically a JRPG designed as if ND made a JRPG. Nobody likes it for the boring gameplay, it's all about the story. It's modern gaming before modern gaming existed. It gets endless praise as this amazing game and what everyone really means is I love pressing B while I watch this movie.
The movie really is great, but yeah the sequels are far better games.
I don't get it. How can you both say "we don't have a horse in either race" and yet also not include a "I don't have a horse in either race" option in your poll? Personally I like a mixture. Open world games are good (when they're made well) but if all games were open world, that'd be a very tedious world to play games in
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