Horizon Forbidden West Has Become One of PS5's Best-Selling Games

It’s a great series and those numbers are fully deserved. Think how many they would’ve sold if each game hadn’t of released next to Breath of the Wild and Elden Ring respectively.

Geez. That's big as a Tallneck.

Great game,on another note capcom should borrow the engine for the new monster hunter

Over the moon to hear that love this game and series so much ^__^

Huh. Not as impressive as GoWR but was expected. I honestly thought they would have reached 10m by now but at least it's the second best selling game as I expected it.

I wish we could know ratchet, gt7, returnal and demon souls current sales.

Oh and Spider-man will def beat everyone and I think it'll stay that way until the end of the gen.

The Netflix series will boost sales too.

In b4 comments about how 8.3m of those sales were due to bundles.

Well deserved! They get snubbed on all gaming rewards but the Horizongames are top-tier. Even the PSVR2game!

And most of that would have been at £70, so around £500+ million? On a reported budget of around £95 million

Not bad. Especially if they release some type of movie or TV series and really get the franchise rolling and making money from more diverse revenue streams

Of course there was always the chance it could have flopped, it’s generally not my type of game, but glad it did well.

Fully Deserved, amazing game.

Hopefully goes on to sell way more.

Very likely there be a PC release this year with the dlc included.

Great series and, for me, fully on par with the two other giant games released last year.

Nice to see my fellow Dutchmen having this much success on a global scale.

I wonder what will happen with games sales now the PS5 consoles are selling like crazy. Will FF16 reach 10 million or are the series too "niche" for that?

@naruball I was going to make the bundle comment because it certainly made a difference. You couldn't buy a PS5 without it. I had to buy the Horizon bundle if I wanted a PS5 with a disc drive, eventhough I had a Horizon code from a friend. And this was directly through Sony!

These might not be Ragnarok numbers but still very impressive for a 1st party title nonetheless. Putting this into perspective, many 3rd party multi platform games struggle doing 8 mil

Horizon was the game I got to be impressed by the PS5. Impressed I was. Now my girlfriend is playing it and is similarly enrapt by the world.

Great game, though not as emotionally invested as in ghost of Tsushima, last of us 2, god of war or uncharted. But damn, these graphics are stunning. The first ps5 game that felt like a generation leap, even if it also was on PS4.

@thefourfoldroot1 The math isn't quite that simple (if you consider VAT, retail margins, etc... but also deluxe and collector editions) but it's pretty safe to say the games have done well

It's always good news but I still miss Killzone, I can keep dreaming.

Nice. I still haven’t finished the main story (took a break to play Jedi Survivor) but I only have the final mission left to do I think. I’ve already completed all the side content. I thought the dlc was good but not outstanding. I’m sure Guerrilla and Sony are pleased with these numbers though.

Edit: Sorry, I saw the image and thought the article was referring to the dlc. I haven’t had a coffee this morning 😂

That's surprising and welcome news, as Sammy said above it's often underrated and I always worry about the franchise so it's nice to see. As someone that really isn't into almost anything else from modern Sony studios (very lukewarm about modern GoW, it's "ok", actively hate most Naughty Dog, and I don't think I've ever been less interested in a game than Spiderman after being very disappointed by the first one, Horizon, and maybe GoT are kind of the whole show of the modern Sony stable, excluding VR for me), Glad to see it's not really performing as a "lesser" series!

Probably about the same as that complete failure, Days Gone /s

@naruball @RudeAnimat0r I don’t even recall a bundle so it is a fair point if the game was bundled with each console sold. It’s why few games can compete w/ Wii Sports 82mil. 😝

https://www.ign.com/articles/best-selling-video-games-of-all-time-grand-theft-auto-minecraft-tetris

Were they selling the console for $500 or $570? @thefourfoldroot1 thinks each copy of the game was sold for $70 but I would think a lot of PS4 owners bought it for $60, as probably did some PS5 owners. I bought the PS4 version digitally for $30 around Black Friday. If Pushsquare is claiming this is 1 of the biggest selling PS5 games I’d really like to see the breakout between 4 and 5 versions. 🤷🏻‍♂️

In before someone calls you an Xbox fanboi @NEStalgia 😂

@Voltan @rjejr
True, when I said 500+ I deliberately dropped a load from the calculation (£88 million in fact) for things like people buying it digitally and / or on sale, and I guess slightly cheaper on PS4 too, but also didn’t consider the more expensive collectors versions they sold.

@Voltan VAT and such is irrelevant though as I’m talking about pure revenue not profits.

Good. Well done JK Rowlings for creating such a great universe.

@Texan_Survivor why? Sales of Horizon don't go up in proportion with sales of consoles. I bet every console manufacturer would love that!

Hot take: Forbidden West is one of the jankiest-feeling releases Sony has had for a generation or 2..

Had FW been the first in the series, the IP goes down like Days Gone, garnering a much smaller (but loyal) fanbase and spawns no sequels.

This game is just not as fun to play as the original. Over-thought systems aplenty, ineffective core systems, and so much lack of clarity/good design decision-making that the game has to have a million toggles and settings to let players make the game enjoyable for themselves (instead of just, you know, designing a good-feeling game).

Loved the first game. Platinumed it. Couldn't wait to get to FW. But 17-18 hours in and it's just a brute force struggle to work through. So far, this gen, I think it's the second weakest in their lineup, only to Destruction AllStars.

@RonnieL lol, nothing. I wrote that in totally the wrong article 😄😄

Sorry i found horizon forbidden west to be a massive disappointment

6.5/10

zero dawn was so much better 9/10

@trev666 I agree. ZD was amazing. I couldn’t stop thinking about the story for weeks after. FW left me cold.

@Texan_Survivor that's a weird comparison. It's not like all those ps4 consoles are actually active. If sales of new games are any indication, most ps4 owners have either moved on to other things or don't care about new games.

Going by the 1 dollar per 1 hour mentality I have when buying games I definitely got my money's worth H: FW. None of it felt like I was just completing a checklist either, I actually wanted to explore the world and see every nook and cranny. Great game.

@rjejr no, I mean the game was heavily bundled, but it's one thing to acknowledge that and another to say that it wouldn't have sold well at all without the bundle, as many had been telling us week after week when the game was performing well. The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle.

Fantastic. Love the game, cant wait for more!

@Texan_Survivor @naruball When you look at the total sales of all the big Sony first party games combined, and factor in that a lot of the sales are repeat sales for the different games by the same market, the portion of PS console owners that actually buy PS 1st party games is actually pretty small. Statistically, most people that buy a PS don't actually buy 1st party games. PS4 is still doing well, but I think that market segment that buys 1st party games is also the early adopter segment that also buys the new hardware to play them on. Low sales of the cross gen first party games on PS4 really surprised me.

It really is hard to tell how significantly the bundle impacted it though . Considering much of the time the console was impossible to find and in high demand and the game purchase was mandatory, it's a little frightening to think where sales would have been without the mandatory purchase, but also unclear how many would have bought the game anyway as it was the biggest release in that time.

@MFTWrecks @trev666 You guys are making me nervous, I adore ZD, and really enjoyed CotM, I was saving HFW for the DLC, and then had to push it back behind TotK, so I haven't started it yet. I'm hoping I'll like it more than you're making it sound!

@riceNpea George Lucas' Ninja Turtles is such a timeless IP!

@grapetrap "the other one copied Breath of the Wild but made it scary and hard."

I loled at that!

@rjejr Sad, but true, on the console war front lines, not hating the "other side" is the same as being a "collaborator" lol

Except in the Nintendo fandom where liking either PS or XB just gets you a sideeye like "what's wrong with you?"

@MrMeeeseeeks it also depends on how long it took Day's Gone to get there and at what price. Also, the mediocre reviews didn't help.

It's been boxed in with PS5's for ages. Same reason Wii Sports is one of the best selling games of all time.
I really wish there was a way to exclude boxed in sales from these figures as personally, I don't feel like it tells me much.

@NEStalgia yup. I think you're spot on.

Also, people have gotten used to some Sony first party games pulling strong numbers lately and forget that even huge games like God of War 1 and 2 on ps2 didn't perform all that well. (With the exception of Gran Turismo, I think) It wasn't until ps3 with games like God of War 3, Uncharted 2, and The Last of Us that first party games started selling impressive numbers (and still nowhere near as well as games that the average person is playing, like COD, FIFA, and GTA). If you think about all the first party games that have been released, even on ps5 alone, Forbidden West's numbers are nothing short of impressive.

I'm actually a little shocked that sales aren't higher considering this is likely counting the millions of pack-in copies of the game that you couldn't avoid for a while.

But whatever excuse they need to justify more Horizon, I suppose.

Cool.word up son

@tameshiyaku This! I really like the gameplay (played both games) but Aloy has to be the most boring character ever written.

Wasn’t this bundled in with PS5s though?

@thefourfoldroot1 Imagine how hard it must be to figure out how much money a game made when it's day 1 on Gamepass? Probably not worth it to even try and have these conversations, or do the math.

For me, I only buy Nintendo games day 1 these days, the rest I wait for 1/2 price sales, usually takes about 6 months to a year, or PS+ for the indies. Unless I have a lot of credit. I think I went thru about $150 of PSN credit for my PS credit card. I know it's real money for them, but it reals almost "free" to me. 😁

@naruball I think it would have sold well w/o the bundle, and I also think there are plenty of people at GG and Sony who know EXACTLY how many copies were sold bundled, on PS5, on PS4 and Collectors editions (which I always forget about as well). So we could know the truth, if they wanted us to know, but the truth is rarely told. Truth is probably harder to spin.

@rjejr but it's hard to tell how many wanted to get the console and were forced to get the game as well and how many were planing on buying the game but didn't because it came with the console. So, I think there would be no point to Sony releasing these numbers. Some would just use them as ammunition in their silly war against the game when reality is more nuanced.

Happy to see the game has such healthy numbers. Horizon is my favourite PS franchise (note I only got in with the PS5) so seeing a confirmation that it's doing well is nice to see.
Looking forward to seeing what Guerilla and Sony will do next to grow the brand.

@rjejr
Yeah, I think they are just happy with a lower amount that’s guaranteed in Gamepass, especially if it’s a small dev, then they can just throw in a load of MTs to hopefully make a load more…

I don’t buy full price games because I have so much I haven’t got time to play that I always have something on sale or that I can pick up second hand. I just got Ishin from CEX for £42 credit. I’ll get a couple of hundred hours entertainment then return it to get most of that back. But it’s still the most I’ll likely spend net on a game ever. Unless it’s VR2, for that I want to support Sony and the smaller market.

Until Spiderman 2 comes out

Some will say they don't like Horizon much (which is fine of course) and then followed by prefer Killzone or want another Killzone instead. Now if you compare all of Killzone games sales combined, it doesn't have a leg to stand on in comparison to HZD or HFW total sales numbers, there's your answer. Really enjoyed all Killzones by the way but not as much as Aloys adventures. Should go without saying each to their own

@thefourfoldroot1 I feel like at some point MS has to follow PS+ on Gamepass. Gamepass for old indie games, like PS+ Ess, and "Gamepass Day 1" (b/c I like that name that just popped into my head) for the new Series games. That point is not now though as Xbox Series X/S launched 2 years ago and it's still little more than an Xbox 1 Pro, w/ few exclusives, so I'm not sure anyone would be willing to pay for the higher tier. But I can see it coming once they line up some new next gen games. Or the deal somehow goes thru. New tier will probably be called Gamepass+ though b/c everyone is stupid. 😝

@naruball Well reality is nuanced, but if we had the actual numbers we could at least have actual discussions about the actual numbers, rather than arguments about made up numbers. 😂

You are right about never knowing. I do bet 82 million people would not have purchased Wii Sports had it not been bundled though. May have sold 50, but 50 isn't 80.

This HFW number looks fair to me based on the HFW number, so we are all probably just spinning our wheels. 🤷‍♂️

Forbidden West was definitely the game to buy for anyone who purchased a PS5 in 2022. I like the direction the game took the series. Its not the instant classic the 1st one was, but its a solid 8/10 for me.

Making Aloy gay was a sap in the face for your customer base.I have nothing against anyone life choices but the majority of Sony gamers are young males and they want a bad ass game female character for their fantasies. Ellie in the last of us is also gay so the biggest female heroes don't like men which is not what the majority of your customer base wants, too much woke agendas so I vote with my wallet didn't buy the DLC and not interested in the next game.

@Aimergamer Let's be real: if you had nothing against peoples' life choices, you wouldn't have made this post in the first place.

@Aimergamer
Rubbish. Men love lesbians!
Seriously though, nobody was playing as Aloy and thinking they want to have a go on her. Who even thinks like that when you inhabit a character? There is a cause for saying playing as a character puts one in their position, hence why male characters tend to be buff and chiselled and, at least until recently, female characters tended to be hot, because that’s what we all want to be, it’s a power fantasy, but I’ve never wanted a female character to be sexually available to me. Because they are FICTIONAL! Now admittedly if I’m looking at the back of a woman for 100 hours I’d like that backside to be attractive, but that’s as far as it would go. To not be interested in a game because the fictional female character is unavailable to you sexually (even though you say you find her attractive to look at) is just creepy man.

@NEStalgia I have never - and I mean never - fought so hard to "find the fun" in a big AAA release.

It is, on one hand, commendable that they went and offer so many usability and gameplay tweaks for players. But on the other hand, it's also truly damning that they couldn't just create something uniformly enjoyable.

Know what I tweaked in the first Horizon? Not a damn thing. Know what I tweaked in the GoW games? Resolution (and a single difficulty choice). Days Gone? Nothing.

Know what I tweaked in HFW (besides resolution)? Difficulty at like half a dozen or more different levels (down to enemy health, my health, how certain combat bits operate and behave), how looting works (a few choices), how hard my aim assist works, how and when climb holds are displayed, how certain animations play (or don't)... Sure, it's great that their exhaustive options. But having to use them to make the game feel as enjoyable as the first is - truly - exhausting.

They just went and changed waaaaay too much. And it's STILL not as fun in combat scenarios. They basically tweaked melee and ranged combat and in a LOT of scenarios, you're more or less punished for choosing the "wrong" type of combat. Wanna stagger or knockdown creatures with melee? Waaaaaaaay harder than the first game. You fight monsters with ranged combat. That's more or less what the game dictates. Fighting humans? Better close the gap and use melee, 'cause outside of headshots, ranged is far less useful against human enemies. They try and dictate the combat flow way more than in the first one and it's annoying. Let me play how I want to play! (And damn near every enemy has SO MANY bits and bobs of armor to knock off you have to chip away at their dozens of pieces before you can TRULY get a solid hit in and do some damage. You think you have a clear shot to a good meaty chunk of monster "flesh" and your arrow flies to target but NOPE. There was actually a tiny miniscule piece of removable armor there you couldn't see so all your damage actually got dealt to THAT, which is now gone. But good luck landing that now-open shot to TRULY hurt the monster.)

And in the end? IT'S still janky af. Climbing is a friggin' CHORE compared to, say, the recent AC games or Immortals or Zelda. I can't tell you how many times Aloy will simply not move 6 inches to climb to something THAT IS HIGHLIGHTED TO ALLOW HER TO CLIMB THERE. Or how many times she gets stuck on a surface and just... won't move 2 feet forward.

She moves like Niko from GTAIV. Just an absolute dump truck who gets held up on so so so many bits and pieces in the world. The game lacks a good, smooth feeling.

I literally have no clue how it scored as well as it did. It is a MASSIVE step backward, imo. (Is it gorgeous? Undoubtedly. But graphics alone can't carry a game. Especially not a sequel to such a classic.)

I'm brute forcing it because I bought it and I don't want to waste my money. But I am absolutely mainlining the platinum and not bothering with the massive amount of map bloat. Forget the dozens upon dozens of ?s pocking the map. I am moving mission to mission and only doing required side content to get the plat and GTFO.

They may very well have soured me on the entire IP. It is that disappointing to me.

@MFTWrecks I don’t really get your complaint about the armor pieces on machines. You can highlight every removable piece on a machine with your focus, and even tag the parts if you want to keep them highlighted during the whole combat encounters.

So whether or not you hit the detachable parts, or miss and instead hit their armor, comes down to your ability with aiming.

There’s a ton of different playstyles in Forbidden West depending on how you want to play. I always go for melee up close with a long range bow for sniping. My wife in contrast loves to set traps and tripwires to take things down.

The skill trees in Forbidden West open up the possibilities for a bunch of different styles to approach combat situations.

I just love the combat loop in this game and the new abilities added with Burning Shores makes it even better. It's so much fun just wandering around and discovering stuff. Best way to play these games are to ignore the map, turn off the markers and you'll have an amazing experience, and if your like me you'll constantly jump into photo mode and lengthen that playtime even more!

@MFTWrecks I would laugh or think you're making up all those options, but having played CotM, it's not AS extensive (or anywhere close) but I definitely can relate to that experience with tuning tons of settings to make the game right. VR may be more fiddly with personal settings, but why would having the camera auto-rotate while you're hanging onto a ledge not be the default?

That definitely differs from what I've heard so much about (including debates about combat being so much better), but it's also telling because you seem to revere the original as much as I do, so I fear my experience may be more like yours than I'd hope. It's pretty much the last 1st party IP that they actively product that I care about, so I'm hoping my experience goes better.... I'll say I loved CotM despite criticism, so I'm not quite giving up yet!

@thefourfoldroot1 @SgtTruth Not really in on the conversation but you both bring up a point that cynical me quietly thinks about every time that topic comes up and everyone rages about representation vs hate etc etc. The pure cynical view on this is it's about money. Games with female protags just sell less than games with male protags, no exceptions. This solution lets them both virtue signal for inclusion, plus virtue signal for women, while also pleasing male players with a more "masculine" hero to inhabit then a feminine heroine, and also lets straight male players "get the hot girl" in the end because games have now copied hollywood and require romance in a game about living in the jungle fighting robot dinosaurs with a pointy stick.

If they gave player CHOICE in how that turns out, though it would be a far better solution, but if they're not willing to do that, if we trust expected market demographics here, let's be real, if the end of the game gave you the option of "Bonk Erend", "Bonk Seyka", "Bonk the Horus", 78% of the player base would choose Seyka no matter what, and most of that remaining 22% would simply be skewed by Japan which would universally choose the Horus. 🤣

@rjejr Can you tell me how much money Gamepass makes nobody can we don't know the prices those games on Gamepass are not for free for MS.

@Flaming_Kaiser @rjejr Just super quick back of napkin math, GP had 25M subs in 1/2022, and in the recent Q2 2023 they reported it hit all time high, but didn't provided a specific number. If we assume in almost a year and a half since the hard numbers with reports of continuous growth, it's up to 35M (which might actually be low-balling it, but we'll round it there.)

Now here it gets tricky, because don't know how many people are on stacked memberships, etc. But, if we just round that edge off and use only the PC Game Pass price (which is their biggest growth market) and ignore GPU (which is both their console members and their mobile members because Ultimate is required for streaming) which is $10/mo (meaning we ignore the $15/mo which actually would account for a substantial portion, as cloud is gated behind it), - so at 35M users at $10/mo which very rough numbers, that would be about $4.2bn/yr revenue. Are they spending $4.2bn/yr on games? Probably not. Could they be making more than that once factoring in GPU but also eliminating stacked subs? Maybe. But ballpark, at least give or take a billion that gives an estimate of the kind of numbers we'd be looking at. At 4.2bn it would allow for 21 Sony-level-budget AAA games per year just to break even.

Obviously it's much more complex, we're not looking into what the datacenter costs are, how much of that overlaps the rest of Azure, or what vehicles they might be moving that revenue through as a predictable unique trended revenue stream to hedge against to compound it.

But it still gives a little bit of a window as a round number to put perspective on how it operates and what kind of budget it can work with.

Still, GoW:R generated, what 1.2bn on its own so far? But it does put some perspective that revenues between the two models aren't as incomparable as it might appear sometimes.

@DeepSpace5D It IS down to aim, but it's ALSO about over-engineering the enemies. There are particular spots to aim for, but they are also commonly obscured by ridiculously tiny little bits and bobs absolutely everywhere. Can't tell you how many times I THINK I'm about to hit paydirt for at least a half decent chunk of damage (not talking about the core components, just the meaty bits of the monster) but lo! There's actually ANOTHER piece that needs to be broken off that just took all the damage, which means you don't actually do much.

They could have left the designs "lower quality" in terms of overall removable parts (but kept them visually stunning) and the gameplay would have been drastically improved. I personally don't need to chip half a dozen or more little worthless bits off (good aim or not) every encounter to feel like I'm doing something.

I want to hit the meaty bits and make ***** fall over. The first game let you do that. This one revels in watching sparks and pieces fly as though that's useful to the end goal of - you know - killing the damn monster.

I'm proud to have helped, bought the 2 main games and it DLCs. Horizon is one of the best recent game franchises in videogame history!

@NEStalgia Look up conversations about the combat (and also overall jank). There are plenty of people who do not believe the tweaks to the combat were for the better.

Long dodge/dive? Gone. Want to dodge a lot? Better pony up to upgrade a particular suit, otherwise you'll stumble after 3 leaps, leaving you vulnerable to attack. Going against enemies whose projectiles are homing rocks who can literally tweak direction mid-air to hit you as you land? Good luck facing more than one at a time.

Let me know how long it took you to climb something before you get stuck 6 inches from the peak and Alot just straight doesn't move upward to grab the ledge highlighted for her. I encountered it 3 times before I left the tutorial section. Or maybe when you get stuck perched somewhere because she decides she won't actually "leap" 2 feet forward off the ledge she's on to land on the literal only path forward.

I know I make it sound like this is the worst game ever. It's not. At all. It's just waaaaaaay more finicky than it gets called out for being. It's like everyone just stairs at the Decima Engine and doesn't give a ***** that a game that felt fluid and fresh now feels literal years behind its contemporaries.

It's like they changed a whole bunch of stuff that simply didn't need tweaking (climbing, dodging). Or changed stuff in ways that didn't positively effect the gameplay experience (dodging, melee vs ranged, monster design, encounter design). And then also introduced needless "upgrades" for the sake of it (the loot/upgrade system is just a chore; I feel the game would do well to scale back its upgrade mechanics and provide more meaningful upgrades a la a game like Metroid instead of chasing looter mechanics - this comes from someone who loves looters).

So as I stated, if this were the first entry in the series?? It doesn't become as revered as the IP is. It goes down as a cult favorite, maybe, but it does not spawn the sequels and expansions this is getting. Not by a long shot. I don't know when I last played a AAA game that felt truly this "off" in feel to me. (No, I have not played Redfall, lololol.)

HZD was much better. People celebrate mediocrity more now because there is nothing else to celebrate. Games as a whole are playing it too safe and are suffering because of it and are becoming stale where great IP's that need reviving more than these sequels are becoming a forgotten myth.

@MFTWrecks

Do you have certain machines that you have this issue with? I can’t say I shared this same issue or feeling when I was playing the game. And to my eyes, I don’t really see how what you’re describing is a change from Zero Dawn.

In Zero Dawn you also have to shoot off pieces of armor at times in order to expose parts of the machine that can lead to bigger amounts of damage.

For example in both Zero Dawn and Forbidden West, Snapmaws ( the crocodiles) have two elemental canisters on their heads near the shoulders that will explode if hit with a fire arrow. But in order to expose the elemental canister you sometimes have to remove the piece of armor covering them. Similarly in both games, one of the weak points of a Thunderjaw is that orange spot behind the shoulders. If you shoot in that spot it does like triple your normal damage, but before it can be exposed you have to shoot off a piece of armor to get to it.

It’s about learning how the machines differentiate from one another and exploiting their weak points. But I don’t really see how that mechanic changed much from Zero Dawn. There’s just a much greater variety of machines in Forbidden West that you have to figure out.

I personally appreciated the fact that every machine has a unique design to its parts. They all have different detachable sections that can remove some of their attacks in battle and do decent damage. And they pretty much all have elemental weaknesses you can take advantage of as well.

I never felt like I was just chipping away at armor pieces and doing barely any damage, even on my Ultra Hard playthrough.

I thought Sony's figures typically exclude bundled copies unless otherwise stated. At least that's how it used to be during PS4 if I remember correctly.

@FenIsMightier it's a single player game that sold extremely well. After people played it, they traded it off. Simple as that.

I've got to chuckle at the comments about how attractive/unattractive aloy is..she is a video game character. I thought she just looked a bit strange compared to how she looked in the first game. Very odd people see her as a sex symbol and creepy too..

@Dirk_Diggler what youre saying always just falls on deaf ears and its so sad.

Just goes to show that you don't need to make good games to succeed. In fact the more you try the financial risk increases. Consumers get scared.

I just completed Burning Shores at the weekend and the final boss sets a new bar in visual terms and i think points the way to what PS5 games, unshackled from previous gen limitations can offer. The series is not without its faults - combat can be extremely messy and the story and dialogue laden with turgid exposition rather than real character development but it frequently thrills.

@FenIsMightier how many short single player games have sold as well as God of War R has in such a short period of time?

"When I bought it (on a whim), the section was drowning in copies, whereas there were only one or two of things like The Last of Us Pt1 or GT7"

That's an unfair comparison. How much did The Last of Us Pt1 and Gt7 sell exactly and when did they come out? Also, GT7 is not a single player game that you beat in a few days. It's supposed to offer entertainment for months.

@Heavy_Artilery yup. It goes to show that if you, personally, don't like a game, that immediately makes it a bad one and everyone else's opinion doesn't matter. Cuz obvi, you know better.

@naruball The franchise and the franchises it shamelessly copies are so damn lame. All of the video game shortcuts are used. If you can't turn your brain off and just waste time from your life it's impossible to enjoy. The world is lame, the writing is lame, the combat is lame, there is no quest design to speak of.

@Heavy_Artilery brilliant. So all those gamers and critics who enjoyed it are wrong. Good to know.

Not really though, the thing was bundled with the PS5.

I wouldn't have bought it if it wasn't free...

@naruball gameplay loop was fun, it's just every single character, especially the main one was utterly insufferable.

If these are people we are aspiring to be, Skynet can't come quick enough.

@naruball Not wrong. Just easy to please and it lowers the bar too much.

@naruball I don't understand why PS+ and Play At Home redemptions are counted in the overall series sales figures.

@Flaming_Kaiser Don't ask me, I don't have Gamepass, an Xbox, nor do I game on PC, just Switch and PS5 are enough for me. 😁

@NEStalgia "what vehicles they might be moving that revenue through as a predictable unique trended revenue stream to hedge against to compound it."

Is that your way of saying tax fraud or tax write off? 🤷 My general basic understanding is that MS may have to raise the price of GP b/c it's still a money loser, and it could be for now, but MS ain't hurting for dough as long as they got Windows and Office so it's only money so what do they care.

But you do make it sound like they should be making money though. You would think all of those figures would have had to come out trying to buy ABK but what do I know? 😝

Never mind me. I’m just here to speak in platitudes and espouse my opinion like it’s fact. 😁 And don’t forget to read my comment in an angry tone.

On topic. Sad to say I’ve yet to even play Forbidden West as I do so love Zero Dawn. I’ll have to break away from other games before I can even try it. Good to see it succeeding though.

@rjejr LOL, not tax fraud or tax write off....just....advanced accounting. Which sounds like tax fraud, but that's not what I mean

The thing is, investors like stable, steady, predictable revenues. They actually like stable, steady, predictable revenues much more than they like big profits, if those profits come in bursts and are accompanied by bursts of losses. Given the choice of a lot of money, in a stable, trended stream, or a truckload of money, but in a single windfall punctuated by a sharp drop some other quarter, they'd take the former. It's more important to them to be able to predict the value of their holding in 3 years than it is to have a sudden spike (or maybe loss) on some big blockbuster in Q4. Even if it's lower profits. For investors, they prefer subs for that reason.

For the company it also means compounding the revenue via investment and other tools. Because the revenues are stable and predictable, they can move that money through other funds and tools, before it's received, basically, a loan to themselves from the future, much like futures trading for commodities, except they're their own security, and the trended data doesn't lie.

It's sounds complicated, it is complicated, but ultimately, it's really simple. In consumer terms, you'd feel much more able to borrow from your savings for an investment that should have a solid return if you're guaranteed certain income over the coming year to replenish it on schedule. If you're gig working and don't know if your next gig nets feast or famine or if that next gig will be delayed, you're probably going to sit on that savings rather than tie it up in some investment. Same thing, but with another 8 zeroes behind it.

Subscriptions offer stable, predictable revenue which for business reasons can be better even if less total profit what what may (or may not) be possible with a "big win" retail sale. Uncertainty is the worst position for business. Releasing Starfield and hoping it sells gangbusters is uncertain. Expecting the same sub revenue as every other month +/- 12% subs is reliable.

When you look at the total number of subs, the price of subs, and even lowball expectations to account for variables we don't have numbers on, there's no way it's not generating a ton of revenue that more than offsets the cost of operating. There may be a hit to potential profits, by not capitalizing on the biggest releases at retail margin, but the tradeoff is steady, predictable revenue, and low risk of almost anything.

@MFTWrecks @DeepSpace5D That's all really interesting. Somewhat worrying about how I'll get on with the sequel, but interesting that there's such different perception of the combat, in both cases from people who all love the first game. I"m kind of nervous how I'll get on with it now!

I was expecting to be half way through it by now, but between getting sucked into VR way more than I thought, then waiting for the DLC, then realizing it's right before Zelda, etc, etc, realistically I'm probably not going to start it now until Fall or Winter, I'm trying to save it for when I know I'll have a ton of time. I'm a little nervous about if I'll be disappointed now, but it sounds like there's also hope I won't be

I was loving Horizon: Zero Dawn when Forbidden West first launched. So jumped into Forbidden West once I finished Zero Dawn & was instantly disappointed to the point I stopped playing. I pre ordered Burning Shores so plan to have another go.

@NEStalgia OK, that all makes sense, but it still sounds like tax fraud. Well not tax fraud on the IRS, more like, tax fraud b/c only big businesses that don't really need the money can make money that way but the rest of us are screwed. Like how multibillionaire Zuckerberg who could pay cash for a whole lot of houses gets a 1% mortgage b/c the bank gives it to him but I have to pay 5% even though he can afford it and I can't. 🤑

If MS can make $ by buying companies that never seem to put out any games by getting everyone to subscribe to a game rental service well more power to them I guess. Might be past my bedtime, I'm rambling gibberish. 😂

@rjejr Yep, the sad way of it, it takes a lot of money to make money. The more you have the more you can make. On one hand it makes sense, on the other it's totally broken.

But yeah, in MS case it's less about doing something evil because their big, and more a case that they can do a thing that actually works well because they have the scale to make it workable.

@NEStalgia MS has scale, and $69BILLION to buy a company that makes video games, but they have no $ for their lower rung employees to get a yearly raise. Top tier will of course. 🤑

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/10/microsoft-skips-salary-increases-for-full-time-employees-this-year.html

@rjejr Sometimes they're their own worst enemy..

Though I do wonder if they were overdoing raises with hyperinflation in the past year or two and this is a correction year. But as inflation rises, that's basically a company-wide pay-cut. That's not going to go down well, but frankly with all the AI talk, frankly I think the public isn't worried enough yet. I think by the end of the decade most of us will be lucky to be bagging groceries for minimum wage, and will probably never buy a console again. The 2nd depression and 3rd WW are right around the corner I think.

@NEStalgia My kid graduates from college w/ a B.S. this weekend, it's RIT (not MIT) if you've heard of it, major in game design - so it's relevant to this article somehow I'm sure - minor in web design, bagging groceries would be a win.😝

Telling the people who code AI and the OS the world's computers run on that they aren't getting a raise this year b/c they got too much last year surely couldn't possibly lead to any unforeseen repercussions. 😂

@NEStalgia

I’d be curious to know your opinion on the sequel whenever you get around to playing it. Especially if you enjoyed Zero Dawn. It’s not a flawless sequel by any means, but I think it definitely improves on Zero Dawn in many ways, while also having issues of its own.

@DeepSpace5D It's good to hear both positive and negative opinions of it from others that really like ZD. I'm a bit more optimistic! I might not get to it until November, or Jan/Feb now though. It's a game that needs a huge block of time (I think spent 160 hours in ZD? Something like that, and I hear HFW is bigger...but I've been kind of addicted to NMS in VR and then tomorrow will start TotK, so I think I'm a ways off from really getting to HFW. Originally I intended to play i the past 3 months, but VR2 hooked me way more than I anticipated!

@rjejr Wow that really is a BS!

@colonelkilgore that is a myth. it's not even in the same audience as those those other games. if anything the ps5 shortage affected the sales if anything.

@bozz finally a zelda fan that likes horizon lol

@Sanquine no she isn't especially in the second game.

@middyone Imho she is still boring. let’s agree to disagree 😉

@Sanquine wild but alright. I find geralt boring

@middyone Seems to me your to much invested in Horizon looking at your comment history.

Witcher 3 quests trump Horizon by a mile (gameplay of Horizon trumps Witcher) Geralt is also a much better written character (also the romances with Triss and Jeniffer).

Aloy now the face of playstation

@Sanquine I don't have much time to be on here so when I do rarely comment...I comment in spurts. i'm invested in alot of things and so much for agree to disagree lol.

how so sir? you can't just say a baffling claim and don't back it up. aloy is objectively great written character in forbidden west as well if you don't get her or pay attention to her you wouldn't get that.