Sony: We're Not Just Creating 10 Live Service Destiny or Fortnite Games

They seem unwilling to realise that yeah, these are all different genres, but you're going to need to either start pulling people away from their current handful of choice, or do the impossible and make an additional one that people also somehow find time to play.

And when you make that many in such a short time? Most of them won't stick.

But if even one sticks, it's good money.

The more I hear about Sony doing live services and especially 10 of them the less I get interested. What a downgrade from the games we've gotten during the ps4 era.

I think people are going to be quite surprised when they learn what these 10 live service games actually are, because I'm willing to bet any money Ghost of Tsushima 2 is one of them.

It'll have the same huge single player campaign, but that Legends mode is going to be massively expanded in the sequel. Sony isn't just making 10 Battle Royale knockoffs. These are going to be fully-fledged games.

No interest in any live service games. I already have my own business, I don't need another job for my spare time

wonderful we're going back to the PS3 era where every game had to have a forced MP Part.

absolutely no interest. we all know how it ends anyway.

I don’t care the genre of game, if the aim is to keep me occupied in one world, at the expense of all others, by drip feeding me content (often removing or nullifying previous content) then I have zero interest. Especially as all added content lacks a trophy campaign or platinum challenge. The added likelihood that it’s multiplayer to some degree is also a big turnoff.

10 Live Service Games:

1. Naughty Dog -> Last of Us MP
2. Insomniac -> Unanounced MP project
3. Guerilla Games -> Horizon MP project
4. Haven -> MP project
5. Firewalk -> MP project
6. Deviation Games -> (probably) MP project
7. London Studios -> mix of fantays setting and real world MP project
8. Savage Studios -> mobile project
9. Firesprite -> (probably) unannounced MP project
10.???

There you have it guys. Your 10 Live service games the rest will be single player. And Got 2 wont be live service stop it you caramel flavoured biscuit.

My god how I hate GaaS with all my heart.

I tried Riders Republic the other day, and the UI and drip-feeding makes it so painful to play. Even games like Assassin's Creed Valhalla or Grid Legends have the same look : you don't simply play the game, you engage in a system that, at best, nudges every time to look at what you've opened up, to go through multiples menus and shops, to handle multiple currencies, follow daily and weekly repetitive objectives, gain access to miserable items, etc.

Just give us games we play, even multiplayer ones, not games we have to continue purchasing all while we partly play them.

Between GaaS, subscriptions and games launching before being ready, modern gaming is really going the wrong route, and I'm seriously questioning more and more the personal investment I'm ready to put in it.

Here comes the doom and gloom no one forcing you guys to play them or buy them wait for them come out before u case judgment

I'm really not into multiplayer games no matter what IP they are based on. Maybe this generation will change my mind but probably not.

I don't hate Live Service game on principle (a game like Apex Legends can provide hours of fun with friends) but I'll avoid the typical FOMO mechanics... you're really just wasting hours to earn some worthless in-game trinket at that point.

@C25CLOUD This argument doesn't make sense to me.

If these GaaS become the main income by a large margin of gaming companies, don't you think it will hurt good single player (and even non GaaS multiplayer) gaming in the long term?

Look at EA : Live services and other net bookings for the trailing twelve months were up 4% year-over-year and represent 75% of total net bookings.
At Ubisoft : Digital Net Bookings represent almost 85% of their total net bookings, with more than 50% being their back catalogue.
Blizzard Activision : In Game Net Bookings represent 74% of total Net Bookings

Do you generally like what these 3 big companies are
doing in the gaming space?

@Allfather No 10 is Astros Playroom MMORPG

@Allfather I wonder if firewall ultra counts. Also helldiver2 probably going to be one of them.

The only one i am really looking forward to is the upcoming Factions game. And how Naughty Dog have expanded it.
As an experienced Ex Destiny 2 player, the concern with bringing out so many live service games, is an average gamer has only a limited amount of hours in the day to play. So at most we may gravitate towards one live service out of the ten. Therefore there is a real risk that upto 9 of these could not get the expected playerbase and become the next Anthem or Avengers.
We all know live service games run the risk of this, so it would make us hesitant in taking the financial plunge initially. Sony will need to be very careful and clever in how they release these.

@get2sammyb I have considered that, I just don't believe it to be true. This is the BS these companies would have us believe (akin to "but these MTX are just cosmetics, so it's ok").

What are these fantastic single player EA games you're talking about?
Star Wars Jedi? We've seen the state in which the new game launched. And it's a franchise game, so income is expected.
Dead Space? A remake of a 15 year old game. Good yes, but no risk taken, smaller budget and production time, etc.

Last time I saw EA publish a single player game with a new IP was Lost in Random in 2021, and while very enjoyable, it didn't have an AAA game budget.

This would have been nice for them to clarify a couple years ago when they first announced the 10 live-service games in development. I guess we all assumed they were of differing genres but it would have calmed the collective anxiety if they made us aware how these games aren’t all what we envision as a typical GaaS (like Fortnite, Warzone, or Destiny).

I actually didn’t mind the live service elements of GT7. It was a one time purchase with free add-on content (which is still rolling now, long after I’ve lost interest to play it regularly) and the MTX were completely minor and unobtrusive.

Contrast that with Avengers which was absolutely offensive in how it shoved MTX in your face when you load the game and it felt like the SP campaign was actually hidden behind all the live service and online elements seeping with all the litany of MTX, various currencies, and a deluge of pop-up updates begging for money.

Sony seems to understand what it’s players will tolerate. I feel like we won’t get any egregious half baked pile of garbage like many of these GaaS seem to be. Although a few of those 10 will certainly fail miserably (see Dreams, Predator Hunting Grounds, etc) but they tend to get it right more often than wrong.

@Wheatly "I can't see how you are coming to that conclusion unless you have information the rest of us don't."

Followed by you coming to your own conclusion based on information you most certainly don't have. 😄

How many of these titles do we realistically expect to be free-to-play? I can't imagine all of them will be, and will console players accept the PS+ requirement for online when PC players can play for free and cross-platform no less? These are the questions I need answered.

Aye the PlayStation showcase will be interesting to see what these 10 services are gameplay wise. I'm interested in the Last of Us & Horizon. Do these studios have enough staff to keep pumping out content once it's live to keep gamers engaged? & If the game fails then what?

Hopefully they will also have offline modes so you can play split-screen against bots. The problem with live service games, if your internet is out, or the servers are closed you have a game that's worthless. For the free ones that's not such an issue, but it is if you payed 60-70 for it.

@Martijn87 At least I agree with this. If a company is going to focus on online gaming, then at least it should invest in AI enough to create viable bots, and it should also make local multiplayer a priority.
I should be able to play the game I bought offline, every mode of it, and that's it.

@Wheatly We have absolutely no information about any of these games mechanics and features. If you do, please point me in that direction so I can read about them.

Well... they can only wish they were.
In truth will they even manage a single one? Probably not.
Doesn't change the fact that it's a waste of resources. Most of these games, probably all will close 1 to 2 years after launch and will result in negative coverage.

Stick to what you're good at and sells consoles Sony. You got a huge backlog ripe for remakes and rebirths you are ignoring and would gain you lots of positive coverage and money.

The only “service game” that has ever caught my attention (and thousands of hours) has been FFXIV.

I can see a few IPs like Twisted Metal turning into somewhat original service games, but I don’t have any interest in any personally, and doubt they will end up making anything that will change that. I’m a weird one, though. I just hope this does not mean a reduction in ST output. This year is already looking barren for PS fans of Sony’s single player first party catalog, with only Spider-Man 2 potentially shipping this year.

@LiamCroft I have a hard time seeing any GAAS succeeding as “a feature” inside a Single player game. CoD and GTA get away with it, but those are gigantic IPs (and in the case of CoD one might argue campaign is only a minor mode in a primarily MP title).

For any GAAS to make it, it needs to be F2P. If they try to sell their GAAS, they won’t make it.

@Tharsman "This year is already looking barren for PS fans of Sony’s single player first party catalog, with only Spider-Man 2 potentially shipping this year."

True, first party isn't that strong this year, but at least they made sure to secure huge 3rd parties in FF16 and FF Rebirth. It could be worse, they could of had an entire year of no big AAA first party.

@Wheatly Your comment was immediately followed up by someone mentioning two games that have done exactly that, gaas with a quality single player campaign or element. How Sony's projects are being labelled is not a foregone conclusion on what they might contain when finished.

Is it beyond the realms of possibility, as Liam was speculating, that with all the resources and pedigree Sony has with some of their studios, some of them might be working on something as ambitious as either of those examples?

@Intr1n5ic don't forget Forspoken, HFW DLC, Granblue Fantasy Relink, Stellar Blade and possibly TLOU Factions.

Sony don't go a year without giving content to its fans.

I loathe the GaaS space. It's going to be a severely difficult sell for me to spend money on anything they release. The one that has a shot, is if they re-release Warhawk (PS3), but the only way I see myself buying it, is if they've added a single player campaign that doesn't require an online connection to play.

Why do I loathe GaaS? Because when some CEO somewhere decides they aren't making the money they were hoping on the title, all the massive fans of that specific game just wasted all their money. They'll have nothing to show for it as soon as that switch is flipped and the game goes offline. It'll be interesting to see the blowback when Fortnite finally has it's final day.

@Intr1n5ic really want first party games, not paid-for-exclusives.

Edit: also I did mention 2 games that offer service components on “single player games”, but those CoD campaigns are 8 hours tops, maybe 5 hours. They are not exactly large single player campaigns, and GTA is a single game, even the Rockstar felt compelled to split the online into a stand-alone product.

@Wheatly Diablo IV, Assassin’s Creed Valhalla, Hitman Trilogy, Monster Hunter etc etc. They all have full standalone games and also happen to follow the live service model of years of updates and dlc/expansions.

This is great. Why would someone play a copy of whatever if the original is still there.

Good thinking. They're on the right track!

@Nepp67

How ilogical can it be calling games you just don't prefer a downgrade?
So far sony has released only single player for 3 years.

@Tharsman So do I, but we just came off a year of 3 incredibly strong ones. It's impossible for that to always be the case.

For people getting confused, the definition of a live service game.

A live service game is a game that sees a constant stream of new content added post launch, and is purposefully designed to keep you playing years after launch.

A live service game doesn't mean it's an online multiplayer game, yes most are but there are some that are single player or have online elements that you can ignore such as No Man's Sky and Genshin Impact, even Animal Crossing is classed as live service game.

@Wheatly "a game can have love service elements"

Now you're talking! : )

Since GT Sport and Sport mode in GT7 and Fall Guys day one on Plus a few years ago, I've grown to like mp a little and has a tiny bit convinced me that I can get into gaas if some end up tickling my fancy, TLoU has a good chance of tickling me. A tight linear single player story or a well made open world campaign will always be my bread and butter but I'm not totally against this gaas approach just yet

I’ll wait and see what Sony are making before jumping to any conclusions. It might be some awesome games and it might not, so much depends on what the live service part on a game is. If its bad, I just wont play it. There are still games coming without ”live service” in them. Why make it more complicated than that.

Simple math:

Live service = Don't buy/play

I really don't see the GoT or GT7 model as what they're intending as "live service" and if they are, they're basically lying by omission to their investors by talking about these "live service" games at all. The whole point, particularly to investors, which is where this came out originally, is about the recurring microtransaction income. That's why the whole ABK lawsuit blew up, because of CoD's mtx. If the game isn't designed to maximize mtx it doesn't serve the purpose of a live service game. They can either appease consumers or investors on this matter, it's mutually exclusive. If they allay consumer fears by saying that a lot of this is really just GT7 type games not dependent on mtx, then investors will be livid they did not get the live service games they were expecting and the revenue to go with it. If they appease investors with mtx-generating attempts, then most here will not be happy with these games at all.

Though if GoT goes full Ubisoft into live service, and people praise it, I don't want to hear another bad word about anything Ubisoft on these forums.

It's all fine and good that these are different genres but....Avengers wasn't exactly a Fortnite ripoff. And they bought Bungie specifically for Destiny's service skill.....to then make games that aren't monetized like Destiny? Someone's playing loose with truths for all sides here.

@NEStalgia GT7 has tons of microtransactions

@ChrisDeku It does! And at launch it was very clearly designed around them. And it didn't go down well, and they finally dialed it back to the point that I mostly don't notice they're there anymore. I did finally sharply remember when I got to the "extra menus" and you have to buy a 1,000,000 car and that's about all I had, meaning grinding the 30-60 minute races and winning to get the cash. Which definitely put me off playing.

I’ve never been interested in live service games and never will be. Even though there’s a decent number of cool experiences in this genre, most of them are scams, quite simply. I miss the time where Playstation Studios was putting all its efforts in making great single player games. When you look at the most successful PS brands of the last few years, all of them got popular because they were fantastic solo cinematic experiences. All my non-gamers friends played Ghost of Tsushima, loved it, but none of them was interested in playing Legends or any mp version of it. Knowing so many good studios are exclusively dedicated to making live service games makes me so sad. How many of these studios could have produced long lasting solo games, instead of chasing cash ?

I'm probably in the minority, judging by this comment section that actually don't mind live service games depending how it's done, although 10 games and judging most of theses will be within couple years of eachother is a bit excessive.

If it was a free game with just a season pass model like fortnite, apex and alot of others with just cosmetics then I'm fine with that.

If it's a full price game and nothing is locked behind a pay wall but the continued support over multiple years with large expansions again I have no problem with that, I can play full game and be done with it or if I really like it I can continue basically what is just DLC over multiple years.

Twisted Metal actually has the potential to be a good live service multiplayer game.

"trust us our 10 Live service games are going to be unique and great"
LOL LMAO

@Stevemalkpus But it would be even better as a classic multiplayer (both local and online) focused game with a nice little single player campaign on the top, without any MTX or season passes, wouldn't it?

I guess we’ll see. For years now we’ve heard promises from the entire industry promising this or that and for the most part the games turned out mediocre at best.

Granted, we get some great ones every now and then.

I get the gaas criticism I truly do but I'll never understand the jumping on the band wagon of hate mentality for games that have not even been shown or tiny teased at all yet

@Ssimsim well i guess you can count me in to that equation as well. I'm not bothered by this genre. AC valhalla was only realy intrusive on the title screen and that was easily avoided. Path of exile was only really an issue in the town hubs and there are plenty of other titles that are great fun to play and dont incessantly get in your face once away from the title screen. Dont like them then dont buy into them its really that simple isnt it?

The new Twisted Metal game will be live service. They wont release the show without a game from this decade

I kinda do hope that Twisted Metal rumor is true as I’ve never really played a Twisted Metal game and I would love to see what they’re all about and why they’re so beloved.

I dont care what Hulst says. These games are not going to be what we have come to expect from Playstation and I for one will not buy anything that has a battle pass or seasonal content that continously wipes out game content. I have no interest in being trapped in one game for a fear of missing some seasonal content.

@Allfather People can fly are making a live service game for sony

@UltimateOtaku91 I want a game thats finished and when im done I can play something else its that simple.

I understand what they are u just don't want them.

Give me one anime like game and we r gravy or an arc the lad game that'd be nice

So Sony are going to continue to make zero games worth buying a PS5 for. Good to know I still don't need to buy one

What a waste.

While there is the AC games with tons of content and updates for singleplayer games as well as the multiplayer content update live services. For Sony that's Gran Turismo games currently then their others being finished, a DLC or two and a few updates, performance changes and tweaks then sequels and using those IPs consistently.

I'll get to Twisted Metal of old like I have Socom, MotorStorm and others over the years on PS1-3/PSP/Vita for cheap.

The GT Sport/7 (internet connection, free updates of cars and tracks that do or don't tie into the campaign which for Sport did (like GT5&6 of online multiplayer content then), awkward handling of content then past games).

Destruction Allstars (being a sign of oh Fortnite looking inspired art and vehicular combat a niche genre with that look did they even think how bad an idea of sell that was and how audiences aren't going to care about that even if a fair attempt (Lucid know better they maybe besides Playground had Bizzare Creations staff do they forget Blur was a thing and no one but a cult audience cares about it)).

WipEout Rush on mobile a Gran Turismo or racing F1/Football manager game who asked for this not WipEout fans. We got Omega Collection were happy clearly ending there or playing the old ones not some eh mobile spin-off. Why wouldn't I just play Gran Turismo B spec in GT4, 5 or 6 instead or like I said the other manager games.

Fate GO is Fate and gacha enough said.

Destiny I guess with them assisting Bungie and whatever their new studio is of staff from Bungie.

I get Sony wants money and they have their regular lineup for gamers and otherwise. As well as a cinematic games (the odd not to the side). Their backwards compatibility is for their fans and a small audience like collectors to 'look good' or was for the launch when there wasn't games as much or because whatever else. Their PS+ is there for wider appeal of old and new games whenever they choose to put first parties is up to them of course.

Now the remasters come in for those that are casuals. You want Last of Us Part 1 for full price (Horizon Remaster) don't watch I watched an idiot casual buy it. Saw the old one and went nah. So why bother having deals if casuals don't care. They don't care oh it has accessibility settings, this changes to gameplay or graphics.

If it's new they buy it because they are dumb. Non-gamers or casuals they are going to let Sony do remasters. They get attached or are new to it as if never hearing about it years ago like us in the know because people do that unless it gets big enough or a TV show. So BC is for gamers that care and the rest is casuals/newcomers to gaming.

Live services for money. Constant updates. That one title they can live off forever for some reason then party games to pop in and play. Because reasons. Because why not multiple games but that's what gamers do is buy multiple not 1 and stay with it forever.

As much as I don't care for Playlink they were better approaches then live services were but they are in bargain bins now so time to try another idea I guess then EyeToy, PS Eye and Playlink among other casual friendly game attempts (party games with a smartphone on PS4 so multi screen gaming with a smartphone for party games like Uno by Ubisoft I assume Just Dance also maybe counts or it's a Just Dance app or whatever like the Smartscreen and other apps of early Xbox One or late 360/PS3 or whatever, Hidden Agenda by Until Dawn and others developer, Frantics, Singstar remember that on PS2 & 3 and others clearly many by Studio London or other studios).

They aren't advertising aimlessly but they have multiple ideas for each audience that's for sure. If they plan on other genres sure whether a shooter, whether an action adventure game, puzzle game like Tetris 99 or whatever. They clearly have many attempts they will try but eh. It's just sad.

I don't get as excited for the big games as everyone else (I seek their more niche titles personally) that a PS fan does but sometimes I wonder why I liked their old IPs more, not because oh they are cheap now or nostalgia and I missed out on some so I can't have nostalgia for games and IPs I never played, but because of the quality and personality in the products of the past, the game design differences of then to now, how replayable and fresh each way I play them is of Gran Turismo or Ratchet as ones I'm familiar with and do have deep understanding of as did play all of them and own many of them years ago and still do to know them inside and out their key core features and structure and what worked well with them, what didn't, what was my likes and hates what are other fans.

I find the old IPs execution more entertaining personally and I felt I got a complete product back then. Cheats or not as a bonus. Execution of experimental gameplay ideas and variety of genres too so I never got bored seeing a third person camera, open worlds with their own spin on things, survival horror, a hack n slash similar to Ryse Son of Rome or Hellblade and more. Or games throwing nostalgia marketing like GT7, yeah the trailers were one thing the execution in the product was another so why BS marketing. Why pander with characters Insomniac with Ratchet games. Why?

I wish all developers would stop chasing trends. In other news, please support my upcoming indie game. It's a souls-like, rogue-like, metroidvania-style multiplayer looter-shooter.

@Nepp67 that's such a weird viewpoint given that those games don't make up their ENTIRE gaming library. You're right though, perhaps Sony should ignore the most profitable genre of gaming especially once you factor in rising development costs. You guys should be happy that they're aiming to create more avenues to create more revenue. More revenue, more games...don't see a problem.

@Kidfried They are not. They are just great games with very high replay value. None of them have micro-transactions nor are designed to keep players. They are designed to be fun.

In fact, Nintendo has even announced that it has ended support for Animal Crossing back in November 2021.

This is what happens when you make quality games that are almost bug-free. They have more longevity as live service games.

@Kidfried According to your logic that as long as a game gets patches and updates, it is a live service game. What games are NOT live service nowadays?

If every single game out there is live service, what's the point of creating this category? Why would Sony announce the split of 60/40 live service vs traditional games if every single game nowadays is live service?

Edit: Typo.

Looter shooter live service exosuit abilities flying but done right if done right with end game ill give you my wallet fill the hole we all need filling