Devs Allegedly Pondering the Point of Sony's PS5 Pro Upgrade

My sentiments exactly. How are you going to sell me on a PS5 Pro when we just left the PS4 / PS5 cross platform era and it seems the base PS5 hasn't been fully tapped into yet.

If Sony had dumped PS4 for its new game releases three years ago I could see the argument. They chose not to abandon the PS4 install base which is fine but it hurt the value proposition of a pro model right now.

When the PS4 Pro came out, the base model's limits had been well and truly reached and a Pro made sense. Unfortunately, PS5 was held back by PS4 parity so Sony could tap into that extra install base, and it just hasn't had a chance to grow at the same rate as a result.

What is funny is the implication of asking for a ps6 instead when they already said they haven't done the best they can with the ps5 lol.

Pro will be there to sell hardware to people who may want to buy it, just like the portal. Nothing more, nothing less.

Don't most games have a performance mode and a quality mode? Maybe the pro version might be able run both modes at same time, with a high performance and better quality?

Tho yeah I think they should skip pro, if we get next gen consoles by 2 or 3 years. But if it's after 4 years, then it might be ok to release now.

I bought PS4 Pro on day one. Extremely liked the upgrade. I will definitely do the same with PS5 Pro. PSSR is a game changer. Bring it on Sony.

@gymratAmarillo

Yeah agree, I feel like this guy in the article is right on the money - the PS5 Pro will be extremely niche and lack the wider appeal of the PS4 Pro. They need more software that pushes the hardware further to make a refresh make sense.

The last three year period was a chance for Sony to make a strong case for a Pro model. In my opinion, they failed (so far). First party software that pushes the system just isn't getting out fast enough or in the quantity needed to sell me on why I need this.

My gut feeling was that the PS5 wasn't used optimally - interesting to hear from a reporter that some people in the industry may think the same.

Leaks have confirmed that a totally unnecessary mid-cycle refresh with a minimum of extra juice is already coming. This is maybe just further buffoonery from SONY who have been carefully ***** up their decisions for several years now at least to my liking. I stopped buying games all together and unsubscribed plus, although it is also because of a rock solid backlog. It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

Many devs may not feel like they're making the most of the PS5, but at the same time they're often running performance modes at 1080p, or trying to get away with even worse internal resolutions and letting FSR make up the difference, which it is entirely unsuited to, leading to games with very poor image quality.

So which is it? Either you've still got headroom and your games should really be running better than that, or you need additional GPU power which the Pro would provide (especially in terms of image quality).

All those 30 fps in quality mode games says otherwise

I am not feeling I'm getting the best out of my PS5 yet.
Most games have no physics or worse physics than PS3 games. Pretty much all of them actually.
Lack remotely smart NPC's, lack immersion, lack interaction with the world (desert games don't have sand physics. They don't react to your footsteps, etc.), I can go on.

At this point, I'd be amazed if an openworld game has the physics and world interaction of something like GTA IV.
So no, the Pro ain't fixing goddamn shiiit. I'm not making the mistake of upgrading again. Sony needs to offer games that actually meets the hardware first.

I see many people getting excited about the PS5 Pro, thinking this is what will change the game. This will bring brand new experiences and push graphics to a whole new level.

I think many are forgetting that Devs will still have to target the base PS5 and that will limit the scope. Yes the Pro will probably manage higher resolutions and in some cases better frame rates. And if you are someone who cares a lot about that then that’s great. The Pro will be the device for you.

But don’t expect a lot more. Even some games that have performance issues today, like Dragons Dogma 2, won’t offer that much of an improvement as the framerate issues of DD2 are CPU related and from what we know, the CPU of the Pro is practically the same one of the base PS5.

Considering it will probably cost somewhere around $700, I just don’t see the value. Especially as I only managed to get my PS5 last summer.

@TheStormGL I don't know where those people are that are expecting brand new experiences on the Pro. I've literally not found a single person who said that.

Most are sensible enough to see it for what it is: a box designed to provide better image quality and performance in most games. Nothing more, nothing less.

I understand all the uncertainty tied to this matter, but as a gamer I'm ready for a PS5pro.

The same could have been said about the ps4 pro but people favored a different narrative. Games looked fine on a ps4, but looked better on a ps4pro. Ultimately the games played the same and the differences where understated by people without a pro and overstated by people who had one. Anyway if there was enough untapped performance people would not boost about their master race pc, if higher resolution would not be relevant people would not count pixels and complain about blurry visuals, count blades of grass, marvel about slightly more realistic reflections because of more raytracing. Anyway I have the impression that the case is pretty much as strong as the case for a ps4pro was. But somehow people have decided to follow MS' narrative that there is no need for a mid gen refresh. In the end some people will want this extra bit of power and most people won't care similar to the ps4 refresh. Though the economic situation is different, so I guess less people will give in.

Anyway choice is good, and the mid gen refresh worked out for the ps4, so it will for the ps5. And since now more and more devs lean towards ps5 versions only, the games will still be crafted for essentially two systems.

I'm torn on it after being completely disappointed in the PS4 Pro.

The only good thing I can see is that we may start getting some actual PS5 exclusives and the PS4 can finally be left where it belongs....... in the past

It's a pass from me. I got the PS4 Pro but only because my youngest poured a drink over my PS4 so I was buying a new console anyway. I've no interest in a mid gen update. I'll just ride it out and wait for the PS6.

Yet games are still running at 30fps or barely running at all.

Surely this upgrade will only help chances of better performance.

I’ll be getting it day one. I can’t wait.

@Specky I hear you. The grass in Rebirth doesn't even know you're walking through it or the that the wind is blowing but RDR2 did. The snow reacts just as you'd expect it to.

Is DD2 an example of a game that could use a PS5 Pro? Or an example of a bad dev who hasn't optimised their game correctly?

@Jacko11 the ps5 pro won’t change much if developers doesn’t optimize they’re games properly which they not doing right now with the base ps5.

Less pointless than series s

@Ainu20 This exactly, as long as they can't run games on quality mode on 60 fps stfu.

It's for me. Now I can enjoy Dragon's Dogma at 60fps. We won't have to play foggy performance mode anymore.

I am a simple man. I see more power, I buy.

@Skyfall no you won’t dd2 doesn’t even run at a consistent 60 frames per second on beast pc’s, what makes you think it will be able to run 60 fps on a far weaker ps5 pro.

So I know people have short memories but I remember when devs and fans hated the concept of the PS4 Pro. It came out and was well liked by those who owned it. It never replaced the Base PS4 but its sales still beat expectations.

People questioned the purpose of the PS Portal yet here it is still beating expectations in fact beating the EDGE controller in Dollar sales last month in USA.

These are meant to cater to those who really care about getting the best performance in their games and if you played Alan Wake 2 or now DD2 or Jedi Survivor or FFXVI or FFVII Rebirth (with its PS2 textures as per some in the comments on this site have said) you'd understand that we are already hitting performance limits.

The only hardware that has truly suffered this gen is VR2 and I generally think VR as a whole is in a rut. For every HL Alyx or Asgard's Wrath or RE or Astrobot there are 10 nonsense games.

@Skyfall Bless you think a PS5 Pro can run DD2 at 60fps when 4090's are struggling to even reach 60fps.

Then why are 99% of games rendering perf mode on 1440 or 1080 and again not fully 60p fps? If ps5 is enough then coders are to blame.

I will rather wait and buy the next Xbox series upgrade because Microsoft bought Bethesda and Activision so all the AAA exclusives will be there.

So Sony charges £600-£700 for the Pro, barely anyone buys it and so Devs don't focus on it due to being no market in Pro players. Remember how Series X is currently the most powerful console? Outside of Forza nothing has taking avantage of that power because they have to consider Series S players, a PS5 Pro is a waste of time and money just like the PS4 Pro was.

So now developers will be targeting PS4, PS5 and PS5 Pro and there will still be no 60fps Bloodborne.

@MomsSpaghetti The two best looking games last year were 3rd party games.

So we are having games with performance issues left and right and devs don't know what the Pro is for?

I guess Sony have lots of free space in their warehouse for the PS5 Pro's to be stacked up next to the PS VR 2's!

@Shepherd_Tallon 😂 Thanks, my kid started waking me up during the night so I need to release the stress

For or against midgen refresh consoles like the Pro, I don't really care, but WHY is noone ever complaining if Xbox or Nintendo does them? This anti Sony propaganda was boring 10 years ago, now it's just ridiculous imho.
Edit: if you don't like 'em, don't buy them. That show them (or not). Complaining for something you never intended to buy to begin with is just sad...

@AFCC The problem is not hardware related. Is dev time. Bad coding (very generic btw). e.g. UE 5 is still not finished. And if you pay attention, the games that don't run great on consoles, also don't run very well on a mid pc, that is theoretically better than the consoles... So even if you spend 2000 euros or more on a pc, you will not run some games very well... And that, in my opinion, is even worse, than the 500 euros price of the ps5.

I know I'm not in the group that is interested in a Pro. Don't get me wrong I don't mind it existing and if you can afford it great but it does feel a little pointless to me at least. Dragons Dogma 2 is really the only game I can think of that has struggled to run and that has more to do with poor optimization/ambition than not powerful enough hardware. Heck it struggles to run great even on the most powerful PC rigs.

I know some folks will point out FF7 Rebirth and FF16 but I found performance mode completely acceptable on both myself. Then we have the devs themselves saying they aren't exactly excited for the thing... and the price point is at least going to be $600 if not more...

Just not seeing a positive outcome but at least it sounds like Sony isn't expecting it to be more than a very niche product so at least they have proper expectations for the unit.

My PS5 is barely getting used due to the lack of platform exclusives. My PS4 Pro is getting used far more often (more comfortable controllers, actual rumble rather than random buzzing, etc.)

Thing is, the PS4 Pro had a point - 4K TVs - and thereby running at 4K checkerboard and the ability to super-sample back to 1080p, reducing jaggies, etc.

Apparently the 'base' PS5 has the ability to output 8K visuals (no-one has an 8K TV so it's pointless) but it appears to be struggling to outpace its dad half the time with 4K checkerboard at 30fps?
Does this mean the PS5 is underpowered? Probably not but it doesn't seem to be as much of a quantum leap as we'd hoped for.
Is there a case for a Pro? Not really, though it could be argued is that the Pro is the PS5 we should've got in the first place if it gives us a significant update over the PS4 Pro.

Won't be for me, I've bought the PS5, thats as far as I go for spending this gen (with Sony) for hardware. I'll keep my money for a PS6 or finally flit fully to PC.

As much as I love gaming and have have enough to spend on picking up consoles, I draw the line at dropping a load of cash on a mid gen refresh.

Many feel they’re not really making the most out of the PS5 in the first place
If that's a joke, it lacks salt...

Let me be blunt here.
PS5 Pro needs to exist because many third party devs and publishers are a bunch of lazies when it comes to optimizations, plain and simple.

For ef's sake look at Dragon's Dogma 2 that just launched, it can barely keep 30fps on PS5.
And that's just one more ball added to the existing chain of titles, that started when A plague tale : Requiem launched on PS5 more than 1 year ago, and did the exact same...

Keep in mind that we're looking at at least 3-4 more years until PS6 launches.
What's gonna happen on future PS5 titles launching until then, we're gonna be playing them at 20fps ?

At least on PS5 Pro they include more upscaling tech with PSSR to (hopefully) help reach 60fps.
I know some (many?) don't give a damn if a game runs at 30fps, but I for one am avoiding getting third party titles on my PS5 for this very reason, and getting them instead on PC to at least play at 60fps - for my eyes it's a night and day difference between the 2 values....

I don't think Sony ever expected it to sell gang busters, Sony like to provide options for its fans even if they are niche like the PSVR2 and Portal and the PRO will be in that category as well as an option for those that want it. This is one of the things I like a lot about Sony that they aren't scared of providing more ways to play even if they know they won't sell millions, it's just nice having options.

Show off some games that take advantage of a PS5 Pro and I’ll consider it. Until then, I’m perfectly happy with the base PS5.

Maybe devs should work on optimising there games

@UnlimitedSevens Difference was last-gen that PS3 couldn't go cross-gen due to the Cell. There were a lot of ports/remasters tho. And let's be honest for once, the first half of PS4 was basically called Indiestation 4 for a reason.

Regarding PS5 Pro it depends on the software output. 1st party will take advantage definitely, but regarding expectations would gladly have fidelity mode at 60 (and on top of that ray-tracing?) whenever possible.

At last the devs get it as well, what happened to really tapping into the power of these systems. The Megadrive is still being maxed out to this day. Checkout Earthion. And Sony is pushing PS5 pro FFS!!

I don't see how any current games could really benefit from better hardware. 60FPS performance mode is fine for my taste. Maybe future games like the next God of War or Horizon game. But I'll probably wait for PS6 then.

@Shepherd_Tallon She waves hello back at you! Yea, sarcasm is definitely underrated so it's up to us to bring it back where it belongs 😎

This current gen has been an absolute failure to me. There are good games but most of them still run on PS4 so nothing is really taking advantage of these new consoles so far.

@DennisReynolds "a PS5 Pro is a waste of time and money just like the PS4 Pro was"

You don't get to decide that, though. The PS4 Pro offered tangible performance benefits in a large amount of titles, vastly improved image quality and gave us PSVR support. It most certainly wasn't a waste of time and money for a lot of people.

I think the same. Can't see the point of it. It's too early.

@Skyfall I think you might be in for a bit of a surprise...and not a nice one, DD2 is struggling even on the mutts nuts level gaming rigs, seems more like the issues are with the game, not the hardware running it.

The only real noticeable transition this generation has been from a black box to this curvaceous white glaring thing. Entirely hardware related

I just wish that they had given the Pro a much faster CPU. This means that CPU demanding games, will still struggle on the Pro...

Funny how people think DD2 doesn't hit 60fps because of hardware restrictions. It's optimisation and it will be rectified. A Pro will more likely hit a much higher FPS in future as in by the time it actually releases.

I think the PS5 PRO is still going to sell at least as well as the PS4 PRO in the end, but maybe at a slower pace at the beginning when considering the current economy, but people putting it in the SAME Niche Category as the PSVR 2 is ridiculous.

This Link from EuroGamer says it all.
https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2024-spec-analysis-playstation-5-pro-the-most-powerful-console-yet

I particularly like this quote in it.

"PS4 Pro effectively doubled the size of the GPU and doubled compute unit count, while PS5 Pro 'only' increases the size by 67 percent. However, thanks to machine learning-based upscaling, I believe that PS5 Pro should be able to deliver a Far Higher perceptual increase in Resolution vs PS5 than the PS4 Pro did against its junior variant"(PS4).

Again, I'm definitely getting a PS5 PRO!

Happy Gaming ✌!

This confusion is really starting to get to me. I'm paralyzed on the ps5. It's has great games on it that I'd genuinely love, by I don't: a) Want to spend £450 ish on a ps5 slim that could be made obsolete by the ps5 pro or b) spend £550+ (I'm guessing) on a ps5 pro that could be made obsolete by MS and/or Sony starting the 10th gen in 2026. Why is this even a conversation when games are already so expensive! It's genuinely like executives have gone insane.

One segment in particular benefitted the most from PS4 Pro, the bump in image quality was really noticeable on PSVR. It was the main reason for me to get a Pro and i expect the same kind of improvement for PSVR 2. I love my PSVR 2 , it's basically my go-to accessory when i boot up the PS5 so i'm afraid i can't let a PS5 Pro slip when it's out in the wild. I own a decent Samsung 4K tv set but regarding flat games i barely noticed any difference on a tv/monitor screen, or at least not a clear leap. PSVR did show a significant increase in resolution and i want the best image clarity possible on the headset when plugged in a PS5. Don't think i'll buy a capable PC when it will be supported, just a bit too expensive for a decent piece of kit and added hassle getting it set up. My PS5 goes to my nephew and i'll maybe get €200 for it from my sis(his mom) if i'm lucky. Which is fine because i want him and his siblings to be able to play the latest games on a modern platform. They had a friggin N64 as most recent system before i donated the PS4 Pro to them, with success. They own a decent collection for it now and enjoy it a lot, so mission complete in my book!. Only person not sharing their enthusiasm is their dad, a tabletop games fan whom i suspect to see videogames as a slight threat to their enthusiasm for his own specific little hobby, lol. More digital dangers incoming pal!🤣

With how long it is taken to get properly into the PS5 generation, I won’t be buying a PS6 on launch let alone a PS5 Pro. I will wait another generation until I see games that actually make use of the consoles capabilities. So far I don’t think I have played anything that the PS4 couldn’t have handled.

@UnlimitedSevens PS5 isn't held back by PS4 parity, it's held back by the long reached ceiling of meaningful graphics boosters beyond the trite "transformative" but ultimately bubblegum aesthetic experiences. We haven't even seen the industry tangibly embrace PS5's single true selling point (game design philosophy changes through variable elimination of loading times), and yet Pro's spec "leaks" already fantasize about parameters that sound enough to build a friggen Ainkrad... but would be most likely also wasted trying to chase and "upscale" the relative parity between the continuously bloated pixel and frame counts instead. At this rate, Gen 9 will really remain primarily marked by Nintendo blowing up the QoL department (just like Gen 7 was primarily marked by them blowing up the gaming interface one) while the other platforms are locked in a beauty pageant stalemate that's growing punnily staler by the year. And releasing a "Pro" now, between its obviously higher specs and price, might well rub it further in indeed.

From a DevsPublishers perspective, that's additional weeks if not months of optimisation work for an additional Model but NO/limited additional Sales. Most people that would buy their game would still buy regardless. The PS5 Pro isn't likely to 'boost' sales of the Game enough to justify the 'extra' costs in optimising for another hardware spec.

@RicksReflection Its your money and up to you to decide if you think the predominantly 'Visual' upgrade the PS5 Pro is likely to offer as 'worth' the cost to you.

At the moment, some 'Performance' modes are as low as 720p on Base PS5 with 'FSR' being used to upscale. The PS5 Pro maybe able to bump the 'Base' resolution up to say 1080p and then use PSSR to upscale for a 'better' looking result, less artefacts due to a 'better' upscaler (more akin to DLSS) and a better starting resolution.

Its like the PS4 Pro before it too in that its CPU is the same, just given a 'slighter' boost this time but as we saw with PS4 to PS4 Pro or XB1S to XB1X, the boosts to CPU didn't translate to a 'massive' (as in 30 to 60fps or 2x) jumps in frame rates.

So whilst the 'image' may look more like a '4k' image should look like if the Hardware was actually able to run the game at 4k due to 'better' upscaling and/or maybe a higher starting resolution too, its not suddenly going to make a '30fps' game run at 60fps if its CPU limited - as MANY games are.

For some, the 'cost' for a better image will be worth it - the PS4 Pro and XB1X both sold so there is some market for them. But despite those being on the Market, they were still outsold by their 'Base' hardware that was much cheaper. In other words, the base hardware was more popular than mid-gen upgrades.

Paying $500+ for games that 'look' better but still have the same issues, same game-play, same stories, same experiences etc, especially if you already have a PS5 to play/experience those games on. The Games themselves are reliant too on the devs actually making and releasing optimised, fully working games at launch - yet most are buggy messes.

@Fyz306903

With Sony being the No.1 Selling Console Manufacturer this GEN, Sony's Definitely NOT going to push out Next Gen until 2027 or 2028, but with Microsoft's current GEN Sales, that's a completely different situation, so they MIGHT push their Next GEN Console sooner, but either way I think Sony's PS5 PRO will help to Shape and Fine Tune (PSSR) Machine Learning for their Truly Next Gen PS6 Console.

I'm Definitely getting One.

Happy Gaming ✌!

What's the downside of a Pro? I don't see one, so why not.

If anything, I'd hoped it be even more pro then they announced, even if it came at a 200$ premium, a CPU upgrade would have been nice.

There will be a market for this, graphics cards still move on relatively quickly, original ps5 is nearly 4 years old already!

In that time I've upgraded my pc graphics card for substantial boost in performance.

Games like Dragons Dogma 2, which may be somewhat badly optimized on release, could certainly use a performance boost. I play it on PC at the moment knowing my PC has more power than my PS5.

Would love to play it on my 4K screen on a playstation, but not at the current 30fps it can just about manage.

OLED TVs are becoming more and more affordable and 60hz and 120hz 4K are within the reach for the majority, but most top games can't output to that on the base ps5.

Depending on cost, an upgrade to the ps5 pro could be an option for many, will keep the console relevant for the next few years imho.

further to my comment above, gigabit internet is quickly become the standard, in the UK it is reaching common affordability for gamers (less than 40GBP per month), very fast downloads for large games is possible now, a digital only ps5 pro I could live with, not sure when I last used a disk drive on my ps5.

on my PC I've not used a disk drive for years unless to play an old game I have lying around.

I owned a PS4 Pro, but it was because I'm a huge Spider-Man fan and I wanted to limited edition console. I never owned a 4K display and still don't, so I would personally have no reason to ever invest in this. With the base PS5 still being $400-$500 I imagine this would sell for at least $600. And I struggle to see anybody but the most hardcore fans spending THAT much for a console. The Portal was a success but PSVR2 was a failure. Maybe this will be somewhere in the middle and advance some proprietary software tech. Or it may be super expensive to make and it will sell for quite the loss.

Who knows. Right now I need Sony to make their PS5 with more sturdy parts. My HDMI port is busted. The ports in my switch and Series S work just fine and I've had them for even longer than my PS5. Was really disappointed to see it fail and to see how much they were going to charge to fix it (I didn't go for it).

That guy is a complete clown. Hard to take anything he says seriously.

How about just make some big AAA blockbuster campaign games Sony. Instead of leaving us dry until April 2025.

I like that Sony have great success but if you see through them and around them, they are money grabbing and a very, pay more get less company.
That’s in most of their electronics devices.

@BAMozzy
I agree mostly with what your saying, except that I also think, just like Richard at DF, that there's some information about the PS5 PRO that WE Don't have(Maybe Better Compression Program...ect) we don't know, so we'll have to wait and see.

I'm a Optimistically Pessimistic person, "The Glass is Half Full, but I Still want to Know Where the other Half Is".

So I'm going to give them a Chance to tell me, and then see where were at with their supposed massive FPS Increase, and if it turns out to be BS, then I'LL Strip them Down with You, No Problem.

By the way I think we're more alike than we are different, we just differ on our approach to this News.

Happy Gaming Bam✌!

Fully agree on this sentiment. When the PS4 Pro came in, first party releases and big titles were in full flow (as well as PSVR just launching) plus it helped with the new generation of TV's that had started to gain traction. I got persuaded when I saw HZD running at a Sony pop up booth on a PS4 Pro. Then we had God of War, Spiderman, lots of other big titles to come along. I feel it has only really been major first party titles that have pushed the PS5 to its limits and dev cycles make them fewer and farther between. Sure the hardware will be awesome and probably the best place to experience some of the games but... I was an early Ps4 Pro adopter and I'm not fazed by this.

@MomsSpaghetti Alan Wake 2 is the best looking this generation and Avatar is the best looking open world game this generation. Spidey 2 looks incredible but it isn't doing what those two games did.

@Ainu20 The PS4 Pro didn't offer much at all, even the 1st party games barely done anything with it.

@nhSnork

Yeah could not agree more. I would say the PS5 has room to grow beyond just upping the frame rate and resolution that so many seem to be obsessed with these days. These marginal, barely noticeable (to me anyways) changes that don't affect the end experience all that much.

What PS5 could do - and where I think PS4 held it back - is as you said the game design philosophy, not resolution or graphics. Namely, utilizing the SSD to create new experiences. We saw this in a limited way with Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart's seamless world transitions, although it was later discovered some trickery was involved there. Graphics are scalable, the core game design is not.

What made it apparent the PS4 parity is holding PS5 back for me was God of War: Ragnarok. The design limitations of the PS4 version (loading screens hidden by tedious segments of squeezing through wall openings, etc.) are naturally present in the PS5 version as well, even though they were not needed with the PS5's SSD. I firmly believe the level layouts would be rearranged for the better and "flow" better in a more seamless way, if the PS4 version did not exist. This is just one small example of many I'm sure. Sort of that old argument that the devs develop to the lowest common denominator and scale what is scalable to the more powerful consoles.

It's a shame that the most impressive games for me in the PS5's library are still the exclusives that came out during the launch window, like Ratchet and Demon's Souls and Astro Bot. Something happened about 6 months in where they just chose to make the PS5 like a PS4 Pro+. It never felt like a generational leap outside of the launch games because they ditched exclusivity pretty quickly. I think it was a practical business decision that hurt the PS5's long term prospects in the end.

@DennisReynolds

What the PS4 Pro offered in a nutshell was 4K compatibility. It was needed at the time, as 4K TVs were becoming the industry standard. Granted, the vast majority of games did not actually output true 4k, but it was needed regardless. The PS4 base model hardware was pretty dated the second it launched. By the time the Pro launched it was ancient.

But you are right - in the end, the value proposition for the Pro was 4K and... Pretty much jack all else. The "pro enhanced" modes some games offered were to me negligible and unimpressive.

@DennisReynolds

I disagree, I had a PRO 4 day 1, and the Resolution and Especially the Frame Rates Greatly improved over the Base 4 on a lot of Games.

Don't take my word for it, All you need to do is look at Past Videos on Digital Foundry comparing the 2 with the same games to see the difference between them.

Happy Gaming ✌!

@DennisReynolds Just because you say the same thing twice, doesn't make it more true. It offered improved image quality in a long list of titles. That's not up for debate, it's factual data.

Whether you personally think that makes it worth it, is a completely different story, but that's not the same as saying it was a waste of time and money or that it didn't offer much.

@RicksReflection

I kinda feel like I'm nuts but I still can't - really - tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps unless it's compared side by side. I guess I might be crazy and I suppose it is to my benefit I can't tell. I can tell when the frame rate dips but that's about it.

Call me the most unobservant person in the world haha, but I have never understood this whole frame rate obsession thing. I know I'm not in the majority on this but I'd like to see improvements in other areas besides just repeatedly focusing on this specific element. I feel like I missed a whole generation because I missed the memo that framerate is king. We used to talk about new gameplay mechanics and "better graphics" between generations as kids. Now we argue about 10 framerate dips in a 60fps game in hyper-technical Digital Foundry videos.

Wild stuff. I'm old.

Eh, lets be honest, the only reason to upgrade to Pro is the notDLSS, which could be backported to base PS5 if done right.

That or Sony could ask AMD for a custom fork of FSR2/FSR3.

@MomsSpaghetti

Ditto, it looked better on my 4K Display as well.

That's when Sony added 4K Checkerboarding to the PRO 4, just like their Now adding Machine Learning PSSR to the PRO 5, which is Waaay Better upscaling technology, so much better it's almost not even in the same Sport!

Mind you it was late in last Gen's Life Cycle, but how can anyone forget the CyberPunk debacle with them showing only the PRO 4 version, because the Base 4 was atrocious, and then say the PS4 PRO didn't offer much?

Selective Memory?

Happy Gaming ✌!

@MomsSpaghetti

That was pretty much THE reason for a Pro, and maybe framerate here and there. Anecdotally, the game specific tweaks I never was too blown away by. I remember Monster Hunter World had a fidelity mode that added more foliage, which was cool. But nothing truly game changing as far as anything I personally played, outside the 4k support (which is a pretty big jump admittedly). I think the benefits of the Pro were pretty overstated... but the triple decker design was neat. Too bad about the jet engine fan.

Some people mentioned it was a pretty big boost for VR games, which is significant if you played a lot of VR.

@Ainu20

I was thinking the same thing. Yeah we haven't made the most out of the PS5 yet, therefore a graphically stronger console is pointless even though we continually release games that struggle to run acceptable at launch...I actually don't understand what this guy is saying.

@gameus_erectus

I think the general argument is those games run poorly because they are not optimized well for the system, not because the PS5 is maxed out. We see those games patched later to have better performance in those cases when they are a mess at launch or don't work well.

I personally can't say for sure because I'm not a game dev but I think the base PS5 has a lot more to give, especially by well optimized games released by first parties. Fingers crossed.

@CielloArc

It can't be Back Ported to the Standard PS5, the PSSR Machine Learning is Hardware Built into the New PS5 PRO's Custom Graphics Chip, which is vastly Superior than any Software solution could ever be.

It's along the lines of Nvidia's version of Machine Learning with DLSS built into their Graphics Cards, which is Waaay Superior versus AMD's Sub Par FSR Software Upscaling Tech.

Happy Gaming ✌!

@MomsSpaghetti

Oh yeah, a lot of people were happy with the performance boost, especially people who are keen on framerate. I've heard people sing it's praises and get the arguments for 4k and all that.

I owned one. Bought it due to my base PS4 being pretty aged and struggling at the point. I saw hardly any noticeable benefit at all. But that's me, I think it is a niche product marketed maybe more to technophiles, but to my untrained eye I got nothing out of it except jet fan noises that scared my dog haha. I'm not discounting the value of it, just saying it's meant for people who are not me, possibly more observant people than me.

Money. Money is the point.

@LN78 I agree. Playstation now port their games to PC, Microsoft now port their games to Playstation, and games are still running at 30Hz in fidelity mode. I've had enough of consoles. I am moving to PC next generation.

The way this generation been going I might skip ps6 and next gen xbox all together. Im all in on a Switch 2 though!!

@RicksReflection My biggest concern is Frame Generation - using AI/ML to 'artificially' insert extra frames to create the 'look' of a game running at 60fps but in reality, its still a 30fps game, updating 30x per second with the 'FEEL' of a 30fps game as a result.

Both FSR 3 and DLSS 3 are able to generate extra frames by 'waiting' until the next frame is generated and therefore have the information to generate a frame to drop in inbetween. At below 60fps though, this really isn't great as it significantly adds more input lag and feels even less responsive than regular 30fps just to 'smooth' out the motion.

I also have issue with Devs/Publishers claiming their game is '4k' on a Console when in reality its running at much lower resolution and using 'upscaling' methods to output a 3840x2160 image. To me, that's like some 'SD' or even 'HD' TV channel claiming they are now delivering 4k because the image is upscaled to 4k by your TV. OK so they may use better Upscaling techniques - inc Chequerboard Rendering, Temporal Upscaling, some Algorithm or AI to take a '1080p' image and make it 'look' more like a 'native' 4K image than other upscaling methods - such as your own TV's upscaling algorithm or FSR/DLSS/XESS/PSSR.

Sony haven't claimed a 'Massive' Frame Rate boost at all - they haven't officially announced it yet. Its people that are expecting or 'wanting' a minimum 60fps (even on PS5) that 'hope' this will somehow do what even the latest and significantly better CPU's can't offer on PC, PC's with 32GB System RAM and at least 8GB built into their GPU's.

Yes it may have Sony's 'equivalent' to DLSS built in, like nVidia's GPU's but as I said, these 'GPU's' can't deliver a 'locked' 60fps experience with the 'best' intel CPU's on the market. Frame Gen may make some 50+ FPS games 'look' like they are running at 100fps+, even take games running at 1080p, with RT and make them 'look' like they are native 4k - but the game is still only a 1080/50 game made to look like its running at 4k/100 with DLSS 3.0.

Essentially, frame generation is more a 'motion blur' type option - create the illusion of higher frame rates, create the illusion of 'smoother motion'. AI upscaling is also creating the illusion that the Hardware is actually running games at 'higher' resolution.

Again, its up to the individual to decide if that 'illusion' is worth the extra cost to them. For some, it may well be a little bit more than a Base PS5 to decide if its worth spending a bit more on it, but for others who already have a PS5, its another big outlay.

Most 3rd Party games aren't really worth buying at launch today - unoptimised, missing content/features, filled with bugs/glitches etc that take months to get patched.

I bought a PS4 Pro and XB1X at 'launch' but at the time, these were as expensive as a 'base' PS5 is today but I don't know that I'll buy into PS5 Pro because like the PS4 Pro before it, its not a 'balanced' upgrade - heavily weighted on the GPU side when the CPU has often been the Bottleneck to 60fps gaming...

@MomsSpaghetti

Simple,Right!
If they don't like the Idea for what ever reason they have, then don't buy one!

I especially love the people comparing Virtual Reality Gaming to Mainstream Gaming, and then say that the PS5 PRO is going to be a "Niche Product" just like the PSVR 2 Headsets collecting Dust in Sony's Warehouse...What?...Lol

The only reason it'll be slower in sales than the PS4 PRO (besides obviously this crummy economy), is if Sony releases the PS5 PRO at some CRAZY Price Point, or Low Balls us by selling it Stripped Down without the Disc Drive as an example, at $549.99 U.S and then makes everyone Buy the Disc Drive Separately for $79.99 U.S for a Total of $629.98 U.S, because I think it should be at a Max Total of $100.00 more than what ever the Base Disk PS5 is at the time of Lauch.

Happy Gaming ✌!

I will buy it because i am want it. It is the only reason for me. I have all Sony tv consoles (and psp, vita and psvr 1 and 2) so i want this one as well.
I guess i am the target audience and i dont care.
U dont like a ps5pro? Dont buy one for chimps sake, and leave those who do alone.

@Ainu20 That's because developers are developing around a 30fps target and shoehorning a 60fps mode to keep "Performance Mode when?" out of the mouths of the X Mob.

If developers targeted 60fps during the entire process, 1080p/60 with FSR to 4K would go away.

This is a developer problem, not a hardware problem.

the main thing ps5 needs is folders cant believe my ps4 as folders and we still waiting for ps5 folders

@GamingFan4Lyf I definitely agree it's a developer problem rather than a hardware problem, the PS5 can do better and we see that in first party games. But instead of developers getting better at optimizing, image quality and performance only seem to get worse, with 2023 having some of the worst offenders.

So yeah, if developers aren't improving at getting the best out of the hardware, we can give them more processing power and hope that helps them hit resolution and performance targets. Not ideal, but that's the reality.

There's no point in the PS5 Pro at all from where I'm standing.

All i know is that I'll skip the Pro gladly. Not gonna spend money again on another hardware that will probably last less than 3 years because by then a PS6 will be out. I'd rather wait and play everything i can on base PS5 and then jump to a PS6 (which hopefully will have BC) to play all PS4 and PS5 games at higher framerates. I still own a very simple 1080p 60hz TV. I just care about new and fun games to play and that's it

Then make some games that take advantage of the software and don’t run like a constipated dog. Seriously, developer integrity is down the tubes. If a hardware improvement, such as the proprietary upscaling, means I don’t have to trust your empty promises then I’m ok with that. If that means less pay, job security and stuff for you? Make better products.

The Pro is just another gift of the outgoing bobblehead's lack of vision.

The PS4 Pro didn't really sell that great, it wasn't really utilized internally after the launch window let alone by 3rd parties (Capcom and their perennial terrible engines and optimization notwithstanding. From New 3DS to PS4 Pro I feel like every mid-gen console basically exists to keep Capcom from looking incompetent. )

Yes it gets enthusiasts to upgrade, it gets more cash out of them, but then most of those go on to sell their base console so it cannibalizes other new console sales while increasing supply cost of games. If it makes a net margin, it's a thin margin. But hey, that's Jim's thing. Ask Totoki.

Having said that, this whole current gen from both platforms is lackluster. The hardware seemed woefully obsolete on launch, they released hardware much too soon while the old hardware still had life in it, and as a result little really separates the genrations. It still feels like an enhanced PS4 rather than a new gen, and already the industry is talking about moving onto new gen. Most devs seem to be making PS4 games with some enhancements or PS6 games that run poorly. Nobody's actually making PS5 games. But Pro doesn't help that, and largely just makes the landscape more confusing and makes PS6 feel "too soon" when it finally luanches.

@SgtTruth exactly my sentiment. New hardware isn’t needed, but new software that is only able to run on a Pro model? Sure, I’m down. The studios that are getting shuttered are mostly studios pumping out rubbish, layoffs are hitting everyone. At the end of the day, as a consumer, I will put my money where I get the most benefit. If that harms developers, that’s not my problem. This statement sounds like a fear that if hardware and software upgrades make developers less necessary for optimization then jobs will be lost. But I dunno, I think if a game runs like garbage then some jobs weren’t needed.

@Ainu20 I have been hammering this fact for a while now.

Microsoft, despite not getting its footing since X360 days, has actually tried this generation to promote a code smarter approach.

There are various technologies that the Series consoles that, when properly utilized, actually allow developers to do more with less. But because PS5 is the "lead platform" that technology is all but ignored. The Xbox is more "bothersome" to them as it forces engineers to think - which they just don't feel they have time for (not entirely their fault, though)

Sony simply threw more hardware at the problem and kept things mostly the same. Sure, it's a great way to get projects out of the gate faster, but if developers are still coding in the past, they will never progress.

I love Sony exclusives, but simply giving into the "throw more powerful hardware at the problem" doesn't help the industry grow. Developers can just continue to do "business as usual". This has a serious ripple effect in the PC-space too.

Unfortunately, publisher pressure and deadlines prevent this. That is an industry problem.

This isn't a Microsoft vs Sony thing. This is a "how do we get developers to think differently" thing. AI upscaling is a nice tool, but, much like FSR, I see it getting abused.

Thats a very good point. tbh whilst some will argue it allowed more budget constrained fans to jump on this generation I think a key part of the failure of the generation (i.e. lack of a step-change in the content) is the xbox Series S. I have every console, always have so have no fanboy flag to fly - but releasing a console that is 25% the power of the other two units it shares the generation with (the XBX and PS5) has meant that all games have to be essentially crippled to run on the S. It has surely held the generation back, and thats why we aren't ready for the next half step of a generation to the Pro.

These developers are contradicting themselves. If there's more juice to be squeezed then why aren't they squeezing? This just makes them sound incompetent and lazy.

I think some developers have already hit their limits on what they are capable of on the PS5 but budgets and deadlines also play a big part on the level of polish they can do. The real complaint they've got here is they obviously don't want to do any extra work because they believe they'll just mainly be selling to the same people and if there's not much extra cash on the table for them then they don't want to do any extra work.

Sony has apparently made the Pro's extra power as easy to utilise as possible and if I'm remembering correctly we also had similar complaints about PS4 Pro from anonymous Devs. I don't care what anyone says though, I'm buying the Pro because these same developers who are complaining will continue to put out games that have lower internal resolutions and unstable framerates.

Well if devs are about an unenthusiastic as I am and are literally echoing things I've thought and said, the "PS5 Pro" upgrade version of games is going to be just like the PS4 Pro, i.e. games that run slightly better without actually offering significant improvements. At least the PS4 Pro could brag 4K over 1080p but that's not relevant this time around.

Honestly, this is the most disappointing generation I've ever experienced and I've been gaming since the Master System/NES days. Every generation up until this one felt like a step up, an acceleration. This one feels like coasting slowly to a stop. Xbox is dying, Sony has nothing up it's sleeve. The damage from the pandemic is clearly a lot bigger than we were led to believe, and it might well be a decade (basically another 5 years minimum from now) until it looks anything like it did in 2019.

@BAMozzy

I totally agree and understand your concerns and I'm attaching a link below that demonstrates the very thing that you're trying to point out, and have been pointing out, that's why I keep telling you that we're more alike than you think. Only difference is I'm still Excited about buying this Generation Mid-Console refresh.

But as far as Sony, they Have Been Up-Selling the Base PS5 and it's capabilities from the start, and their doing the same thing for PS5 PRO, and "Technically" their not lying, so I know that you already know, that Most Games and there Resolutions and Frame Rates are all different from the Go, so as an example, a Simple game can run Wicked High Frame rates and Higher Native Resolutions like 4K, do to the Minimal Load Across the Board, so specifically for that Game it is actually 4K 60FPS, so Sony's "Technically not Lying", and now the numbers that Sony's throwing around with the PS5 Pro, they're stating that it "Not Only" can achieve 4K at 60 FPS, that it'll be able to achieve 4K at 120FPS, but can that it also at some point be able to do 8K at 60FPS...Crazy?

So the Question is How are they going to pull that Rabbit out of the Hat?...because you and I know unless somethings missing, your especially not going to get the "Monster Numbers" that I was referencing of say 4K at 120FPS and 8K at 30FPS, I mean we have to be missing some kind Outside the Box thinking, like maybe some Sony Trick architecture or Software, that works along with PSSR or some kind of Other Spec information that's possibly missing, who knows?

But I'm Excited to see, because personally, I'm already sold on the PSSR Machine Learning aspect, along with All of the other Leaked Specs so far for the PS5 PRO, let alone any New Info that Sony's going to spill in the near future on the PS5 PRO.

By the way, so that you can see that I understand what your talking about and your concerns with Games and Machine Learning, here's that link that I mentioned earlier.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-dlss-35-tested-ai-powered-graphics-leaves-competitors-behind

Happy Gaming Bam✌!

I think it will only be in late 2024 - late 2025 when games like Star Wars Outlaws and GT6 come out that we will really see the PS5 pushed to it max by 2 developers with large budgets and the best in class talent at game engine optimisation.

@MomsSpaghetti They don't but visually are far superior to Spidey 2. Both games can run at 60fps but AW2 lacks ray tracing and i think Avatar has limited RT. Thing is though RT or not they're both visually above pretty much everything else.

@Ainu20 Adding a mediocre version of fake 4K was hardly much of an improvement.

@RicksReflection Interesting when DF always treated the Pro as an afterthought in their videos.

Devs only feel so because they are still making crossgen games with a console that's been 10 years old. Now let's look at this gen only games and picture is quite different , isn't? Many new especially UE5 games are CPU throttled and games like Dogma 2, Alan wake 2 have areas where frame rates can drop to low 20 or even worse.

There are countless games that already push max out of PS5, so if you are indie developer that publishes their games for crossgen it's no wonder ps5 pro isn't needed, because you still plan those games for a consoles that's over 10 years now.

Makes sense. These are probably the same devs & publishers that claimed the Series S is holding back gaming. So of course they'll no be happy when PlayStation brings out a Pro model to kill development time & cash.

GDC has honestly fallen a long way from top talent over the last 7 years. I went most of the last decade before moving out of the Bay Area to work at a different studio. The quality of the discussions had taken a dive in quality and the people visiting for connections were the bottom end of the hiring pool that didn't have a lot of experience with top tier projects. So I don't know who he was talking to, could have been that collection of screaming idiots that were there for all I know.

Point I'm trying to get at here is, that while these people may be in the industry and involved with somer truly interesting aspects of the games they are working on. They aren't exactly working close enough to the bare metal to know what is going on and likely not paying attention to whats going on with AAA projects of late to know the ways they are struggling.

I think the PS5 and Series X needed another year or so in the oven and used more recent tech. Yes we're using ray tracing, but we're not really benefiting from it. Some games really do a good job of handling RT like R&C Rift Apart, but then you get a game like CoD which is barely using it. I think DF put it best is that the utilization of a lot of the tech has made games looks worse than last generation titles. FF7 Rebirth if you saw their last post on the blog indicates that they are throwing more polygons at their models (not sure why this was done, unless they are were trying to get greater articulation out of their characters, that I wasn't seeing from Remake to Rebirth).

Games are starting to push the performance to the point that performance mode isn't seeing any real benefit. I'll easily point back to RTX and RDNA now being ready for prime time. Not to mention the over reliance on image reconstruction techniques in an attempt to fake higher resolutions combined with a lot of these AI solutions to upscale the image.

I can honestly tell you, GPU wise (which the PS5 Pro/Edge) focus' on for its upgrades, is at the very heart of what will need to be addressed. It's holding developers back from really utilizing the underlying hardware. We are seeing games starting to struggle, by the end of this year it'll be a little more apparent, if not obvious. By Christmas 2025, it'll be obvious how much this 4 year old hardware is holding us back and why this upgrade was needed. That isn't even getting into the RAM.

Those of us messing with the hardware closer to the metal see the problems forming already. I can see a reason for the update for those who want performance mode that doesn't look like a 1st generation PS3 game.

@RicksReflection Like I said, if its NOT actually running at 60fps but relying on PSSR to 'artificially' create the illusion of 60fps through Frame Generation (or 120fps) then its nothing more than a 'visual' thing - like turning on Motion Blur to create a 'smoother' looking game.

4k (or 8k) isn't '4k' if its using ANY form of Upscaling. Sony already mislead with Killzone Shadowful, claiming it was running at higher resolution than it was.

What I don't want to see is games that are running at '1080/30' on PS5 as being '4k/60' games just because PSSR, like DLSS can make the game 'look' like its running at 4k/60. If the game is 'updating' at 30 times a second, then its a 30fps game regardless.

DLSS may leave its 'competitors' behind, but whilst it may get 'closest' to the look of 'Native 4k' (with the same Graphics settings), its still an upscaled lower res game. Frame Generation may also create the look of 60,, but plays 'worse' than Native 30fps due to the game only updating at 30fps so has '30fps' input lag + extra input lag due to the frame generation.

DLSS 'looks' great compared to Native res or native frame rates, but the game itself isn't producing that image or updating 'faster'. In theory, you can add this to ANY game make a PS4 1080/30 game running at 1080/30 on a PS5 Pro via BC look like its now running at 4k/60 but may actually feel less responsive than playing on PS4 with Native 30fps because the AI adds some more 'Lag' as it artificially creates frames to drop in...

At 60fps, the 'extra' Lag is lower due to 60 updates per second, 16.6ms between frames instead of 33.3ms so less impactful but its not great for '30fps' modes...

@DennisReynolds

So besides Sony themselves, selling between 23 & 24 million PS4 PRO Consoles to date, In what sense did DF think of it as an after thought?

Because that's a Loaded self justifying statement without you giving the addition of a specific video reference from DF, and even if you could, it would also depend on the Context of the DF conversation, and on the Specific Subject Matter at that moment in time in the Video, to know what there actually making reference to, or are you trying to say that Every DF Video about the PS4 PRO was them typically Treating the PS4 PRO as an Afterthought to the Base PS4, and that there weren't enough improvements to justify its existence, because I've never heard them say that in any sort of way, in any of their Videos...so I'm confused...

I know that I Definitely Saw the Difference, and Played the difference on my 4K TV, so again I don't know what your talking about?

Happy Gaming ✌!

Cheers to people buying one. Looking forward to seeing what it does and I hope it's great, but I'll be slapping in a new gpu in the pc instead while I wait for the PS6.

I'm wondering if a lot of people, including Sony apparently, have already forgotten just how difficult it was to buy a PS5 for the first - what - year or two years of its life?
That plus the longer-than-usual cross platform period with the PS4 has really compounded this feeling that the base PS5 has only just hit its stride.

@RicksReflection I don't think they are claiming the PS5 pro can do 60/8k. I think they stated that PSSR will be updated for that when it's included on the ps6. Unless I'm misunderstanding you

@DennisReynolds You call it mediocre fake 4k, but the checkerboarding we saw on the PS4 Pro was often better than the blurry combo of super low res internal rendering and FSR we get on current platforms today. It was a worthy upgrade at the time.

@BAMozzy

I Feel where your coming from, but my Half Full outlook is, as Hardware Continues to Advance and it becomes More Easily Capable of Showing Higher Native Resolutions, Machine Learning needs to also be Advancing along side it, and while you might not think that it's a good thing at first, and it feels like their back sliding, and like their some how cheating us out of True Resolutions and True Hardware Based Frame Rates, and doing it by Artificially applying them through Machine Learning, I'm not worried about that, because I see a Future where Hardware Resolutions will Max out at 10K (the most definition the human eye can perceive) and Wicked Smooth High Frame Rates, but Machine learning will still be there to increase our Gaming Experience in so many other ways, in ways that we can't even imagine now, but we can't get to that Future if we don't embrace Machine Learning Now, even if for some people, it "At First" feels like a cheat, and that we're taking a hit, it still needed to happen, the sooner the better!

Heck Nvidia only started it in 2018 and now instead of 2ms latency like Sony, theirs is only at 0.5ms latency which is wicked fast, so Now Sony is following suit, and like I've mentioned many times before it's their I.P, so they may catch up fast to Nvidia and may even surpass them in short order, who knows, but I find it very exciting to see what they'll do with it! Exciting Times!

Happy Gaming Bam✌!

I don't understand the idea that games aren't making the most of the PS5's capabilities when big games seem to have endless problems with giving a smooth framerate, etc. What part of it isn't being fully utilized?

@mvhess

Yeah I think they ment the PS5 PRO will do 8K 60FPS in a Future update, heck Sony claimed 8K for the Original Launch PS5, it's right on the Box..Lol.

But Until they show me, it's all Hyperbole...Lol.

As a consumer who owns both a PS5 and PSVR2 I likewise find myself asking the question of how to justify yet another hardware upgrade when three years on the existing hardware has seen so little in terms of first-party games I care about playing and Sony seems to have left me and other PSVR2 owners hanging in the wind with zero first-party titles since Horizon: Call of the Mountain. The modern gaming industry has created a throwaway culture with subscription models and consoles they want you to move on from every 3 to 4 years, and when you combine that with so many "AAA" games in development for years only to be released as glorified (and non-refundable) betas, that simply isn't sustainable. Even lifelong hobbyists like myself are already weighing other entertainment options.

@AtlanteanMan

I Personally don't see it as a throw away culture, at least not yet, (even though too many things these day's are), I say that because it's not like Sony's going to quit making Games for the Standardard PS5 that has the Larger Installed Base, the PS5 PRO is just an OPTION, it's not actually the Next Gen PS6, that'll most likely come out in 2027 to 2028.

Plus we're talking November 2024 for the PS5 PRO, which is a Full 4 Years after the Original PS5, in comparison to the PS4 PRO Launching only 3 Years after the Original PS4, and look at how that went, the Sky didn't Fall and yet they Kept Chugging out PS4 Software in mass and in fact they still are...Lol.

Again it's a choice, not mandatory or Next Gen, and so nothing has to be thrown away.

Edit: I'm only Applying my thoughts to the PS5 PRO that easily Piggybacks All of PS5's Software, now I Feel for you with the PSVR 2, that's a tougher sell, because if they don't do more Software for the PSVR 2, then that throw away culture comment you made, may WELL Apply to PSVR 2.
Happy Gaming ✌!

@UnlimitedSevens Exactly this. First party releases for PS4 weren't being released so they would accommodate PS3 players too. As you said, there was a very different situation this time around with the pandemic etc. but the idea of a PS5 Pro seems to be completely pointless to me.

I'd be quite happy to see some games for PS5 that truly wow me. This gen has been so boring thus far.

This gen has 2 lost years of the pandemic and cross-gen games. It arguably didn’t get started until 2022 which means we shouldn’t really be getting a PS6 until 2029 at the earliest. I don’t think there is any thirst from gamers for a new gen any time soon, not when they could put resources into developing a new portable or a PS5 that actually fits under my TV.

Capitalism is the point

If developers haven't taken advantage of the PS5 yet that's the developer's fault. It's not like deciphering hieroglyphics before we found the Rosetta Stones (yes there is more than one.) There are SDKs for this.

And how do people continue to say there's no point? Do your versions of games not have a performance and resolution mode?

I want 4k 60fps AT THE SAME TIME. Ray tracing would be icing on the cake. That's something that can be implemented immediately with a stronger machine, no need for developers to toil.

@jeff19023

Without capitalism there'd be no gaming industry at all. It's 100% a waste of resources.

@sanderson72 Rumble better on the PS4 nah not even close i find the PS5 controller better in all the fronts. Maybe with smaller hands i can see it being a little more difficult to handle but even with my smaller hands i would not go back.

@BAMozzy Again you make so many assumptions there is nothing known about the console yet. Nothing about the whats inside yet its so weird that everyone is talking about something thar ksnt even officially made public with specifications or even more that it exists.

@Flaming_Kaiser I've not made assumptions - I've clearly indicated that there is a big difference between what is the 'source' (as in what the game on the hardware is producing) and using whatever method to 'upscale' and/or boost frame rates doesn't change the fact the Source is running a certain way.

Hardware upscaling or Frame Generation - as we see with the latest FSR and DLSS options, one using AI/ML and 'Hardware' to do that (as PSSR and the 'design' leaks also indicated to be 'similar' to nVidia) is only making that 'source' content look better than you expect a lower res/lower frame rate game to look.

the point is that DLSS can make 1080p 'look' like its Native 4k but its still a 1080p 'Source' image. Frame Generation can make 60fps 'look' like its 120fps, that 'extra' smoothness you get instead of the bigger 'jump' movement creates between frames you get at lower frame rates.

I have NO issue with utilising their limited budget frame time (whether 33.3ms or 16.6ms) to better use than just pushing up 'resolution'. If it takes 2ms to 'upsample' 1080p to 4k with NO artefacts, but Native 4k at the SAME settings would add 15ms to their Frame time, i'd rather they use this method - but be honest about the fact its running at 1080p, not Native 4k and using WHATEVER upscaling to produce the final '4k' image you get.

I am OK with them using FSR it may well be better than 'traditional' upscaling, but again be honest - it may well be 1440p CB with FSR2.0 to 4k so be honest.

Frame generation exists too - and there is NO way you can make a '30fps' game 'feel' like a 60fps game because the game updates at 30x a second, generates a frame every 33.3ms, there is also added delay as Frame generation requires the 'next' frame to have a 'start' and 'Finish' point to 'generate' its extra frame, that adds to the input Lag.

Yes this AI PSSR could well be the 'BEST' on the market and really make the PS5 Pro 'look' like its running games at much higher Graphical fidelity than the hardware itself should be able to. If it 'looks' as good as Native and 'looks' like its delivering 60frames whilst only running at 1080/30 (and 720p on Series X/PS5 with 'FSR' upscaling) - its a 'winner'.

Without a system seller ps5 pro is doomed, and i don't see any system seller right now...oh wait...what is that? Gta6 is coming? Oh. Just forget everything i said.

It'll be good for VR, so interested. What I'd really like is no more articles on the subject until someone actually has some new information rather than more rumour or speculation!

"he didn’t meet a 'single person' at the show that understood the point of Sony’s mid-gen upgrade"

What did he expect when asking developers what they thought about this new thing that will make their work harder?

There are MacBook Airs and MacBook Pros that exist at the same time. And, yet, everything that can run on a pro can likewise run on an Air. This is no different. If there's a performance boost in the PS5 Pro a certain segment of the market will purchase it just as a certain market buys MacBook Pros, and they'll be happy about it. If Sony produces the right amount at the right price they'll make money. Good for them. If you personally don't see a need for it, that is completely irrelevant.

All things considered, it seems we're at a point where gens have to be longer than usual for devs to fully explore the hardware.

"Nobody wants a ps portal"

@UnlimitedSevens
COVID is the primary reason they haven't been tapped into yet. It slowed down development on those projects by 1-2 years. We are only now beginning to see the fruits of some of that.
The PS5Pro would have looked a lot better if you imagine big AAA game releases from 2023 and 2024 happened in 2021 and 2022.

@Flaming_Kaiser I was meaning on PS4 games - something's wrong with the rumble emulation.
Regardless, I still think the DS4 is ergonomically and aesthetically better. There's something a bit 'claw hands' about the DS5 and the boring Apple colour schemes are so off.

I do think it's true that we haven't seen the Full Power or Full Optimization of the PS5, and it's obviously do to the Wacky Chain Reaction of Game Development Delays, due to the Interruption of the Crazy World Pandemic.

But I think People need to Keep in Mind that Sony IS Releasing the PS5 Pro (One Full Year Later) than the shorter 3-year Mark that the PS4 Pro was launched at, and again it's most likely because of the Pandemic slowing things down, and when you Factor in that this Generation for Sony is probably going to last "maybe 8 years", and not just the 7 years that the PS4 did, then releasing the PS5 Pro in November of this year makes a whole lot More Sense, but that's only if you take Everything into account, and so if you look at the full scheme of things, and it still doesn't move the Bar for you on the reason for the PS5 PRO's existence, then it's simple, just don't Buy one, and be content with the Standard PS5 for the Next 4 years, and do so without complaining about people WHO ARE Excited about buying one, because in the End we're All Gamers looking to have Fun!

Happy Gaming ✌!

PS5 Pro is not needed anytime soon. Devs need to start learning how to optimize games

I think the fact that we're even talking about a potential PS5 Pro just illustrates that Sony isn't really reading the room on this one. I mean there's still a LOT of games releasing on PS4 still so why do we need a mid-gen refresh exactly, when we haven't even fully left last gen behind? I bought the PS4 Pro at launch but I'm sitting this one out.

The developers should focus on making quality games and learning the system. Instead they are rushing games out to make quick money. A lot of games are not optimized for the system. Now they got the nerve to complain about the system. Learn the system! Shame on you developers! For example, look at Ubisoft games. Some of the poorest quality of games. Did you guys see Assassin Creed Mirage? The chickens are smarter than the AI humans. When the player got near the AI, the chickens started to run away while the AI are just standing there not knowing where they are lol.

@sanderson72 The colored buttons is something i agree on bit the controllees feels better for me personally i was blown away with the Demon Souls remake. The PS4 rumble i really have not noticed that but maybe thats me. Again the games look better, run better and the better feeling controller for me its a 100% win for me personally.

PS5 Pro is a day one purchase.

It will sell more than what these comments expect

I truly don't see the point of a PS5 Pro at this moment. I think another 3-5 years once the PS5 tech is finally pushed to its limit. With the capabilities of the PS5 having never even been elevated to where it could be if it got the attention from Sony solely relying on the PS4 base, I would agree with the pro release. However, I don't see a point. Technology lasts longer due to fast advancements, and PS5 is no different. I hope Sony delays the PS5 pro release even further back.