Horizon: Call of the Mountain PSVR2 Director Made Redundant by Dev Firesprite

I loved CotM, sorry to hear this

Cotm had some huge technical issues that were never resolved, but the experience of seeing horizon IRL was really done so well, and the virtual climbing was a cool gimmick done well, Even if it got a little stale by the end. It deserved better than this.

Really not a good look that they've now offed pretty much every team in the company that knows anything about VR except Asobi that hasn't released a full game since, what, 2017? Seems like a sad and safe bet that PSVR3 is never happening. . I think vr fans that like something better than tablet graphics and don't want to shell out for a $4k PC need to start begging Sony and MS to let us use Meta headsets with our consoles.

Another tombstone memorializing the legacy of Bobblehead Jim .

Jason Schreier said that the twisted metal game was never in development. According to him it never made it past the planning phase because Sony wouldn't give Firesprite the greenlight to start work on it and Firesprite's next game is rumoured to be a horror game.

@NEStalgia Nevermind Jim will still be remembered as a hero. Well that's if Jez Corden's latest tweets and comments are correct about everything coming to playstation, even Forza and Halo, lol.

@MrMagic Wow so even after all of that success of the show they still said no, what a shame.

@Nepp67 Were fans asking them not to port anything else because of the success of the show or something? Because I'm not surprised that didn't work if that's the case.

@MrMagic Contrary to Jim's opinion, Microsoft's business strategy in gaming has nothing to do with Jim.

Jim: they're going to take cod!
Ms: no.
Jim: they're going to create a monopoly!
Ms: no
Jim has left the chat.
Ms: Halo on PlayStation! 😂

If Jim just spent the year he focused on Ms "exclusives" that aren't, focusing on, IDK, call of the mountain and the $550 chunk of hardware that goes with it maybe firesprite would be keeping the Cotm team for a new game ... 😡

It’s known that they are working on a “dark horror”, is it not? Job listings have referred to the project as such, and trusted sources have also referenced it.

@NEStalgia It doesn't matter how it went down, when people look back Jim will get the credit for it even if it is undeserved. Selective memory will play its part.

@NEStalgia A quest pro might give You a similar graphical fidelity but a quest with out eye tracking will not allow for dynamic foveated rendering. So You will end up with significantly downgraded visuals. You may have a "sharper" image without mura, but You will loose detail, resolution and have duller colors. You will also loose a large fraction of the haptic feedback which adds significantly to the overall experience. On top You will get the compression artifacts. So, not sure whether people would be more happy with e.g. a q3 on ps5.

@NEStalgia Isn't it the director of cotm who left firesprite ? So, I suppose a large fraction of the team is still there. I suppose nobody knows whether firesprite is working on some kind of VR support for something (in addition to other projects) or is now doing a mobile mp game.

Not played it yet, worried about my old age balance. But never nice to hear. Good luck.

@gastonthe quest pro will not give you similar graphical fidelity as it has the same soc inside as the quest 2.The quest 3 is an altogether better headset than the quest pro as it has better lenses,soc and passthrough but even that is only 1/3 the power of a ps5

Used and tossed away, just like that. How sad.

And the heads keep rolling at PlayStation.

@TrickyDicky99 Despite its other faults, I do agree on price and still feel that's the real problem with it. At the right price, faults or not, it could have been fantastic, and really could have grown VR as a bigger category. But at THAT price, higher than the console itself, cheaper than the much bigger competitor, and in this economy, it really never had a chance. I do love mine, but I knew the price would kill it.

I still blame Jim who all but openly said he wanted to kill it with fire. Who also probably knew he'd already blown the budget out the roof with everything else and couldn't afford to show a lost penny on VR2, and it didn't fit his vision. A competent leader that actually wanted to make a serious run for VR would have been aggressive on the product. Under his watch they couldn't not have been more passive. It's pretty much just "there."

I suppose they could still fix it. Do a PSVR1 type blitz and sell it half price on black friday. That's when VR1 really took off. Once they have a real leader.

@gaston Yeah, PSVR2 is kind of in a wierd state because the foveated rendering and haptics, especially head haptics really do add a lot in VR IMO. Yet the actual screen res and design is pretty meh. But eventually there's going to be a Quest 4 and no PSVR3, and at that point, we're stuck with Quest without a PC or Quest with a PC and not much else unless the consoles support it. Quest 3 is already a technically better headset and $50 less, but obviously the computing is a problem. Foveated is amazing in games that use it, but so few do because, well, it's only PSVR2...

I think if the director is "redundant" it's pretty clear that the team was folded into a different team under another existing director. Staff may still be there, but the team as a unit clearly was absorbed elsewhere, possibly replacing some of the other lost spots on the main team from the layoff wave.

@MrMagic Ehh, I don't think Jim will get the credit for that other than amongst a tiny subset devout PS fans that for some inexplicable reason feel the need to "vindicate" the guy who trashed PS. I assume most of those "fans" despite being "I bleed blue ponies" joined late in the PS4 era and don't remember the actual good times at PS with capable leaders. Ok PS3 launch was bad, but you still have to love Kutaragi for all the times prior.

@NEStalgia Haven't you learnt anything yet? History is written by the winners, seriously though I doubt barely anyone cared who was in charge before the PS4 era, I know I didn't, actually I still don't but I'm thinking yeah he'll still probably be credited by the blue bloods as you put it with getting Halo on playstation, that's if it actually happens this gen even if nothing he did actually caused it.

@MrMagic PS3 leadership was the best era though. Kutaragi is both a legend from before then,and infamous because of then, but Hirai remains the gold standard in leadership, saving PS from destruction. Then came Jim who then destroyed it anyway lol.

If anyone should be thanked for Xbox games on PS, it's probably Bobby Kotick. Maybe the only harder sell than Jim though.

I’m here to proclaim VR isn’t dead, but sadly it appears PSVR2 might be.

I write this as someone who bought both the original and PSVR2 close to launch. I absolutely loved it. If anything it’s ruined flat screen gaming for me. I can’t go back.

However, the lack of support for PSVR2 has been astounding and there’s nothing on the horizon.

The answer has been to sell my PS5 and PSVR2, leave PlayStation altogether.

From the money made I’ve bought a 2nd hand gaming pc for around £400 and a quest 2 for £200. Been absolutely blown away by the quality of the quest 2. There’s not a game the rig can’t run but you do have mess with the setting, it’s certainly not plug and play but when you get it right it’s just as good.

Im mainly into driving games and now have a large number to try not just GT7 (that I loved). Honestly can’t recommend doing this enough.

It’s a shame but can’t help but feel Sony have already checked out just when others seem to be investing more.

Firesprite leftover Liverpool or other staff. Makes PS4 Playroom app for PS Camera among other things, does PSVR well with their known for game, gets bought, makes Call of the Mountain. Gets dropped.

That and whatever Firesprite had planned next besides rumours and the Horizon tv show happened I assume by now? and the next Horizon projects are under way.

Granted to me Call of the Mountain was just not great. The combat was fair for trying to work around VR but the interactivity and the climbing I mean if you wanted a successor to Robinson the Journey sure I guess but it doesn't even have that level of quality let alone to me I had more fun with Red Steel 2 on the Wii and that has no climbing but has better button and motion control balance for a sort of lower scaled Borderalnds kind of motion control ramen western shooter by Ubisoft in their good gimmciky hardware use period (sometimes better than Nintendo and Red Steel 2 is the case of that) than devs that overcompensate with VR motion controls and puts me off.

Same with the Star Wars game, the reloading sucks and is finicky. Controls make a VR game worth it and in a way they overdid the motion controls to be as frustrating as 2006 Wii games. There is being immersive and just not making the button/motion balance FUN.

Whether Cosmic Smash is good I don't know but I know the Dreamcast game is. Even if it's stick use was awkward, VR helps I can tell.

The quality of the game is great, the small details are there but the core wasn't fun to play.

Making a high budget game for PSVR2 you never knew how well things would do and most went eh to the tech, eh to the userbase and even others went eh even the biggest VR userbase (Meta headsets) then just a bunch of demos prior on any VR headset let alone PSVR1 or other games many publishers go nah not enough sales. Well build them up then you idiot developers and publishers. MAKE people want to buy a console and a headset. Ridiculous. Software sells hardware. Offer more demos or VR modes via an update. Like come on. Could do it for PSVR1 but can't PSVR2. What a joke.

Then again GT7 'works' but I won't touch it. Has to have a progression system I'll actually enjoy playing before then but it's set in stone so pass. I'll pick it up cheap 2 years before the servers go down like I did GT Sport and buy it pre-owned.

Like just why? When you notice that side of things of staff/projects and where they go it just makes it more baffling and questionable. Moving staff to other existing studios sure, but forming new ones but still sticking close to the same parent company somewhat just seems dumb to me. Unless they moved to a cheaper area to setup the studio (even though they got bought way later and were still that related other than a few times of some projects) but I mean sure.

Kill all the peripheral stuff, kill all the creative staff for more particular games instead.

Sigh.

Well good luck staff in better places wish you the best.

@ROTTIEMAN16 I was talking about connecting a quest to a ps5. A quest pro has eye tracking. So, it could also support dynamic foveated rendering unlike other quest models. So, with a quest pro one would only loose the haptics of psvr2, HDR, field of view, and binocular overlap.

@TrickyDicky99 But then there are these absolutely fantastic games or better said VR modes only available to psvr2 (gt7, resident 4 remake, resident evil village, no man's sky. and now, I suppose, can also add Madison to that list). For some just gt7 or nms alone could be reason enough to get psvr2. Psvr2 is certainly expensive, has its short comings, but You won't get anywhere close elsewhere in terms of experience for the price of ps5+psvr2.

Obviously if everybody things it is failure and does not buy it, it will not sell.

@NEStalgia the quest3 only has better lenses and color cameras nothing else is better. The screen is only an lcd (no hdr and less bright, but does not suffer from mura). haptics are inferior, no eye tracking, smaller field of view, no display port. for quest different sacrifices were made, and presumably it is still subsidized, where psvr2 is likely not (psvr1 was not).

@gaston Much as I love deep blacks, despite mura, I really don't think "only" lcd is fair, modern lcd is very very good and oled isn't perfect in all things. But really the lenses are what harm psvr2 more then anything. You can have all the perfect screens in the world but when you put them behind cheap plastic lenses with terrible off angle focus, it doesn't matter.

Eye tracking however is great. Foveation is arguably unimportant outside weak hardware, on PC you can just brute force it with enough cash and render the whole thing high res, but eye tracking in certain games for the gameplay is as revolutionary as motion control. Legendary Tales selects your target based on which one you're looking at. Revolutionary right there. Other games have used it as a gimmick but that one just makes targeting work for ranged classes.

Having said all that, I do really prefer psvr2 because I really didn't like want Meta anything. And I don't have it problems others have with it. But those lenses.... It really makes it feel not premium but it has a premium price

@TrickyDicky99 is ps5 dead because there are more remasters than anything else ? Anyway vr is a niche less than 5% of ps5 owners have a psvr2 (not much different from psvr1), so it is not surprising that in terms of quantity there are also only 5% of games with VR modes or build for VR, and re4 just got its vr mode in december. Though, I agree that at the moment there is nothing big announced and the future is very unclear. But outside of some GAASs there is also little known about the future games on ps5.

@NEStalgia Personally I would say, what harms VR the most is not the display technology of any of the headsets, it is more that the majority of games on offer are quite a bit behind flat indie games In terms of art and audio design and also on the technical level. Anyway, I rather play a game with slightly low res visuals like the psvr2 versions of re4, re village and call of the mountain than playing a super highres, super sharp version of what the bat. There are outliers like red matter, which has a very good art design, looks apparently really good on all headsets and has very high resolution. It really hides its simple (less detailed) graphics mostly really well.

@gaston I wouldn't categorically say vr Indies are behind pancake indies. Yeah there's what the bat and mobile/wii kind of things but then there's also things like (ignoring games that are both flat and vr like re and nms) Walkabout Mini golf that is low poly by design. Sadly low res because it's just quest specs. But games like red matter honestly I don't need any game to ever look better than that even pancake, legendary tales looks great, a bit dated in poly but great, Cyube, Hellsweeper, Synapse, Light Brigade, dyschronia, Crossfire (ok not indie...) etc etc,

Personally as much as I love cotm, because I already loved horizon, technically the soft image and 60hz repro make it a game I'd want to spend less hours in than nms or any of the above. The sharpness and smooth motion feel more like I'm really in the place vs being in a vr game.

I what hold vr back is price, combined with a general dislike of being closed into a headset in general, combined with the fact that pancake trailers of vr games look garbage and there's no way to understand how good it is without already owning it. And even if it became so hd and detailed that the trailers look good, it still can't convey why you wouldn't just play it on a TV. It's a hard sell.

Well.... If Sony really wanted to make vr happen they have the tools. Just make stellar blade in vr and make it a free pack in. Add photo mode. There you go, psvr2 will become the best selling gaming hardware ever. You're welcome, Totoki-san.

@NEStalgia Certainly price and friction holds VR back but then also the lack of very recognisable, popular games e.g. ex-fifa, cod.

The VR enthusiasts were all hoping that the majority of games would get a VR mode. But apparently the industry thinks otherwise for some reason. If one looks at the numbers of e.g. re4 it seems that one could make back the investment in a VR mode but presumably not much more. So from a financial stand point it presumably is not interesting to add VR modes, which might be the problem. As a future investment and maybe just from the perspective of an enthusiast (which hopefully still exist in the gaming industry) it would make sense at least for titles which sell well and do not seem to throw in many obstacles for a VR adaptation e.g. car games with cockpit views). Also why not a VR mode for helldivers 2, and yes why not a third person VR cam for stellar blade ?

@TrickyDicky99 which is maybe not great but also not bad given that many people (20M) just got their ps5.

@gaston Maybe, but I don't see the FIFA/COD crowed, a group of very very very casual players that like to just flop in a couch and mess around with friends, being the group that straps $500 goggles on their head and lives in the world. They're looking for the most passive "interactive" entertainment as possible. A bridge between gaming and watching the boob tube. VR is the opposite extreme of complete interactivity to the point of replacing the real world with the game world.

But yea, I too hoped for VR modes in normal games. I guess the issue is down to pure business. Not many VR players, to real goal to sell more headsets, it isn't free or even necessarily cheap to add a VR mode, and there's basically no monetary sales advantage to doing it. 3rd parties, no chance. Sony games it would have been nice, if they intended to incentivize VR adoption. Which they seem to have no desire to do. At least Jim didn't, he openly said they were passively wating for someone else (Meta) to make VR big. Maybe the next leader will think more of it? Probably not, their main pancake business is in shambles and needs focus to repair.

The industry I think is in total meltdown overall financially, so I don't think I'd expect any investment in new directions any time soon, they can't afford the investments they already have for guaranteed sellers. I love VR, but I just don't see it growing outside of a little niche for a long time. Price, overall public interest being low, and a gaming industry that can't make ends meet even without introducing new tech with a small risky market.