Soulslike Lords of the Fallen Resurrects with 40% Higher Pixel Density on PS5 Pro

Isn't it a kick in the balls all these games are now getting patches which improve the experience immesurably? No more could be done for the base ps5 versions? Just give us 950 euro please for the privilege.

No.

@atthegates that's the glass half empty approach from someone who's not getting a Pro. I am, so my glass half full view is that it's great that devs are taking the time and the money to improve a game, sometimes a game that's been out for months and seen its sales tail off, just for a small subset of gamers that will benefit.

I hope all developers just drop support for the base PS5 as soon as possible and focus only on the Pro console

@atthegates that’s the whole point of PS5 Pro though, patches like these are easier to implement than ever thanks to PSSR, the devs don’t NEED to slave over the computers working the code to make things work, it’s a plug and play approach which thanks to the Pro will be even better on the PS6.

Devs aren’t doing this whilst doing their best Mr Burns impression against the players on the base PS5. If it wasn’t for the easy nature of the PSSR implementation and the extra headroom offered by the Pro, it wouldn’t be possible.

Hopefully come PS6 we'll finally be rid of the "quality at 30 fps" choice for 4k res in all cases.
Until then...

@DonJorginho @get2sammyb @riceNpea Considering most PS5 games don't push the base PS5's hardware anywhere near its limits the PS5 Pro comes across as a money making scheme meant to milk gamers' out of a large amount of money...

@get2sammyb No, but Sony certainly does. Edited first message since it was a bit vague as to what I meant.

@get2sammyb Speaking of devs: I wonder if the devs that stated that they "don't see the use of a PS5 Pro console since they didn't even reach PS5's full potential" are already among the first to make patches to improve their games, because on the Pro - they can.

@WiiWareWave if that was true we wouldn’t have games already struggling on the system (FF7 Rebirth, FF16, DD2, Monster Hunter Wilds, Elden Ring)

@DonJorginho I would hardly say they are struggling on the system, sure they might not run at a fluid 60 FPS, but neither did the vast majority of games on the PS4.

@WiiWareWave really? And how exactly do you 'milk' a gamer out of £700? That's not a microtransaction. That's a significant amount that people of average income would have to think about before spending it. It's the kind of price that an enthusiast would consider, not a casual gamer.

The market is full of devices of one particular model with various versions of the device at different price points aimed at different audiences, and yet if console makers do it, they're milking people as if it's not a choice. Nonsense. All perspective lost. If you want to moan about 'milking', complain about subscriptions to go online, the death of second-hand games, digital prices being kept artificially high. A niche console for a select audience is a choice, and beneficial because the base model has become cheaper in tandem.

@WiiWareWave the PS4 was never a 60fps machine though, by the time it launched it was already outdated with its Jaguar Core.

the PS5 is a great piece of kit but it’s not gonna be a 60fps machine the longer into the gen we go, that’s where the Pro comes in, that’s all you need to know to determine whether it’s worth the high price of admission.

@riceNpea When someone is paying a fortune for a mid gen refresh you sure as hell better get these qol upgrades. That's the bare minimum expectation here.

@get2sammyb I doubt that's the case, but honestly wouldn't be surprised if Sony's throwing around money to entice devs to make Pro upgrades for their PS5 titles.

@atthegates Lords of the Fallen already exists, the devs are now improving it because the hardware and tools to run the game better also exist. But this is a third party game, so i'm not sure why your comment exists 😅

The devs have no skin in the game from console sales, they are just taking the opportunity to make the game look or run how they wanted, now that consoles are what they should have been this generation.

@WiiWareWave if no games are pushing the console to its limits, where are all these miraculous improvements from first and third party games coming from?

The PS5 can't run any of these games without issues or graphical limitations, reliance on FSR 2 (which sucks at the resolutions the games are using) which is very much noticable if you game on a screen larger than a phone 😅

@Czar_Khastik Haha can't come soon enough lol

@WiiWareWave Yeah the limits have kinda been reached and its why most games have subpar image now.

@DonJorginho And for 99.9% of us a few extra FPS isn't worth $800...

@atthegates says who? I'm buying the Pro and it's not because I can play old games with better visuals. I'm buying one for future benefits, just like I do with all my consoles.

I don't buy consoles because it benefits old games, so I'm delighted that devs are upgrading these games but I'll probably never see it for myself.

@Ravix My comment exists because we know support for the base ps5 was already abysmal from third party Devs and after the pro comes out it'll go completely in the bin.

@get2sammyb @Shinnok789 Native 4K is such a waste of resources with AI-based reconstruction available - even people with the most powerful hardware still use reconstruction to 4K because the performance gains for the perceived exact same visual result makes native resolution pointless.

What good is having choice when PSSR gets to the point where reconstructed 4K looks identical to native 4K?

Not saying Sony can do much about it this generation since only the Pro has PSSR and games still need to target the base PS5. But on a PS6, there is zero reason for developers have a native 4K 30/reconstructed 4K 60 choice as they can simply target 60 using the highest graphical settings possible for the hardware and then use PSSR to reach that 4K image.

@Ravix Hard disagree, the only reason this is happening is because devs are aiming for 60 FPS. If devs aimed for 30 FPS which is 100% okay for the vast majority of us, the PS5 would be a long ways away from reaching its limits even for the biggest games.

Good to know if Microsoft ever stops making Xboxen we can still have console wars just with Sony consoles. 😩

@WiiWareWave it’s not just 1-2 extra FPS cmon now, you can criticise the Pro without being disingenuous

@riceNpea I'm happy for you that you're getting one. My issue isn't with that. I'm worried that because support from third party devs for their games was already severely lacking it's going to get a lot worse for the base ps5 after the pro release.

@atthegates AFAIK all games will need to be available for the base PS5 as well. Sony learned from Nintendo's mistakes with the New Nintendo 3DS as most exclusives for that had abysmal sales.

@DonJorginho I suppose I was being a bit harsh, so I edited my post.

@WiiWareWave Yep I think so but they don't have to run well on the base ps5. That's the issue.

@DonJorginho the ps5 will be a 60fps machine until its no longer supported but not in 4k. I mostly play in performance mode on the ps5 because i like my games to run as smooth as they can. I get the point you are making but I think the base ps5 will be just fine running games @60fps in 1080-1800p.

@atthegates Ah gotcha! Makes perfect sense.

@WiiWareWave I play a lot of games in 30fps, and I still think the PS5/series X generation has struggled for image quality overall. And 70% of people want 60fps, so are you saying to just ignore them?

If every dev was first party there would be fewer issues, but that is never going to be the case. We need consoles to do some of the heavy lifting if we ever want any games to release that arent total dumpster fires. And machine learning should be embraced for making it easier for everyone. When you get a PS6 you will be happy that the PS5 Pro existed, no doubt, as it lays the foundation for the future of how games will achieve a good image quality without costing them any performance.

@Ravix Not really since if it weren't for being gifted a PS5 I never would have been able to afford one, and from the looks of it PS6 is going to be pushing $1000 USD if the PS5 Pro is anything to go by. 😮‍💨

@Ravix I don't think the ps5 has struggled for image quality at all. I can't speak for xbox series x as I don't own one but the majority of all the ps5 games I've played thus far have all looked mint in performance mode and obviously better in quality mode. Granted there have been a few games that have looked a bit sub par image wise but I do think you are exaggerating a touch. Maybe I just enjoy my games too much to stop and scrutinise the tiny details.

You know it's funny when I was playing this game I was going to give it a solid eight but because of the pixel density I had to give it a 7.5. So kudos to the Developers for hearing the complaints I whispered to myself and actually dewing something about it.

@atthegates I understand you're worrying about that. However, that worry is not based on any substantive proof other than an opinion. It didn't happen in previous generations where there was a mid-gen refresh. So I think you'll be fine. PS5 will always be the platform where game development begins. If anyone should be worried (and I'm not) is Pro owners who may be anxious that the game won't receive extra attention, that costs time and money, to improve it just for a niche audience.

So seeing them doing it for old games is reassuring even if it not going to benefit me personally.

@riceNpea this is one reason I'm holding off buying a ps5 Pro. How many times have we seen a game launch on the ps4/ps4 Pro and the ps5 only for the ps5 version to have slightly better graphics,smoother performance and faster loading. The ps5 has been held back by the ps4 with the whole console parity BS that I'm waiting to see if devs will use that extra grunt to actually make native ps5 Pro games or if they just tart up existing games..I bet naughty dog already have ps5 Pro remakes for TLOU at full price again.

@WiiWareWave 1. It won't be, as the mainline consoles are mass market tech, meant to be bought by a hundred million + users across their hardware lifespan, whereas the pro is for enthusiasts and is the first iteration of machine learning amd GPUs, and the contract with AMD for PS6 will probably be a little different and be much more scalable.

2. It's probably 3 or so years away, so financially you can't really know what will be your own or the world's situation by then. But I'd advise not to focus on the negatives and what if's. Just get the most out of your ps5 (still a great console, even though I'm a little bit dissapointed from a nit-picky standpoint) and hopefully by the time the ps6 is out you will have had enough good times with the ps5 that it doesn't matter either way whether you get it right away or not.

In my current list of games I'm playing, TLoU, for example, even in performance mode in PS5 looks great and runs superbly well. Games that have struggled on PS5 like Dragon's Dogma II, I've still enjoyed immensely, even though i've noticed the bad points and would always have preferred better. Baldur's Gate 3 and Elden Ring were crazy for pop in, at times, but still by far my games of the generation.

@Northern_munkey I'll tag you in too, as the ending of my comment has a similar flavour to what you were responding to.

Image quality hasn't ruined games for me, as such, but it sure has been noticable to a degree I wasn't happy with. And I don't want to be noticing these things, especially in immersive games. It is partly my set up, my television has increased in size substantially since games like RDR2 were out and the PS4 Pro looked superb.

In fact, I booted up TLoU (ps4) on the ps4 pro the other day, just out of pure interest, and despite the improvements on the PS5 version, the PS4 pro had its own quality that still seems to top a lot of third party PS5 games. It just took what seemed like a billion hours to load 😅

I'd never stop to scrutinise details, either. That is left for the tech experts who have to analyse and make content. For me, it's just during gameplay something will knock me out of the moment unlike it used to, and when I go back and think about what the issues were, now I'm slightly more informed (slightly) I can say, oh yes, that is FSR2 that caused that in particular, for example. Or the reflections just aren't up to scratch. Some games without ray tracing can look pretty flat, too. And since playing TW3 with RT in the PS5 quality mode, for example, switching to the other mode just doesn't look right, to me. And for the pro, hopefully there are lots of games in the future where I don't have to wonder why it doesn't look quite right, or games where I'm taken out of the moment because of some weird graphical annoyance.

I will never understand the vitriol from people that have decided not to buy something. If it's not for you, cool. Save that money.

I will never not buy an upgraded console. I spend most of my leisure time gaming and I want the best experience I can have. I never regretted my PS4 Pro purchase and I am sure I won't regret the PS5 Pro. While improvements to past games are nice and give me a reason to go back to old games, or finish some in my backlog, it's what's coming in the future that I care about.

@Northern_munkey Don't think the PS5 has been held back that much by the PS4. The main reason it's lasted as long as it has is because of the PS5 shortages in the pandemic - I mean Sony gave the biggest signal by ordering another million PS4s to cover any console shortfall.
Going forward, we're starting to see some PS5 only titles emerge (not before time!) although so much of it seems like a PS4 title with extra shiny bits on it.
I'm not entirely convinced as to why some of them couldn't run on the PS4 albeit with lower resolution or frame rate but the devs have decided now it's viable or Sony have demanded, whatever the reason (Lego Horizon being a case in point).

I'm certainly not going anywhere near the 5 Pro but will keep an eye on the PS6. I have the old Pro which to me had a purpose but this 5 Pro just seems to be fixing all the shortcomings with the original 5 so is it the PS4 'holding back' the PS5 or is it the PS5 holding itself back?

@Northern_munkey it's a fair concern and certainly one I'd understand over what's been said elsewhere.

Seeing devs upgrade thier existing games eases my mind on that, and if its something that doesn't happen at launch but is patched later is still acceptable to me as the majority of games are not optimal at launch anyway so I tend to wait until I buy.

I love how the armchair experts bang on about 'not pushing the limits of the hardware' when it's obvious they're clueless about the whole thing. How are these measurements made? Who has made them? By what criteria are you measuring the scope of the limits you are talking about? Just becase a more powerful piece of hardware gets additional features doesn't automatically mean that the base model is being ignored. That's just a dumb perspective.

@Northern_munkey will it be worth the image quality sacrifices though? Even MHW, the performance mode is a blurry ghosting mess, and that will get worse for the majority of third party games as the generation moves forward.

I think the delayed cross gen period has perhaps made people have unrealistic expectations for the lifespan of 60fps gaming on the base model, at least with good IQ.

@DonJorginho I'm not so sure. Look at some of the games like horizon forbidden west,god of war ragnarok,spiderman 2 etc,etc..all have performance modes that are pretty much a rock solid 60fps and all look stunning and very sharp. Can poor optimisation on the devs part be blamed on the ps5's apparently ancient tech? I guess certain devs have a magic touch when it comes to wrangling the most out of the ps5 and some struggle. It'll be the same scenario with the ps5 Pro and ps6 where some games will look stunning and perform really well but some will flounder too and we will be having this discussion again. I hope you are right because it will be a great time to still be around gaming (I hit 52 tomorrow) and I'm hoping I'm here for a couple more decades at least 👍

@sanderson72 "so is it the PS4 'holding back' the PS5 or is it the PS5 holding itself back?" I think upon reflection it could be a bit of both to be honest.

@get2sammyb I cannot believe all these people do not understand all this. Do they really think it is the same console for 800€??? This machine kills a good gaming PC and is superrior to FSR...

@Czar_Khastik Alienate and abandon a user base of 62 million customers on base PS5 for a very expensive console that hasn't even released yet and will not sell as many due to the high price?! Great business idea by you.

@GoblinKid Well thank you, nothing less can be expected by a man with my name

@riceNpea
RE games not getting pro enhancements :

Like you have said, thats 1 thing im not that concerned about.

As i was saying on another article - in the same way Xbox have mandated X and S versions, Sony can mandate Pro and Base if needed (They may have already as alluded to by DF in one of their videos a couple of weeks back).

Even if we ignore this, and even if we are only talking 10% market - devs will not want to alienate customers (at least in AAA game space) by not including a significant enough Pro update.
With the increased console cost comes an increased expectation, and if a new game arrives without a Pro Enhanced mode, I for 1 would feel that its just not good enough, considering the money I have spent (and i am probably more realistic than some!).
Forgetting the naming as I think cross gen is the new norm, its not far from a PS4 game launching with zero upgrades for PS5 3-4 years ago when I had a shiny new PS5. My opinion is a very high % of pro owners will be very interested in what enhancements will be be made in future games, and the higher outlay cost will only exacerbate this.

I would also add that whilst not 100% comparable, it feels like PC caters more for the higher spec GPU cards than the lower spec, more common ones (and we have started seeing this creep into console, with some games not running too well on PS5 / Ser X).

@atthegates you expected the games to run just like they run on base console? Isn't the freaking point that better hardware should provide a better experience? Please, you really are waving that first to the sky...

@WiiWareWave
30fps according to Sony's own data is only used by 25% of people. As per Mark Cernys PS5 Pro announcement video.
Sonys own general useage data, as well as various polls including on sites like this one show that 30fps is not "okay for the vast majority".
Thats the main idea for pro - better image quality in 60fps(+) modes, whilst helping some games achieve a better 60fps lock.

RE PS6 - i dont think PS6 will be much above $600 (though they may well release a more expensive 'pro' model at the same time).
But at this price, given how the price of better tech is just not coming down hence the high Pro price, i wouldnt expect a big jump from PS5 Pro to PS6 in terms of raw GPU power either, but I would expect a greater reliance on AI tech such as Pro's PSSR and a much longer cross gen period.

@fabio78 No I expect them to abandon any optimisation for base ps5 and focus more on the pro because that's the easier thing to do. Just like they did with the PS4 pro. There were tons of games that ran poorly after the the pro came out in the last generation. And all of this long before the power of the base ps5 has been utilized properly by their first party studios.

Would rather see new gameplay mechanics than a couple more pixels in a frame which you can't even notice without zooming in