PS5 Pro was a '5-Year Project', In Development Before PS5's Launch

Makes it even more sad

This should have been what we got instead of the base PlayStation 5 but at a far more reasonable price because I definitely feel that the PS5 came out way too soon to retail. With how long the PS4 has been supported and the fact that hardly anything released over the last few years looks anything better than what the PS4 was able to do, there easily could have been at least 3 more years before the PS5 was released. Learned my lesson though, I won’t buy a new console now until the PS6 Pro.. maybe that will allow me to play PS5 games at 4K 60fps..

we will all have a ps5 pro because the PS6 will play ps5 games at ps5 pro settings

Does it not means that they had to consciously make sure PS5 is reasonably less powerful to keep Pro relevant?

The difference with the PS4 Pro is that it was only about £50 more than the base model, so as a result it was still very much affordable to your average consumer.

The PS5 Pro is almost double the price of a standard PS5!!!! £389 (digital version) upto £699

Just my personal opinion but for almost double the price I'd want it to do abit more than just make a few existing games look like slightly prettier

I thought the current strategy was "don't show, don't tell. Just profit."

This is standard for consoles, the PS6 was already in development when the PS5 dropped.

They should focus on PS6 singleplayer launch games right now, so it won't be that huge flop as whole PS5 era.

So PS5 Pro is basically PS 5.5
It's very FIVE of PS FIVE. 😉
But I'm already content with my PS5 Fat machine.
It has more cooler substance inside than the newest machines.

This makes it even more like we were scammed with the base PS5…
Gaming nowadays really sucks and I honestly can’t wait for the exclusively disc-less PS6 costing over 1000 euros, with minimal upgrades to the hardware (for the full next-gen experience just wait a couple more years for the 1500 euro PS6 Pro)

@vikramsingh they had to make sure it was attractive at $500 and they did.

Makes you realise how genuinely predatory the industry is. FOMO rules all, despite you honestly not having missed much at all between the last couple PS4 years and the PS5 Pro coming out.

PS6 a '6-Year Project', In Development Before PS5 Pro Launch

After buying a PS4 I upgraded to PS4 Pro because I could trade in my PS4 for the Pro. I traded in the PS4 Pro for the PS5. Now I will buy the PS5 Pro $699.00 with a $330.00 trade in discount. Buying the PS5 Pro upgrade for $369.00 was a easy choice. Plus now i have a upgrade path for the PS6.

Ps5 pro is what you should have got for the PS5 we all know this and it's a rip off selling it at 700

@Bionic-Spencer couldn't have put it better myself. If this and it's absorbent price were pre planned.. That's not a good thing and this idiot Said the quiet part put loud.

To compare the ps4 pro to the Ps5 pro is just ridiculous due to the price disparity to their base models alone.

Just say you planned to prey on your fanbase coming off the success of the last generation to the most greedy and slimey extent possible. When you saw the Ps5 selling like hotcakes during its release you chose to magnify that plan even more and ghost your fans along the way, Despite the first party software side being pretty weak and mostly cross gen.

And here I was thinking they just snapped their fingers and popped it into existence...
Too bad for the first party portfolio though, wish they had a better vision for that too, for the duration of this gen's lifetime...

Let's do some math. I bought the PS5 on release day for 500€. I sold it last week for 300€. I'll buy the PS5 Pro for 950€ (with stand and disc drive). In 3-4 years when the PS6 comes out, I'll sell the PS5 Pro for about 500€. All in all, 7-8 years of gaming on decent and still up-to-date HW will set me back about 650€. Is that a lot or a little? I'm a completely average, unremarkable guy from Slovakia and I work as an ordinary warehouseman. But I don't need to cry.

FFS.

In the words of Jim Ryan explaining the (initial early adopter period) success of PS4 Pro: "Gamers are not, necessarily, rational."

Well Sony took my money... only problem is the separate disk drive is out of stock everywhere 😅

I wouldve loved to get a ps5 pro but the price and excluding a disc drive is just insane

So many people forgetting this is standard practice in every industry. Sell a product with multiple tiers of quality. It's a choice. Such nonsense to call it predatory. Grow up.

@riceNpea they forget that phone markers do all the time I don't see no one moan about spending 1k on iPhone every year

"PS5 Pro should be the base version"

Some people are ridiculously illogical here 🤦‍♂️

If Sony announced PS5 with PS5 Pro specs and without disc drive back in 2020, the price tag will be around $800-1000.

Back then Covid made a negative impact to electronic industry with global chip shortage that made semiconductor price a lot more expensives. With $800-1000 price tag, i bet people will be angry and screaming from their lunge like Sony butchered their family and dogs lol.

Heck. People already b*tchin like nuts back in 2005 when Sony announced PS3 with $600 price tag.

@PCPS4XB Right. Unfortunately, it cost me approx US$650 where I live. The Disc edition. And had to wait until 2022, since it was perpetually out of stock.

@C25CLOUD you name the electronic device and it will have multiple version scaling in price. And that goes for almost every other type of product. Plus, the Pro coming out triggers a fall in the price of the base model.

6 days to go! Yeah I'm excited. Happy for those sticking with the Ps5 also

Sure it was 😂 damage control: people are pissed what do we say? Oh tell them we had this planned long before the original ps5, Sony sheep will believe it and we get huge bonuses this year! Lmao

The amount of moaning and whining in the comments here is becoming almost unbearable.

If people really feel this negatively, then either a) switch to PC, and let's see you build a similarly specced machine as the Pro for the same price, or b) just swap to a different hobby, videogames don't seem to be giving you much pleasure any more.

Either way, the Playstation community would be a better place without all the cry-babies.

Anyway, personally, can't wait for the Pro to arrive next week ... you know, because gaming is meant to be fun, and you should be happy about it!

@ecurb7 You said it perfectly.

IMO from what I have seen and read the PS5 Pro seems to be a great machine for the price. If you think it is not worth it, then just don’t buy it? The base PS5 or the games are not going anywhere.

@ecurb7 Agreed. While I do understand the complaints people have, I’m always quick to just say “I have fun” when commenting on these posts. I don’t play games a lot, and I don’t plan to get a Pro. I have older systems and consoles, nothing newer ones than a PS Vita. And I have fun and enjoy playing games. I’m not into all these new things, but I’m not going to necessarily complain. I just stick with what I enjoy and have fun.

Well of course new hardware is in planning well in advance, but this sheds an entire new light on the entire Cerny presentation when saying we "realized" how players didn't want to make the choice between performance and quality. It's clear how disingenuous this pr talk was. This wasn't reactive to consumer wishes, but rather a precalculated Achilles heel in the original system and exploitative of the consumer. I love the games, but Sony the platform holder and hardware manufacturer just stinks so bad.

Hope you're happy Xbox, see what happens when you stop pushing your console...we start eating each other instead of bashing Xbox users, as nature intended. 😋

/s

My only real question about this is why not just have gone with the Pro in the beginning? Why even release the base PS5? I get these things are always planned in advance, but if this was always the idea... Were they concerned over backlash over a high priced console like back when the PS3 was released? I’m not really sure how to explain what I’m trying to say.

@Bionic-Spencer consoles just can't handle true 4K at 60. By the time they release tech has moved on and they can't keep up with 4K. But tbh...native 4K is the biggest waste of resources in gaming

@LavenderShroud I mean something of the Pro's power would have been $12-1500 in 2020. The regular PS5 was good value at release. Tech always moves on and leave day one consoles lagging

@Rikyy literally this. Most of the comments are saying it's not worth it. It is. They just don't have a clue of the value of the internals. Don't buy one if you don't want it. Stop gatekeeping others

@PuppetMaster spot on I don't understand people. It'd be even more as well. The SSD alone is 150 cheaper that it was when developed and that's a beefy GPU upgrade

@tameshiyaku bingo

@Bionic-Spencer Not sure if ti would have happened. Imagine that this one came in the middle of the supply chain issues of Covid ... it would have been more expensive than now.

PS5 was an overpriced scam...
PS5 PRO is an overpriced scam...
PS6 will be an overpriced scam...

Do people not look at how prices across similar tech including PC (and phones too) are just not coming down like they used to.
Im not knocking PC either - this stuff is just not as cheap to produce any more on a component level.

If we want better hardware and bigger GPUs it costs more - PS5 Pro is a choice, just like a PC with a 4090 is a choice.

The only 'scam' here is devs who seem to automatically target only the top 5% of the market in terms of hardware power, with compromised versions for everyone else.

This take time to develop, this is not really a shocking discovery. I really don't understand why people think that the Pro being developed 5 years ago means that the OG5 should have been better. You have to realise that will also have been in development for probably 4-5 years before it released so it was being created roughly 9 years ago.

@LavenderShroud @Hairy_Potter @ecurb7 finally common sense prevails. I'm happy with my ps5 as it is at the moment and I'll upgrade to a ps5 Pro when I feel the need. I wonder how many of the negative commentators here are actually happy but are just being negative to fit in with the herd? If you are not happy with how things are then it's time to find something else to do that makes you happy..unless your new hobby has multiple tier pricing that are predatory and anti-consumer..Good luck👍

I remember through the years people talking about arrogant Sony, and yet I’ve never really felt that way like I do now.

I absolutely despise the silence.

This is really annoying because I can’t remember what it’s called, But Microsoft with their game plan or route where they’ve shown a lot of what they have coming and what to look forward to is way more appealing of a reason to get an Xbox over a PlayStation, BUT, They’ve made a horrendous step with putting their Xbox games on PlayStation because it completely removes the reason to get one.

Sony is lucky as hell that it’s playing out the way it is.

@Bionic-Spencer good that their is xbox and nintendo at least they offer way more powerful systems for a far more reasonable price, and then there fortunately the überpowerful PCs which you can either build for a fraction of the price (and power) or super powerful and only the price of one kidney and which only consume 1kW. It is only sony which somehow does not manage to create with current technology systems with the power of people's dreams and subsidized prices.

You want yer disc drive? Here's yer disc drive! * proceeds to hit customer with folding chair, then mugs them before running into a nearby crackhouse *

-Sony, probably.

@OmegaStriver Personally I don't mind it as we do know roughly what each studio is up to, they are just not throwing information at us until they are sure its good to go, Astrobot is a prime example of very little build up but it was coooked to perfection and is a very strong contender for GOTY as a result.

If you look at the MS roadmap they are constantly pushing things back on it by a few months here and there. Not to mention announcing a release date to far can locks publishers into having to ship games or get bad feedback for delay after delay.

Its a tricky tightrope but I think given the last few years I prefer the just tell me whats coming, when its coming as I don't need 18m of hype and everyone has a backlog regardless.

Who wouldn't trade their firstborn for 4K AND 120 FPS. I mean, wow how do they do it. It's a Pro thing, you regulars wouldn't understand. That Cerny is a straight up wizard or something.

Have fun playing with your Okama Gamespheres and Ouyas, haters.

@trev666
I was going to wait for the PS6, but after reading this story I think I'll just hold on a bit longer for the inevitable PS6 Pro instead.

@Futureshark

You are playing the short game there, partner. Everyone knows the smart play is to wait for the PS7.

ITT - people not understanding that the hardware division doesn't sit around twiddling it's thumbs for years, and are always working on something.

@Member_the_game to be fair they can't really do that much with future games until, you know, they actually release, so of course at the moment it just makes old games better 😂

So what they are saying is that I should wait for mid-gen PS6? If my PS5 Pro is good enough, maybe I will purchase my next console in 2035.

@Ravix

It will never have any exclusives though will it?

Every single game will be compatible for both the Pro and the base model, a slightly more shiny looking game that you need to forensically analyse to notice the difference, just doesn't justify being double the price in my honest opinion

I may upgrade once I see "live" demonstrations of it, but coming from an age where I paid £399.99 (equivalent to £971 in 2023) for my SEGA Saturn on release, it's difficult to justify a mid-gen refresh despite being in a fortunate position to grab one if I want to, but that is on me and my "old habits",

@MrPeanutbutterz I think we all understand that though. I think it's just disheartening that they could have been putting all their focus on a PS6, but chose a half gen refresh instead. And yes I get that this is technically work toward a new gen machine but this feels greedier for some reason. At this point why not just make the entire console modular and any time a component is improved upon just release it at higher cost, y'know, for the enthusiasts.

@Member_the_game and every game will be better on the pro. So what? 😂 why does it matter? Machine learning will be good for console gaming, without it we will be stuck forever in the ps4's extended era.

And people are stuck on this notion of forensically analysing. Games with more graphical features, better/more consitent performance, higher image quality don't need to be analysed to see the difference from the end user, it's only if you're making content about it on YouTube 😅

Basically what I get from this was they sold more PS4 Pros than they expected and so figured why stop there. Absolutely no hate or shade to anyone getting this refresh but do you honestly not feel a little milked?

@Ravix

Again you seem to have completely missed my point.

I'm not disputing that the games will look slightly better.

My question is, has the technology suddenly got Sooooo much better to justify being double the price of the base model, on which the games already look absolutely fantastic (in most cases).

There was an article on here a few weeks back about Ratchet and Clank and that it's hard to make it look any better because it already looks so good.....to me that just shows that the base PS5 is more than capable as it is, if the developers are willing to put the effort in and optimise to the full.

I'm sure the PS5 Pro will be a fantastic bit of kit but I'm sorry, we can discuss it all day long but you'll never convince me that it's worth almost double the price of the base model

@zupertramp Wait, you think the PS6 isn't balls deep into development? The Pro's PSSR is strongly speculated to be a test-bed for potential PS6 tech too.

How's it "greedy"? Your base PS5 (if you have one) still works the same. The entirely optional PS5 Pro existing doesn't negate it.

Why not make it modular? Because then you go from one fixed platform target (with another with "added bells and whistles" mode) to hundreds, if not thousands. That makes already protracted game development even longer.

@Member_the_game I'm not trying to convince you 😂 I'm wondering what you want the PS5 Pro to be able to do, other than make games look and function better? Make you afternoon tea? This isn't a debate on the cost, or it's personal value to you, it's about you saying "all it does is make games look better" (also perform better) but that's what every generation of consoles does, that is the point of upgrades, they... upgrade, so I was simply questioning that in a lighthearted way.

@Ravix

Perhaps you're not trying to convince me then (although when I said that it was probably more of a figure of speech than in a literal sense 🤣)

I'm not knocking anyone who wants to buy one, I decided more or less straight away that it just wasn't for me.

I just can't understand how someone at Sony has decided it's worth twice the price though lol

@UnlimitedSevens
You mean the PS7 Pro.

Like a few have said they kept ps5 under powered so pro would still sell?, so sad,
And with ps6 well into development, ps5 pro been the beta 🤣 well announcement november next year for release the following year,
So maybe we'll get some ps5 only games for our ps6 ??
Ps5 gen really has been dreadful, probably actually gonna wait on the ps6 and see if it's actually required to play any of the " ps6 games
"

@Member_the_game the price is the one sticking point, I'm not going to argue about that. They have clearly put it out of people's reach in some cases, and made it a much tougher (or easier) decision when weighing up its worth in others. To some it very much isn't worth it, to others it is. I think it's going to be a very nice bit of kit though and the upgrades will be worth it to a lot of people, even if it's not meant for the masses at the moment.

I wonder if this strategy gains them new customers expanding the player base to the playstation ecosystem or just making existing ones to double dip.

5 years only to fail really hard and upset millions is fans.

When the PS4 Pro come out it's was £450, £50 more than the £399 PS4 launch price.

The PS5 Pro is £830 and the launch PS5 was £430.

Absolutely insane. There's no logistical reasoning that makes this price ok. It's doubled the launch price. The price of the Yen and silicone doesn't matter.

@Member_the_game maybe check the current hardware prices? PS5 Pro’s price is pretty reasonable tbh. Also, it is not for the masses, so I don’t think Sony would be willing to sell it for a loss either.

Sony wanted to nickel dime peoples.playstation didnt even release ps5 yet and they started the ps5 pro.they knew ps5 was going to be not as powerful.its crazy.word up son

@Rikyy

All I can do is refer you to what the person who commented above you said.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts perfectly.

@Member_the_game and in a what way? PS5 launched in 2020 with a much weaker hardware. Now everything has gone up, including the hardware prices and frankly the PS5 Pro is priced pretty reasonably in today’s market.

@Rikyy

Answer me a serious question.....Do you genuinely think the Pro will be twice as good as the base PS5? and I mean seriously hand on heart do you believe that

Because they've managed to convince plenty of people that it's somehow worth twice the price (or as good as)

@MrPeanutbutterz do I think the PS6 is in development? I literally acknowledged this refresh was part of that development: "And yes I get that this is technically work toward a new gen..." Sigh.

And why does it seem greedy? It's not. Sony is a non profit and just wants to help us with more options. Their benevolence is particularly off the charts this gen.

Modular configurations don't necessarily prolong game development but if we are taking that position I'm gonna need to point out that a mid-gen refresh does the same.

@Member_the_game it depends on the developer and how they manage to use PSSR and the extra performance. In some titles you will get fidelity mode’s visuals but in 60 fps instead of 30. That’s twice as good to me.

But honestly, you can’t expect the Pro to be twice as good across the board. ”High end” is almost never the best value or perform ”twice as good” even if the price is 2x higher. This applies to GPUs, phones, cars etc. I think the Pro is still easily worth the money, and I will happily use it till the PS6 comes out.

I miss the PS1-PS3 era.
Where games became more impressive and ran better, further into the generation, when they really knew how to optimize for the hardware. Even though the PS3 was really hard to program, and the 360 ports turned out better, in the first half of that generation, eventually they really knew how to make games, that finally took advantage of the hardware.

All that sadly ended, with the PS4...
Now consoles, are just gaming PC:s, with their own OS...

And I bet it's just gonna get worse from here...
First PS6, then PS6 Pro, and then PS6 Pro Elite, for only $2000

Im not even gonna read all these comments, cause most already sound very unreasonable.

News flash, a lot of products begin years prior to release. And no, it couldn't have came out instead of the Ps5, cause then it would have needed to start production 5 years earlier than it had. And then the technology wouldn't even have existed.
And yes people forget, the PS5 was actually a good machine for the time and that price.

And for people saying PS5 came too early. No, it would be stupid to wait a year to release the PS5, because Xbox released theirs and that would have really taken a hit on their market share.

@Rikyy

I think personally I'll skip the PS6 and wait for the inevitable Pro version of that instead.

If the base PS5 launch is anything to go by, there won't be any exclusive games released for it anyway (at least not to begin with), everything will be cross gen so there won't be any games to miss out on as such.

Sorry I'm but still scared from the PS5 launch, it really annoyed me that I'd spent all that money on a PS5 and they pretty much still released all the same games on PS4 😂.... it's still runs deep

I guess I'm from a different era when you purchased the latest console for the exclusively of those games.... eg NES to SNES, then the N64 or PS1 to PS2

No such thing as cross gen in those days lol

@dellyrascal I may not understand it correctly. But shouldn't you sympathize with the mid gen refresh price wise? Seeing as you paid way more 30 years ago for a system. Compared to that, you must agree the PS5 Pro is actually fairly priced

@Member_the_game I think thats fair. I dont suppose Sony targets these mid gen refresh to everybody who already owns a base console anyway.
New costumers might still be upgrading from a PS4 or PS4 Pro.
I know i went from a PS3 to a PS4 Pro.
People are getting way too upset about a additional console that they don't intend to buy anyway.

Also, people who complain about new consoles not immediately having a lot of next gen only games probably don't get how expensive it is to make games now. This isnt the PS1-2 or N64 era. A typical game then took around 1 to 5 million $ to develop. So naturally they started developing next gen games earlier in the console life cycle than now. Its in no way comparable and people should really stop comparing those eras to present day.

@LogicStrikesAgain yes, they don’t plan to buy it + it won’t affect to their experience at any way.

@trev666 dunno man, they literally said only 20% bought PS4 Pro.. and that could output 4k and came a few years after everyone started upgrading their TVs from 1080p, so nice market.

The PS5 Pro is appealing, but between the high cost, unnecessary enhancements (still enjoyed obviously), and the disc drive not being included...... It'll sell fine, I just can't see it blowing up until the price drops significantly

@LogicStrikesAgain

I completely understand the logic behind why games are released as cross gen, though it doesn't make it any less frustrating when you've spent all that money on the latest console only to discover that you could have played the game anyway on your old one lol.

It's a lesson learned anyway, as much as I love my PS5 and play it pretty much on a daily basis I'll certainly be in no rush to dash out and get a PS6 🙂

@nessisonett from the sounds of all your comments on the Pro I'd say it's you who has the FOMO 😂 drama incarnate.

Didn‘t Cerny said they made the Pro because Players wanted more GPU Power? How could he know that five years ago when the base 5 wasn‘t even launched? 🤔

I mean he says a lot of things, like about those graphic modes: „removing this decision is a key target for the Pro“ and what do we have now? Even more modes lol

@zupertramp But you also said "I think it's just disheartening that they could have been putting all their focus on a PS6, but chose a half gen refresh instead", implying you don't think they're deep into PS6 development.

Are big bad for-profit corporation Sony coming around and smashing your PS5 with a hammer and making you buy a Pro? Or is the super-niche, super optional Pro a thing for people who want it?

Yeah, two configurations vs. the hundreds of a modular device. Sigh indeed.

So for next gen skip a launch ps6 and wait 4 years for the pro, got it

Microsoft skipping the mid-gen refresh could lead them to a better hardware position next gen. They have an opportunity to differ from sony. Ps6 can't be a lot different from ps5 pro.

Ah yes, the discourse here is once again reasonable, polite, and kind. No mentions of indentured servitude, selling a newborn or a kidney to afford PS5 Pro. No exaggerations around how miniscule of an update PS5 Pro really is. No unsolicited advice that people should just stick with the base PS5. That's why I like PushSquare, the haven of sanity and constructive discussions.

Please continue, I will be reading the comments here most eagerly next week while playing on my PS5 Pro and having fun, a word that surely still is in any dictionary in case you forgot what it means.

@ecurb7 Fully agree with your comment.

Well, I guess we can now all see that the PS5 Pro is what the PS5 SHOULD have been! We should have been calling the PS5 the PS4 Pro 2 and the PS5 Pro should be called The True PS5. Or at the very least we should now refer to the base PS5 as the PS5 Amateur.

Too bad it took so long but glad we finally got the The True PS5 in 2024! Now we can finally put the PS4 days behind us and start a new generation! I think it will be common practice for all future games to target 30 FPS on the PS5 Amateur and 60 FPS on The True PS5.

@Loamy I can't stand that guy. Such an end of a bell.

@LogicStrikesAgain I probably should have phrased that a little better. I was in a rush while typing!

I was referring (badly) to the shortening length of the console generations and how that makes buying a console a little more considered now that we have mid-gen refreshes.

I happily bought new consoles in the release window knowing they would lead the way for 6-7 years plus, but that has unsurprisingly changed now and that's where the pricing stings personally, but as I said, that's the "old habits" kicking in.

I'm not going to lie, when I check out my friend's Pro, if it is THAT good, then I will be entertaining a purchase, but that nagging timescale of the PS6 future release will be a counterpoint in the back of my mind.

That being said, regardless of whether I do or don't, I hope those that do pick it up, enjoy it immensely.

Disgusting. So they made the PS5 underpowered on purpose to not be able to run PS5 games properly, so that they can sell a new high end version later when the PS5 catalogue would start to show up. I now understand why people were saying to stick to the PS4 Pro…

@Loamy congrats on making his ignored list 👍

It's so funny to see people that have financial access and are not affected at all by the changes, like prices.

Not everyone lives the same reality. But it seems that a lot of people that will not have a problem getting a pro (or paying more for plus, or paying 70 or even 100 on games etc), think that no one has the right to complain or differ in opinion.

And Sony has been clearly crappy this gen. The discless pro (oh, what's the problem, I'm all digital anyways. Or, I'll just buy a drive), they just made the slim the base version and you can swap the covers with the pro? What? They changed where the hooks go so they don't fit? Dualsense got more expensive.

This mentality of not caring if it doesn't affect you is just crazy to me. If the numbers of people that get access to these products keeps shrinking, the prices will increase even more. One day, it'll be YOU moaning. Or, the industry won't be profitable enough. But yeah, poor people moaning.

I'm you tomorrow.

@Whately86 It’s when they act like your argument’s invalid because you bought a PS5 and they were expensive at the time. That was through months of saving specifically just for a PS5 and it feels like we’ve been scammed. Every aspect of the Playstation ecosystem has increased in price and yet the games just aren’t there.

@Anti-Matter I had the very same thought recently: My OG PS5 (1016A) has the biggest heatsink out of all the PS5s released. My PS5 has remained cool and silent in almost 4yrs. Will the PRO be as reliable in 4yrs?

@zupertramp You do realise that how you phrased it implies they've put ALL their focus into the Pro? ALL. To wit;

"I think it's just disheartening that they could have been putting all their focus on a PS6, but chose a half gen refresh instead"

If you wrote "they chose a half gen refresh AS WELL" you'd have a point, but you didn't, so you don't. Using "instead" after "all their focus" means you think that all their focus is on the Pro.

So don't you dare talk about MY reading comprehension when your literacy issues - the inability to communicate what you actually mean - is the issue here.

Bro. JFC. Etc.

@UnlimitedSevens LOL, yeah, I think it was actually exceedingly revealing, Jim's quote on that. It reveals how they view their own products. That was regarding the 4 Pro, which had more meaning than the 5 Pro, at a much lower cost difference to the standard console. Yet his comment revealed that they essentially thought the pro product had little to offer and that the sales were based on the irrationality of their consumer/personality flaws in the market. He'd continued about wanting "the best" basically simply because it exists. It was one of those few cracks in the corporate shine that shows the industry is aware of and actively exploiting known personality flaws in the video games market, just like the gambling, and for that matter, alcohol industry does. That they're doing it again, is fairly offensive. Of course, it did start under Jim if it's been there all along so we're STILL shoveling Jim's steaming pile.

@ColdHandGee I bet there is also liquid metal in the Pro instead of thermal paste, which hardens over time. Just dust your console regularly and it will be as quiet as when you bought it. The Pro is also just a 200 W machine, so I don’t think that the cooling or noise will be an issue lol.

Remember to not buy the PS6 since they will have this dialed back due to already having a PS6 Pro in the works. So by the sound of it the Pro versions of consoles will be the real new console. And the standard is just a small upgrade for people that can’t wait.

@Bionic-Spencer good points to make but I feel happy having bought a PS5 day one. Playing Astrobot day one was incredible on the dual sense and this base until will see love from devs beyond 2030 👍🏻

@Whately86 I am able to buy a Pro and in no way have i ever thought that people with less means than me aren't entitled to complain or differ in opinion. My reasonings have nothing to do with being rich or poor. I take each product and service and decide with a bit of research if i find prices are reasonable or not. I think everyone is entitled to their opinion. And so am i.

I see some of these prices as justified. Thats why i accept them. Has nothing to do with being poor or not. There can be products that are way over my budget. But i can still reason if i find those prices justified or not. Does not matter whether im able to buy it to have an opinion on it.

The Pro is priced a bit too high for my taste. But knowing a bit about component pricing, inflation, a non-subsidized pricing strategy by Sony for the Pro and seeing as i cannot find anything with those specs anywhere else for the same price or cheaper. I have decided that i find the price reasonable.

@nessisonett “yet the games just aren't there”

Do you only play exclusives? Cause there are hundreds of games to play on the PS5.

On metacritic, last gen had 33 90+ rated games for the whole PS4 generation.
PS5 already has 22 in the middle of this gen. And we’re not even in the last third of the gen, where most of the exceptional games tend to be released.

Now idk what games you like, maybe you're a picky gamer. Thats why i just went with the highest rated. They’re atleast critically acclaimed games.

Going by that, this gen might even end up having more high quality games than last gen. Still everybody saying theres no games. Meanwhile im here in backlog hell, every year, getting bigger and bigger

@LogicStrikesAgain If you look at exclusives, they’re either sequels to PS4 games that don’t meaningfully build upon the foundations of the last game (possibly cross-gen) or they’re remasters/remakes. Multiplat games aren’t particularly trying to make us play the PS5 version, it’s becoming another featureless grey box if we’re not getting novel uses of the rumble tech, the triggers, the trackpad and so forth. Factually, PS5 has games. Public perception though? PS5 has no games is a meme for a reason.

@nessisonett No games compared to what though? It has all the multiplatform games every other platform has, except for Nintendo. And even has console exclusives. PC doesn't have notable exclusives games to their platform, that could be called system sellers, as far as i know. Playstation atleast has noteworthy exclusives. Even if some of them might end up on PC years later.

Regarding last gen, i just talked about this in another post. But a lot of the critically acclaimed games from last gen were also sequels or games from existing franchises.
Examples: Tlou2, Red dead 2, Persona 5, God of war, Metal gear 5, Uncharted 4, Monster hunter world, The witcher 3.
Also remakes/remasters like: Resident Evil 2, Shadow of the Colossus, GTA5, Journey.

But im curious, since you say theres just no games. Don't you count multiplatform games? Or do you not play/enjoy those games?

Even if you only play exclusives, i’d still rank Playstation only second to Nintendo. With PC third and Xbox last for obvious reasons.

It just seems likea stretch to say theres no games for the PS5, when there are so many good games coming out every year. And yes, also new ips etc.

You say factually it has games, but public perception says it doesnt. Well i guess i’ll go with the facts then

PS6 Pro when? looking forward to the PS6 Pro Enhanced games #ifi'mhonestaboudit

Microsoft did this with Series S and X, but they launched both the same day, not 4 years later...

@tameshiyaku

It wasn't a precalculated Achilles heel. They could have easily designed a system that didn't compromise between frames and resolution, sure, but it would have cost a fortune and people would have been in an uproar.

They can acknowledge that they knew players don't want to compromise on their desired 4k/60fps AND design a far superior system to the PS4 Pro at the same time, while still not being able to totally address the compromises they mentioned for a reasonable price.

There is nothing out of the ordinary, contradictory, or sinister about this whole situation.

fairly certain less than 10% of all ps5's sold will be the pro variant due to the price tag and lack of interest. i hope it is FAR less than that so a pro lineup is no longer viable for sony going forward with the ps6. that means they will have no choice but to properly optimize their games for the base model. you know, the way console gaming should be...

better prepare yourselves for horrendous ports on the base ps5 now because developers have been paid by sony to shine a light on the enhanced ps5 pro features while the base versions fall by the wayside. we already saw evidence of this with ff rebirth, dragon's dogma 2 and presumably mh wilds among many other games. what a way to treat your customers.

@GreatAuk in the past all playstation generations (and most other consoles) sold at a loss, meaning Sony would loose money with each console sold, but made up with software sales. Yes, even the super expensive PS3 sold at a loss. And you know why? Because it was a meaningful generational leap. The PS4 pro was reactionary, due to the rising mainstream of uhd.
PS5 was a different strategy... we payed a pretty premium price for a device that's not a real leap from the previous generation and the platform holder already made good money without being forced to offer the greatest value to make those software sales. The ps5pro is hitting that originally advertised baseline for a super premium.

@Porco that’s exactly my fears. PS5 games are going to be unplayable on a base PS5. The PS5 was just a PS4 with a SSD and a fancy controller that just a few games really used properly. Honestly, I think that Nintendo and Microsoft have an open highway in front of them to capture all the PlayStation customers that feel fooled by Sony.

@tameshiyaku

You can get a PS5 digital for $349. That is a remarkablly good value.

There's no way that's not being sold at a loss.

And the PS4 Pro still had a platter drive. Eww. How is the jump from the PS4 Pro to the PS5 not a big one?

I think we're just hitting diminishing returns in terms of graphical upgrades.

The days of the jumps in graphics from the Genesis to the PS1 are over.

Now we're just upping resolution, frame rate, lighting, etc. These changes don't look as dramatic when comparing generation to generation.

Maybe that's having a psychological effect.

I think the PS5 was a good deal.

Well, I had the PS5 since launch day.
Really well built, never skipped a beat. It plays PS4 games better than the PS4 pro could, so I've been happy with my purchase, and didn't mind when the price went up by £50, and back down again..
I am a total 'fanboy' and have had several of every playstation, including different region models to play games early. I have an embarrassing amount of controllers for the PS3, PS4, and PS5, none of which have ever got any drift.

I'm the perfect playstation customer. But I won't be buying a pro, despite having a really good 120hz VRR 4K TV..

I just hope that the people who have bought one get their money's worth, as I feel that it's not a big enough increase in specs to justify buying a new machine when mine is just fine. I'd love performance mode FPS with graphics mode visuals, but I'm not biting on this one...

@Porco Why would developers create lesser versions on purpose for consoles with the biggest market share? Don't you think studios would want to get some profit back for all those years of development costs?

@B0udoir Really? May i ask why you think that and may i point you to my post above while you contemplate it?
I dont think you have so much to fear. The PS4 Pro didnt cause studios to suddenly make poor versions for the base PS4.

And i hope you see the irony in your mention of Xbox. Cause they have been forcing studios from the start to make crappier versions of their games for their weaker console since launch.

@LogicStrikesAgain yes, you would hope that publishers have more integrity than to leave its customers out in the cold... its not so much that the developers have malicious intent and saborage their own games... but they sure as hell won't give the base build as much time and resources if the ps4 pro era is anything to go by. sony was solid with its first party efforts, but many 3rd party devs let things slide when they shouldn't have once they realized that they could brute force their way to victory with the extra power of the pro. the real problem is that people will purchase a given game whether it runs well or doesn't if it is something they are anticipating. many gamers can't help themselves but pre-order afterall. they get what they are given. cyberpunk already proved this.

@Hairy_Potter
First, almost nobody could get a PS5 on day one. Let alone for €500,- so don't pretend that was normal. I had to wait a year, and buy a bundle with a game and controller, for €870,-.
Second, no, you won't get €500,- for your PS5pro in 3 or 4 years. You don't need to cry? Wow. Such a big boy. But it sure does seem like you need to rub your own luck in other people's faces, and pretend like that's what it was like for everybody.

@nessisonett
Yes. The reason being the ongoing console war. I am pretty uncool with SONY as of late. But plenty of third party games make really good use of the dual sense controller. Plenty of games make an effort to look and run great on PS5. Devs love it. The people complaining the most about a lack of games are nerds like us, on both teams.

@Porco PS5 Pro is expected to sell only around 10 to 15 million in lifetime sales. Base PS5 already sold around 65 million. Probably selling more than 100 million in lifetime sales. Why do you think publishers wouldn't put their time and resources in optimizing games for the base?
Ofcourse they would do their best for that version, publishers want to make money on it. They cannot cater only to the Pro version which can only be sold to a very small market.

Problem is, by the time this gen probably ends (end of 2028?), the base PS5 will still be equipped with an equivalent of an RTX2070. So naturally as game engines and ambitions progress, the base is not going to be able to play the games as well. Were already seeing the start of it now with games not capable of handling these next gen engines and technology. Heck, even some higher end PCs might be struggling with Epic coming out with tech after tech that improves realism and graphics.

At the end of this gen, you might even be happy that there is anything like the Pro in the console space, cause base consoles with their specs are hardly going to keep up with some of the games. Imagine how demanding some of these games will be in 3 to 4 years. Obviously depends on what type of games, you will always have plenty of more stylized, AA, indie or less demanding games that will still look and play good on the base.

Cyberpunk is not a good example btw, cause that launched poorly on both PS4 and PS4 Pro. Why? Cause they obviously switched their target to being a current gen game, therefore all last gen versions weren't given that much attention.

@LogicStrikesAgain

If you can pay and think a pro is worth it, good for you. Be happy because you think it's worth the $700 fora top tier premium product that doesn't even come with a STAND, which the OG came with. Doesn't even come with a DRIVE, which the OG came with... Just keep supporting Sony all the way, no matter what (at least, from the points your try to making other comments, it's what it comes across as).

I think it's just ridiculous the price gauges, $700 for a pro without a stand or disc drive, most games this gen being cross gen, lack of Sony exclusives, lack of even news of what's being cooked by Sony's private dev's (oh, sorry, we got Concord's brother coming, thanks Sony).

Me, personally, feel like I'm being made a fool of. I have never spent so much money on a videogame (got a 2 tb ssd, controler charger and extra controler - which they still use the plastic crap part for the analog when we've had hall effect for years, just so they can milk us. Even their PRO CONTROLER doesn't have hall effect, but rather they sell their crappy plastic parts so stupid people can just keep spending - )

I'll still play, because I have this console, I've had the Ps4 and, for now, will keep making use of it. But in absolutely NO WAY am I satisfied with Sony, at ALL.

But please, be my guest and keep cheering and celebrating this crap generation and these stupid greedy choices Sony makes.

@Whately86 It feels like you’re yelling at me with all the caps lol. Try and relax. You don't have to buy the Pro if you don't want to. You’re fine with a base console.
Look i know you want consoles to remain cheap, perpetually hovering around the $500 mark, but that isn't how inflation works unfortunately. This console isnt being subsidized by Sony like previous consoles. Cause that strategy only works if you expect a console to sell in very large volumes, making the loss worth it.

They are actually selling it now for what its worth, with a little bit of profit on it. The way most products and services are sold. Thats basically how business works. Buy and sell at a profit. Im not saying i like it, but thats the way it is. Now if you don't think its worth your money, i would seriously suggest moving on.

@GreatAuk https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/4/22609150/sony-playstation-5-ps5-loss-profit

The jump from ps4pro to ps5 really isn't that remarkable if you see games like Ragnarok, forbidden west and now jedi survivor.

Also, no matter how much "cheaper" a discless version becomes, it comes at the heavy price of withdrawing one's consumer rights of what one can do with his purchased game and in the long run giving companies the go-ahead to have us not owning anything in the future.

@tameshiyaku

It looks the PS5 disk version sold at a loss a bit longer than the PS4 according to the article, so there's no difference there at least from the previous generation.

Probably the disk version made it to profitability faster than the digital version because the disk drive is like 20 bucks and they sell it for 100 dollars more.

And that's at 499, I bet the current 449 is now cutting it real close. Digital at 349 is a steal man, come on. Just the very high quality controller included in the system third party would be 100+ dollars.

You're looking at a PS5 digital system that costs 249 (sans controller.) For those graphics? Incredible deal.

I'll agree with you that not having disk available opens up doors in the future of the likes you mentioned, like games vanishing.

At least we can still buy the attachment.

@LogicStrikesAgain why wouldn't they put the time to optimize? many reasons.
1.sony is putting a lot of marketing bucks behind ps5 pro enhanced games and publishers will be compensated for their efforts with various business deals. the pro will be the new hot toy this holiday season and sony needs to find reasons to sell and in some cases re-sell people on the ps5 again.

2. as i stated previously, publishers will make their money regardless of how poorly optimized the base version of the game runs. most people are not going to watch DF videos to verify what it is that they are buying, nor will they protest if the performance is bad — only a vocial minority will complain AFTER they hand over their cash.

3. if the spec requirements have shifted with the introduction of the pro model, there is less of a reason to optimize for the base because it is that much easier to brute force their way through development with the pro and then simply remove feature sets for the base as they near completion. i'm sure s-e knew about the ps5 pro's specs during the development of ff rebirth. it never should have gotten released in its current state, but knowing that the pro was just around the corner, they settled with such disparity and compromise, while cheating its customers.

i don't buy the argument that by 2028 the console hardware would be too old and outdated. console gaming was always about a 5-10 year life cycle on the same piece of technology and hardware specs. since developers would spend so much time with the hardware, performance and ambition would steadily increase due to their improved knowledge base and familiarity. if you compare ps1, ps2 and ps3 launch games with those from the end of the life cycle, it is a night and day difference and never fails to impress me. that is what has been lost in the console space thanks to the introduction of the pro model(s) and trying to chase tech trends. what you get now is a box that never truly reaches its potential. you often get sloppy code and lazy developers who are tapping out without much thought to optimization. this is why pc has so many problems (due to the myriad of configurations available). that curse has found its way to the console space now.

all that is to say, if a smart developer works within its limitations of a single hardware spec, there is no such idea as "too demanding" (within reason of course) because they will usually take all necessary steps to make it run adequately. that is what game development is all about. these days, devs are trying to get away with a one size fits all approach and we have seen the results.

sounds like you have given cdpr a free pass for that disaster of a game . they didn't have a clue on how to optmize it due to their lack of knowledge in the console space at the time (being a pc centric developer for many years prior to the witcher 3), project mismanagment, marketing deception and a complete disregard for their customers. it was not the fault of the base hardware in itself that set them back. look at the switch... if you want to talk about archaic tech that somehow managed to run "impossible ports" such as doom (2016), doom eternal, alien isolation, various metro games, witcher 3 etc, then look no further. compromises, sure, but if there is a will, there is a way.

they have barely scratched the surface of the base ps5 and unfortunately we will now never know what it is truly capable of.

@BrettAwesome I ordered my PS5 on September 17, 2020 at a local retailer just after midnight as the Sony Showcase ended. And I got my console the first day it was available here and that was at the global launch on November 19, 2020. That retailer also does a buyout of used consoles and gaming accessories and then resells those as used merchandise. In practice this means I brought my four year old PS5, in its original packaging, nicely cleaned. The technician plugged it in and checked it. It took about 10 minutes. He printed out a bill of sale and paid me cash actual purchase price and that was 300€. I'll do the same with the PS5 Pro when it's time. I've had that experience, you might have a different one. Everyone arranges as they know how.
Have a nice day.

@Porco Im just a bit confused by some of ur reasoning. I feel like you make a lot of assumptions about things. Im not gonna react to everything but only to some things that stand out to me.

You’re reasons about why studios and publishers will not care about optimizing for the base console i just dont buy. It might happen here and there. But i think it doesn't make financial sense for a studio to purposely put less focus on the version that has the most potential for sale. A game that is very unoptimized can get a lot of negative attention, which can be very damaging to its sales. So seems very counterproductive.

Like the Square enix example you gave, about purposefully creating a lesser version of FF Rebirth because they knew there would be a Pro. Why would it be in their interest to have all that negative focus on their game? It has only negatively impacted peoples perception of it. And if i understand u correctly, they do that cause they want to put their focus on the Pro, while theres not even a userbase for that console.

You compare game development to the PS1 to PS3 era. Saying games looked better at the end of that era and therefore thats proof that developers arent maximizing the power of the PS5. Ignoring the fact that systems were very different back then and they really needed years to figure it out. While systems now are more PC like, so less figuring out.

Also you call studios and developers lazy and again compare to previous eras. But fail to understand that game development has increased in complexity and takes almost double or triple the amount of time than in those days.

Then you say i give a free pass to cdpr for cyberpunk. Why?
I just said that your comparison wasnt accurate. Cause you were arguing that studios focused on Pro instead base PS4. I was merely saying that in that specific example it wasnt accurate, cause both PS4 and PS4 Pro versions werd inadequate.

End of the day, if you think studios will focus more on Pro versions and neglect the base version, thats fine. You decide how you act with that knowledge. I’d advise you to see if its true first before making judgements.

@tameshiyaku Exactly!

In terms of tech on sale or agreements and other things for 6-7 years sure but otherwise similar specs to Xbox twice or not the Pro is eh of just enhancements of GPU, RAM and CPU and others can't be changed because Devs need it to stay the same for their tools to work (besides enhancements of course offer more to scale with) but the GPU upgrade to me isn't worth it. Just waiting till PS6 instead is.

The other tweaks sure and like 32X was something to prep people for the Saturn but at the same time do we really need these if 1st party work around performance modes well but third parties don't and ask way too much of the hardware, PC or console it's just silly.

Too much hardware chasing is what it looks like, too much forcing things to happen, then the next one, still not good enough, then the next one, not good enough again, the next one over and over. It's just ridiculous.

Work well with what is given and agreed on when asking devs what they what for a few years, not always pushing it way too far. If we got better game design in the past, better experimental game design in the past, it's why I want to play them. Not these generic worlds I see in 2 seconds and go nope. Sees the movesets/abilities, nope. Sees the mission design in an open world or linear game, nope. Sees the setting/characters/story premise, nope.

I don't want a country recreation or the planet and boring missions for open worlds on foot/vehicles or others by PS7-9 let alone PS12 probably with that much power if they don't go oh well we can't do that yet when they can they just want it to be super sharp at 32K like come on it's ridiculous, some games with particular artstyles could do it but it's not good enough for devs wanting near realistic artstyles yet the functionality of the game feels like it's way behind but who cares visuals over clunky gameplay and eh character weight/physics and more right? Exactly. I don't even want a simulation either.

I just want gameplay to be fun in games, but it isn't these days for me so I'm not even interested in PS5/Xbox Series let alone 90% of games at all Indies, AA or AAA 1st or 3rd parties, only very few appeal (which is fine that's all it needs to be in some cases I don't need to play every game, but it's more narrow then any retro games with more exciting mechanics and features to their level design or characters to play as) because of their other priorities that aren't gameplay focused of story/visuals and boring worlds/themes/settings for casuals to be easily understood, the imagination or gameplay side just got weaker and weaker to me at least which is why I go older gens is the ideas were better. XD

Not nostalgia, not Astro Bot museum type game I don't want to play. I want better original ideas, not original assets but too heavily inspired by others or good enough spins on games not trends so pathetic I can see them easily and skip them.

@LogicStrikesAgain

So if subsidizing the console is meant for said console to reach more people, then makinga console more expensive is clearly reducing the nyumber of people who will access said console. Seem we do agree, although you're on the margin with more money and unbothered. I'm pissed with Sony. It's a downgrade path. No disc, no stand, no new game coming out to really showcase the 700 console's power. All games Sony is trying to get us excited for are games that already came out and will look a little better.

If you're satisfied, great for you. I'm not. Enjoy paying more an getting back less each turn around.

@LogicStrikesAgain It seems, at the end of the day, you're all in for their greedy decisions. Good for you.

I will be moving to PC next gen. Screw Sony.

@Whately86 Oh if business was only as simple. No its not just a matter of subsidizing prices and it will be a success. First they do extensive market research. For the PS5 they probably predicted that it will sell in large volumes, around 100 million or more. For the Pro, being a niche product and having the experience with the PS4 Pro and how much that sold. They may have decided to not subsidize it, because if it sells low as they expect it will be a huge loss for them. Obviously this is all speculation.

You make a lot of assumptions about me and seem to think u know how i think about things. But you dont. 😉