Sony's Pricey PS5 Pro Is Now Being Outpaced by PS4 Pro Launch Aligned in the US

$700 is a hard sell when most gamers agree that the games look “good enough” on the base model.

Throw in the fact that there’s no disc drive or stand included.

Enjoying mines, also resell value will be higher when ps6 arrives 👍

From what the fellas at Digital Foundry say, Sony are going to find it difficult to make the PS5 for cheaper, which is how they’ve been able to swing price cuts in the past.

There will definitely be people who will be getting a PS5 pro just to play GTA 6 on launch day. Even more if it’s not released on PC on the same day as consoles 👀

PS4 Pro was only £50 more than the base model so it was very much affordable to anyone who wanted to treat themselves or just spend that little bit extra.

Assuming you only want the digital version, the PS5 Pro is more or less double the price of the standard PS5.

Once the diehards who simply have to have the latest tech regardless of cost have bought one, it's a hard sell to you're average consumer

Unsurprising. But I think with heavy hitters like Monster Hunter, Yotei and potentially GTA 6. the Pro is in a better position as PC gaming prices for similar specs and quality is more expensive. Not to mention I wouldn't be surprised if Sony's margins are higher with PS5 Pro than PS4 Pro (HW profits were something mentioned in the quarterly reports).

The pro just isn’t required. The base ps5 is hardly being used to its full potential yet.

The only way they gonna sell a ton off ps5 pros if sony make it so that gta 6 comes on consoles first which I think it took gta 5 2 years to come on to pc so if that happens or something similar expect even xbox series x console to sell more as well

Keeping my ps5 when they release the ps6 they aren't catching me again. Had my ps5 day 1 & it's still not really got going , I mean we lost over 2 years to COVID. Some people are only getting ps5s now & there talking about ps6s nah I'll chill with my ps5 for a few years yet.

The lack of a built in disc drive killed my interest for it.

Five years into this generation and the distinct lack of first party titles (or killer app / system seller) from Sony is ludicrous. Hence all the remakes/remasters and crappy live service games. Software > Hardware. Should've got Rockstar Games to launch GTA6 alongside the PS5 Pro. Missed opportunity.

The PS5 has been a very disappointing console to those of us old enough to play the generations that came before. I don't know why i would want to drop 800 on a machine that makes the graphics slightly clearer.

I go back to the pong days, and going on memory which isn’t the best.
This generation has to be one the most:
Expensive
Unexciting
Weird
Messed up

This is based on Sony and Microsoft, every has gone quiet, no great shows like the old days, who remembers those amazing GOW and Uncharted 4 and last of 2 stage reveals.

I think it’s all about for the companies and I guess like in life, more so Europe it’s all about every single penny and bit of money either to make or not to spend.
I personally think we are being mugged off this generation and the greed of these companies is really showing through and the amount we are not getting but paying more for and the corners these businesses are cutting to make a bit more money is there to see.
PS4 was for the gamers
PS5 is for Sony.
Xbox was for Xboxers it is now for Microsoft.

@LifeGirl that's not right. I'm 38, I played PS1 as a kid.
I don't think the PS5 is disappointing.

@jFug absolutely and they don't even do a good job in making people want the Pro. There's no commercials or stuff.
Besides the little stream last year, it's just there, too expensive and not many people want it.
And when I hear that games have still problems on the Pro, which aren't on standard PS5, it feels like an expensive joke.

Lots of people are missing out, although I can imagine the price makes it less appealing. I was baffled by how good it looks and feels. I was expecting a small upgrade and feel like I’m in a whole new generation. Trading in my base PS5 and Series X was the best decision I made in a while.

@LifeGirl That’s just your opinion. I’ve owned every PlayStation and Super Nintendo before that, but PS5 has been my favorite generation.

The diminishing returns are hitting hard. You really have to have an expensive TV to make the PS5 pro worth it. And even then, I couldn't tell you at a glance that the game is being played on a pro.

With the PS4 pro you might get it for the 60 FPS alone

@Darude84
The PS5 is the same as the top end Sony TV A95L QD OLED.
It’s the best you can get but dam expensive.
Are they both the best in their respective fields of entertainment, YES.
Does the average person care or really really notice the difference, not really.
Do my tech friends notice the difference yes.
They are both made for us and a niche market
And I’m not slagging Sony as I have both Pro and A95L.

Pro is rather enthusiast thing. Contrary to PS4 era, this PS5 brings especialy higher price rather than higher experience. But it all doesn't matter while this or next year we get PS6.

@Boxmonkey the 6 year old SOC of the PS5 is being used heavily already. The learning curve isn’t as high as older more bespoke consoles like the PS3/PS2 which had a higher learning curve to get near its theoretical processing capabilities. Optimization is key and the newer games that are only current gen do look good. But expecting a lot of unused overhead on this SOC to appear is unlikely.

@Darude84 interesting that you say the PS5 is your favorite generation. For me the best generation was the Xbox 360 /ps3 era. As we had so much variety from big to small titles. Virtually every taste was filled IMO.

I don’t understand the worry surrounding the pro. Many products have tiers. I.e BMW and their 3 series. Most people won’t be getting the top M3 but there are enough people willing to pay for what it has. I also see the pro as a R/D product for Sony on the market for the next PS6. The next PS6 will likely be more expensive because of inflation. And gaming hasn’t really kept up with inflation either plus nearly all chips are made in one of two places. So competition for line time is tough.

@Boxmonkey People keep saying that to justify not buying it. It is needed if you don't want to play upcoming games at 30 frames.

Ps4 pro cost the same as the base ps4, with ps4 receive permanent price cut, and ps4 pro is needed for 4K resolutions for tv. Where as ps5 pro cost friggin $700, while the base ps5 can already play most games at 4K or at least 1080p & 60 fps, it's no brainer people find less value for ps5 pro 😕

Stripping out the disc drive, the stand and charging $700… 😂 I want whatever Sony was smoking when they thought this was a good idea.

What does this mean for the PS6? They’re going to have a hard time trying to convince regular gamers and parents to spend this kind of money for such a minimal upgrade. Especially when the quality of their first party output isn’t what it used to be either.

Sales for this thing were always going to drop after the launch period. Entusiasts have already bought in.

It's simply way too much money when sitting on the shelf next to the base PS5 at nearly half the price.

It's clearly designed for a niche market (which I'm part of), the PS4 Pro was a significantly cheaper investment and aligned nicely with people upgrading to 4K tv's. The issue for PS5 Pro is that realistically you have to upgrade that TV again to really take advantage of it and the differences so far aren't necessarily that big but it's still early days.

Though in general I'd say we've long since hit the point of diminishing returns, with only RT making a big impact over the last few years

@carlos82 same here with the TV

I never owned a PS4, but loved my PS4 pro. I had considered buying a 5 pro (I have the basic 5), but decided, along the missing disc drive, that I should also upgrade my TV and this is a bit too much.
And yes, games are still looking amazing on the base 5.

@LifeGirl

It's not about graphics being 'clearer' - it's about the higher frame rates. If I can play more games at 60fps (maybe even 120fps) over 30fps, then it's definitely worth it.

As for price, yes, it's expensive, but I sold my base model for £300 on Ebay, knocking it down considerably. When PS6 comes out, I'll sell the Pro and recoup even more of the cost. It's the circle of (console) life!

@Darude84 Why is the PS5 your favourite console of the five though? I'm not arguing, i'm genuinely interested.

@Nintendo4Sonic same here. But I always appreciate it when people speak for the rest of us.

Honest question to the people that say this generation has been great. Can you list the great games, system selling IP’s?! I keep hearing that this gen is great but I can honestly say I’ve not felt the urge to buy anything other than indie games.

Gow and spider man are the only games I can think of (neither of them interest me)

@LifeGirl It holds the most games that made a lasting impression on me. Death Stranding, Returnal and Elden Ring are all in my top 5. And lots of really great games just behind, such as Gran Turismo 7. But also PS VR2 opening up a whole new world of gaming for me. I never gamed as intensively as the last four years.

Edit: This was just on the games side. But overall I also really enjoy this generation because of the hardware. Almost non-existent loading times, the amazing dualsense with haptic feedback, 3D audio and great styling of the console itself.

@Darude84 not to disparage your favourite generation being PS5 or anything, but aside from PSVR2, three of the four games you've named are playable on PS4.

Edit: I rescind based on your edit around the in-built SSD benefits (loading times etc)

@Boxmonkey It's fair enought if those IPs do not interest you but they are huge system selling games.

Off the top of my head, some big games this generation:

God of War Ragnarok
Spiderman Man 2
Horizon Forbidden West
Balders Gate 3
Elden Ring
Returnal
Astro Bot
Gran Turismo 7
Kingdom Come Deliverence
Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth
Metaphor Refantazio
Demons Souls
Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth
Stellar Blade
Final Fantasy XVI
Jedi Survivor
Silent Hill 2
Dragons Dogma 2

If none of those appeal to you then, again, that's fine. However saying there are no interesting AAA games this gen is misguided at best and disingenuous at worst.

I know most of these are available on PS4 also but that's the way things are going. Generations aren't defined as tightly as they used to be. These are all current generation games.

@kevinm360 I know, but that’s not relevant for my case. They were first introduced when I was already playing on PS5, so they’re this generation for me.

The price is ridiculous. It's the main problem. The base PS5 is already very expensive. The pro is just ridiculous.

It's not a big enough leap on frame rates or resolution to justify the premium price and it seems consumers are voting with their wallets

When the ps4 pro came out over here in the UK, Game our local games shop did an amazing deal where if you traded in your ps4 you only needed to pay £80 for the pro. If they had done a deal where trading in the ps5 and you just needed to pay £150 for the pro I would have done it and I expect many others would have too.

@Darude84 We'll have to agree to disagree on the games because you've mostly just named a bunch of PS4 games.

You couldn't play a PS2 game on a PS1 or a PS3 game on a PS2. The fact that it is now so easy to do so is a very obvious blight on the system imo.

@LifeGirl That makes no sense. You could also call them PS5 games that can be played on a PS4

@Darude84 I see that sentiment a lot. People need to get over the fact that generations are no longer as strict as they used to be. Incremental upgrades are the natural progression of things. When the PS6 comes out most of those games will be playable on PS5.

I was really happy with my PS5 Pro at launch, and I am still just as happy with it.
As we continue through the generation, I think it will become more necessary as games on base console struggle with stable frame rates etc.

• I am glad it didn't come with a Drive / vertical stand - I didn't have to pay for these (to me) unnecessary accessories, via the box price being higher. (The optional drive shortages are not good though)
• The 'cant tell a difference' etc comments are often imo sadly from people who dont have one. The difference is often pretty significant, and much bigger than PS4 to PS4 Pro in my opinion. The non enhanced game boost also seems to make a much bigger difference than 4 Pro too.
• it is unfortunately more difficult / impossible to show the difference on a Youtube video, particularly if viewed on a phone! And thats how some people make their comparisons.
• to get the best out of Pro at present, you do really need a 4K 120Hz VRR capable TV though.
• the price is expensive, but fair for the tech you are getting, particularly when compared to PC. Console / computer tech is just not getting cheaper like it used too. Improvements to the system mean that the running costs (power useage) are not as high as would be expected, and the cooling system seems much more robust compared to launch model.

@LifeGirl I've had (and still have) every major PlayStation console and the PS5 beats the crap outta it's precursor's, the Pro even more so. Admittedly development times have become far too long and if not for this we'd have more games, and I don't understand why Sony seem so keen to not lean on their massive catalogue of IP to make a few more pennies, but we've still had a fair flow of games, even if some of them have been remakes. But the PS2 generation will never be beat.

You know what's likely slowing the Pro's sales? Disc drive availability. It may not be the reason, but it's certainly part of it. I regretted being so keen to pick mine up because it took me until 2 weeks ago to get hold of a bloody disc drive, meaning I was just using my 'standard' one, mostly.

@LifeGirl I can't say I agree with you. I've owned every PlayStation and whilst I'll admit the lack of first party games thus far has been disappointing there are more than enough great games to be playing and having all my ps4 games that now play @60fps makes the ps5 my fave ps console.

@Jrs1 resell value will be higher when the ps6 comes? What universe you live in where the resell value of a console goes up when the next iteration arrives?

@LifeGirl @OldGamer999 @Nintendo4Sonic
Fair enough, but I have a totally different experience.
I'm with PlayStation since the beginning in 1994 and I really don't get why folks are so upset with the PS5 in general (not talking about the price of the PS5 Pro and the exclusion of a disc drive).
All I can say is that I really enjoy this generation and like my PS5 experience a lot.

Bought my base PS4 during a Black Friday deal in 2014 for £300.
Upgraded to the Pro a few years later as the base unit was getting a bit rattly and noisy and the Pro cost me £300 in a Black Friday sale.
Bunged a 6GB/s SSD in it's internal SATA port for £40 and, due to its super-sampling, the image on our old Sony 1080p TV never looked better.

We have a PS5 upstairs that cost £480 (thanks for your £30 price hike, Fony, which I still think I bought due to a fomo) and we now have a 2nd hand PS5 downstairs that cost £344, including disc drive and an extra 1TB storage that someone had forgotten to remove (nice) from Music Magpie in a Black Friday sale (you can see when I generally shop!)
Our 4K TV is only a standard 60Hz and it absolutely fine for watching TV on and using the PS4 Pro or the PS5.
The amount of upgrading required to see any benefit of the PS5 Pro (if any) would be colossal and I've certainly got better things to spend £1500 on (console + disc drive + 120Hz TV)

@OldGamer999 Apart from it isn’t the best. Not even close. Top-end PCs (even mid-range PCs) smoke it. It’s like calling your favourite fast food best-in-field. McDonald’s might make the best fast food hamburger, but there are other hamburgers that are 10x better. You’ll just pay more.

That’s why it’s hard to know who the PS5 Pro is actually for.

You think news/rumours of the potential release year of the PS6 has also been a factor in the slow down of PS5 Pro sales?

The mid-gen refresh is potentially becoming a late-gen refresh (or would that be a late-mid-gen refresh or a mid-late-gen refresh...).

@SSaunders1122 The universe where the resell value will be higher than base model 😉🌏

I jumped into PS4 generation late so I went straight to the Pro because it was a small price difference from the slim. If a person were to do the same now, it's quite a bit different. Heck, a lightly used PS5 slim with disc drive is under $400. That's close to $300 difference to grab a Pro and a drive.

I got my Pro day 1, I managed to get hold of a disc drive and I bought a few Pro enhanced games to put it through its paces.

I can honestly say that it is one of my least favourite pieces of gaming hardware I have ever owned.

The diminishing returns are just too great now to warrant the price tag.

@Jrs1 not at all what you said dude. You flat out said "Enjoying mines, also resell value will be higher when ps6 arrives 👍

Well, well, well. I hate to be this guy (actually no, I don't), but... called it. The pro model removed a base feature (the disc drive) and charged quite a large amount for that privilege. That coincided with a scalping debacle with the disc drive units sold separately.

I'm doubling down on my earlier bet this won't move anything close to the PS4 Pro, which itself didn't exactly burst doors down in the sales department.

Ohhhh Sony.

If I remember correctly, in the UK the PS4 Pro launched at £349 and around the same time the Slim launched for £259 so you could either have the new 4K-capable model for what the original PS4 cost about 3 years previously, or the newer Slim redesign of the same with a price cut.

Obviously all PS4s have Blu-ray drives as standard, although Sony didn't put a 4K UHD Blu-ray drive in the PS4 Pro which was a bit of a missed opportunity. The Xbox One X which released a year later had a 4K UHD Blu-ray drive but cost £100 more than the PS4 Pro. You did get an extra USB3 port on the PS4 Pro at the back, handy for hooking up internal storage without tying up the front ports and SATA-III for faster internal drive speeds as compared to either the original or Slim models, so arguably it balances out somewhat in terms of value despite that.

All of these options now seem like much better value at the time. They are arguably still are now considering you can get PS4 Pro and Xbox One X consoles for £100-£150 used and still play a lot of current games due to the overly long crossgen period and cloud streaming in the case of Xbox.

The PS5 Pro on the other hand has no optical drive of any kind as standard, costs double what the PS4 Pro did at launch in the UK, there are barely any PS5 exclusives and the few there have been are ported to PC about a year after release, doesn't have the 1080p to 4K jump "killer app" feature that sold a lot of people on the PS4 Pro, just PSSR and a slightly improved GPU which to me don't justify the price doubling at all. Oh, and doubled internal storage SSD space compared to the Slim but considering all PS5s have an M.2 NVMe SSD slot that's kinda irrelevant; cheap to buy and trivial to fit.

TL;DR

As compared to PS4 Pro, the PS5 Pro offers no massive visual improvement, an unreasonable price hike, no discount on the Slim model when it launched, no library, lack of a disc drive and scalper prices to buy one as they're out of stock often, and I personally would add badly made controllers that succumb to drift more readily than the DualSense 3 or 4 do which is additional expense. Look on the used market and see what I mean, it's very common to see consoles being offered for sale with non-original controller usually as the one that came with the PS5 in the box became defective.

Basically you can pay a lot more money for a console that relies heavily on the PS4 library, or just keep/buy a PS4 used for cheap and play PS4 games for a fraction of the price with controllers that, while they do succumb to drift, happens much more slowly than with the DualSense.

Sony HQ should be planning some type of price drops for when Switch 2 launches. I know a handheld doesn’t completely compete with a console but both systems will be competing for gamers money and attention. Unless Nintendo goes back to its non-existent Wii U marketing ways, but I have to believe they’ve learned from that blunder.

Switch 2 price is probably on Sony’s radar. $399 vs $499 for Switch 2 may make a difference to Sony if they need price drops or not.

PS4 Pro brought 4K gaming. This brings essentially nothing of a similar level.

@vyseofhr Yeah but top end PCs also cost triple or more that price. This the best in the console space. You can’t get these specs on PC for that price. And also being a bespoke console, games developed for it will always be made for that machine. Have you seen how games run on PC? Games for PC need to be made to work on so many different configurations, it’s never made for your PC specifically. Even on top high end PC games don’t always work well.

Overpriced and nickel and diming. I hope it fails to send Sony a message to stop being so cheap and charging for not only a disc drive, but a stand on a $700 console. Insane.

The price for PS4 Pro seemed right. I was able to sell my PS4 and use that money to buy PS4 Pro. There seemed to be quite a difference in how games looked on PS4 vs how they looked on PS4 Pro. With PS5, PS5 Pro is more powerful but visually I can't see the difference to justify the upgrade. Plus, it is rather pricey.

PS4 pro was great value and a consumer friendly product. Ps5pro is a premeditated middle finger to their install base that could be taken straight from the apple playbook.

@LogicStrikesAgain You’ve literally ignored the point of my post. Best in class at a certain price point isn’t best in class, which the person I replied to explicitly said it was.

Why should I waste my money for PS5Pro when PS6 is around the corner?

@vyseofhr I’m sure he meant in the console space

@ManaOwls I'm 100% with you. And to be fair, every current console is great. The selection of games is huge, no matter if you have the Series X or the PS5.
I also don't get, why so many people are only crying.

I bought a Pro because it wasn’t a big expenditure for me and I used to be a PC gamer, but switched fully to console now. Compared to what I used to spend to build a new gaming PC every few years, it’s nothing.

I don’t regret getting it, but I think it is less of a raw power boost over the base PS5 than it should be, especially based on Mark Cerny’s “you don’t have to choose between performance and quality” presentation, which was complete lies because every Pro enhanced game still has performance and quality modes and while performance mode is better than performance mode on base PS5, it’s still usually not equal in fidelity to quality mode on a base PS5.

Mainly it seems to be a testbed to make consumers pay for the “privilege” of being beta testers for their proprietary AI upscaling tech that will be in the PS6.

Don’t say any of this on the PS5 Pro subreddit though. That place is full of the most confirmation biased MF’ers on the planet. The lengths to which people can delude themselves into believing they see “huge” differences just so they don’t feel like they wasted $700 is crazy.

Bottom line, the Pro does give you the best console gaming experience you can currently get, but it doesn’t really give you a 55% better experience for a 55% higher price than the current discless slim model. If you are financially comfortable, get it. If you have to think more than a few seconds about spending that much, stick with a base PS5.

@jFug I think it’s incredible that it’s branded as a “Pro” console yet doesn’t include basic features such as a disc drive & a vertical stand …

I’ll be trading in my current PS5 and buying one when Grand theft auto 6 comes out.

I might get a pro this year depending on how the performance of games r between the two models 🤔

Not surprising sadly. I have a PS5 Pro, and I do like it. But given its high price and disappointing game "upgrades", I don't blame people for not bothering with it. The PS4 Pro was transformative. 4K visuals for the first time in a console was huge, and it made for a massive visual boost to the games. PS5 Pro on the other hand barely makes a difference in most games. And a fair number of games were even outright downgrades over base PS5, which is absolutely wild.

Not surprising based on price and actual need for a mid-gen upgrade. There was much more of a need for it last gen with the introduction of 4K. Granted it's all a luxury, but the PS5 Pro was even more so this time around as it's more to cover up inept developers than a true technological leap like last gen. There can be a feeling of nickel and diming as well with no disc drive or vertical stand for a console that is advertised as being displayed vertically.

It doesn't help that there were problems with plenty of games initially to the point where it was better playing it without PSSR, the whole point of the PS5 Pro really. If the price goes down and there's more games that show a true advantage like games did last gen, then I'd consider one.

I will say, for me, as someone stateside I have no interest in a purchase of this magnitude at the moment. While $700 would hardly make a dent in my overall wealth, if you can call it that, I'm finding things to be a little too unpredictable and volatile at this time so I'm securely in savings mode at the moment. I imagine I'm not the only one with this mentality. I think many businesses should be bracing for a move in this direction but maybe it's just me.

The PS4 Pro was $399 with a built-in disc drive.

$699 is just the starting price for a PS5 Pro! If you have a substantial physical library, not only will you need a drive, you’ll have to pray one is in stock.

The launch wasn't helped by developers absolutely bungling their patches.

The console is a darn good device and really shines when utilised properly.

I think the value proposition is fine when you consider the additional storage and compare it to previous generations of consoles when adjusted for inflation.

I keep mine horizonal and the bundled stand is far superior to the one that came with my base model. I dropped physical games back in the mid 2010's so don't care about disc drives and had a digital base model anyway.

I suspect over time as we see it properly utilised by big hitting games like GTA and Sony first party titles, the sales will gain momentum.

I'm playing Avowed on XSX at the moment and many times I feel frustrated that I'm playing on what is essentially a base PS5 instead of my Pro. Especially when I consider how games like DD2 are enhanced.

There’s no demand anymore. all the hardcore bought it and casuals don’t care and can’t afford it anyway most likely.

Because it’s insanely expensive for not a lot.

I have a pro and like it but that’s because I traded in my regular ps5 and some other stuff to get it for the price of a digital ps5 more or less which is worth it for me. For $700 though? I would have regrets and can understand why people aren’t biting.

@wiiware if you shop around you can find a PS5 with bluray player for 400. I bought the PS5 Slim with bluray for 400 last month. I use it in the living room and the original PS5 I gave to my son.

Cant believe the number of negative comments regarding the disc drive - if they had supplied units with drives, they would have cost more! (Which is wasted money for some who dont use discs).
They should be available of course as an optional extra (and available includes in stock).

Very doubtful PS6's will come with a disc drive, probably in order to keep the unit price below the 600 mark.

Also, I have owned both Pro machines (with TVs that could take full advantage of them)... The difference between PS5 and PS5 Pro is far bigger compared to the difference between PS4 and PS4 Pro!
The PS4 Pro wasnt a bad machine, but overall it just didnt give that much of an upgrade compared to what I have seen with PS5 Pro.

@zekepliskin the ps5 pro offers a bigger difference over the ps5 than the ps4 pro did over the standard , also there are more games now that offer a better experience on the ps5 pro, especially if you have a vrr enabled tv, then there's ever was on the ps4 pro in its lifetime, if anyone can't afford the pro that's fine you can still play the same games, but if you can, the pro offers the far better visual fidelity and fps , to me it's was worth it.

@Rich33 totally agree with regards to the differences between the two pro consoles and there weaker counterparts, I also owned a ps4 pro and there wasn't that much of a difference at all, and the ps4 pro enhanced games where few and far between

@x3King84 if you have a vrr enabled tv chances are you can afford the pro , there's a massive difference in visual fidelity and fps to the standard ps5, if anyone has just a standard 4k tv it's not worth it in my opinion, you won't get the full experience.

@Cornpop76 do you not think the controls feel off on avowed ive tried messing with the settings and it just feels weird and floaty,ive been playing kcd2 a lot and I find avowed to be unplayable, any suggestions ?

@Vaako007 The PS3 era games where great as there was a huge variety and dev time was shorter so they came out pretty rapid fire. I think what also made it better for myself was that Blockbuster was still around so they always had very cheap ex rental games for sale which meant you always had loads to play.

I still can’t believe the PS5 has shipped 75m. It only feels like yesterday it was released, I can’t believe it’s been nearly 4.5 years.

I bought a PS4 about 4.5 years after it first came out (I got the Pro), and I was absolutely overwhelmed by the amount of games I had to choose from. I don’t have a PS5, and I still don’t have much urge to get one looking at the games (admittedly I’m not a AAA type of guy). It’s definitely a different landscape now than it was last generation.

Right now the Pro lacks that killer game that has everyone wanting one. Kingdom Come 2 looks incredible on it but while its doing very well sales wise its hardly that killer big name that attracts everyone. I think once the next big Sony 1st party drops like Ghost and of course GTA VI sales will see a massive boost.

I remember I got my white PS4 Pro for £330 & was bundled with GT Sport, Fallout 4 & something else. Maybe WWII? Killzone maybe? Anyway, it was a great launch deal and I couldn't help it!

@GravyThief Quite easy to be overwhelmed by a consoles library when you buy the console at the end of its Gen. Its like buying a Switch now and being overwhelmed and then complaining the Switch 2 library is so small.

As for the PS5 library yeah its pretty stacked now. The PS4 isn't really supported anymore barring COD and Indies that can run on it. Not being funny but the people who say PS5 lacks games are always the people who don't have one and are looking for endless reasons to justify not having one. I mean this month has seen at least 2 of the biggest games this year drop exclusive on current gen consoles and PC.

As for sales yeah take a look at the world right now and how covid changed everything. A lot of people just don't have $500 spare to drop on a console like they did 10 years ago. Sales from the US are most likely going to be impacted heavily for the next 4+ years as well as its new very old President destroys the country.

@jFug $700 is not that much. Most people posting here probably have a smartphone that cost more and replace it every 2 years.

Also go over to the PC partpicker website and price out GPU's. A co-worker showed me yesterday that almost all of the NVIDIA 4000 series cards are gone and what is left is priced really high, like a 4070 Super for $1300. Same for the AMD 7000 series.

With crazy GPU prices you could buy multiple PS5 Pros.

@ecurb7 "it's expensive, but I sold my base model for £300 on Ebay, knocking it down considerably."
This is a kind of illusion. You didn't make the Pro £400 (£700 minus 300), because what effectively happened is you made the original PS5 £150 instead of £450, then you spent £700 on the Pro. So you've spent £850 in total (down from £1,150 for the 5 and Pro if you hadn't sold the 5). So this gen has cost you £850 plus probably hundreds for PS+. It's really adds up without you releasing. 😩

@Lindy01 Yeah but the £2000 to £2500 PC will pay games at far higher framerates, with far better graphics, the games are cheaper (or free 😉), you don't have to pay for online, and you won't have to buy a PS6 in a few years. It's actually way cheaper over time and for a better experience.

For context, if you'd bought a PS5, then a Pro, paid £100 a year for PS+, you'd have spent £1650 so far. Then if you bought 5 games a year, that's about £100 more a year than the PC versions each year for versions that look and run worse. It's really stacks up. Yes you can sell your base PS5 for say £300 but you've still made a net loss of £150 as I said above. And the money you made could go towards a GPU instead of a mild upgrade to a PS5. And then you have to buy a PS6 in maybe 2 years or so. It's really out of hand.

Well it's more expensive than the PS4 Pro and most people are waiting for a newer, more taxing game to justify the purchase more. For me, I just like more power and I try to future proof potential issues as much as possible in the moment so it was simple... but overall, sticking with a regular PS5 is fine.

I don't even know why people keep saying $700 over and over for something optional when others go above and beyond for a potentially pricier graphics card like it's not optional. Especially now!

I have to say though, given how freaking LOUD the PS4 Pro was, I never wanted to upgrade faster. I didn't need to hear about a single freakin' game. The second they said it was backwards compatible and ran quieter, I was SOLD. Anyone putting up with that thing is a masochist. I even tried replacing my PS4 Pro with a brand new one rumored to be better and it made the same noise during it's first few minutes of Monster Hunter World & Nier: Automata. I'll never take quieter hardware for granted.

@Matroska In response to others selling their PS5 for the PS5 Pro, I covered about 55% of my cost that way. You do not include what you originally spent for your first PS5 in that math because you are replacing your hardware. Only whats left as you'd pay nothing had it covered it all.

You're grossly undervaluing PS+ by only seeing it from the online angle and not mentioning the benefits. The service gives you monthly games, a library of other games to pick from that go across all 5 generations of Playstation, cloud streaming, and other features like cloud saving, startshare/shareplay, etc. Yeah, you're paying for the online but you're also getting access to bunch of games too. You also don't have to take the plunge into every new game day one. Wait for sales as it practically only takes up to a month these days with the flash sales. Also, they have discounts on plus renewals every now and then allowing you to loop years for cheaper than normal.

Also, just being real... I absolutely hate troubleshooting to play a game and people go through it all the time on PC. Making sure their controller works, g-sync, audio issues, you name it-- even with all that power. I love the idea of mods and what they add to games, but sometimes even getting those to work can take some tries. Heck, these days, mods are practically game fixes to brand NEW PC ports rather than old games and that shouldn't be the case. You shouldn't have to deal with problems on your end, the end the developer was supposed to handle, and sometimes even the service you're downloading from. Then there's the illegality of everything... which, while nothing new, leads to more troubleshooting with emulation somewhere down the line and it doesn't support the developers that are still around, especially pirating new games-- I could go all day and I think that's the point. It's a lot of reappearing hoops to jump through just to simply say:

"yeah, nearly everything is better*"
*when it works

Just wait until the clown shoes U.S. administration's clown shoes tariffs!

@BleedingDreamer Just bought ps5 digital slim at about $441 (since I rarely use the disc), the most it's discounted in my country is about $423, for ps5 slim disc version the most it's discounted is about $508 I think.

I mean... surprising no one?

Two things can be right, the £700 price tag without a disc drive and a vertical stand is a joke.

But also people saying there’s “barely a difference” are frankly wrong, and bringing up the PS4 Pro is highly disingenuous, it was barely a leap above the OG PS4 and that was seen with how it always paled in comparison to the Xbox One X, it was simply a way to utilise 4K displays, and that reflected in its modest price bump from the base unit.

The PS5 Pro is a sizable upgrade from the base PS5 and you can see that with how certain games look and run on Pro with enhanced graphics over the base counterpart (Callisto Protocol, Dragons Dogma 2, Baldurs Gate 3 and KCD2 come to mind)

The Pro is a fantastic system and I don’t regret my purchase one bit, but I will admit that I would have a far different opinion if I wasn’t lucky enough to bag a disc drive on launch.

The PS5 Pro is one of the first Sony consoles to seemingly be sold for a pretty big profit margin compared to prior consoles, so the sales falling off won’t cause any alarm, and despite people complaining about its price, it is still without doubt the cheapest way to play this kind of power on the market, even notable PC YT channels have said there’s a point in people who are saying screw the latest RTX cards, I’ll just get a PS5 Pro and use that for the rest of the gen.

Overall it’s a mixed bag, if you don’t care about fps and visuals then stick with the base, or if you don’t have a good enough display to utilise the pro, don’t get it. But anyone who does care about that probably has bought the pro already; which is why sales are slowly dipping, those who wanted it came and went.

Another article that’s really a whole lot of nothing once you look at the details, but it’s done its job in getting comments going, so it’s a win for journalism.

I'd forgotten that the Pro exists...

@Matroska

First, the price of PS+ is irrelevant – this stays the same whether I bought a Pro or not, just as the money I spend on any games does.

Second, if I follow your logic, then it still works out very well. On your way of looking at things, I got four years of PS5 gaming for £150, which is a pretty good deal. And when the PS6 comes out, and I sell my Pro (let’s say, for £400), then I will have had three/four years of PS5 Pro gaming for £300, which is also pretty good. And so on into the future.

Third, though, I just don’t agree with your basic argument. When I buy a new car and trade in my old one to get money off, no one says, well, actually, you just got money off the price of your original car, not the new one. This is effectively what I did with my base PS5 (even if I had to use ebay, rather than Sony directly giving me the money as a discount). And as I established in point 2, if I keep doing this every generation – which I also did with previous PS generations – then I think it’s fair to treat this in the colloquial way of saying that I got money off the new one.

Anyway, whichever way you look at it, I’m very happy with my Pro, and enjoying all its benefits.

@lazarus11
RE TV Spec / Pro - I have also said (on repeat occasions, including in this article) similar, and that to get the most out of a PS5 Pro you need a 4K 120Hz VRR TV.

But, I often forget that whilst this it true now, in a year or so it may well not be - with all the graphically intense / UE5 games on their way, base PS5 may easily start seriously struggling to even hit 60fps in a large % of games.
There are already a number of games Base PS5 struggles with now, but this is likely to only get worse, particularly as Devs may take the viewpoint that anyone who cares about 60fps will have bought Pro (which Im sure has already been said).

@vyseofhr

Haha! I see that comment again and again. It actually only gets funnier and funnier as more and more people realize the actual cost of personal computers.

Hardly feels like a pro console when it comes without a disc drive or a stand. Immediate blocker to someone on the base console.

Then you really need a £1500 television to even notice a difference.

Just not attractive at all and lets be honest we’re 3 years away from the next console which will have all the pro technology and more.

@Sweetz

This is a classic straw man where you build up an unfair representation of the opinion of others.

@matroska

So, you have to be a thief in order to see any value in the choices you've made. Well done, girl!

@LifeGirl Speak for yourself. I’ve been playing video games since 1988, and this has been my favorite generation so far. And the PS5 is easily my favorite PlayStation. I don’t know why so many people are so jaded and cynical these days, but I’m having fun at least.

@Gazray I just bought an OLED tv for $500 to go with my PS5 Pro and games look amazing on it, way better than on my old tv, which was a 4K HDR tv, but not OLED. I don’t know what tv prices are like in the UK, but at least in the US, you absolutely can get a good tv for less than a thousand dollars.

@Darude84 Hey, I did the same thing (traded in my base PS5 and my Series X to get a Pro) and I totally agree with you. The difference between the base PS5 and the Pro is night and day. Even my wife, who does not play video games or care about video game graphics at all, watched me play and said “whoa, this looks way better!” I think there’s some people out there who need to get their eyes checked.

@lazarus11 Ah classic internet, no matter how salient your points there's always someone who'll go "no, you're wrong, and here's why!" 😂

I guess it hasn't occurred to you that it's more than possible to be able to afford something, but not want it because it doesn't offer enough value to you. The PS5 Pro falls squarely into that category for a lot of people, myself included.

When it's able to be fully jailbroken and the price drops to £200 or less, that'll be my sweet spot for owning one so probably when the PS6 is out. Hopefully the PS6 has a better library than the PS5, that is to say, more than barely any exclusives 😂 goddamn what a drought.

One thing that’s rarely mentioned in console to PC comparisons is the amount of power they draw. With the price of electricity (especially in the U.K.) that’s a really important factor to consider.

@LunarFlame17 Good to hear! I think most people don’t realize you actually need to see it on your 4k tv. And not via a video on your phone. Before I got my 65 inch neo qled I never even saw the difference between 30 and 60 fps. Now it’s a whole new experience.

It’s not worth £700…but the performance bump on FFXVI (unpatched, too!) really is superb. It has changed the game for me.

@Jrs1 the performance bump is probably very nice but no disc drive at that price point means I have to pay an additional fee just to use my existing collection. No thanks

@ThomasHL Not really. The main improvements that the Pro makes are resolution, better draw distance and object detail, consistency of framerate. Doesn't matter if I'm playing that on my 65" LG C3 OLED or my 32" Samsung from 2008 (that somehow still works). You not knowing what to look for is fine, but it doesn't mean others can't see a difference.

And the PS4 Pro had a literal handful of games that saw a bump to 60FPS. It still had the same weak sauce CPU as the PS4 (that was already antiquated in 2013 at base launch, nevermind three years later at Pro launch), just slightly overclocked.

@Darude84 Genuinely, how? Screen size and resolution have no bearing on the perception of the refresh rate. Even to my 10 year old brain the difference between a NES game at 25fps and one at 50fps was huge on my 14" portable TV.

I really like new HW but for me the biggest issue with pro is its price. Where I live it's 800€ without disc drive, disc drive + stand is additional 130€, that's ridiculous! I already have 4k oled 120hz so should be able to benefit from pro console, but I will not pay this money this time (I had ps4 pro) and will simply not support pro console without disc and stand. Honestly, will definitely wait and consider what ps6 brings to the table and what price it will cost, as I'm really happy with my OG ps5 and will have to see some real benefit to upgrade to ps6 in case ps5 will be still supported like ps4 was this gen

@MrPeanutbutterz resolution only makes a difference if your TV had the pixels and is big enough for you to see them. You can already get a stable refresh rate on a base PS5

@LunarFlame17 I think they spent too much time online being surrounded by other negative Nancies and assume that that's how the vast majority of gamers feels.

I was all on for getting a pro at launch ,but not to at least include a disk drive with it was a terrible decision and what makes it worse is that you have to buy disk drive that is very hard to get hold of at retail price,another extra 100 quid ,whatever sony is smoking, I certainly don't want any of it.only saving grace is that you can at least trade in ps5 towards it which is very nice I know ,I just think that more thought should have gone into if not the price ,then having disk drive separate in same box as ps5 pro sold ,multi billion companies aren't yr friend but anyway I could go on and on lol.i still would love to have one and will get 1 but only when can get disk drive at retail price,very pleased with my ps5 launch day model ,whether its expensive is in eye of beholder really ,if you use ps5 pro a lot then absolutely worth it as I will when I get one later this year

@LunarFlame17
My partner did the same, not as into games as I am, but took one look on launch day at the game I playing (Hogwarts or SM2 probably) and just said something like "S***, thats a lot better!" .

@ThomasHL
But not every game does run at locked 60fps - though they should, and a Pro will help with this in the majority of games as they are GPU bound (and even the minority of poorly designed CPU bound games will get a 10% increase).
If you even take the very conservative fps increase that has been tested in unpatched games of approx 35% - that is the difference between 45fps, and 60fps, which is a massive difference in game.
As we go through the generation its likely more and more games will struggle in this regard, particularly if devs take the viewpoint that anyone who cares enough about framerate will have bought a Pro.

@zekepliskin barely any exclusives 😂😂
Stellar blade
Ff7 rebirth
Silent hill 2
Gt7
Helldivers 2
Astrobot
Returnal
Demon souls
Ratchet and clank
Rise of the ronin
Forspoken
Ff16
Destruction all stars
Ff7 remake
Infinity nikki
Pacific drive
Not to mention the as yet to release one's
Ghost of yotei
Wolverine
Death stranding 2
Phantom blade zero
Sword of the sea
Fairgames
The midnight walk
Saros
Lost souls aside
Ballad of antara
How many exclusives do you actually want,and all of those games will play and look the best on ps5 pro 😁

@Darude84 yeah i was one of those saying I'm not bothered by 30fps or 60ps , but playing the pro on a vrr enabled tv with between 60 and 100 fps i just can't play a game at 30 anymore,I really don't understand the well I can afford one, but I don't want one mentality, if youre a gamer why would you not want the best experience possible, it baffles me.

@lazarus11 Notice you couldn't summon an argument for the rest of it so pivoted to the one thing you could. 😂 I suspect someone bought a PS5 Pro recently and has serious purchase justification cope... don't worry, it'll clear up over time, it's not permanent. It's probably why you've turned yourself into a one-man rebuttal team against anyone saying anything vaguely negative about it all rather than, y'know, actually playing it so in a way I suppose that proves there isn't really much to do with it other than play PS4 games... like you can on a PS4. I could do this alllll day in a matter of seconds, it's pretty easy.

You can knock a few handfuls off that list because either they haven't been released yet or are on PC so aren't exclusive, it's what we'd call a "padded list". Anyhow, compared to this point in the PS3 or PS4 life cycle it's significantly smaller, with or without the disqualified ones. Maybe it'd be bigger if Sony hadn't themselves tried to pivot to live service games then cancelled them after Ryan was ousted.

@zekepliskin oh that tired old chestnut,its on pc so it's not exclusive i thought people had grown out of that 5 years ago, it seems there are still some championing that outdated mantra,in case you havent noticed a lot of sony games are coming to pc now, just like a lot of xbox games are coming to ps that will look and play best on the pro,why do I have purchase justification cope ? I can play games the best they can be, and this is only going to get better with newer releases, why would i want the inferior version ? Seems to me you're angry at anyone who wants a better experience because you can't, I can play KCD2 (potential game of the year) at 70fps with quality mode,why on earth would i want less,like I've said its ok if you can't ,there's nothing wrong with the standard ps5, its just the pro is much better , "it's what we call a padded list" who's we then, some sort of weird Internet cult, that doesn't like people owning things, they can't possibly afford 😂😂

@lazarus11 I can tell from your reply I touched a nerve or five there. Seems like I nailed it with purchase justification cope.

Yeah cos exclusive means exclusive to one platform, that's what the word is by definition. It's a word, it's not something you "grow out of" 😂 yeah I had noticed loads of stuff coming to PC that's why I said they're not exclusive cos some are on PC... good lord.

A decent spec PC can handily outdo a PS5 Pro for visuals as long as the port of the game is half decent. This is common knowledge. So if you don't want the inferior version, you better join the Master Race or whatever they're calling themselves these days. DLSS beats PSSR in a lot of cases.

I'm not angry at all kid, this is more like sport, I guess.

Anyone can own things they can't afford, it's what credit cards are often misused for. See, I can do with the word poor what you did with the PC exclusive thing if you like... oh that tired old chestnut, people don't consider it good value cos they can't afford it cos they're poor, I thought people had grown out of that years ago, there are still some championing that outdated mantra blah blah blah 😂

For people loyal enough, have the TV support, the money and want the best picture quality and the techniques do it for you by all means.

I don't even care for the base PS5 anyway the games aren't compelling and the software OS is eh, Portal is eh (and lacking features its so basic and boring), PSVR2 (fair price and yes different technology then PSVR but I pay attention to headset price/tech at times) they have 3rd parties support but Sony doesn't care and the PS5 Pro price is as much as a PS3 was in my country anyway so nah.

PCs don't compel me to upgrade but have to of cheap end ones and even then I don't care. I can make the most of low amounts as long as web browsers/webpages aren't high quality garbage images and better programming yet many aren't. XD PC or mobile browsers even.

I can be a tech enthusiast but still be an average parts interested, besides a few niche use cases mindset like OS virtual machines or other things.

Doesn't make me care for the high end stuff I just think other aspects are more exciting of hardware gimmicks on phones or Nintendo systems, expensive but still exciting not boring upgrades for the price. It's up to implementation of software and hardware.

I see the benefits but I also don't because to me the techniques aren't that compelling of any upscaling then native implementation and more care put into it then upscaling tech all the time, then the next native, the next native, etc.

The artstyles/HDR/RT and more balanced around then games that AREN'T and work too much against graphics mode and the performance mode looks terrible because they didn't balance around it is their own fault/laziness to care at all and force garbage visual features into games or performance ends up either way too.

Some performance modes look better then graphics mode because the extra garbage that would be on screen/adds too much of lighting, shadows, the HDR filter I can't stand, particles and more are turned off or down. No wonder they look better and balanced design not bonuses that are pointless and horrendous but HAVE to push a technology someone created we really didn't need, don't look natural and because tech has to compensate or we think it looks better saturated or a certain way then reality.

I don't even care what reality looks like I want fiction/good ideas, not reality look-alikes or bend slightly it's boring. Give me your imagination not your references and garbage ideas so basic and pitiful why were they hired in the first place.

Even besides shine/wet looking or other saturation or other colours used.

Implementation of the artstyle and more. Same issues with game design, eh movesets, eh level design, boring worlds, and more. Why would i care if the art is terrible and the gameplay is terrible. Story is only so convincing.

@zekepliskin oh the usual childish put down of calling me kid 😂😂 i was gaming before you was a twinkle in your daddy's ballsack kiddo , you touched a nerve , don't flatter yourself ,there's a massive difference between pc gaming and console gaming , pc gaming involves to much faff and I dont have time for that, you've basically repeated everything I've just said , and used it for your own argument 😂😂 use your own views and maybe don't be influenced by youtubers and social media as much as you seem to be , kids these days 😂😂😂 what a twonk.

@SuntannedDuck2 may I suggest KCD2 ive been playing it a lot and it really is superb ,it looks good and the gameplay is great ,but its the little things that elevate it up higher than any game I've played over the last decade , ill give you an example and this is just one of many , I had a lot of fancy clothes in my inventory that I didn't need , I dropped them all outside a busy tavern , the npcs rushed to pick up all my belongings, exclaiming "I'll have that" "that's mine now" one of them even said "yoink" whether they are wearing those clothes in a few days I do not know , but it was a highlight of over 40 years of gaming.

@Matroska lol your analogy is loaded in the PC favor.

Let’s say I never bought the base PS5. I buy a Pro And I buy the lowest cost of PS+ and I buy five games year on sale.

Now I buy a PC with 4090, to get those Far better graphics and frames. The 4090 alone cost more than I would ever spend on a Play Station setup. Game over.

I personally can’t stand using Windows, especially 11. Mac + PS is my jam.

Should just release “Pro” versions as base consoles and not do mid-gen upgrades in the future.

@lazarus11 controls are very laggy in quality mode.

Balanced is fine. More responsive combat than KCD.

I’m using 120hz with VRR and unlimited frame rate.

Controls are great on GeForce Now too even though it’s streaming. Snappy and responsive.

Even platforming like climbing to the top of the lighthouse was fine.

@CAKESPECTRE999 You act like PS6 is coming this year. If you're going to use your PS5 for a few more years, that's about the time PS6 will be coming out anyway. lol

@Lindy01 WIn11 is imo far, FAR better than 8, 8.1, and 10. Mac stinks as badly as Linux.

@Almost_Ghostly I think most people use Windows because of corporate lock-in.

There is not a single Microsoft product I need to use thankfully. I work in IT/Dev Ops, including Azure Dev Ops and I use Mac's, so does my whole team. I run powershell on my Mac and manage anything in Azure and get to my corporate email/OneDrive/Sharepoint via Google Chrome . Our whole team moved from Visio to Draw IO in 2024 for all of our diagraming needs.

I cant find a bloody discdrive without playing a insane premium wont help either.

@Almost_Ghostly Yeah its not that great plus the copilot fiasco its a terrible product. Its also a OS people refuse to use untill the a gun put to their head.

@Lindy01 Cool story bro. lol

@Flaming_Kaiser Which imaginary copilot fiasco are you referring to? The one where you can opt out of using copilot? LOL! And there are literally statistics out there to prove you wrong about how many people use Widows vs any other OS and how many people use Win11 vs any other version of Windows. Windows crushes all other OS's in terms of number of users for desktop pcs and laptops. And for those, Win11 has the second highest number of users.

@Almost_Ghostly Corporate Lock-in. Its the only game in town for larger companies.

That said "Windows" is far from Microsoft main focus anymore. It is on life support, and they will ride it out until it dies. They barely put any effort in it and Windows 11 adoption rates is so far behind older versions. This year is will jump up as 10 loses support.

Microsoft is a subscription company Azure, M/O365 and Game Pass, everything else back burner and their quarterly results show it.

@Lindy01 "Windows on life support" 😂😂😂😂😂 Yeah, sure. And I've been hearing how Linux is going to take over desktop pc's since the early 90's. macOS at 14% share rate & Linux at 4.1%. Meanwhile, Windows at 73%.

@Almost_Ghostly Has nothing to do with Linux. Outside of work there are lots of people that do not even own a Windows computer or a computer at all. They do so much on a phone these days. Or have one computer at home shared and that could be Windows, Mac, or even a Chrome book.

Windows is NOT growing. If business ever moves to something different it will die off overnight.

The PS5 generation is even more disappointing than the PS3 generation, and for most of that time I was playing my Xbox 360 more. The fact that I am more interested in the games Xbox will be bringing to PS5 than Sony themselves is wild.

@Lindy01 Linux is 100% relevant for comparison sake. Windows not growing is also nonsense. Simple Google search proves you wrong. Three strikes. You're out.

@Almost_Ghostly

Go to Google, and put in "Statista Personal computer (PC) shipments worldwide from 2006 to 2024". You will see PC sales for those years. The best year was 2010 (Windows 7 fixing Vista) with 365 million (the vast majority to businesses). It dropped by 103 million to 262 million in 2019, almost 1/3. Massive decline. Then COVID hit and it went back up to 341 million because so many people had to do remote work and school and in 2024 it is back down to 245 million lower than 2019 by 17 million. Which direction is it going?

So please tell how Windows is growing? Also remember the vast majority of those PC sales are low end PC's for business. My company has over 5000 Windows PC's, none of them could run anything but Dota or counter strike.

I own a Pro, but I've always been super skeptical that Sony would even release this mid-gen upgrade simply because AMD couldn't provide a meaningful hardware bump.

And while I did get one, because I'm an enthusiast, I have to say it's been quite underwhelming. Is it worth it? For the vast majority of users, no. Again, the performance upgrade is tiny. Is it worth it for me? Yes, because I like to know I'm getting the best experience possible.

And the improved motion reprojection in GT7 on PSVR2 is the icing on the cake. But that tidbit also goes to show how niche this thing really is.

@Lindy01 LOL! Strike 4. PC shipments were not even what was being discussed. Now you're in bad faith flat out moving your goal posts and creating straw men, so I won't even be replying to any more of your silly comments.

@lazarus11 It does have some good ideas, I didn't play the first one. It does go a bit more particular on it's more hardcore and more involved world which I think really suits the game. Not my thing but I always respected what it was going for. The little things to make it quite the game for sure. I do respect devs that go for the little things though.

Your example was pretty cool, not something I really care for or what have thought of compared to other game mechanics/level design and more I'm seeking in old games but I do think it's a cool idea to feel more lived in yes and give NPCs more to them then their repetitive cycles. I do think that's really cool.

I just seek other things then lived in ones most people want. Like to me most RPG quests are boring, I don't care for most of the tropey ones or the dialogue as much.

It's why I go for more arcadey stuff even more over the years. Just the way I've been going. Indies with shooters/racing/platformers have not been good. Yes I can be that harsh. I don't think they match the potential they could enough, too nostalgic, they play it safe. Indies really do shine in the puzzle/adventure genres but others just don't.

AAs vary depending what they are going for. I mostly end up buying Japanese ones, the odd western ones from time to time still yes.

I don't even have to buy a PS5/Series X, family have them, PSVR2, Portal I had an idea but they still had interest in them, I'm the VR/motion controls familiar even type as I read up/play games with console gimmicks XD. Quick resume is cool but digital only so I can't use it. Games are hit and miss. South of Midnight looks fair.

I just have no interest in using them (played Rift Apart hated it played about halfway, didn't the best level in the game and watched footage on it, still refuse to play it, beat Space Marine 2's story, it was ok too much like the first game but ok differences). I could buy my own personal ones I just don't need them. GT7 is eh but I'll buy it cheap like Sport pre-owned, I don't support their strategy. I did the wiki work for Sport's 1.69 update offline conversion, not shutdown.

I want more abilities/level design based stuff more then lived in but I don't deny that is very interesting and great to seem them really bring the world to life in it. Just isn't my thing. I don't care for most open worlds because dialogue/quest wise or moveset wise they just aren't exciting to me. I've seen gaming do a lot, I've researched what I wasn't alive for to see what was out there, failed, successful, niche gems, big IPs, any of the sort then just my own small range, to widening it. So yes for me broadening it does sound odd for me to still have such a response of dissatisfaction doesn't it. XD

I have branched out to Tactics, Hack n slashes, visual novels, arcade racing games more over the years (played shooters, racing, platformers, odd city builders/tycoon games, odd strategy in the past) to play so it's not a genre embracing issue at all.

Part 2:
I get whatever I need on Switch or PS4 from third parties anyway. But played 30 PS2/Wii/PS3/360 games last year, barely touched my PS4 games. Still got quite the backlog too. 2022/2023 for me were more exciting years then 2024. I haven't cared for a PS/Xbox 1st party game in years because they cut support for the studios/games I'd have preferred by them to push the bigger stuff and design I don't like in the IPs I did like so I've moved away from them. So I went elsewhere.

The console gimmicks/features just don't appeal to me in the slightest compared to past consoles.

@SuntannedDuck2 so it would be fair to say youre more of a retro player these days , nothing wrong with that , i use my vita for that ,from the spectrum to the ps1 and everything in between, its a superb little machine and a travesty it was abandoned by Sony, if you like retro games, bitmap books make some great stuff , really excellent well made material.

@Almost_Ghostly Its not great Windows 11 updating is godawfull. If it so great why do they have so much problems with people wanting to Stay at Windows 10. Somehow Windows can achieve less user friendlyness every Time.

@Flaming_Kaiser LOL! Win 11 updates operate the exact same way as Win 10 updates. And why do some people want to stay on 10? Simple. The majority don't like change. There is nothing less user friendly about 11. At all. Period. Just stop already and stay on topic. P.S. You're also 10 days late to the party.

@Almost_Ghostly I know Windows sucks in general as a OS is terrible and not very intuitive as whole.

@Flaming_Kaiser As opposed to Mac and Linux? Lol. Come on now. You're grasping. 😂😂😂😂😂