Journalist Apologises for Adding Fuel to the 'Final Fantasy 16 Flopped on PS5' Fire

I always thought that was the case tbh. The game sold 3 million in its first week - meaning that it only sold an extra 500,000 in the two years since despite also getting a PC port in the meantime?

Yeah 3.5 mil seemed awfully low considering the first week sales. FFXVI is one of the many PS5 games unfairly tarnished with an exclusivity-stench this gen. While I understand it may have disappointed some of the FF hardcore in terms of its lurch towards action-rpg, that in no way detracts from how good an action-rpg it actually is.

It looks beautiful, the OST is off the charts, plays as well (if not better) than the best character action games out there and has spectacle so great, it has never before been witnessed. My GotY for 2023 by a country mile!

The industry is straight up broken when a game can sell 4-5 million copies and be perceived as a flop. There is a huge amount of developers/ publishers that would love these numbers. Stop inflating budgets/ expectations or we are headed for a crash. It's unsustainable.

@Jey887 I don’t think a crash is likely. A retraction is possible but not an outright crash. Gaming does not revolve around big budget games, they are merely part of a diverse range of budgets and team sizes.

There's no way it sold 3 million in one week and only 500k since then even with it releasing on a new platform. It's most likely over 4-5 million on PS5 alone which usually isn't a bad figure just for one platform. Even at £60 per game in its first week of sales they got £180 million revenue, surely they atleast broke even on this game.

@Lowdefal Perhaps I should have specified further. I meant a crash in AAA gaming. Although a retraction may be more accurate. Either way the suits making the decisions need to wake up.

Square have been particularly ridiculous about this game, the way to drive up sales is not constantly whine how it didn’t sell as many as you, as a business, wished it would make based on some abstract, obscene number plucked from the air.

It’s a fantastic game, the best single player FF since 10 easily, they should be proud of what was achieved.

Square are at the very apex when it comes to ridiculous complaining.

That 3.5 million number kind of stunk. I could see 500k copies of the PC version being sold, it had around 30K players on Steam at launch (plus whatever number that bought it on Epic) and six months have passed since. Obviously they've been selling copies on PS5 in the two years since that 3 million number was hit.

I'm not one to defend FF16, my least favourite FF imo, but this sites reporting of it and also FF7rebirth just added to the entire failure narrative.

I know sales are an important factor... for franchises and companies, why for us gamers however!? Some comment section gamers and the media put so much emphasis behind it, that it has an influence on consumer and market perception, which lead more to actual market failure. There's a perverse group of gamers who just want things to fail for the silliest of reasons, oftentimes culture wars bs or other pet peeves. This led to outlaws flopping and AC shadows just another current example. What do those weirdos gain from something failing!?

If Toyo Securities estimates 3.5 million copies, why

„it’s likely the game has sold upwards of four or five million units at this point“?

Are Toyo Securities analysts unreliable or not trustworthy? Does Sammy have another source? Or just wishful thinking?

Low sales wouldn't surprise me. The game barely has the right to call itself Final Fantasy. It is absolutely atrocious. They spent so much time hammering in the fact it wasn't a turn-based game whilst actually not acknowledging the fact it was a linear boring piece of crap that a 5-year-old could play because it had a god mode built into it. Forspoken was more fun than this and the only people they have to blame are themselves for allowing zero creativity and trying to please everybody whilst pissing off the people that actually mattered. Final Fantasy fans. Going forward don't let Hiroshi anywhere near a Final Fantasy game.

It's vital to keep the narrative positive, and focus on player engagement and other statistics that make your product look like a success.

XBOX has been doing this since they started trailing far behind Playstation, and now its being adopted by other game publishers. They don't want the next Concord or Suicide Squad on their hands if they can help it.

I noticed some gaming journalist / media tried too hard to paint 3rd party exclusive for Sony / PS in a bad position.

Everything that is Ps5 exclusive has been vilified or deemed irrelevant by the usual media outlets fanboys just because it’s not on their system or is not fueling the money behind the sites. It’s so transparent at this point that I find it hysterical when anyone is still surprised by it.

@graymamba I will absolutely give you, that, while FF16 did initially turn me off it a bit, with its push to all out action; once I got into it, I very much enjoyed it as an action rpg, and thought the presentation, story, and acting all throughout were pretty stellar. Not my favourite FF game, but a pretty awesome game, nevertheless.

Yup FF is cursed and it's so sad. I had never seen so much scrutiny for a series before (altho nowadays anything that might be even a little "woke" suffers worse lol). And it was definitely because they made the games console exclusive and timed exclusive to Playstation yet dragon quest games and even some of their other smaller but prominent titles were allowed to be exclusive to Nintendo and/or pc without a peep. It's ridiculous

@UltimateOtaku91 "There's no way it sold 3 million in one week" So this post from the FFXVI page is fake? lol https://www.facebook.com/finalfantasyxvi/photos/pb.100063774391930.-2207520000/773275884524479/?type=3 The official page posted it themselves on June 28, 2023

@Strikke you’ve taken a part of @UltimateOtaku91’s statement there and strawman’d the hell out of it! Congrats on taking that **** to a whole nutha level 👏

@Strikke I think what UltimateOtaku said is he didn't believe the journalist report that claim almost two years later FF XVI only sold 3.5 mill copies or only added 500K copies.

@Strikke You have wrong idea on what I was saying, I know it sold 3 million in its first week I was saying there's no way it sold only another 500k since then, especially with it also releasing on another platform.

I've never understood why a game not selling well seems to be a reason for some people to think the game wasn't good.
I absolutely loved 16 and it felt like a return to how the games felt back in the PS1 days both in terms of scope and spectacle.
The story hooked me throughout and the world felt so rich with details.
I also really like the FF7 Remake series but I struggled to get thru Rebirth because it just felt like there was too much to get thru when it opens up which isn't tied to the main quest and because you can't go back you feel like you need to do everything.

The funny thing about all the "FFXVI failed because it didn't launch on multiple platforms" thing is... well, Final Fantasy doesn't usually launch on multiple platforms. Only twice has a mainline Final Fantasy game launched on more than one platform*- XIII and XV. Neither of which are hailed as high points for the series' success. And in both cases, the two platforms at launch were a Playstation and an Xbox, and the sales split between those platforms was roughly 80/20 in favour of Playstation. And both of those launches were before Gamepass (which has, whether we like it or not, changed people's purchasing habits especially on Xbox)

The narrative about FFXVI being a flop is a game of telephone. The quote you see is "didn't meet SE expectations", initially reported as "didn't meet SE high expectations". The actual quote from the shareholder briefing that this came from was "didn't meet the high end of SE expectations"- which implies that it hit the low or mid range of SE expecations. This meeting also stated that FFXVI was profitable. It's not "a flop" if it's made a profit.

*Even XI and XIV- the two MMO's announced for multiple platforms had styaggered launches between those platforms. XI launched on PS2 then PC 6 months later, and while FFXIV was announced for PS3 and PC, the initial launch of 1.0 in 2010 was PC exclusive, PS3 didn't get the game until A Realm Reborn- almost three years later (which was for the best)

@LifeGirl 300 million!?

@Jey887 well said 👍

This game is one of the most jaw-dropping action RPGs that I've played in recent years regardless.

Not to mention the phenomenal voice acting. It's a pity that it didn't get the attention that it deserves.

As if releasing it on Xbox Series would have made a difference. The fanboys who wants it there clearly overestimate the importance of Xbox. It wouldn't even have registered in sales. In fact, porting the game there would likely cost more money than they would actually make.

Xbox fanboys don't even buy games anymore, they get it on gamepass. In this case, Gamepass would make SE lose money on those sales.

Sometimes sites are so eager to get the clickable article headline, they lose context. And this had a bad impact and it's happened before. I'm glad for the correction, but it seems it wasn't by the author, but the publisher of the article.

Its crazy how media nowadays doesnt do any research or fact checking anymore and just brings anything someone shouts as news and facts.

I think it would be best if square Enix actually gave sales numbers now or the narrative won't change.

Obviously, skipping the ecosystem that is 237% smaller and whose users brag about not paying for games was a critical mistake for FFXVI!

@Jey887 it’s absolutely the budgets for these games that make them hard to turn a profit. So many factors go into a game flopping today than they did 10 years ago (much of it is BS) so the devs need to take that into consideration. Remember when selling 1,000,000 would get the game a “Greatest Hits” label? Now, sell 5 million and you likely won’t get a sequel.

They could generate good revenue by re-releasing GBA Final Fantasy 1-6 with the extra dungeons, remaster FF Mystic Quest and remake FF 9 and 10.

@AhmadSumadi very well said. They seriously need to sort out their budget. If enough people aren't willing to buy these games, they should at the very least consider making smaller games.

@SuperJag86 some people simply equate sales with quality. They believe that if a game was good enough, it'd sell well. They base their view on very limited data, in an attempt to confirm what they already believe, when there is plenty of evidence that suggests the opposite.

The cool thing is that the sales figures will never take away from how utterly awesome this game is.

@naruball thanks! Hollywood and the gaming industry have bloated budgets and make it hard for anything to be financially successful.

For example, the new Captain America has grossed 400 million worldwide but they’re saying it’s a flop. Why? Because the budget was so big that it’s barely turning a profit. Rewind to 2011 when the original Captain America grossed 370 million worldwide and it’s considered a resounding success.

The budgets are too big when you include production costs and advertising. It’s one of the reasons so many have moved to digital. They’re trying to cut costs somewhere.

@AhmadSumadi yup. I think after so many projects have failed to make a profit, adjusting their budgets is an inevitability. The problem is that until that happens, a lot of video games/ movies will be seen as failures.

@Jimmer-jammer Indeed, game was unreal to me when I saw those eikon fights for the first time. Hope to see something like that again in an FF game!

@get2sammy it should be noted that the guy writing that article has been very anti sony and square enix in the past written hit pieces on both companies and has got into a spat with a square enix executive because of his misrepresentation of the company

At this point we can just agree that it’s a flop. If it wasn’t, there wouldn’t be so much back and forth (all from SquareEnix) in its responses over the years.

Furthermore, this shows what the problem has been in gaming for several years now. Counting units sold TO STORES as actual units sold. Those aren’t going into player’s hands/consoles, they’re collecting dust until said store sells it for cheap as hell…then the publisher boasts “omg we sold THIS MANY units!!” Conveniently after (INSERT HOLIDAY HERE) but really they were on massive discount and so the perceived value of one “unit” is a sliding scale.

The only publisher who has been on-point with their “shipped-to-store” boast is Capcom…and I wouldn’t be surprised if even those numbers are revealed to be cooked years down the line.

@Toot1st Edited

I just started playing it last week even though I pre ordered it. Was holding out on the hopes of performance patches. So far it’s been incredible but holy hell the game drops frames in performance mode almost everywhere. I can see my fps on my tv and it drops to the mid 40s in almost every area… and gets quite blurry.

I wish they added a 40fps mode.

@Nepp67 Me too! It’s cool to see these massive weapons actually have an impact on the world instead of showing up for a flashy 15 seconds only to disappear like a ghost.

It’s an all time top five FF title. Easily.

Regardless of commercial success, I don’t care what anyone says, as far as I’m concerned, Final Fantasy XVI is one of the finest action RPG’s ever made. My wife bought it for me for my birthday and I went straight into it after putting nearly 300 hours into The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom on Switch. I didn’t really fancy FF16, but I gave it a go and unexpectedly fell head over heels in love with the game. The story, visuals, voice acting, OST, combat and Eikon boss battles are all absolutely stellar. In fact, it soon became my second favourite game of all time only behind The Last of Us Part II.

This journalists article did not meet Square Enix's expectations.

@BigRadical "At this point we can just agree that it’s a flop"

But it's not a commercial and critical flop. So why would we agreed with a false report???

@The_Pixel_King your selection tells me you are a gaming sommelier!

My girlfriend got me it for father's day last year along with Tekken 8 or just after and FF16 is still sealed I've never even played it yet. The issue is I told my girlfriend that for a game like 16 you need a lot of time because it's an RPG and I don't game like I used to work family and work. So I may never get to play it to be honest but maybe one day least it's on disc

"but we’d expect PlayStation to continue its partnership with Final Fantasy, and push whatever else is coming out hard."

I don't think so.

I do believe Square Enix Will want people to stop see Final Fantasy synonyms to PlayStation and therefore will do less partnerships with Sony now.

Also about the game selling well or not, Square Enix confirmed that FF16 was mostly played by newcomers so most old Final Fantasy fans are distancing themselves from the franchise, which obviously affects the sells.

@Vyse_the_Legend What you just said (about partnerships) is just BS.... SE will still work with Sony with marketing deals, etc etc... like usual. The only thing that will stop is SE making exclusives to other consoles (yes that includes Nintendo too; some might forget but SE does tons of exclusives with them as well)

At the end of the day, SE doesn't gain anything by distancing themself from Sony and PlayStation, for matter fact, it might turn worse for them. Sony isn't just PS, but also Music and production of Anime; stuff that SE also cares deeply (and in Japan, Sony is really big in that regards). You have to be really stupid to stop working with them. For example, Capcom works with Sony all the time (with partnerships, etc) and look at them...

@Vyse_the_Legend SE already build a big fanbase at PS for almost 3 decades. Their games either FF or some non-FF like KH, Parasite Eve, etc has strong synonym with PS brand. But now they gonna do less partnership with Sony which means they're gonna ditch their very close partner who supported them for almost 3 decades as well those big fanbase? Yeah that would be a very dumb decision and i doubt any SE shareholders will agree with that.

@naruball Exactly! How many games do we lament that they never got a sequel or class as cult games? Happens too often.
There's also this obsession with concurrent player counts as a metric for success lately. It makes some sense with multiplayer games but why does it matter when it comes to single player games. The whole point there is you can play when you want!
I'm sure it's because it's one of the only data points we can gather ourselves thanks to Steam's openness but it all feels like we're talking to each other as if we're marketing not players.

@rpg2000 @PuppetMaster I didn't say Square Enix will stop doing partnerships with Sony, I said they will do less. Obviously they still want to sell on PlayStation but since they want to go a multiplatform approach Square Enix will have to focus on other platforms more as well.

What constitutes success these days? I guarantee even at 3.5 million copies, the game turned a profit. So what is the gripe then, that it didn't make ENOUGH money? What a poisonous attitude that can be.

@Vyse_the_Legend That would be funny when most of their games get sold on that platform at a higher price then PC.

funny how people are jumping to the conclusion that the game has sold 5m copies. based on what, exactly? the game SHIPPED 3m copies at lanuch, yes, but that doesn't suggest those were hard SALES. it may have only sold 2.5m copies at launch, for example. that would mean it has sold an additional 1m copies in the past 24 months? maybe a bit more than that, but yes. i'd estimate the number is close to 4m at best (which includes the poor PC sales) which is still very disappointing and not enough to justify its existence for S-E. don't know why it is so difficult for some people to accept the possibility that the game may be a financial failure. it happens.

if the game had already surpassed 5m copies, we would have heard about it because that is what publishers do to prop up their shareholders when they have good news to share.

@BigRadical agreed. people fail to realize that publishers want nothing more than to make sales announcements to their shareholders and public at large when they have good news to share. there has been no celebrating whatsoever with ff16 and yet some people want to believe that it's done well for them and even exceeded 5m copies sold simply because they liked the game. the damage control and denial over this game is really weird.

@Wiceheid that doesn't change the fact it is the worst selling mainline entry since the ps1 era, even if it has in fact surpassed 4m copies sold. that's nothing to be proud of. the gaming community is significantly larger today than what it was in the 90s, with far more rpg players than ever before. budgets are also signficiantly larger and yet ff16 did not make much of an impact. this is very bad news for the franchise and s-e needs to figure out how this series moves forward because barely covering the investment for a small profit is clearly not worth the financial risk for them.

@graymamba Yes, thank you! That's exactly what I've been saying. This game was off the charts good and every bit a final fantasy as any other. The graphics, soundtrack, story, VAs, Eikon battles etc. All just fantastic. I wish some could get past the lack of turn based combat. I love it too but this game was every bit as fun as any before it.

@UltimateOtaku91 rough estimates say it cost around $100 million to make so definitely made it back two fold.

Best Final Fantasy since X- which was just as "linear". Tired of games being open world collectathons just for the sake of being open world.

Give me everything that XVI is with a turn based battle system and you've made my ideal FF game. I liked Rebirth but there was way too much unnecessary padding and JRPG cheese.

Just bought a digital copy of FF16 complete edition. It was finally within my price range. Plus Forspoken reminded me of how much I love action RPGs. Really looking forward to playing it, hopefully uninterrupted.

@Porco you forgot to take into account that in this time and age, we have more options than ever before. And through subscriptions, you only need enough time to play everything you're interested in. Also, Netflix is a thing. A fair comparison should take all many factors into consideration.