Topic: 4k TV Recommendations

Been thinking about this, and with how new HDR seems to be, it seems wise to wait a year or so rather than invest in a new TV now. Implementations will improve and prices will drop.

Sadly, waiting for tech is not my forte.

@Mega-Gazz: HDR has been around a while BUT this year, the 'minimum' standard for HDR was set. I fully expect that the display technology will continue to improve and develop. Like I said, the minimum spec has been set but NO TV display can match the 'ultimum' specs. For example, The wider colour gamut is set at BT2020 (sometimes referred to as REC2020) but all HDR TV's track about 72% (+/-5%) of this although they all track over 90% of 'P3' colour which is the 'minimum' required. Peak Brightness is another area where improvements are likely to be made. The minimum standard is 1,000 nits (with a black level up to 0.05nits with LEDs - OLEDs have a different set of parameters but the contrast ratio is similar) but this is the 'minimum'.

As a result, TV's are likely to improve on these key areas. As with all tech though, there is almost always likely to be an 'improved' version year on year. I knew this when I bought my TV too but I would rather have the technology now and enjoy what it can offer, than wait, and wait and wait knowing that as each year passes, another better option is just around the corner (so to speak).

I know that HDR and even just 4k are limited but in the space of a few months, we have seen both console manufacturers embrace both. Microsoft primarily on the media side but also some games will have HDR - games like FH3, Gears 4, Scalebound. Sony have also announced that all consoles will support HDR and the Pro will support 4k gaming and streaming. Blurays will be upscaled to 4k but a bit disappointing they didn't add-in a 4k HDR Bluray. I believe that about 25+ 4k HDR blurays are releasing before the end of the year too.

Whilst I could have waited until March+, the usual release of 2017 range TV's, I would have missed out on playing a number of games in HDR and/or enhanced visuals. I would have missed out on 100's of hours of 4k SkyQ viewing. Its similar in essence to buying a 'next' gen console early on. Its a bit limited on options but what there is looks amazing.

5-10years time, my HDR TV maybe considered average or at the bottom of the HDR scale but it will also have provided thousands of hours of entertainment and likely to be coming up for an 'upgrade'. I was early to the HD format too and whilst my TV was one of the best when I bought it, I didn't have smart or 3D options. It was also 'bulky' by today's standards. Funnily enough, I went from a 46" HD TV to a 55" 4k TV and the size difference on the wall was no different and my 55" actually weighed less because it was a lot slimmer too.

Technology moves fast and whilst its not always necessary to upgrade year on year if you want the experiences, Sometimes its worth jumping in if the experience is a 'significant' jump up. Its a bit like buying a new console near the launch - yes you may pay more and the price is likely to drop as well as the fact more content will be available but you have also missed out on a lot of 'new' experiences too. A TV though can add even more because of the multitude of different sources that use a TV - Consoles, Set top boxes, streaming services, dedicated players, USB devices etc.

That's how I feel about it anyway and at the moment, I have no regrets. I have been blown away by HDR and/or 4k. Even the quality of HD and SD pictures are improved because of the 'quality' of the screen necessary for HDR (better blacks for instance). My 'bedroom' TV was one of the best 1080p LED's of 2014 but can't match my 2016 4k HDR TV with 1080p SDR content. Before I bought my new TV, I thought it looked incredible and had a great picture, good blacks etc but this is on another level.

I understand its not cheap, its not affordable for many people - kids, families etc - it wasn't really 'affordable' for me and more than I wanted to pay (even though its 'relatively' cheap compared to other similar spec TV's) but I don't regret it and saw it as an investment for future entertainment. With more devices coming that will support 4k HDR and of course more content added all the time, I am looking forward to the next few years in field of home entertainment...

Due to my new motorbike being robbed 2 weeks after I got it I've decided I will jump on the 4K HDR TV with PS Pro bandwagon once the insurance pays out.

Due to the enjoyment Sony have given me through my PlayStations I would prefer to get a Sony TV but briefly reading this thread it seems Samsung is the best bet at the moment. HMMMM..

@kyleforrester87: NO WAY!!!! Sorry to hear that about your bike....

@BAMozzy: Haha thanks buddy, yes it was quite..frustrating (to say the least). 4 locks isn't enough apparently Trying not to dwell on it. "Remain calm. Focus on new TV and PS4 Pro."

@kyleforrester87: Probably for the best... I hope you get as much, and more enjoyment from your console/TV - at least it will get more usage in the winter...

Can someone that knows more about this stuff than me give their thoughts on this TV? I'm looking at the Samsung UN50KU6300 50-Inch TV. I'm not looking for the top of the line TV and I can't go any bigger than 50-Inch because I don't have the room.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01E69VEE6/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl...

@Splat: I wouldn't touch it at all!!! http://uk.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ku6300 may give you a lot of reasons why!
http://uk.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ks8000 is by far a better TV and will give you a proper HDR - also comes in a 49" version. The KS series will see you through the next 5-10 years as it meets the minimum standards for the future of HDR and 4k. The KU doesn't have 'proper' (certified) HDR, won't give you the wider colour gamut or decent contrast ratio. Motion is poor too. It maybe 'cheap' but it really isn't half the quality of the KS8000 (US Model number) https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-UN49KS8000-49-Inch-Ultra-Smart...
The KU shouldn't even say HDR but I guess when it was released HDR wasn't established. Its a bit like buying a 720p TV claiming its full HD before they established that 1080p was full HD...

@BAMozzy - Thanks for the info! I have to admit after researching the one you linked it does sound a lot better. The problem is the price. If I was just getting the TV it would be fine. I also have to pay for the PS4 Pro and a new HHD for the Pro.

I might just have to get the Pro first and then the TV at a later date or vice versa.

@Splat: I know the price is expensive - but for a certified HDR TV, One that actually meets the minimum standards - not one that is essentially a slightly 'brighter' TV than you have now as the KU series is, but an actual HDR TV - the price is very reasonable. Of course you could wait for the TV, Black friday is coming up, after Christmas sales and then around march, the 2017 range will be out - then prices of 2016 TV's may drop a bit more again.

If you were to buy the KU series, as soon as you switch to HDR in game, It would essentially be like turning the brightness up on your backlight to max on your current TV. You won't get the wide colour gamut that makes images much more vibrant and alive as well as that limited contrast ratio. If reviews talk about 'HDR' mode, the KU won't deliver the same results etc.

I would only recommend going for a UHD certified HDR TV as they are the ones that will give the PS4 Pro (and PS4) the proper HDR results. I am sure that going forward, HDR will be in more games as well as other media too. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being the 'minimum' standard of 4k in a few years and I can see you (and others) maybe wanting to upgrade a lot sooner if you don't buy a TV that meets the minimum standards Its not 'future proof' so to speak.

At the end of the day though, its your money and your decision. You could buy the Pro first and benefit from the enhancements it offers on your current set-up and get a TV at a later date. You could also get the TV first and benefit from HDR support in games (like Uncharted 4 - due to be 'patched' in November to have HDR). Its not as if the Pro won't enhance games for 1080p TV owners or the PS4 won't play the same games and have HDR.

Oddly enough, even though I wasn't planning on a pro my 2 year old LG 3d smart TV is going wonky (constant powering up and down).

If I were to replace then I am thinking 4k in case I ever get the pro. Issue is, I need 3d and no more than 40inch screen size And I need I on a budget. Anyone got any recommendations or just not worthy going 4k?

@Rudy_Manchego: Depending in how far you sit from the screen, 4k at 40" is unlikely to be of any significant benefit. Chances are that if you can see any improvement, it will be minimal and dependent on the scene. 3D, it seems, is dying out. Samsung has dropped 3D completely from its range. I think whether others follow suit or not, will be a matter of when not if. At 40" HDR would still offer a significant and very noticeable improvement that a resolution increase just won't give.

I know that 3D is important to some people and there are still options out there. At 40" though, I think if you want 3D, then you are probably better off buying a 1080p TV than spending 'extra' on 4K. I doubt you will find a decent 4k HDR, 3D screen at that size and without HDR, I can't see 4k offering a 'significant' improvement to justify the costs. I don't know how far you sit from your TV but I sit around 7-8 foot away from my 55" TV and 4k alone is not always obvious - I wish I had the budget to stretch to the 65" model!

http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and-home-entertainment/televi...

I'm liking the look of this one but..I'll be waiting until nearer Christmas or maybe January sales.

@kyleforrester87: Good choice. Still too expensive for me bro. Buy a car.

@themcnoisy: I fancy an MX5 lol. On topic, yeah it is too much for me to plonk down on a TV aswell to be fair.

I have one of these at the moment:

http://www.very.co.uk/sony-kdl50w805cbu-50-inch-smart-3d-full...

Hopefully I could wait for the Samsung to drop a little bit and then sell my Sony set to put toward it. Lets see what the sales bring!!!

I'm happy to run my PS Pro on my Sony set for a while

I'd rather pump all my money into a high-end PC and a Vive. That seems to be where it's at.

@Wesker: Will the FF7 remake be coming out on PC, though?

@kyleforrester87: The Samsung 55KS8000 is the model I have. Its a great TV! Its dropped a bit in price now and that;s a bargain in my opinion. I bought mine a few months ago at full price and have no regrets at all. Even less knowing that input lag with HDR is by far the best too...

@BAMozzy: Hey there, thanks for all your informative posts on 4K TV and HDR. I am currently also thinking of an upgrade for the PS4 Pro. But I was kind of unsure when I heard how much input lag those TVs normally have. Currently I own a Sony KDL 42W655A (which is the KDL 42W653 in the UK and US I think) which is known for its really low input lag. Since I did not want to miss on such a feature I was happy to hear that your satisfied with your Samsung KS8000 and the input lag that TV has. There are 3 questions I have regarding this TV. First of all, I wanted to ask if you could check the following Amazon Link from Germany, if the TV you own is the exact same one (since the model numbers vary over here):

https://www.amazon.de/Samsung-UE55KS7090-EU-Modell-UE55KS7000...

Second questions I have is regarding an article from the guys of Digital Foundry at Eurogamer.net. In case the KS8000 you own is the KS7000 in Germany, they are talking about if you switch on Game Mode on that TV that it won´t be able to show HDR content anymore and that HDR content could only be visible in Movie Mode which would result in an input lag of 112 ms which would be definatley too much for me. Is that true? Here is the link to the article:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-the-bes...

The third and last question I have is regarding the screen size. I currently on a 42 inch screen and also sit about 7-8 feet away. I always thought a 49 inches TV would definately suffice regarding that my 42 inches screen always seemed enough. But since I don`t have any experience with the image quality of 4k TVs and HDR I wonder if a bigger screen would actually result in a better gaming experience? Would be awesome if you find some time to look through those questions. Until then you all have a good day Push Square Community =)

@MindlESsSelf: The European model numbers are generally the same in Germany as they are in the UK. You sometimes see a slight variation (for example KS7000 in UK KS7005 in Europe) because of differences in power supplies but in this case the Samsung KS7000 you have listed is the same as the KS7000 in the UK (or KS8000 in the US). I have the KS8000, ( https://www.amazon.de/Samsung-UE55KS8000TXZT-UE55KS8000/dp/B0... ) which I believe has the same model number in Germany (but KS9000 in US). The KS7000 is a very good TV and HDR certified too - it does have the same panel as the KS8000 but does have a few differences - like 2.1 40w speakers compared to 4.1 60w speakers, not quite so good local dimming or as bright peak brightness (still great and more than the minimum specs require), no twin tuners and a different stand system but it is cheaper and offers the same input lag in HDR gaming.

The Samsung KS Series can't match the input lag of the Sony (approx 15ms) you currently have but its still an impressive 20.5 ms which is roughly six thousandths (0.006s to show how small that difference is) of a second in standard game mode and only seven thousands of a second with 4k HDR content in game mode. The next best TV can only offer 35ms at best which is more than a hundredth of a second difference and often more in 4k HDR content.

When Eurogamer/Digital Foundry first looked at the Samsung KS range, it was thought that HDR only worked in Movie (and then after a software update -Standard) mode which with all the processing etc does give a 'low' input lag. Subsequent to that, Samsung tweeted that HDR is available and updated the firmware too for 'game mode' and now it has been tested properly, its shown to deliver the 'full' HDR in this mode and at a very slight (0.002s max) increase to input lag.

HDTV's review states (full review HERE)
"Since last year, Samsung has consistently produced the most responsive televisions for playing video games, and the UE55KS8000 carried on in the same vein. With [Game Mode] engaged, the display returned a crazy-fast figure of merely 21ms from a Leo Bodnar input lag tester."
"During playback of HDR content, lag time only rose a tiny bit to 21.6ms with [Game Mode] enabled when fed a video signal containing HDR metadata, which bodes well for playing HDR games from a Microsoft Xbox One S or PS4 Pro console. We watched a bunch of 4K Blu-rays and did some measurements in [Game Mode], and verified that HDR impact wasn’t watered-down in any significant manner (peak brightness 1200 nits)."

Other websites (like RTINGS - US based site so model numbers may differ) have also recently updated all their input lag information now that both the XB1 and PS4 are adding HDR to gaming. There results are virtually identical to HDTV's too - they vary by a few 10,000ths of a second!

Screen size matters more with just the resolution increase. Many people won't see much of a benefit to the increase on a 'small' screen at a distance compared to a standard 1080p TV. HDR TV's though can improve the PQ in SDR content - inc HD - just because of the quality of 'blacks'. My KS8000 looks much better with HD than my 48H6400 1080p Bedroom TV. As a result you could see 'improvement' but as far as the extra pixels, the difference between a good quality HD and 4k source is negligible. The bigger the screen, the more noticeable the difference. HDR (proper HDR as certified) though is a significant step up regardless of screen size and obvious regardless. Some TV's 'claim' HDR but all they offer is a wider contrast ratio (SDR blacks and colours but can go a bit brighter than SDR content - they scale HDR down to fit).

I would always recommend going as big as you can afford and comfortably fit where 4K is concerned. If you are unsure, take measurements and either mock up a 'dummy screen' from cardboard/paper and see if you can stretch to that size. You may be surprised at how 'big' you can go. 55" isn't that much bigger in reality - a couple of inches wider and higher. The bigger you go, the more noticeable increases to the pixel count will make. HDR though is not dependent on screen size but is only available on 4k TVs. In my opinion, HDR is more of a step up than HD was to SD.

People complain about the PS4 Pro affecting MP and balance. Having the right TV has more of an advantage than having more pixels etc. A bigger screen makes it easier to see distant players - try playing in Split screen (if it reduces image size rather than narrow the view) and see how much more difficult it is to see distant objects etc. Lower input lag makes it quicker to react, aim in and make precise movements, get your shots off etc.

I appreciate that budgets play an important factor and I also know that room layout etc varies too. TV's are also not just used for gaming and therefore what suits 1 person may not be suitable for another. @Rudy_Manchego: for example wants 3D and therefore the Samsung KS range is probably not going to fit his needs. If 4k HDR gaming and input lag is the most important factor in your TV purchasing decision, then the Samsung KS range is currently the best option.

Hope that helps...