Topic: Mass Effect: Andromeda

This is the one game I'd really really like to be good, as we don't get many sci-fi AAA rpgs. Can't help to feel apprehensive about it though. Things that have me worried include recent Bioware track record and especially all the similarities to DA:I, terrible character models, overall change in tone, generic looking main characters and on top of that some reported performance issues.

Imagine it may be tough to play Andromeda after Horizon and I just hope they will somehow pull off the exploration aspect and story/characters.

I really can't see how this and Horizon can be compared. I know from a genre, they both fall into the same category but after that, the differences start to stack up. Horizon is an incredible game and the combat is phenomenal. Its not got the deepest array of upgrade paths, weaponry etc though. Its story is quite 'linear' and whilst their are a few points that offer a 'choice' in dialogue, how much of a difference that makes, I don't know - I only played through once and got the Platinum.

Combat in Mass Effect is very different. Its much more of a cover shooter - although that has now been opened up more than previous entries. You also have a 'squad' with their own unique abilities and of course various different builds that can have much more impact on play style. Its not fixed in one area, like Horizon is either.

Personally I think Horizon has more in common with the more recent Tomb Raiders than Mass Effect. Had Tomb Raider (particularly the first) not separated the Island up into 'Hubs' and had a few more side quests etc, it would have been more comparable. The Skills are 'similar' in some ways, weapons though are more 'upgradeable' but doesn't have an emphasis on elemental damage/effects.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't a criticism of either Mass Effect or Horizon:ZD. Horizon is easily one of the best games this generation but in also quite different from Mass Effect. Its like comparing something like Gran Tourismo or Forza to something like Motorstorm or even Mario Kart just because they are 'racing' games or Doom to Battlefield 1 because they are FPS games. Its like saying you don't know if you will be Yooka-Laylee because you have Ratchet and Clank...

@FaultyDroid
Add jade empire in there too. Most of those games were good at the time, but i totally agree the format is tired. At least they stopped that '4 main hub world' thing that features in many of those games

I get the impression Bioware are suffering from some sort of Bethesda syndrome, in that they never look beyond their previous successes, thinking 'hey that thing we did last time didnt flop so lets do that again but with different stuff in it..' i.e Skyrim => Fallout 4 (same thing with guns & robots) this time its DA:I => ME:A (same thing with guns & robots) its as if they refuse to acknowledge the leaps forward other teams have made (cd projekt red) except with a fraction of the hype, & without ludicrously priced & half-arsed microtransactions & DLC's. Bioware were great storytellers once apon a time, now IMO they're almost right up there with Ubisoft / EA on the growing list of gamings rip-off merchants.

@FaultyDroid

Bioware were bought out by EA before ME2, and I would suggest that was where the rot began, for many of the reasons you state.

I think ME 1 was the last true Bioware game, everything after that is EA, and even though ME 2 was a high point, the law of diminishing returns definitely applies from this point onwards. I speak as someone who once considered Bioware the best RPG Dev in the business.

@KratosMD I agree to a point. Look at FF7-10*, MGS 1-3 compared to FF15 and MGS5. But then maybe consider games like the new Tomb Raiders against the old ones - a much stronger take on the story. Then of course you get games like the Souls franchise which require you to pay attention to your surrounds to understand the lore and interpret it in your own way. Honestly this is my preferred way of story telling in games but it absolutely has to be done well. Modern technology should generally help developers tell better stories in this way.

*Play FF9 already, Jesus!! lol

@KratosMD Well, it's almost like the way of non-story driven games has gone the online multiplayer route and the story driven games more to the action/RPG style. Those complaining about cut-scenes probably play CoD and other online games. Those of us that love stories go action/PRG.
@kyleforrester87 Yeah, I like stories and lore told simply, yet have a richness to them. Sometimes stories are so simplified to cater to a larger audience, it loses its fun. I guess all games can't tell a story like Naughty Dog.

@KratosMD Good, thank me later! lol

@starhops Yeah - I know I bang on about this game a lot but I can't think of a better example than Fez in that respect. At face value its a cutesy platformer, and it never really needs to be more than that, but I love all the 2001 Space Oddysey-esque lore in the background.

@kyleforrester87
Whats weird is that I was actually going to use FFVII and MGS1 on the PS1 as examples in my response to @KratosMD.. Took the words out of my mouth there.

Unfortunately, AAA titles are going much the same way as the movies, i.e all about the bigger and better effects than the prequel, wowing the crowds with a glitzy movie premiere, whereas games now might have a huge booth at E3 and maybe a teaser followed by a mostly scripted 'demo' in which you're shown a brief part of a dramatic cutscene and led to believe the entire game will follow suit. It's all false promises & illusions, all style and no substance.

I'm unashamedly one of the 'muh immersions' crowd, that like to be completely wrapped up in the story, its been a very long time since i've stayed up til the small hours playing a game simply because I had to see how it ends.. Just like a good book is hard to put down. Going back to Bioware, DA:I is a prime example of a game that had bucketloads of rich lore to throw at you, lore coming out of their bloody ears.. But the story was practically non-existent, you didn't care about your characters or what was going to happen to them, so why are you going to stop playing to read that scroll you just picked up?

A recent exception, as @starhops says above is The Last of Us, I was sort of hoping big titles would follow suit after seeing just how engaging a game could be in the right hands.

Sorry for rambling..! Barely any human contact all day.

@FaultyDroid Hmmm I think so called AAA games are better now than they were in the 2008-2012 period. It seemed like back then everything was trying to be COD. There have been some awesome big games from 2014 onwards. Maybe I'm being overly dramatic but I'm quite sure the state of gaming in all areas is better now than it was half a decade ago..(except perhaps on Sonys handheld front!)

@CountFunkula78
I knew EA were publishing their stuff but I never knew they were bought outright, but cheers yeah I guess that does explain a lot..!

So Mass Effect Andromeda is getting slaughtered in previews, huh?

I'm now worried that Bioware will be the next classic/respected studio that EA have bought, run into the ground and closed... and if the preview rumours are correct, it might even be a good thing.

Anyway, worst case scenario and all that. Still hoping here, fingers crossed for Tuesday...

@johncalmc I wouldn't say 'slaughtered' but a lot are saying that its not outstanding. Combat is good but a lot seem to think the 'scan' thing is not great - not like Aloys Focus and the Story has been a bit 'slow'. Some say it doesn't seem to explain a lot either and some say the 'general' movement feels 'odd'. To start running for example it takes a moment to build up speed and when you stop, it takes a moment to slow-down and 'stop' - more like real life but not necessarily 'great' in a video game. Not sure why you would want to have the Nomad in 4 wheel drive and have to engage 6 wheel drive to go up hills etc. Not sure what the benefit of 4 wheel drive is - faster perhaps but how much faster? Still its supposed to be 'fun' to drive.

Most of the 'previews' are based on the first 2hrs or so. With a new cast and crew to introduce, I can imagine it being slow to a degree...

@BAMozzy I wouldn't say slaughtered (but then again games rarely do get slaugthered in previews) but it's certainly getting a lot of flack from RPS, Gamespot, Kotaku, PC Gamer, Giant Bomb etc.

I've slowly come to terms with the god awful character models, the janky animations etc, but I'm REALLY worried about the writing and the characters. Both outlets and players who played the 10 hour trail were criticizing it a lot, and it's really concerning as it will, as I've said before, make or break the game.

I mean this is just unbeliavable...people were harping on that one Horizon scene, but this is much, much worse, it's like the game was written in some other language and someone just straight up butchered the translation (and I'm not even getting into the delivery). I'm sure (or rather hope?) this is the worse that i gets, but man...

@Lurker I know Mass Effect: Andromeda had a troubled development with inconsistency from the staffing - lots of people leaving and being replaced. Part of me though wonders if the criticism is more to do with the quality of writing in games like Horizon and Witcher 3 and that those 'reviewers' are now expecting this to be the 'minimum' standard. Whether the game's writing is a similar standard to the predecessors or even slightly better or not, it may not meet the standards of those games and therefore being criticised. Fallout 4 had criticism from a lot of sectors too - some thought the game looked like a more colourful Fallout 3 and felt more like Fallout 3.5 rather than Fallout 4 with a really 'clunky' base building built on. The story wasn't as well received as Fallout 3 either but I do wonder if some of that criticism was because we had the Witcher 3 a few months prior. The Witcher 3 in many ways set a 'new' standard and all RPG games since are referencing it. Even Horizon - especially around the side quests and their writing.

That 'quest' which was highlighted in Horizon, wasn't 'bad' in context but I do agree it could look much worse if you only highlight that small section of dialogue. Time will tell of course. On a separate note, the MP co-op horde mode looked like it played well...

Gotta say though, early impressions of animations & visuals aside (along with my earlier gripes about lack of originality for 14 years.. lets shelve those too for now..) Bioware games all share a common trait that they only really open up after the first few hours. The first parts of their stories tend to be the most monotonous, I remember this being the case as far back as KOTOR on the Xbox,& that opened up into one of my fave RPG's of all time. Here's hoping thats the case here, & its just a bunch of trigger happy writers out for blood making this look worse than it is..

Well thats my positive 5mins for the day

BioWare (old BioWare anyway) are known for creating interesting and likable characters but from early previews it seems like the crew of Andromeda are quite forgettable.

@BAMozzy I do have to say that Horizon has made scanning awesome with Aloy's Focus. It feels so smooth and just works so well. I'm not sure how Mass Effect is going to hold up to that.

Played the first chunk of the story via Origin Access on PC. The animations and voice acting are pretty poor (I'm sure everybody's seen the GIFs and videos doing the rounds by now), but it plays just like a Mass Effect game - for better or worse.

By the end of my time with it, I did feel the desire to continue on with the story and discover what was happening with the main alien race I was facing at that point. I'll likely not buy it day one, but will certainly be keeping my eye out for it should I see it on sale anywhere.