Topic: Maybe It's Finaly Coming...BC?

The PS5 could be fully Backwards Compatible because its essentially a 'PS4' but with much better hardware - like replacing your CPU/GPU and increasing the RAM in a PC, the games still run. Of course that doesn't mean that Sony will do this as the PS4 proves, it hasn't negatively impacted sales - even after MS added it to their XB1. Sony also stated that BC is a much requested feature but seldom used but if it improved 'old' games by using the extra 'power' to ensure games run at their capped level, maybe even with baked in Anisotropic Filtering, or even 'enhanced' to full 4k, maybe more would use it. I do understand that BC tends to be most important in the 'early' days of console ownership - before people have built up enough of a library of new games. I know there is always a 'section' of the gamers that will use the function beyond that but we as 'enthusiasts' are in the minority.

If Sony were to offer BC in the same format as MS, they would have a dedicated team testing each game, checking the licensing, getting in touch with 3rd Party developers/publishers for permission etc. Games would 'dribble' out rather than all come all at once - at least with 'older' generations (PS3 and older). Its much more likely that full BC could work with PS5 although there could still be some 'issues' - one of the reasons the Pro didn't launch with a 'Boost' mode and that Sony has a disclaimer on it too. Some games rely on very specific timings but if the CPU (for example) can process those much quicker, the timings can be messed up. That was a major reason the CPU of the Pro (and X for that matter) stuck with a slightly upclocked Jaguar. I know 'cost' gets mentioned but Puma isn't expensive and replaced Jaguar. Ryzen would have been but a Puma offered a more efficient and lower power consumption option but basically the 'same' features, functions and architecture as the Jaguar.

One of the differences between consoles and PC's though is that games are like 'highly tuned' cars - everything optimised specifically for the hardware. With PC's games are more 'general' and PC's can brute force performance. Granted we can look at a PC with a RX480 and get an idea of what a console 'could' perform at but how many gaming PC's would work 'well' when paired with a Jaguar (or equivalent) CPU? Most tests are with an i5 at 3+ghz. GPU render times maybe similar as they both may still need to draw 1440p visuals but all the 'brains', the AI, Physics calculations etc are handled by the CPU which instructs the GPU what to draw. I know some games may use the GPU to handle some of the CPU workload but to hit 60fps, both the CPU and GPU need to complete all their tasks in 16.66ms and the more powerful/faster these are, the easier it is to hit that benchmark. In consoles, the games are generally optimised based on the timings of these tasks with some aspects on 'cycles' based on the frequency of the CPU. If the CPU cycles at a different rate, this can throw up issues to how the game actually works - boost mode messed up Soma for example but these are few and far between.

Point is, its not necessarily going to work just because of the same architecture. PC's sometimes require Driver updates to get games to work as expected with newer, more powerful hardware - even if the architecture is the same. To go back to the 'car' analogy, its like setting up a car specifically to run on one track at a specific temp/weather conditions with no options to tweak those settings for a variety of tracks, temps, surfaces or weather conditions. That could mean that you take that car to a different track and it still performs as well or even better but it could mean that it throws up issues too.

@Hapuc Again companies patent alot of things that just don't see the light of day. If they think they can/will use it they will patent it but that's not guaranteed. Take Nintendo for example they had a patent for that vital sensor thing for the Wii even had a mock up made for it, but it was never released.

@Tasuki Like I said maybe something could come up or not but they patented this in 2015 now they are using the same patent in 2018 we will see if it is ps4 to ps5 cool if it is ps3 to ps4 awesome whatever the case I like it that BC is coming because Sony is always slow at the start of each gen this would be awesome to have.

@Octane Hmm well if the PS3 and Older gen's can't beon Ps4 It would be cool for ps4 to be on Ps5 but I think ps5 could brute force the emulators to work on PS5.

@Hapuc Well, yes, emulation is always an option, but you still need to test every individual game to ensure quality. I mean, they don't have to do that, but emulators can't guarantee everything runs well.

@Hapuc Again, that doesn't prove that BC will ever come - not to the PS4 with PS3 (and older) games OR even PS5 with PS4 (and/or older) games. This proves absolutely nothing at all. As @Tasuki pointed out, many companies - inc Sony patent designs, concepts etc that NEVER come to fruition. They had the boomerang controller and even one with a touchscreen too (maybe to compete with the WiiU) that never materialised. This Patent could be just to compete with MS but may never be implemented at all.

I would NEVER get my hopes up on a patent as few rarely make it to market. Sony even patented a version of 'Kinect' too http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2012/02/24/another-playst... but I doubt that will ever see the light of day now...

@Hapuc And patents have time limits, just cause they patented it few years ago and repatented again because it's running out and they still might use it. Doesn't mean they will.

@Tasuki @BAMozzy We will see If it happes it happens if it doesn't No problem then.
But it's gonna be funny when BC arrives

@Hapuc And it will be even funnier when it doesn't.

@Tasuki You wanna bet?
I'm betting there will be PS3 to Ps4 or ps4 to Ps5

@Hapuc I would take the bet that PS3 to PS4 BC never happens!! PS4 to PS5 is a possibility - but only if it works for Sony's business model. That will depend on whether they think the addition of BC and any cost to incorporate it will entice more people to buy a PS5 and offset any losses they could make from expanding PSNow and releasing remastered versions of games.

Whilst PS3 to PS4 isn't an impossibility, the likelihood of it happening is far slimmer than the chances of it never happening. That's like backing a 3 legged donkey to win the Grand National whilst it not happening is virtually a dead cert. Why cancel PS3 IGC games if they intend to bring PS3 games to PS4? Surely they would keep the PS3 games and give those to PS4 owners just like MS do with the XB360 GwG games - especially as the cost to PS+ went up as well. PS3 BC and continued PS3 IGC games would increase the 'value' of PS+...

@BAMozzy Ok then one down only one left to go
But we will see how will all go down i'm interested now.

@Hapuc Another reason to keep in mind for that patent is that I am pretty sure Sony is developing the PS5 now so if anything it would be for that not the PS4.

Honestly this late in the PS4 lifespan it won't come there's no reason for it to.

And honestly if Backwards compatibility was so important to people they would have just bought an Xbox One instead of a PS4 but with PS sales at where they are, I guess Backwards compatibility isn't that big of a deal.

@Tasuki Nope that's when you are completely wrong BC didn't come with any console at launch and Ps4 hit it's stride by the time Ms came out with BC on Xbox.
And when they announced Xone S they announced BC and From what I gather Xbox One litteraly was winning in Npd For Months.
And I still don't get people who say it's not important if a Guy Skipped a gen and want's to play some Games and already has a Ps4 why shouldn't he have the option to play those older games.

@Hapuc But he does have an option it's called buying a PS3

i wouldn't put a bet on PS5 having BC with PS4 games myself, it might happen, but it's not an absolute shoe-in imo. the jaguar AMD processor used in PS4/XB1 is quite different to the latest AMD CPUs.. it has out-of-order and speculative execution and doesn't share resources between cores. AMD's latest architecture uses simultaneous multi-threading and even though it's 'x86', it is a signifcant enough departure from jaguar. the XBX had the potential of using a zen processor, but i read somewhere (eurogamer i think) that compatibility with existing XB1 games was a big issue, especially with the timescales. that "disrupt timing of processes that takes place on one or more processes" could be some mechanism to simulate the order of execution of processes as they would occur on PS4.

btw: i thought x360 games that do work on XB1 were 'recompiled' and were downloaded from the marketplace. you can't just stick an x360 dvd in the drive and it's good to go?.

i buy almost all my games on blu-ray, so i'm not remotely interested in digital only BC..

@Tasuki But why would he Spend more money when there can be an option to have on a console that he already owns,last ones did it why can't this one.

@Hapuc Because I don't know about you but I buy new consoles to play new games. If I want to play PS3 games or anything else other then PS4 games I wouldn't have bought a PS4.

Honestly backwards compatibly has never been a factor in buying a system for me. If I want to play older games I have those systems. Not to pull the old back in my day thing but I never understand when a new system playing an older systems games was a key feature. When SNES came out we didn't sit here and say oh I want to play my NES games on the SNES no we all wanted the better looking, better playing games. Same with the N64 and GameCube.

Technology is meant to go forward not backwards.

@Tasuki Hmm I can see your point and obviously, everyone has their own perspective but actually, the lack of backwards compatibility was a big source of contention for a lot of retailers and consumers back in the early console days. Nintendo angered a lot of people when they released the SNES with no backward compatibility (which Sega offered via an add on). Admittedly they were parents who had spent a lot of money on games etc.

I think the gaming landscape has changed. Games, to me, are a valid media form. I can, largely, read most books ever written, listen to most music and see most films (obviously exceptions but you get my drift). In ten years time, I may not be able to play Bloodborne if my PS4 dies and patches go offline. That is a bit of art that I would want to experience again. It used to be that you could hook up your old console and off you go but this won't be the case for PS3 era onwards.

@Tasuki Exactly. People harp on about backwards compatibility like it's this super important factor in owning a console, and I suppose it is for some people. But in reality only a small percentage people use it on Xbox, that will be something that Sony will look at along with how feasible and cost effective it is to do it.
Like I hear some people say that Sony will have VR 2.0 built into the next console. Really? And make the
same mistake Microsoft did with Kinect and XBO.