Topic: Playstation 4 Backloggery and most wanted!

@LtSarge The easiest solution is to just buy games on your preferred platform for them and not worry too much about performance. A few games are performance nightmares, but most games run well enough. I know we exist in this weird subcultural bubble where we obsess over performance metrics, but, at the end of the day, if you're enjoying your time with a game, it doesn't matter if it's the "best" or "worst" performing version of a game. Sort of liking enjoying the DVD version of a film versus the Blu-Ray or 4K Ultra-HD whatever version.

I'd be surprised if we didn't get a more capable Switch at some point, considering the New 3DS was an improvement on the old one, with some games showing significantly improved performance on the newer model. Also, PS4 Pro and Xbox One X arguably made the mid-gen hardware refresh strategy a fixture going forward. It's all part and parcel with consoles becoming more PC-like environments in the last ten years.

Of course, with the continued chip shortage going on, who knows what's going to happen in the immediate future.

@LtSarge If some games have performance issues on base consoles now, it's probably because these games are really meant to be played on the new gen hardware. I'm sure they would run good enough on the PS4 Pro, but still, the base consoles have been around for a long time now and it's not totally surprising if there's a new game here and there now that might have issues running on it.

With that said, I wouldn't be quite as concerned with the new gen consoles running into those problems. They are a good leap up in overall power, especially over the base consoles, so they should be able to capably run games for a long time just like consoles used to.

Also, using current hardware vs. a mid-gen upgrade, for quite a while games ran very good on the base PS4 even though they were released PS4 Pro enhanced on day 1. Sony has been pretty good with having their base hardware still be able to run games admirably far down the line, and I would imagine it's natural for a game here and there to have performance issues really far into a console's lifespan. It's also pretty clear that, while the game seems to be pretty good, your example of Guardians seems to be mediocre in terms of optimization out of the gate given framerate issues at 60 FPS even on new gen hardware with the resolution being all the way down at 1080p.

@Ralizah Well I tried to apply that strategy last year when I bought Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order on Xbox One instead of PS4 because I was just getting back into Xbox. Then I realised that the XB1 version has severe framerate issues and it ruined my experience with the game. Had I known about this, then I would've just bought the PS4 version instead. It's one thing if there are a few framerate drops here and there, but when you walk through areas and the game struggles to keep up then it's not a good experience for me. It's just that, if I know one version is better than the other one then why shouldn't I get that version?

I mean, if the next Switch turns out to be a full successor rather than a simple refresh then I'd be more willing to get it. Because that means that Nintendo will support it for the next coming years instead of releasing a brand new system a few years later. I think Nintendo has also stated that they aren't going to abandon the Switch concept anytime soon, so if we get a "next-gen Switch" then I'm all for it, as long as it comes out in like 1-2 years lol.

@KilloWertz But if you think about it, what you said doesn't really make much sense because companies shouldn't be releasing games on older models if they won't run well on them. Then we have that whole Cyberpunk problem again where the game should've just been made for next-gen consoles. But instead, we have half a dozen different consoles to consider when buying a game. That's why I don't like all these mid-gen refreshes because that means companies are forced to release poor versions of their games on base models just so they can have better versions on PS4 Pro/Xbox One X since they can't release on the mid-gen systems exclusively. The point is that if PS4 Pro/One X hadn't existed, then companies would've put in more effort into making base PS4/Xbox One games run better. And I'm not talking about specifically games coming out in 2021, I'm talking about the period from when these mid-gen systems came out, i.e. 2016-2021. Sure most games ran well up until maybe 2019 when we started to see games like Control and Borderlands 3 have performance issues on base consoles.

In terms of Guardians of the Galaxy, I know the game just isn't that well-optimised in general but the framerate is still better on base Xbox One compared to base PS4, which is unusual because it's usually the other way around. And personally, I'd rather have a game with low resolution but higher framerate than vice versa.

@LtSarge Having only one console has made me less aware of performance issues between game versions. “Ignorance is bliss” I guess in that regard. I just play everything on PlayStation and am none the wiser when I’m playing an inferior version. 😅

I remember playing Skyrim on PS3 and it being one of my very favorite PS3 games, and in fact one of my favorite games of all time to that point. I had a vague knowledge that the PS3 version was broken, as it was widely discussed in games media at the time, but I didn’t have any other options. So I effin’ loved that game, regardless.

Now that I’m a proud owner of a PS5, it’s kind of a non-issue for me, like you mentioned. I can choose to play on the current gen and know that I’m typically getting the best experience. …Still, there will always be those Digital Foundry comparisons with XBOneX and PC that dissect the differences. I’ll sometimes watch their videos just to see if I can really pick out the small graphical perks on one version vs another (I usually can’t) just for my curiosity, but I know at the end of the day that I’m buying the game on PS.

There does come a small internal debate about whether to buy the PS4 version or a PS5 version of a game. Fortunately, many games have free upgrade paths so it really doesn’t matter. But given the choice there, unless there’s a huge price difference then it’ll obviously be splurging for the PS5 version, like with upcoming Forbidden West. No matter how wonderfully the reviews say the PS4 version runs, I’m certain I’ll pony up the dough for the current gen version.

@Th3solution this is a great point. Sometimes scrolling a digital foundry article, I can't tell the difference either

I suppose it's all small gains with flat screen gaming. HDR, 4k, Better lighting, realistic water, foliage etc. They all have incrementally improved and we are now we're we are.

The big issue we have now is game developers producing games for 7 year old PCs at a lower spec than base PS4. This will hold back the big pros of owning a PS5.

@themcnoisy Yeah, that’s a good way to describe it — incremental improvements. Generational improvements seem small as you’re experiencing it going forward, but going back makes the differences pop a little more obviously. I’ve done a little gaming on my PS4 lately just for convenience sake, after months of just using my PS5 exclusively, and man, the difference feels more drastic. Mostly the load times, but also the graphical fidelity of 1080p vs 4K, as well as frame rate. Also small things like the amount of subtle facial animation and texture - things I normally would have said look great on my base PS4, now look wooden or bland. I’ve become a bit spoiled.

That is true that the game development progress is probably taking a hit now and so the real technical reach of PS5 and modern PCs is likely not to be seen for a while longer while the market demands that games be available on older hardware for a while.

I might as well update my backlog while I’m here 😄….

>>>>Previous Projects -

PS5
Final Fantasy 7 Remake - done!
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart - started!
PS4
13 Sentinels - very small progress
Resident Evil 3 - done!
Vita
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty - nope.

>>>>>Previously Planned Purchases -

The Last of Us Part II - purchased!
Kena: Bridge of Spirits - not yet.
Guardians of the Galaxy - purchased!

———————

>>>>Currently On Deck -

PS5
Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart - only about 15% through with this game. It’s a great one and I expect this will be my main game on PS5 for a few weeks
Demon’s Souls - Feeling like I’ll start this as soon as Ratchet is complete.
PS4
Rime - started this charming game and made it halfway before hitting a snag. I plan to complete this when the mood strikes.
13 Sentinels - fortunately this game is manageable to play in spurts since it’s composed of lots of small snippets of chopped up story. For some reason I have just made really slow progress here.
The Last of Us 2 - if/when I move on from 13 Sentinels, I think I’ll go back to the zombie well.
Vita
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty - the next time I want handheld gaming, this is where I still plan to go.

>>>>>>>Planned Purchases -

Kena: Bridge of Spirits - still want this one.
Hades - I can’t keep from being curious about this, and it’s not very expensive, so it might be an impulse buy one day.
Gran Turismo 7 - I’m thinking that this is the only game coming up I’ll get on release. It’s still 4 months away so maybe I’m planning too far ahead. A lot can change in that timeframe but this is my plans for now.

@Th3solution I just started DeS last week, and loving it! Let me know if you begin, and perhaps we can help each other out with summons/bosses etc should things get too challenging...

For what its worth, I would recommend Hades>Kena... especially if you are soon to be starting DeS. Kena is a great game, but some elements (particularly boss fights) are quite 'Souls-Like'... to the point that it felt like a slightly watered down DeS and missing all the RPG mechanics/levelling etc.

Hades is outstanding, and something that can be satisfying to play in either short bursts (20 mins can be an average run) or longer sessions. Its a fairly unique rogue-lite also in that every run feels like progress made, and there are many 'carry-over' items/upgrades/techniques so you never feel like time was wasted. The characters and story-telling are top-class, as well as the level of variety per run. I believe you can grab it for basically very little £££..... I still drop in and out of it, total about 80 hrs (Switch).

If you're the kind of person who is blessed with the ability to multi-task and play different games side-by-side, I think DeS and Hades would compliment one another nicely. (The former being a 'sit-down' and concentrate hard game, whilst latter is more 'pick up and play')

@CJD87 That’s great feedback and I am excited to sink my teeth into Demon’s Souls. I wanted to put some space between it and Returnal, out of concern for my own mental health 😉, but it’s been a couple months and about 7 games played since my finishing of Housemarque’s opus, so my gamer resolve is fully replenished and ready for a challenge again.

Cooperating sounds like a great idea and I’m definitely open to it, but I am running into the holidays and game time has been sporadic to say the least and who knows when I’ll get the time. And I really plan to complete Rift Apart before opening up a new game, so it could be a while. I’ll keep you posted on when my situation to start it arises.

I do multi-task decently (although one game tends to get the short end of the stick) and usually I play 2-4 games side by side, but I’m at the 3 game mark now and I also shot my wad as far as gaming budget. Still, you’re tempting me a lot with Hades. It’s only $20 right now and sounds well worth it. It’s good to hear it could be easily mixed in with other more intense games like DeS and so that might push it further to the top on my wishlist. When I do concurrent games I do like them to compliment one another (be of differing genres or art styles, etc)

I will say that I have a slight reluctance about Hades because the last (and only) Supergiant game I played was Transistor and despite widespread praise I heard about it, I thought it was just ‘okay.’ I was a little disappointed and only finished it out of sheer feeling of obligation. Still, I know Hades is a whole different thing and I’m sure it will sit much better with me.

@Th3solution Yeah it's definitely much simpler if you already have the latest console. I just don't have money to spend on consoles right now, especially since PS5 can cost up to €800 due to how rare they are. That's why I have to rely on my base consoles and seeing as how a lot of games work well on them but some don't, it just irritates me. If there was some consistency among developers, then I wouldn't have to worry about which version to get. I kinda wish there were some regulations that you have to offer a standard level of specs in order to sell your game. That way it doesn't fall onto the consumer to find out which version is good or bad.

But yeah, I guess it's also because I'm the type of person who buys all three major consoles while most people only have one or two. I think I'll change that going into the next generation.

@Kidfried Well now both Microsoft and Sony don't seem to mind that their consumers are playing on PC considering they're both releasing more first-party titles on PC. But if that's the case, then that could mean that they won't release new iterations of PS5 and Series X mid generation if they don't care about competing with PC anymore. So who knows, based on your reasoning, maybe I can just buy a PS5 and not have to worry about a new model coming out! We'll just have to see, but I'm glad you brought up that argument as I didn't even think about that.

@LtSarge Looked at the DF piece on it. Is the framerate just crashing and making the game pause for seconds at a time on Xbox One? That's what it seemed like, anyway. tbh I've never seen anything like that in a game before on a console!

I do think it's probably the exception to the rule. It's a late-gen, especially demanding game being played on the weakest (non-Nintendo) console at the time.

Most games run basically fine on the consoles they're on, though, and the Pro hardware is rarely necessary to have a good time. And I wouldn't expect these performance issues to keep cropping up on the next-gen consoles anyway, which are fairly beefy in most regards (even the Series S, which has a strong CPU and an SSD, even if the video card isn't great compared to the X/PS5).

@themcnoisy Gosh, that's an awful lot to go through. I'm really glad the surgery was a success and you're feeling so much better.

Currently Playing

• Tales of Arise [PS5] - It's taken an age for me to get through this, but I'm slowly getting there.
• Metroid Dread [Switch] - Another game where progress was initially slow, as I struggled with the wretched E.M.M.I enemies. Now getting though it at a reasonable pace.
• Shin Megami Tensei V [Switch] - Having two Switch games on the go was probably a little silly, especially considering this drains the battery faster than any other game I've played. Alternating between this and Metroid and rather enjoying it.

strong]Things to fish out the backlog pile[/strong]

Quite a few odds and ends to finish by the end of the year, including the half-complete Persona 4 Arena Ultimax and perhaps some Assassin's Creed Odyssey DLC, but the following are the main ones I plan on playing. For now, anyway.

• The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - Bought this in the current PSN sale, and although it's a massive time investment I adored the game first time round and can't wait to replay it.
  Pokémon Shining Pearl - Meant to cancel my preorder and forgot. I won't touch it until SMTV is completed.
• Ys: Memories of Celceta - I shall march onward with my noble quest to get through the Ys series. The games are great fun, so looking forward to playing this.
  Ratchet & Clank: Nexus - Carried over from my previous list.

Things to buy

• Pokémon Legends: Arceus - This is the only game on the horizon I've committed to buying. Nothing else has caught my eye yet, but that's great because it gives me time to properly play all of the above.

Old currently playing

• Nier Replicant ver. lots of numbers - Just one more playthrough to go, which can now wait until next year.
  [del]Ys Origin[/del - Completed as all three characters and even finished a few more Ys games!</ul><u>Old Backlog
  Mass Effect 2 Legendary Edition - Didn't get to this.
  Persona 5 Strikers - Got partway through it and then got distracted by Tales. I don't particularly like it. The Persona 5-ishness is great, but the Musou elements are mediocre.
  Fire Emblem Awakening - Haven't touched it, as I'm prioritising Ys.
  Ratchet & Clank: Nexus - Nup.

Old things to buy

• The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword - Bought, played and completed!
• Deathloop - I lost all interest in buying this and have completely gone off the idea of ever playing it. So I'll just replay Dishonored instead.
• Metroid Dread - Currently playing this.
• Shin Megami Tensei V - Currently playing this.

@mookysam Out of interest, what made you take such a hard turn on Deathloop? It seems to have been fairly well-received.

I mean, I don't want to play it, but I never planned on getting it in the first place, whereas you seem to have at least initially been interested.

@LtSarge Thinking about what I said? Who does that?

Like others have said, I still think trying to stick with one console as your main one is viable. The last generation was the first one with mid-gen refreshes/add-ons in a long time, but I don't think the amount of games with big enough performance issues to ruin the experience was large enough to force you to own a PlayStation and an Xbox just to get a good experience with most games. Guardians is a rare example of a game that had performance issues when the resolution was dropped as low as it was, and Control had performance issues on every version of an Xbox One or PS4 until they released the Ultimate Edition. That's on Remedy just like Guardians' issues are on that developer, but also both games are easily more than perfectly playable even with framerate issues.

I'm not a fan of the mid-gen refreshes either. I understand them doing it last gen to an extent given the quick rise in interest in 4k content, but I actually do hope they skip it this gen. The only thing would be to improve things enough so basically all games can run on the systems in 4k/60 with no issues unless the developer is just poor at optimization, but I do believe the hardware is just fine the way it is and things should get better with framerates and such in time. I also would feel pretty confident in still buying a PlayStation Studios release as their developers manage to get more out of aging hardware than most.

@KilloWertz Good points there and well made. Don't worry, it happens to all of us now and again.

I'm the same with the mid gen upgrades and think there is less of a need for one this gen. 4K was way more popular when the Pro came out than 8K will be in a even a couple of years I reckon. Especially as the PS5 is supposed to be 8K capable too. Of course there are other things they can do like improve the storage and memory, but that will come at a significant price increase and I'm not sure Sony will go down the 'Premium' console route.

@Ralizah I thought it looked cool when it was revealed, but the more Sony showed over the summer, the more I thought it maybe wasn’t for me. A friend bought it at launch and really didn’t like it, mostly because of the repetition at the core of the gameplay. The idea of having to repeat everything over and over is offputting, as it’s something that drives me up the wall in other games. One thing I really enjoyed about Dishonored is the freedom in dealing with targets, whereas in Deathloop it seems there is only one way. Other Arkane games have quite quickly dropped to £10, so perhaps when it’s really cheap and my backlog has withered to nothing I might get it.

@mookysam What are your feelings on Nier Replicant? I picked it up in a sale for a nice price a few weeks ago and just don’t know where I’m going to fit it in my game schedule. I have it somewhere in the middle of my backlog, so probably 10-12 games down the road. But every now and then I feel like pulling it out earlier. I adored Nier Automata. It’s just that Replicant hasn’t had much buzz from the community and sounds like it’s not nierly (…😂) as well received.

@Th3solution It's not as batsh*t bonkers as Automata, that's for sure! Automata is the better, more polished product, but I really quite liked Replicant. The story is the main draw and has some surprisingly emotional moments, packing a heavy punch in places. The main quest is really quite short, but to see everything requires three (four if you don't make a save before the final dungeon in route C) partial playthroughs. Thankfully runs two and three resume from the original midway point, so it isn't quite as much as it sounds. While they aren't as varied as Nier Automata's multiple routes, each new run inserts additional scenes that reveal more of the story, gradually shifting the players perception. Things the players assumes in route A are suddenly not all that clear cut even by the end of route B.

In terms of negatives, many of the side quests are mediocre, to the point where the game even jokes about it, but these can for the most part be comfortably ignored. That said, some later side quests do add to the richness of the world, with valuable snippets of dialogue here and there. Enemies are rather visually and mechanically repetitive, which is a shame, as although the combat system has been radically improved, the enemies don't really match it. There's also a lot of to-and-froing across the map. Thankfully Nier moves as fast as the wind, and there's a rather cute boar mount available in some areas. Later in the game a fast-travel-of sorts is unlocked, too.

I didn't play the original Nier myself, but based on what I've seen and read, the combat system has been drastically overhauled to be closer to an Automata-ish hack-and-slash, and the localisation has been spruced up. The latter point is quite important in terms of what it means for the two supporting characters and representation in gaming, as I believe it was wrong for the original release to cut it out. The original Nier was an ugly mess, so the visual improvements are very welcome, and while the original score was highly acclaimed, it too has been remastered to sound quite a bit punchier. In all it's a nice package and I'd recommend fans of Automata check it out.

@mookysam Wow, thanks a bunch for the excellent extended impressions! Perfect.

I think I’ll like the game, but I do remember that, like you say, reviews remarked that the side quests are pretty poor. I had heard the enemy variance was subpar as well. When the game was announced, I was initially excited about Replicant, but then lost a little of the anticipation when the reviews came out as middling. So I kinda forgot about the game for a while — and then when there was some recent talk about Nier Automata on the forums it woke up my interest in the franchise and I kept my eyes open for a sale and grabbed it. I was also encouraged by Dustin on Sacred Symbols citing it as probably his personal GOTY, although he was very careful not to recommend it universally to everyone. Your impressions seem to gel with that idea that it’s a flawed game but one that fans of Automata should really enjoy.