Topic: PS4pro | OT

Anyone else really disappointed by this? I don't get the push for 4K personally (I do get it from a business perspective) but seriously. We can barely have adequate anti-aliasing, 1080p and 60 fps and we're already pushed to the next best thing? I'd rather have the double GPU-power of the PS4pro go towards a steady 1080p/60fps/8x Antialiasing across the board than having it exhaust itself to render 4K imagery that at the end of the day doesn't make much difference in a moving picture like a game looked at from a distance. 4K - in my opinion - only has benefits in a professional work environment. Graphic designers, photographers, layouters and publishers benefit from less strain on the eyes and more detail looking at their still pictures but I think there is no disCERNYable difference for most of us between a nice Full HD game with good lightning and anti aliasing and a 4K game. HDR is a matter of taste I guess. I was not blown away by artificially lightening up the dark/subtle areas in an image.

If I see (and I fear thats the way forward) that the original hardware will be left in the dust and games run less optimized, I will eventually upgrade but proudly run it on my 1080p screen on purpose to rather benefit from smoother framerates and nicer effects than have a huge image floating in front of me always thinking: "For 5% more eyecandy I sacrifice 20% framerate".

Thoughts?

EDIT: Also... not including a 4K bluray player when pushing for 4K seems really dumb to me. I fear this will be the first mayor kick in the head Sony gives itself since the unveil of the PS4. Yes you can stream. Theoretically. I couldn't imagine streaming (anyways scarce) 4K content on my internet connection (which is the best available here) at all. Generally the PS4pro to me seems like something tacked together quickly to respond to a market that's not really there yet. It lacks the genius that was behind the original hardware.

@MadAussieBloke: You have too much money and too much time. Im jealous!

@Scollurio: Have you ever played a game running at 4k on a 4k screen?

And to be fair, as has been mentioned, the system will improve graphical fidelity and frame rates for games running on standard HD sets, so it pretty much ticks all the boxes while not alienating the standard PS4 user base. Of course, no 4K Bluray drive is a bit of a kicker for some people, I can see why they may have decided not to include one to help keep costs down though (how many people regularly use their PS4 for Blurays, after all? I use it once a month or so).

It's all good

@kyleforrester87: On PC, yes. Still not impressed but on PC it's different because you sit closer. Sitting on my couch looking at 1080p with antialiasing is not much different than doing so watching on a 4K screen.

@Scollurio: Cool I added to my post above.

As someone with a 4k HDR Screen, I have pre-ordered the PS4 Pro. My screen size is 55" and I also have SkyQ which offers 4k Content (movies, Documentaries/Box Sets and EPL Football currently). I can see the improvement to Picture Quality although its not the step-up that HD was to SD content. Its most notable in mid-range objects as the extra pixels help keep the image sharper - things like fur/hair for example still retains the detail. HDR though is a game changer as far as I am concerned - the extra colour range combined with the greater contrast ratio is amazing.

Whilst I know the 'pro' isn't 'that' powerful to offer native 4k HDR 60fps gaming consistently but it will offer 1080p as a minimum standard. A game like BF1 (for example) is going to be 900/60 (although the beta averages around 40-50fps) but the Pro will be at least 1080p. Rise of the Tomb Raider has 3 'selectable' options - a 1080/30 mode with all the visual effects (lighting/shadows etc) turned up, a 1080p unlocked frame rate version and a 4k/30 version too. Its going to look and/or play better than the base version.

I watched the 4k version of the Horizon: Zero Dawn (as well as the 'highlights' reel of games on PS4 Pro) and just 'WOW'. the last (E3) trailer looked a bit 'dumbed down' from the original reveal but this looked significantly better - can't wait to see it in HDR too. Days Gone in HDR should be stunning - the detail in the dark areas, contrasting with the 'brights' (the bit with the molotov in the new trailer) will be astonishing.

I am disappointed about the lack of a 4k HDR Bluray - but then I haven't watched a bluray for years. I can't remember the last time I did something other than 'game' on a console. Given the choice of having a console with upgraded media options (like the XB1s) or a console with an upgraded gaming experience, I would pick the gaming experience every time. although I do admit I would have preferred a combination of both.

I can tell when a game isn't at 1080p - especially if I have a 1080p version (like the XB1 version of some PS4 games). Maybe because these images are 'upscaled' to 4k anyway so the more native information, the much better the image looks. Given the choice of 4k/30 (with low console style visual effects) or 1080/60 with much higher visual effects, I would pick 1080/60 every time - so I hope that developers take that into consideration when offering 'Pro' enhancements. It looked like CoD:IW had certainly upped the enhancements - lighting, article effects etc...

Nothing I've seen in the PS4pro makes me want to spend any more cash. I and Im sure most ppl only have 1080p TV's. There is no real reason imho to make any jump. I also think Sony is going to alienate a lot of it's userbase. A lot of console users use consoles because they don't want to know or try to keep up with all the technical jargon that surrounds PC gaming and this type of release to the average user just confuses and destroys confidence. I'm fairly technical savvy and I'm sick to the back teeth of a console makier flooding me with tech talk. I want a console that i can buy and forget about hardware for a few years and concentrate on gaming. not buy then upgrade and keep doing that everytime one of sony's shareholders says they ain't making enough profits.

@BAMozzy I can certainly see why you would benefit from a ps4pro as your existing hardware is crying out for your console to catch up but most ppl ain't long gone kitting out every room in their house with full 1080p tv's they ain't ready for a new console and certainly won't benefit from one really. Add quietness into the PS4pro mix and I'd buy one in a shot. The ps4 sounds like a jet fighter ffs.

PS Access video about PS4 Pro....

@TomKongPhooey: Well that depends. A lot of games these days on PS4 seem to be releasing at 900/60 or 1080/30 - often with the visual settings turned down just to run. Those with 1080p TV's can still benefit as the games will be 1080p minimum and could also have much higher visual settings so that you will see a 'significant' difference in some games. VR can and will benefit too as the games can have better textures and frame rates.

Its not like you 'have' to have a 4k HDR TV to see any benefit at all. It could be that you buy a 4k HDR TV in a year or so as the price inevitably drops. Its a relatively new technology as far as TV's are concerned and the minimum specification was only classified this year. The current range will no doubt drop in price as next years models replace these so you could find a suitable TV for a 'reasonable' price. Hisense and Vizio (not 'big name brands') could offer a cheaper way in as well.

Obviously those of us with 4k HDR TV's may well benefit the most. I bought my Last gen consoles though before I had a HD TV and was amazed at the difference that made to the games I had it was like getting a 'remaster' version and the experience could be similar for those who upgrade their TV at a later date. the biggest and most exciting aspect though from my perspective is HDR gaming. having watched HDR, this is more impressive than the increased resolution. As a gamer though I know that the increased power can be used to improve the overall game experience - not just visually but playability too. I do think visuals are important - not the most important maybe - but still important at least to me. I spent hours just looking at the world Naughty Dog created for Uncharted 4 instead of just playing the game - looking around the Pirate village, standing on the cliff and looking out at the views etc. It was breath taking on PS4 so can't wait to see what HDR brings...

The new console is fine and its nice it being more powerful. But if power or improved graphics were my main motivation for gaming then I would be gaming on PC where I know I can get a machine built that will make the games sing with joy. I am not a person who has been bothered by low framerates or the other points that come up in articles when reviewing a game. I accept that as a console owner I will sometimes be making comprimises.

To upgrade to the Pro I would now need to sell my existing PS4 which probably has a value of £150ish then spend another £200 to upgrade. I am already spending £350 on PSVR with a few games thats raised upto £450. So now the total is hitting £650. Cold it be worth it sure but I would need to be convinced.

I do have concerns about the Pro. Will games now be looking to be the best they can be on Pro but then makes sacrifices for performance on the PS4? Every game does have to work on the PS4 but it does not mean it has to run well.

How well will PSVR games perform on the PS4? Will they perform in a such a way that pushes gamers to get a Pro? I know they will all work on the PS4 but if it clearly works a lot better on the Pro then gamers will feel short changed.

I presume now when I see a game which is released after November time that the games companies will now be showing Pro version rather than amateur. So it will look its best I hope this is clearly stated otherwise people will think hey this game does not look like what they showed at XXX event

@get2sammyb How will games be now reviewed when there are the Pro version and amateur version? I know there will not be two reviews for a game but if one has performance issues and the pro version works well how would it be scored?

I honesty think this whole generationless console thing both MS and Sony are going with is just going to even more blur the lines between console and PC gaming. I don't upgrade my phone every six months and I am sure as heck not going to upgrade my video game console every year.

IMO technology is getting out of hand it seems like the moment they introduce the new iPhone for example they are bringing out the next one six months later. It's quite sickening really.

These new systems the PS4 pro, Scorpio etc. are just made for people who have to gloat about having the newest shinyest whistle and who should probably be spending their money on better things. If this is the way consoles are going well, looks like I am done with current gen consoles. It's sad really never thought I'd say that.

@tasuki The whole mobile phone thing is really crazy. I got a new phone 3 years ago but before that I waited 7 years to upgrade and that was only because the battery was so terrible it only lasted a day. Now with my new phone I can not even change the battery. All this consumerism is just creating huge masses of techo junk that sometimes gets recyled but most of the time just ends up in landfill which just creates more problems for future generations. There is no good reason to change your phone every year. I think phones are the worst example of this I do not change my fridge, washing machine or TV I just wait till they break then consider whether its worth repairing or throwing out.

You mentioned Iphones what Apple have done is create hype and devoted followers who see owning a Apple product as a status symbol and are willing to pay more. I admire what they have done and the value of the company is truly amazing. They do innovate and push other companies to do better things but equally they create this loop like all mobile companies where you are constantly on a contract and upgrading every year then extending the contract with every phone.

I am not done with consoles yet but I will look at PC gaming when PS5 comes out and see if thats a better route. Its more expesnive but then you can choose what you want and how you want it to peform.

As of now, I don't really see the value of the Pro for me. Graphics just don't mean that much to me, and whatever upgrade there is only seems marginal. As such, I don't think even the tech heavy crowd are impressed with it. Of course, the thing isn't out yet, so these are just my early impressions.

@dryrain: I agree with the phones 100%. I just got the Samsung Galaxy Note 4 maybe 2 years ago within the first month of them coming out, (my last phone was over 5 years old and nothing would work on it anymore) and now I see advertisements for a Note 7 and I am thinking dang when did 5, and 6 come out. It's crazy too cause it seems with newer updates your phone gets the less optimal your current phone runs and you are almost forced to buy a new one.

I like you use a product until it no longer works I don't need to be hip or cool having these latest gadgets but those people who do are just sheep mindless sheep. Which as I said is sad.

I would seriously consider a Pro if there was a compelling trade in scheme from a retailer even though I'm years away from owning a 4K tv.

@Tasuki: I still have my XB360 and PS3 set-up. I will be buying the Pro (for the front room) and undecided whether to put my PS4 in the bedroom or box it up and 'sell' it. I still have the boxes for my last gen consoles too as well as all my games. I certainly don't consider myself a 'sheep' - I don'y even own a mobile so don't do all that 'upgrading' malarky although when I did, I had a 12 month contract with the option to upgrade to start another 12 month contract - but that was years ago.

Gaming is more than a Hobby for me and yes I could go down the PC route but I would rather game on consoles but I would rather game at native 4k HDR/60fps as that is the type of TV I own. Its NOT my fault that Sony and MS didn't release more powerful consoles at the start of the generation, capable of delivering the level of gaming I want. I understand why, to make the console I wanted then would have cost me a LOT more money and would impact on their sales of course. Relatively speaking, the PS4 was cheap - the PS3 cost a lot more when it was released and that's not taking inflation into account.

The last 3 years though has seen technology jump quite significantly in a number of areas. 4k HDR, VR and the new GPU's are 'cheap' yet powerful. Last years $1000 Titan X (for example), can now be beaten by a $400 GPU.

As games get more technologically advanced - partly because Developers want to 'beat' what they did before and partly because all the new technology gives them greater resources, games 'drop' in quality in other areas because of the limitations of hardware. It may not be so 'obvious' on 1080p screens but its more significant on higher res screens. These screens are selling more than 1080p too. Another area that's likely to suffer over the next few years is VR. With the processing and high frame rates that are necessary for VR, how can developers push experiences beyond the current 'tech demo' style without having to sacrifice on visual quality or frame rates?

What I feel that Sony has done, is try to protect and prolong the PS4 generation. Developers maybe less inclined to push for 1080p on the PS4 and sacrifice frame rate consistency if the Pro can show off the games. As games 'drop' in the 'visual' standard on base PS4, people would normally question the life span of this console but by releasing a upgraded PS4, I feel that Sony are saying the PS4 will certainly be the primary console for at least the next couple of years. I certainly don't feel the same with MS and its upcoming Scorpio - which we know will have its own 'unique' software.

Talking of Xbox, just because MS released its 'Slim', it was not enough of an upgrade to warrant purchase - especially as the Scorpio is just a year away. The ONLY reason I ended up with a PS3 'Slim' was because my Day 1 PS3 60GB ended up with YLOD - incidentally I still have that too - its NOT in a landfill somewhere!

Not EVERYONE buys the 'latest' hardware mindlessly. As I stated console gaming is more than just a hobby and probably occupies more time than any other activity. I don't 'holiday' and would rather spend that money on something that benefits me daily rather than a week or two a year. I have NO doubt that if Sony were to release a PS5 in 2 years, my PS4 Pro won't be obsolete - just like my PS3 is now. My Son has my N64, I still have my Gameboy colour and original Xbox (in storage), mu other son had the PS1 and PS2 and I had to get rid of my boxes of older games (going back to my Vic 20) when I moved into a smaller house 3-4years ago.

Spending money on the 'latest' console because I have the latest TV that will benefit that latest console, my gaming experience and happiness is not being a 'mindless' sheep. It is not like buying the latest mobile at all because the PS4 will offer me (at least) something significantly improved over what the PS4 (base) can offer - its not like the previous (or up coming) slim with very minor improvements but the 'core' experience is the same - like mobiles with a slightly improved camera but still makes calls exactly the same. The Pro adds increased resolution and HDR with smoother and/or improved frame rates and whilst the games themselves may not be 'different' they will look and maybe feel different!

@BAMozzy: I get what your saying but I just don't see the point. Yeah the PS4 Neo has graphic upgrades and other such but why not just either wait or release it now as the PS5 for example. I don't understand why generations are a bad thing. Yeah you would have to buy new software for example but that's never been a problem in the past going from say SNES to N64. You just keep your old system like it seems you did if you want to play that generation games and get the current system if you want newer why is that hard to understand?

@Tasuki: To be fair, people are free to do what they want without judgement (within reason). Especially with something like games. As a hobby, if you want to spend your free cash on the latest hardware, go for it! I got a new motorbike on an absolute whim a couple of weeks ago, it was a big chunk of my savings, and now I'm stuck with an old bike I don't need that I have to sell - once sold all in the switch over will set me back £500 or £600. Is that money wasted? Not really, I got a new bike that I love!

If you wanna PS4 Pro, 4k telly and a new phone every 2 weeks, fill ya boots! If not, stick with what you got, i mean if you're genuinely happy with your current PS4 it's no skin off your nose is it. I think a lot of it is "fear of missing out"

So to summarize what I've read:

• devs will avoid better frame rates on the pro on all the games you really want it because of fairness in multi-player.
• with a 1080p TV you won't get the benefit of hdr nor 4k
• at 1080p there is only marginal ways to improve graphics

I really want to want the pro, and the price is good, but....

@Mega-Gazz: correct me if I'm wrong but I believe certain standard HD TVs will benefit from HDR (how do we know which?!) and there should be benefits to frame rates for single player games, more fancy particle effects yada yada. Depending what you will get for a PS4 trade in it is probably worth the upgrade without a 4K set I reckon!