Topic: Metaphor: ReFantazio Thread

Apparently they accidentally re-added the test folder back in so it patches the entire game. Not sure it's been corrected since.

@Pizzamorg Can I ask what difficulty you´re playing on? I´m also about 25h in (just reached the port city) and I thought the difficulty/design was mostly ok so far.

I think the problem you´re running into is that switching archetypes is far too convenient and readily available. If an archetype wasn´t just 2000 MAG to unlock, but 200k instead, or if there was a cost attached to swapping after unlock, you´d probably have a lot more engagement in planning out your team and making sure each party member covers an area that the others don´t, since you couldn´t afford to just swap it out so easily.
That and the "restart battle" button, which allows you to sus out any weakness an enemy might have at 0 cost kind of do take away from the system as a whole.

Personally, I think it´s fine, but I tend not to engage in more complex party set ups and instead just try to find one that manages to clear everything.

My personal biggest gripe so far was the sudden difficulty spike with that optional dungeon you go to to retrieve the ring for the blue haired man. The "boss" and several of the enemy types there made me mald so hard, I had to switch to easy for it because I was going to uninstall otherwise. I probably died like 50 times before I decided it wasn´t worth my time (I could have left and come back again later, but there´s no way I´m wasting another entire day on just 1 enemy)

Alright, I've clocked in about 15 hours now and am really enjoying it. In my most recent play session, I finally finished the Grand Cathedral dungeon including the final surprise boss. Definitely took a while to get through that one! It seemed like it'd never end. I did have to go back and farm some MP once before I encountered Zorba or else I'd have been done with. I'm not someone who enjoys grinding in the slightest, but the overworld combat made it way more tolerable. In general, I don't think I'm going to be doing that for every dungeon, but it just seemed so unsatisfying to get all the way to the top of the Cathedral just to back out then and rest for some MP. At that point I had to just bite the bullet and farm a little rather than risk being slightly annoyed. It'll make me more wary of my MP usage for sure, which I didn't realise until this dungeon was such a scarce commodity.

I actually played and finished the Belega dungeon before tackling this one, so it helped to be a bit more high level than the game might've expected for the dungeon. I was actually surprised to find out that going to the Belega dungeon is more intended to be done after the Grand Cathedral. Sure, the characters are all talking about how maybe this is a harder fight and we should save it... but at the same time they're saying we should do some practice elsewhere before going into the Catedral so like, what do you want from me? It was the only combat area available to me pre-Cathedral! Very mixed messaging there, but luckily I was able to handle the Belega dungeon with relative ease. Just the Guptauros kicked my butt a little, but by the third try I'd figured out what works and was able to put him down. Now, after finishing the Cathedral, everyone in my party is level 18 and I'll be heading out into the Triad Desert next. I wonder if I'll be overleveled for it at this point. I tried to go to the desert before heading into the Cathedral, but the game wouldn't let me, so I'd assume the enemies are higher level there than what I've faced before.

I do like the Archetype system, but I'm having trouble coming to grips with what's the best way to get the most out of it. On one hand I want to fully level archetypes, but then the game is also constantly throwing new ones at me and recommending certain ones over others. Then combined with the inheriting skills and requirements for Archetype upgrades... it's a lot to think about. Maybe a bit too much personally, since I do enjoy when combat systems are more streamlined. I do like that it clearly gives you much freedom in how to put together your party however, but I'm not sure how much I'll be using that as I tend to just stick to what I know in games. I mean, I finished the entire Mass Effect trilogy on my first playthrough sticking exclusively to a pistol simply because that's what the game gave me first and I never switched to anything else. I'm that type of player.

I'm enjoying the story a lot so far, and it's been nice post-Cathedral to finally have a bit more of those one on one sessions with your party members which Persona was so well known for. I was kind of surprised how underbaked they felt, though? They're all such short sequences which then result in an instant improvement of your bond. I thought I'd have to work a bit harder for it. Even getting Strohl to bond level 3 with him going to see the noble to help his people I thought was going to be a much bigger thing and not just a short cutscene. Not sure how I feel about these segments not being voice either, since they're supposed to be such an integral part of the formula and forming an investment in these characters. I imagined they'd feel less like an afterthought, especially since Atlus is widely known for this being a core gameplay element. I was excited to see Strohl saying he wants to return to his hometown, only to realise that it was all talk and I don't actually have that option on my map yet. I guess it'll show up again on some following day.

@Pizzamorg I completely understand your frustration with the Archetype system in that sense! Like I said in this post, I'm not someone who's particularly experimental with combat styles and tend to go for the brute-forcing route if possible in games. I think so far it hasn't affected my experience greatly, since the first few areas are rather straight-forward when it comes to weaknesses and all that, but since you're further in the game I can imagine this might become a sticking point for me as well. I'll have to report back at some point and let you know how it's been developing for me!

This in reply to @Yagami more directly, but also addresses what I mean too @Tjuz

I dropped it down to easy, but I am not sure how much it really helps. My issue is not in moment to moment combat, in fact there where your builds and so on are tested, I feel really strong. My issue is with the gimmicky boss fights that add some kind of heavy restriction on you, and as far as I can tell the difficulty choice doesn't alter these. I don't find puzzles fun when there is only one solution. The Archetype system should allow for player freedom and expression, but the boss fights are designed in a way to promote the opposite. I'm not suggesting people can't like this, but this really isn't how I wanted this to work, and it goes against my inbuilt memory for how classes work in other games, cause it sorta works in the opposite way a class system like this works in other games.

@Pizzamorg Sorry if you already mentioned this, but have you played a regular SMT (like Nocturne) before? It´s basically exactly like Metaphor, but just a lot more restrictive.
The basic idea of figuring out what the enemy is weak to and responding to that is the same

I have yah, but from memory none of them had bosses you needed to beat in a set number of turns, or before they do certain actions or other things like that - maybe optional ones, but not ones on the main path. They were always just regular battles that tested your team comp and tactics.

@Pizzamorg I´m no expert either tbh, so I couldn´t say for sure. Do you have any good examples for what you mean in Metaphor? I´m at the start of the port city now so you could spoiler up to there

I actually don't think I can @Yagami as I believe that is where they started throwing those at me back to back, so I might be giving you spoilers unintentionally. A lot of it is kinda muddled timelinewise where it all took place. They all started hitting for me around the 25 hour mark. Have you fought the worm yet? That might be the only one that took place before that city, where you had to kill all the enemies in the same turn or they'd infinitely respawn.