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Topic: PlayStation 5 --OT--

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CaptD

@colonelkilgore Definitely, some terrible price gouging at the expense of the brands reputation. You have N Dog floundering, scrapping years of work (apparently) all because of another studio saying "yeah it doesn't gouge enough". Seriously though I thought Druckmann only listened to himself.
Plus the Last of Us 1 cash grab (imo) and even if you ignore that aspect, the fact that it is £50 on steam (where Valhe take a massive cut) and £70 on PSN should tell you all you need to know.
I can see Herman going next, or certainly being put in a different role. All this GaaS stuff will be a big failure, I reckon Fairgame$ will never see the light of day.

All my opinion and I could be wrong but when you have to say to yourself "thank God for Insomniac" then you know not all is as it should be.

CaptD

colonelkilgore

@CaptD yeah I highly doubt PlayStation will manage to find a ‘Fortnite’ during this GaaS push… and after a few years will hopefully return their focus to single-player blockbuster fare.

currently residing in PS3 Purgatory

Th3solution

I do think the timing of Ryan’s retirement is a little odd. The overreactive fanbase (me included) tend to read too much into these things, but this seems a pivotal time for PlayStation with a pending ABK acquisition he’s been fighting, a new direction for the company with GaaS, and a series of unpopular decisions (PS+ price increase, underwhelming Showcase, closing down first party studios, etc, etc). So the skeptic in me wonders if he’s stepping down due to internal pressure from the Sony board or something.

On the other hand, PlayStation has never felt stronger. PS5 are selling at breakneck speeds, profitability sounds like it’s very high, and the competition is showing signs of desperation whilst trying to keep up. Perhaps now is as good a time as any to ride off into the sunset.

I suspect it’s a combination of both — I think everyone wants to retire or leave on their own terms. No one wants to be fired or asked to resign. If he leaves now before the ABK merger and the deluge of failing live service games occur, then he’ll be going out on top. He’s surely reading the tea leaves and knows that if he waits a year or two, it’s a crapshoot as to what the state of the brand will be.

Which, to be clear, I think the PlayStation brand will be fine in a year or two. Are most of the live service games going to fail? Yes, probably. Is Xbox going to gobble up a large chunk of market share when Acti-Bliz joins the party? Yes, almost certainly. But I think PlayStation will still thrive. I don’t agree with a lot of Ryan’s decisions, but I think he still leaves the company with a bright enough future that he can be happy with it.

Also, he’s not unilaterally making all this company’s strategic decisions. There’s a team involved, so we might not notice much change.

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

CaptD

@Th3solution Those are my exact thoughts, leave at the peak before the deluge of inevitable failures occur.

I had to laugh last night as I watching the PSVR without Parole podcast and one of the hosts said "how old is Jim, perhaps it is time to retire anyway" and one of the mods commented "he is 76".
I'm sitting here thinking I'm sure he is mid 50s or something, he certainly doesn't look 70 odd, anyway the hosts ran with it for quite a long time before various comments about him being 56 popped up.

CaptD

YoureTooSlowBro

@Th3solution Your comment is the first I've seen that's actually thought out. Everyone I've seen is just bashing on Jim for no reason. People just think he's the dictator of Playstation and what he says goes. I know people are upset about the PS Plus price increases, but all subscriptions are increasing right now.. It's called inflation.

I'm probably one of the few people who are looking forward to the live service games. In my opinion they are several years behind. Whether people like it or not live service is the future.. The profit margins of these single player narrative games are getting smaller and smaller. For Playstation to continue to thrive they need at least one of these live service games to be a hit or there could be serious changes at the company.

And sorry everyone, but he didn't close down any studios that mattered. If anyone actually cared about Japan Studio their games would have sold more.

YoureTooSlowBro

AdamNovice

@Th3solution You make some great points, though I would argue that the timing for Jim leaving might be the perfect time when you think we're nearing halfway through the PS5 cycle. Leaving not long into the pandemic wouldn't be ideal plus the whole expansion and acquisition of their 1st party studios.
Whereas now things are settled a lot more, most of their studios are set on their projects now, PSVR2 is out and the revamp of PS Plus.
That would leave his successor to carry on the work without needing to make big course corrections (barring some disaster) they then can oversee the launch of PS5 Pro to get experience of launching new hardware when the time comes for PS6.

AdamNovice

X:

Th3solution

@CaptD @YoureTooSlowBro @AdamNovice @Kidfried Appreciate all your insight as well. I think there’s indeed a point to be made that this mid console generation window is a good time to shift leadership. And it’s true that his role as a scapegoat will probably benefit the company, and the next PS boss can come in and be the redemptive hero.

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”

LtSarge

YoureTooSlowBro wrote:

Everyone I've seen is just bashing on Jim for no reason.

Well that's because there was so much bad news about PlayStation during the years 2020-2021 after he took the reins that people don't really have the time to write down all of it, lol. Here's a selection:

Raising the price of games to €80:

https://www.vg247.com/ps5-game-prices-70-usd-70-gbp-80-euro

Charging for PS5 upgrades while Microsoft would offer Series X upgrades for free: https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2021/07/reaction_messy_ghost_...

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/09/sony_confirms_spider-...

Shutting down Studio Japan and changing the focus of PlayStation from offering varied and creative experiences to narrative-driven titles and live service games across its studios:

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2021/02/sony_officially_confi...

https://www.eurogamer.net/playstation-plans-to-launch-more-th...

Abandoning their Japanese audience and becoming a more Western-focused company while also getting rid of high-profile Japanese employees:

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/12/bloodborne_demons_sou...

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2021/02/two_more_sony_japan_s...

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/11/ps5_sold_out_in_japan...

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/11/sony_stresses_japan_i...

Stating that Sony believes in generations (meaning they would focus on PS5-only titles) but still announcing cross-gen games for both PS4 and PS5 when they said they wouldn't after Microsoft announced they would release cross-gen games:

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/05/talking_point_do_you_...

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/09/sony_believes_in_gene...

Not caring about their legacy games and almost shutting down the PS3 as well as Vita stores while not giving much of a heads-up:

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2021/06/actually_playstation_...

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2021/04/sony_backtracks_ps3_p...

Being the only company that charges developers for cross-play while Microsoft and Nintendo didn't:

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2021/05/crossplay_controversy...

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2021/06/sony_we_support_and_e...

Keeping a short leash on their studios:

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2021/04/days_gone_2_not_given...

Of course, much has changed since then and you can argue against some of these points. But the point is that shortly after Jim Ryan took over the reins, there was always bad news coming from Sony for a long period. Always. It's just not possible to see Jim Ryan in a positive light when there was so much negative news coming from Sony while he was in charge.

In short, Jim Ryan has been nothing but a disaster for PlayStation. People keep stating that he ensured the success of the PS5. I don't agree with that when you consider that it was Shawn Layden who oversaw the majority of the project at the time while Jim Ryan took over at the tail-end of the project.

Speaking of Shawn Layden, this is something I came across while reading about him a while ago:

"Sony announced on September 30, 2019 that Layden was stepping down from CEO of SIE Worldwide Studios. Journalists at the time believed this may have been due to a result of an internal power struggle with SIE President Jim Ryan over the further restructuring and globalization of SIE. However, in September 2021, Layden stated he retired due to exhaustion, believing the launch of the PlayStation 5 was a "good time to put the pin in my legacy."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawn_Layden

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if Jim Ryan was the cause of Shawn Layden leaving the company. Another bigwig also left the company at the time: Andrew House. I also recall Shuhei Yoshida being "demoted". These were all key people who contributed a lot to PlayStation over the years. You can tell how much PlayStation has changed since their departure/demotion and with Jim Ryan taking over.

So to hear that he's leaving the company is absolutely fantastic news! I love my PS5 but I haven't been as fond of PlayStation as a brand as I used to back during the PS4 days due to Jim Ryan's influence. Hopefully that will change now with his coming replacement.

[Edited by LtSarge]

LtSarge

BAMozzy

@LtSarge I agree. As someone who has been a Playstation gamer since the first, even with the PS3 launch debacle, 3rd Party Ports and the PSN outage during that era, I never felt as disillusioned with Sony as I do now.

As you point out, the PS5 was well into development when Ryan took over and no doubt, so were the majority of 'new' 1st party games - like Spider-Man, H:FW, GT7 and even GoW:R were probably all greenlit and started before Jim Ryan took over. The charging of 'upgrades' and price increase specific to PS5 versions is just ridiculous - but then they couldn't 'sell' ports/remasters of Uncharted, Last of Us etc to bulk out their 'own' first party content.

The decisions and comments from Jim have really left me feeling like Sony is not a brand I want to be associated with, that I am nothing but a Revenue Cow to be milked. I know they must have games in development that I may want to play, but right now, once SM2 releases, the only Game I know of that I 'may' want to play is Wolverine - but as we haven't really seen that yet, I don't know if it will appeal, certainly not enough to justify spending £70 when I could wait a year or so and buy in a sale or even play on PC for a lot less.

Each to their own of course, but I was seriously considering my future on Playstation and felt like Sony were actively pushing me away under Jim. The grass isn't always greener on the other side, but the news of Jim's departure does give me 'hope' that Sony can win back my trust and belief in their future.

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

BAMozzy

@Kidfried I doubt that - I bet both were in 'development' before Jim Ryan took over - especially GT7. We expected GoW:R in 2021 as they stated when it was 'first' revealed and GT7 was no doubt in to development as well - both built for PS4 and 'enhanced' for PS5. Both Studios were rumoured to be working on these games when Jim Ryan took over...

If not, what were they working on for that time before Jim Ryan took over?

[Edited by BAMozzy]

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

LtSarge

@BAMozzy Hear hear!

As much as I love PlayStation's high-budget games, the drawback is that we have to wait years for them to come out. This is not a problem for me as I have plenty of other games to play in the meantime. But as we've seen recently, most people are fed up with waiting. That's sadly how it's going to be with Sony and even the gaming industry as a whole from here on out. At least when it comes to most Western developers. Japanese ones like Ryu Ga Gotoku and Falcom keep pumping out titles like crazy.

I still miss the PS3 days when Sony delivered more variety to their portfolio of games. I love ambitious experiences like God of War and The Last of Us, but sometimes I just want to relax with some LittleBigPlanet, Sly Cooper and Killzone. And honestly, wouldn't that be the best strategy for them? Release these "smaller" experiences in between all the "larger" ones in order to avoid droughts.

But yeah, I'm definitely more hopeful now for the future of PlayStation as a brand.

@Kidfried And I'm inclined to agree with their suggestion. It feels so unnatural how fast things have been changing for Sony the past couple of years. The Sony we knew during the PS4 era is absolutely not the same as today's. On top of that, Shawn and Shuhei were affected around the same time, with Andrew leaving the company two years prior. I can understand Andrew's departure, but Shuhei left his position roughly one month after Shawn's departure and was replaced by Hermen Hulst. That can't be a coincidence. I think it's very likely something happened behind the scenes.

[Edited by LtSarge]

LtSarge

BAMozzy

@Kidfried No probs.

We will likely never know for sure as so much internal stuff is kept 'secret' and even if/when things do leak out, things can very easily be misinterpreted and/or taken out of context to suit whatever argument you want to make. It may not be 'Jim Ryan' himself who decided to commit to GaaS for example and it maybe others that were pushing this direction. Someone above him telling him to find a way to make 'more' money from Gamers for example in his tenure.

As someone else said, Jim takes the 'hits' etc and blame only for the successor to come in and be the 'hero' - Jim could become the Don Mattrick of Sony LOL

All I can say is I started off feeling excited for the future of Playstation 5 in the run up to launch but over the past few years, that has been eroded and now not even sure if I want to remain part of the Playstation Nation. Its not because the Hardware, the 3rd Party games or some of the First Party releases, but numerous things have felt like they have chipped away at my trust and even my expectations - ND - Perhaps the most Consistent Game Developer - making (or not) Factions, but Bungie and their 'terrible' track record in Destiny 2 - especially around MTX's and their eververse store - is the 'benchmark'? That doesn't fill me with Confidence...

First Party games aren't having to pay Sony a License Fee to release on their Platform, aren't losing 30% of Digital Purchases to the Retailer etc. Sony charge £10 for a skin, they get £10. Sony sell a game for £70 in their digital store, they get £70 in revenue. A third Party game costing £70 on Sony's store loses about 30% of that to Sony just for selling the game to you - let alone whatever 'licensing' fees they had to pay as well.

I'm sure Sony will continue to be Successful but with Jim at the Helm and the direction Sony seemed to be going under his tenure, it was not looking like I wanted to be a part of that. Yes they may have 'more' games in development that may appeal to give me something to look forward to, but if its just the odd game or two a year or so, then it may make more sense to wait for them to come to PC and not keep paying for PS+ every month. That's just how Sony are making me feel right now and that's all come under Jims Tenure.

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

BAMozzy

@LtSarge The PS3 era was superb - Uncharted 1-3 and Last of Us, some with MP modes built in as well, a couple of Infamous, Killzone and Motorstorm games too as well as Resistance, R&C etc. I know games are taking longer so Studios can't produce games at the same rate, but I also don't feel like games have 'significantly' improved.

The Hardware may allow for 'better' visual quality/performance, improve loading/streaming etc to reduce some 'design' elements (like Elevator loading sequences), but the actual Game Play loop, the Story the character and character development etc, some PS3 era games are still 'great' today. Uncharted 2 is often regarded as the best - I prefer it to 4 myself. That era gave us BioShock, Dead Space, Assassins Creed etc new IP's that can still hold up today - maybe not every aspect or every game in those IP's, but AC2 is still regarded as the best in the Franchise by many and people didn't think Dead Space needed remaking either.

Nowadays, it feels like most Publishers want to use their IP's and that loyal fanbase to those to turn them into GaaS. AC is full of 'service' elements these days - grind Currency to buy the odd 'Premium' item, but the 'set' will cost you real money, some daily/weekly set of repetitive missions to grind 'premium' currency with 'events' to try to make people come back to see what 'new' Premium stuff has been added in the hope you'll buy. It kind of feels like Sony are going that route too...

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

LtSarge

@BAMozzy That is actually something I've been thinking about a lot recently and I might as well bring it up here. Like you said, games haven't changed much from before and that's especially the case with Sony's first-party titles. I played through God of War: Ragnarok and I didn't like it as much as the first one. It just felt like more of the same but without the "wow"-factor. The battle against Baldur in the first game was absolutely spectacular. I can't really say the same thing about the first battle against Thor in Ragnarok because it felt very similar to the Baldur fight.

But that's technically how it is with all games today. As some tend to say: "Everything today is just a remix". You cannot create a new IP today without it being compared to numerous other franchises. So you need to do things in order to make that game stand out. Have an interesting story, epic boss fights and so on. But even those aspects can feel similar.

I guess your enjoyment of a game ultimately depends on if you're tired of that formula or not.

LtSarge

BAMozzy

@LtSarge Whilst I will agree that sometimes its difficult to recapture that first time of playing 'something', I still think that there was more diversity so even if there were similar games, there was always something 'fresh' as well. Just going on Sony's First Party content, you had more variety. Killzone, Infamous, Uncharted, Motorstorm, R&C, Resistance etc let alone their Japanese games too.

Some of that seems to be an industry wide issue too with third party Publishers not really investing too much in a diverse portfolio and moving towards GaaS or iterative sequel after sequel. Look at where ABK are today compared to the PS3 era - all those Studios pushed into CoD because they couldn't miss their Annual Cash Cow's Holiday launch and their other IP's couldn't bring in the same revenue, so make sure CoD releases EVERY year.

As I said, it wasn't just Sony bringing out more Diverse games, this was the era of Dead Space, Assassins Creed, BioShock, Mass Effect etc too. Skyrim, GTA4/5 and Minecraft all released during that era too and whether you like them or not, they are still played today. So even during the PS4 era, when Sony doubled down on 3rd Person Narrative games that all seem 'fairly' similar in many ways, you still had more diversity in 3rd Party games but with many also exploring GaaS as the Generation went on (loot box craze), At least Sony still delivered these Great Single Player games that others seemed to be leaving behind.

Even Single Player games are now selling Cosmetics and have a store front built into them to sell you the Currency you need to get these Cosmetic skins. Have to be 'online' because they want to add events to sell more Cosmetics etc.

This whilst these Publishers are all announcing higher profits - yet games are costing more to make so prices have to up, only to drop quickly soon after if people aren't wlling to buy at that price. If anything, I'm tired of Games releasing that feel 'incomplete/unfinished' etc, yet have a roadmap of Content they are planning to release after, that 'dribbles' out whilst they still manage to put out MTX content on a regular basis whilst the game still isn't fixed/complete. I'm tired of the whole GaaS Formula and 'digital' store fronts being built into games. It seems that is more of a Priority than actually telling compelling stories that aren't so generic and predictable, some more variety in Game-play instead of repeating the 'same' activities to pad out games and/or make grinding a chore so you'll 'buy' shortcuts etc etc...

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

nessisonett

@LtSarge That may be true of AAA games but I think that’s why we all need to expand our horizons. The real new and innovative games are often coming from smaller devs. The challenge is those games being able to find any sort of visibility when AAA marketing is a machine.

Plumbing’s just Lego innit. Water Lego.

Trans rights are human rights.

sanderson72

@Grumblevolcano The weird part is, the sellers don't reduce the price of the base console to match it at least.
£429 for PS5 & EA Sports FC 24 or £479 for a console on its own. Who in their right mind would buy the latter?

sanderson72

LtSarge

@nessisonett You raise a good point! Because AAA games are becoming more expensive, less creative risks are being taken. But that's not the case with smaller developers.

Unfortunately, as some have kindly pointed it out to me, I need to narrow my horizons as I just have too many games to play. That goes for smaller titles as well. So I won't be able to experiment as much as before and have to instead rely on marketing/word-of-mouth for smaller games that are worth playing. Cocoon for example seems to be one of those games so I might give that a go down the line!

LtSarge

BAMozzy

@LtSarge And now Alannah is saying basically the same about the industry...

A pessimist is just an optimist with experience!

Why can't life be like gaming? Why can't I restart from an earlier checkpoint??

Feel free to add me but please send a message so I know where you know me from...

PSN: TaimeDowne

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