Topic: Final fantasy discussion thread

Today is the day I find out if my bid has been successful on my house in Final Fantasy XIV.

@DisastrousFalcon Without playing the new one I can't say, but I'd say that even if it isn't strictly must play, the DLC is actually good. Yuffie is great fun, there's a cool mini-game she can play that I really liked, and it does introduce some characters/ideas that will almost certainly be explored in some way in a future game, but I'm not sure how important they'll be. Basically, it's only a few hours long, and so unless you're super-pressed for time I would say it's worth it.

@DisastrousFalcon I played it fairly recently and found it a fun but brief experience. Playing as Yuffie felt different enough and the combat is ace. When it was over I thought 'Oh is that it?', but there is scope to replay it which I never did.

@DisastrousFalcon I’ll chime in to give another endorsement of the Yuffie DLC. Like you I usually skip DLC, but I was glad I went back to play Intermission. Yuffie might be my favorite character to play, combat-wise.

She’s in the Rebirth trailers and a member of the party going forward, so the DLC introduction of her character is fairly significant, narratively speaking. The story in this remake version is a bit jumbled, so hard to say exactly how critical Yuffie’s intro is, but it’s a fun time nonetheless.

@DisastrousFalcon Since you are going to be playing Rebirth, I would definitely recommend playing Yuffie's DLC. I didn't like her DLC at first, but after taking a break from it and coming back to it, I ended up enjoying it. Probably because her style of combat is so much different from the way combat was in Remake, but it is worth the few hours in order to get to know the character for the next game.

Iconic

I’m about 5 hours into FFXVI now, having taken a second stab at it after failing to really get into it when I tried to play at launch. I have been enjoying it more this time around. I’m now at the part where they introduce the infamous mundane side quests. I don’t mind them, but I know if there’s too many of these trite little fetch quests then it could get annoying. I believe I read on here that the side quests get much better toward the end. Honestly I think it’s fine to have really simple ones in the first areas in order to ease players into learning the characters and setting.

I’m not quite sold on the game’s narrative. This surprises me, since the story has been the facet of the game which has been consistently lauded. There are aspects of the plot and characters which I really like, but so far it feels like the plot execution resides in this strange no-man’s-land between Japanese storytelling and Western storytelling. There’s no doubt this is the most Western styled FF game to date, but it feels a bit like it doesn’t know what it wants to be, story-wise. There’s the Game of Thrones / dark-fantasy backdrop with knights and goblins and blights and political subterfuge and copious graphic bloodshed, all of which feels very Western. But then the characters occasionally have a little Japanese quirk and the voice acting is a little too melodramatic for the setting, much like Japanese games tend to do.

And I don’t want this to sound derogatory, it’s just an observation. I love many JRPGs and Eastern styled media so it’s not necessarily a knock against the game but I think I’m just going to have to get used to this new narrative style. Kojima does this too — for as Western as he tries to be, there’s a Japanese je ne sais quoi that confirms his games’ origin. It’s difficult to describe, but a simple example is the melodramatic death cries in MGS — “Snake? Snake! Snaaaaake!!” Lines of dialogue can be heavy-handed and hyperbolic in Japanese drama, and so I’m seeing little bits of that here in FF16. The story also has some strange plot armor going on. Like, what’s the deal with Torgal? He just happens to be hanging out with Cid when Clive joins him? And that was just an awkwardly unemotional reuniting — His family dog, the one his deceased brother loved, pops up after all these years and he’s just kinda like, “yeah, I know this dog.” Despite the inelegant convenience of dropping Torgal back into his life, at least give us an emotional gut punch. Just a missed opportunity, that all.
If it were just a traditional JRPG with a usual goofy storyline (FF7 Remake, etc) then I wouldn’t think much of it. But the game feels like it’s trying to be an edgy, Naughty Dog / Rockstar styled gritty storytelling, and yet it just hasn’t quite landed at that level for me. (Although in fairness, few games do). But I’m very early game, so I hope things come along better over time.

I do like most of the voice acting, but a few of the voices don’t fit the characters and their character models. For example, I love the actual voice for Cid, but it’s way too gruff and old of a voice for his character model, and it’s just coming across to me as so off-putting. And then the large guy, Goetz I think his name is, has this little voice that sounds much more small. I understand the intent to show ironic contrast in his size with his personality since he’s a simple fellow, but it’s just a minor thing that has pulled me out of the otherwise well executed cut scenes.

And oh yeah… the cutscenes. 😅 I hope they calm down with the cutscenes. I mean, I like a good cinematic story driven game with plenty of exposition, but I feel like it’s been at least 50% of my time so far with the game. Hopefully it strikes a better balance as I get into the meat of the game.

Otherwise, the combat is nice, although coming from playing a couple Souls styled games lately, it’s a little button-mashy so far. But I can see there’s some depth coming up and I look forward to getting access to more Eikon abilities. I think I’ll end up liking the combat since it will be a nice change of pace from the Souls-likes.

Anyways, sorry for the long and wordy post. Tagging @Jimmer-jammer who was interested to hear my early thoughts.

@Th3solution Thanks for the tag! Early side quests are indeed quite basic and truthfully, never really rise above this description over the course of the game. Mechanically speaking, you’re never going to be doing anything other than going from point A to point B, collecting, talking to and/or fighting something. There’s no mini game to participate in or any meaningful variation to the basic formula.

Looking instead at what they do offer, side quests greatly flesh out the world and do eventually culminate in instances of incredibly satisfying narrative payoff, including building off of the underwhelming initial reunion between Clive and Torgal you observed. It’s hard to say too much at this stage without getting too spoilery but I came to adore the many beautiful touches that are employed to reflect the effects of world events back at the Hideaway and across the whole of Valisthea. Of course, mileage will vary significantly in this respect.

Some side quests do offer game changing rewards, so if you can’t be bothered to invest in the world beyond what’s necessary, at least these quests are clearly indicated so you can ignore the chaff.

The East/West observation is interesting though I can’t speak too much into it. Game of Thrones is clearly a base inspiration but I don’t think the intent was emulation. It’s simply used to ground the existential narrative within a recognizable and effective framework. For my money, this is still Final Fantasy through and through, more so as the game goes on.

As for the cutscenes, I wish I could say that they let up but, being first and foremost a narrative heavy experience, they do not. With that said, the game does eventually open up and settles into a proper gameplay loop of sorts, so a better overall balance is arguably reached.

The game is such a slow burn mechanically, I’m glad to hear the combat is already clicking for you. It’s an excellent system that truly gets better as it goes. The breadth of its accessibility is an amazing accomplishment though I do wish that its most well balanced and fulfilling incarnation, Final Fantasy mode, wasn’t locked behind New Game+.

My thoughts and opinions swayed as well as I played through the early hours. I’m really curious to see how your opinion on all of this develops as the game continues. There are some incredible moments ahead of you on your journey!

Small rant —
I wish I could manually control the sprint mechanic in FF16. It’s nice that when in an open area Clive will sprint after a couple seconds of pushing uninterrupted on the left stick, but I would have liked to be able to control it and also be able to sprint in smaller areas too.

I think they took this auto-sprint mechanic from Nier Automata, but it seemed to work better in that game, if I recall correctly. It’s been a couple years but it seems like in Nier you could still click the L3 to run faster, but then 2B would hit another faster super-sprint gear if you kept pushing on the analog stick.

@Th3solution This bothers me too and I struggle to think of a legitimate reason as to why it was implemented though it was mostly a non issue for me once I acquired a mount. Still, I also question why they would take control away from the player in such a bizarre fashion. How’s the journey anyway? Still with it?

@Jimmer-jammer I was able to spend more time with FF16 this weekend. I’m 17 hours along, according to the PS5’s timekeeper, and level 23 in-game. I’ve got access now to Ifrit abilites and limit breaks.

I’m definitely settled into more of a groove now with the game. The combat is still a smidge chaotic and repetitive but I’m enjoying it. I’ve died two times over the last few sessions. Once I underestimated a random wyvern, and once was with the really prolonged boss battle with Clive’s shadow self. I appreciate that death has very minimal penalty and when I died in the last phase of the battle, respawning into that last phase with a full allotment of potions made me grateful I didn’t have to repeat the earlier portions of the encounter, but it did steal some of the dopamine hit away that Souls-like boss battles create.

The story is starting to click better as well. I have real interest in the goings on and have forged a connection to Clive and some of the characters. I still think the acting is a bit unbalanced. At its best, the voice work is outstanding, but then at times it falls flat. I’m trying to separate the voice acting from the character models and it’s made me feel that the animation often influences our perception of how good the voice acting is, which is unfair to the actors and actresses. I just played The Quarry, which had more advanced facial animation which adds visual gesticulation to the mix and it makes the voice work come alive a bit better. FF16 has excellent visuals for what it is, but the classic Square-Enix facial animations are still there with their comparative wooden quality. Especially Jill. For some reason her character facial model seems less animated that Clive, Cid, and even many of the NPCs. Just a minor thing that has stood out and it’s made me less attached to her as a character.

I also have even enjoyed reading the active time lore bits and visiting with the tome keeper guy at the Hideaway. There’s some nice lore forming and a lot of it is hidden away in these extra documents that explain the world better.

As far as character build, I’m wondering if I should start re-specing my attributes with different abilities and magic. I’ve basically relied on the same 4 spells for the last 10 hours and haven’t seen a reason to switch. But I feel like I should experiment more. I wish there was more options than just two abilities on two Eikons.

Finished up the "Episode INTERmission" expansion of FFVII Remake over the weekend.

It was a lot shorter than I'd imagined (I think the Xenoblade expansions & Miles Morales have spoiled me), but I still really ended up enjoying it. As epic as FFXVI was (and I still do like it a lot more than others seem to), playing this did affirm to me that I do overall prefer the tone & worlds of entries like X & VII Remake.

Anyhow, Yuffie was a hoot & I'm now quite looking forward to Rebirth.

@Th3solution Thanks for the tag! Sounds like it’s coming along! I don’t want to say too much as you’re still relatively early but I’m glad to hear you’ve been enjoying the lore. I nerded out pretty darn hard on it. I’m curious to see what you make of it all eventually.

I began The Quarry but need to go back and finish it. I started a co-op run but my partner in crime and I fell off of it. Seemed great though. While it doesn’t boast the motion captured accuracy of The Quarry, the facial animation in FF does have a certain charm to it. Which is my way of saying that it runs the spectrum from hilariously awful to just right. Landed more on just right where it counted for me.

As for the builds, experimenting is definitely where the fun is. There is a surprising amount of depth to the combat once things get going, which I still think takes too long but is still totally worth it once it gets there. I know this can vary wildly from player to player, but it was about hour 30 where things settled into something truly enjoyable for me.

Moved the discussion over here seeing as it's increasingly become more and more FF related and cluttering up the purchase thread.

Been ages since I've seen you on here @mookysam! Things going well?

Having Kefka's laugh as your ringtone? I don't recall hearing that laugh in the short time I played FF VI but I'm not very surprised to hear you got a lot of eyes on you when it did go off!

I've meant to go back to FFVI as that was well over 10 years ago when I tried it @Ralizah. Same thing with FFV actually too as I dropped that after about an hour as well.

And yup don't care much for FFVII. I obviously get the impact it has made on gaming and the industry as a whole but... Nope. Not for me.

Didn't like or care for the characters (Especially Aerith who I'm kinda supposed to care for I guess given the most well known spoiler ever). Don't like the plot, battle system wasn't that exciting, didn't think much of the music (beyond Aerith's theme and One Winged Angel), the overworld models are incredibly ugly...

Honestly it was a very forgettable experience. The slap fight between Tifa and lady Shinra executive is honestly the one plot point I vividly remember.

I wouldn't say it was bad though or that I hate it.

At least now I wouldn't. Maybe when I played it 8 or so years ago and nobody would shut up about it being the best JRPG ever (and I still kinda roll my eyes at that statement now and again). There's more praise for FF VI, IX and X though now so it does feel a bit more balanced out.

... Leagues better then FFVIII mind you. That one is objectively bad (Aside from the music which is amazing). Poorly written and awfully designed mess of a game. The card game in it sucks too

Course my first FF was X-2 and I genuinely love that game so... What do I know?

@HallowMoonshadow Still need to play VIII and X-2. The latter looks goofy as hell in a good way. Just never got around to it for some reason.

In terms of unpopular FF opinions... I didn't care for X and detest IX, despite those being two of the most beloved entries online atm. FFX kinda foreshadowed the more extreme problems with FFXIII, and IX is just an... ugly, boring, poorly-paced game.

I genuinely hope you like X-2 @Ralizah whenever you get round to it. I ADORE the opening and the ridiculously Cheesey/Goofy/Campy tone the entire game has.

Frankly I think X-2 has the best combat system and the job/class system in Dresspheres with a bit of magical girl-esque flair? Delightful!

I dropped FF IX when I played it for the first time last year at around the 3rd disc? It's the best of the PS1 trio for me but I do agree with you in that I found the pacing a bit off from what I remember. I did like it... But I don't want to go back to it anytime soon either?

@HallowMoonshadow Yeah, I also think the fact that I don't care that it's probably a terrible follow up to FFX will help a lot, since I'll be able to accept it on its own terms.

I do love me games with a light mahou shoujo vibe to them. I think you're selling me on this!

RE FFIX: The combat is SO slow. New elements of the combat system were weird in a bad way. And the overworld is ugly and misty, which ruins the views. Granted, I stopped after Disc 1, but I felt like I was walking around the JRPG equivalent of Silent Hill.

Also, the character designs... 🤢

Music is incredibly non-descript, too.

Will never understand the love for that game.

I mean you're talking to a woman who (at the time) played X-2 first with no knowledge of X sooo... I'd say it can hold up on it's own Ral

I know some people find Yuna's characterisation off compared to how she was X but... I dunno I think it works considering where she is by the end of that game.

I think there's some great emotional scenes too and the theme of the game as a whole fits too.

It's definitely goofy a lot of the time though and you can see why it's been branded as FF X Charlie's Angels for the longest time.

Every time you switch Dresspheres in battle you get a 20 secondish transformation sequence (you can make it shorter). Each one has a unique intro and outro and there's over... 30 dresspheres? You'll have your fill of magical girl sequences!

I wonder if Kyle's ears are burning?

Combat is a little slow even on the PS4 Remaster/Port (without activating the speed up). Other Trance activating automatically I don't recall anything else being bad about the system though?

I do quite like the character designs myself... I don't recall ANY of the music though now that you mention it...

@HallowMoonshadow I may or may not have violently fangirled in Persona 5 Royal when (very minor spoiler, I guess) a character goes full Sailor Moon in their transformation sequence; quite literally, there's sparkles, twirling, clothes magically appearing piece-by-piece. It was brilliant.

If Kyle were the violent sort, he would have already ran me through for my dismissal of Fez. Perhaps, like most people not currently incarcerated, he merely secretly fantasizes about it.

Urgh can’t even. The music is amazing, it’s up there with the best FF has to offer. Literally tune after tune. The MIST continent has MIST on it. Other areas do not, and it comes and goes. There is a very strong reason for it to exist within the overall story. Combat… slightly slow but crank up the speed in the options to max and it’s hardly a deal breaker.

I mean. Jesus.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha6iWPqrJeE

Banger.