Topic: Games Being "More Of The Same"

So I've been seeing a lot of talk today about games being "more of the same", whether it's on Push Square with Elden Ring or over at Pure Xbox on their review of Forza Horizon 5, and I thought it'd be interesting to discuss this topic. I've been hearing this sentiment so much lately in general and it's got me thinking that most games that come out today are basically more of the same because we are now at a point in the gaming industry where we've reached the peak of video games. Beyond this it's hard to innovate without completely changing a game's typical formula or introducing gimmicks like VR. And even if you manage to switch things up like with God of War (2018) and Breath of the Wild and it succeeds, then people will just say that those games play like other franchises.

The point is that this "issue" will become more and more common among gamers as time goes on and the more games we play. There's rarely anything that excites me these days because I've played all kinds of games and most experiences will feel largely the same as previous ones. Like how many people here have complained about Ubisoft games being too similar? When Sony showed off more gameplay of the new Horizon and God of War games, I thought they looked like more of the same as their prequels. I've even seen people compare Halo Infinite to Far Cry/Just Cause after the recently shown gameplay footage for that game.

And I mean, it's the same thing with movies, TV shows, music, all forms of media really. How many seasoned movie/TV show watchers here haven't developed an ability to predict plot twists at this point because you've watched so much media?

There's really no solution to this other than taking a break from a genre and coming back to it later when you're in the right mood or when it feels fresh again. Because the fact of the matter is that video games are becoming "more of the same" and we're going to hear this more often going forward. It's not like in the 90s or even the early 00s when we were getting introduced to so many brand new experiences at the same time: Metroidvanias, survival horror games, 3D platformers, first-person shooters, sandbox games and so on. This just doesn't happen anymore nowadays. I mean yeah, games have never been better than they are now but we just don't see many brand new experiences like the aforementioned ones anymore. There will be some new games that come along that will give you a fresh experience, but fundamentally they are still similar to other games. It's not necessarily a bad thing that games are too similar, but it will require being in the right mood for the best possible experience.

@LtSarge If it’s a numbered sequel, sure then go for it. Miles Morales would count as the good side of ‘more of the same’. If it’s a new series from the same developers, I quite like to see genuine changes and innovations. That’s why the Ubisoft formula gets so stale, when games play exactly the same when there’s the potential for meaningful differences. There has to be progress over the years, even the Lego games have progressed the last generation.

It's just going to depend on how much the formula and aesthetics evolve from game-to-game. I had this experience recently when I watched the GoW Ragnarok trailer, and thought it looked nearly identical to the 2018 game. Whereas something like Horizon Forbidden West looks like a massive step up over the original game it's a sequel to.

A series will ideally maintain a sense of identity across multiple entries while also changing up enough to make each one feel fresh.

Even before BotW, for example, Zelda games often featured wildly different art-styles and gameplay gimmicks that made each entry feel like its own thing.

@nessisonett Have they? I played Lego DC Super-Villains with my nephew recently, and, honestly, it was just as mindless, clunky, and infuriating as the ones I used to play on the 360 a decade or more ago.

@Ralizah Oh yeah, they haven’t improved for the better imo but they’ve been attempting to make the combat have depth and combos, and they have open worlds now. I liked the monotony and simplicity of the earlier games.

I think that we just live in an era where cynicism and negativity are at the forefront of the vast majority of peoples minds. My personal take is that the internet and subsequently social media has bred this dark social group-think… and people are just gonna hate, regardless of creative choices.

A prime example (albeit in film rather than games) is Marvel. The ‘cool-kids’ have been moaning since halfway through Phase 2 that ‘all the Marvel films are the same’ and ‘they really need to change up the formula’ etc. Then Marvel release Eternals, which by all accounts is a big shift in how Marvel films normally feel and play out… and what happens… even more hate than ever!

All creatives can do is follow their own instincts, as any attempt to ‘chase the wants’ of this current public sphere will end up in anger regardless, so the least you can do is do your own thing.

I’ve been looking forward to Elden Ring and God of War: Ragnarok for ages… the main reason for this is that I love Dark Souls and God of War 2018, so I’d be a bit miffed if either tried to reinvent the wheel tbh.

@nessisonett I wouldn't exactly use the word "progress" but instead "change". Take Assassin's Creed for example, Origins changed the traditional formula of the series and that was a big change but a lot of people think that the series has lost its identity as a result. Franchises change over time but they will still be either similar to previous games or similar to other franchises. For example, Breath of the Wild is very similar to a game like Skyrim, even though it's a fresh take on the Zelda formula.

@nessisonett @Ralizah The inherent problem with the gaming industry is that most of the games you can imagine have already been done before. Look at it like this, from 1990 to 2000, i.e. during the span of ten years, we've seen so many different brand new experiences being introduced to the gaming market (as I mentioned in my first post). However, from 2010-2020, i.e. during the exact amount of time span, we haven't seen many brand new gaming experiences at all. If you view the gaming market from a holistic perspective, then we're currently in the most stagnant period of the industry so far. There's just not much "revolutionary" (for the lack of a better word) happening right now.

In other words, on a micro level, I agree that that there are can be enough changes that make each game stand out more. On a macro level though, each game is still the same as other ones. There's just not much else to invent at this point.

Although I do have to say that Kojima's idea with integrating cloud technology in video games might actually be a huge turning point for the industry. The concept is basically like the one we had in Death Stranding, i.e. things will change in the game while you're not playing it. So let's say one day you're at a village and you decide to call it a quits. The next day, you find out that the village has been destroyed by an earthquake while you were asleep. The day after that, you'll find that the village has been rebuilt by the survivors, again while you were asleep. That's honestly something that I think will truly be revolutionary for the gaming industry, even though a lot of people aren't really on board with the idea of cloud-based video games.

@colonelkilgore "I’ve been looking forward to Elden Ring and God of War: Ragnarok for ages… the main reason for this is that I love Dark Souls and God of War 2018, so I’d be a bit miffed if either tried to reinvent the wheel tbh."

Then the question becomes, does a franchise need to reinvent the wheel? Take Forza Horizon 5 as an example, the Pure Xbox review said it was "more of the same" but does an open world racing game really need to reinvent the wheel? It's a racing game, what more can you change besides the obvious stuff like setting, different cars and so on. Maybe games like Elden Ring and God of War don't need to change the formula either because what more can you change without ruining the core gameplay.

Something else that I just thought of is the Yakuza series. It's had so many entries with beat 'em up gameplay, but with the recent Like a Dragon, it's now a turn-based RPG. It completely changed its core gameplay and some people like it, while others hate it. At the end of the day, you just can't win as a developer. Either you make more of the same games, which people will grow tired of, or you switch things up and end up upsetting your fanbase.

People grow tired of e.g. Ubisoft and Forza games because they come out frequently. But then we have other kinds of games that come out every once in a while that still is more of the same but because we haven't had a new entry in a long time, the game will feel fresh. So is the solution then to just release games less frequently in order to fool your fanbase into thinking that you're playing a fresh new game? I mean, what if Sony started releasing God of War games once every year. Are three God of War games released during the span of three years just as good as three GoW games released during the span of nine years? There shouldn't be any difference, but some people might not like the former option due to its higher level of frequency.

@LtSarge That review might say it was more of the same but Forza Horizon 5 is also the best-reviewed new release of the year tied with Psychonauts 2, a game that clearly pushes boundaries. The cream rises to the top regardless of whether it’s truly unique or a new entry in a long-running series.

I would say games currently available are very diverse. Particularly if you’re prepared play less well reviewed games and don’t take unintuitive controls as a negative.

Look for originality from a company whose games you haven’t played before rather than expecting it from the next entry in a long running series.

@LtSarge I do agree about gaming reaching a point where it is harder than ever to innovate… but my feeling is more along the lines that sequels should aim for refining the formula rather than reinventing it. New IP and reboots can aim for that kind of fundamental shift, sequels are made for people who liked the previous entry.

I’ve been gaming since the Spectrum and sequels for the most part did much the same then. When I moved from 8-bit home computers to the Sega Megadrive the same. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 and Street of Rage 2 were two of the best sequels from that time… and all they did was take the originals formula and refine it.

Sure there are sequels that completely shake up a series’ formula like Castlevania: Symphony of the Night for instance (Tomb Raider 2013, Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild and God of War 2018 are other good examples) but I would class them more as reboots rather than sequels… and you can’t reboot with every single instalment.

As to your question about whether Sony should pump out a God of War every year like Assassins Creed… well even that franchise seems to be heading to a ‘once every 2 year’ schedule right now but also, as much as I appreciate all of the Ubisoft cookie-cutter franchises, they are nowhere near the quality of God of War 2018. Once you get to a… let’s call it ‘Metacritic 80-something’ level, I’d imagine that every little improvement above that level is painstakingly time-intensive. Games of that level can not be rushed out to a time-table imho, it’s like the difference between a franchise-restaurant and The Fat Duck.

@LtSarge Gaming has definitely hit a plateau of sorts. The big big games like Fortnite, GTA V, Cod are all massively online games and extremely one dimensional. However they do have evolving gameplay which wasn't a thing 10 years ago.

Outside of this, VR (which you mentioned) is a game changer. Unfortunately it's very nature is inconvenient. We don't play games stood up or looking everywhere, we want to play games sat in our shorts eating Doritos. But it definitely is a game changer as a number of experiences are brand new. My favourite is Statik.

In fact thinking about it there is a lot of new stuff. The really plateau isn't the lack of new experiences. Rather the limiting nature of gaming itself. Moving from A to B, finding object A to open object B, hitting enemy A with ability B, Levelling up (yawn) we could go on.

I use it to unwind and pop a trophy or two. Maybe a game or sixty of Rocket League. But gaming isn't a substitute to eating at a nice restaurant or having a game of darts with your friends. It's a nice accompaniment. I've recently been hitting up PGA 2K21, it's mechanically great and feels fresh to me.

Maybe you need to step away from third person action adventures, there have been far to many 'GOTY' third person action adventures. Give me Cities skylines or Sackboy big adventure any day (until I'm bored of those genres)

@themcnoisy You’re right in that the games winning awards are all much of a muchness. It’s like the Oscars, give Nicole Kidman a prosthetic nose and you’ll win one. Third person action adventure games are the prosthetic nose.

@LtSarge I think yearly annual releases from certain franchises contributes to this problem. Games like Call of duty being a prime culprit. COD became in a sense, a victim of its own success and ultimately felt the need to maintain it popular relevancy was to release a new game consecutively since 2009.
Yes, during its golden age, COD was riding an unstoppable wave of hype. add in campaigns, youtube communities, sponsorship deals, the battle between treyarch and infinity ward clearly broke record sales and gave gamers clear incentives to keep buying the next COD on a macro level as there was a feeling of always moving forward disguised by the yearly releases.
Many would say back then COD have unwavering momentum but looking back, one must ask what slowed down this momentum? You have fatigue. No matter how great something is, the more you have of it, the more its greatness becomes normalized, the more it gets boring and in gaming terms annual releases are the peak of content overload.
When you have annual releases and a lack genuine innovation and sincere creative direction, the equation will lead to consumer fatigue as much as the momentum can be positive it can also be negative as we have just how stale the last couple of COD releases have been.
Ultimately what it all comes down to is lack of innovation ad greed. Game developers now spend more resources on creating monetary transactions for gamers rather than creating better gameplay.

I think annual releases are not creatively sustainable at the best of times especially now during this era of significant advancement in technology, they just scream laziness.
Don't get me started on how FIFA contributes to the "more of the same" feeling in the gaming industry right now. The pressure these developers have to meet yearly deadlines and match sale records is really hampering the 'the new game feeling' experience for gamers

Honestly, I can’t agree with this idea. I feel that I play a large variety of games and am not burnt out on any particular genre. There’s a lot to choose from on the market, more than ever I’d say.

@Jimmer-jammer I can agree with you there. Prior to the second half of last gen, I’d never even had a backlog, now that I have (& it’s gargantuan) I’m able to play different genre after different genre and considering how many games I’ve played this year, I can’t actually believe how fresh I still feel.

@colonelkilgore yeah, just looking roughly at the last 15 games I’ve played, with no particular effort to be diversified, I’ve played everything from a first person horror game to side scrolling indies to a couch co-op platformer, fighting games and a straight up puzzle game. It’s a great time to be a gamer!
Edit: I originally listed the 15 games here but upon reflection felt that was a bit weird 🤣

I agree with a lot of what’s been said here, but just to chime in some thoughts…

I think both sides of the coin are present, namely — a large amount of lazy iteration and a decent measure of fresh innovation.

We live in an unprecedented time, especially as it relates to entertainment. We are literally drowning in entertainment options, and gaming is no different.
We had a short discussion of a similar idea several months ago on the music thread about whether current music trends trump the classics and the golden oldies. I think the discussion there would apply to gaming, to movies, to television, and even to live entertainment (amusement parks, travel options, live game experiences like escape rooms, and stuff like trampoline parks, extreme sports venues, etc, etc.). It’s truly an embarrassment of riches compared to even 25 years ago, much less 50 years ago.

I see it with social media as well. The options to stay connected to people and interact with people from across the globe (like we’re currently doing on Push Square this very moment) is mind-boggling if you think about it. …Yet I think people are more lonely feeling than ever. Literally alone in a crowd of people. That statement is an oxymoron, but it’s absolutely true.

The gaming equivalent is that we have a library of literally thousands of games, yet nothing looks interesting or fun to play. Despite the sheer and seemingly endless supply of options, we end up bored and sometimes frustrated. And please don’t read this as me indicting society or sitting on my pedestal passing some kind of patronizing judgment on the ungrateful masses — I am absolutely including myself in this phenomenon. I think to a degree it’s just a human psychological actuality. I’ve mentioned in other threads before how I’ll look at my Netflix and other streaming watch lists and sigh with a level of mental fatigue and then just turn the TV off without watching anything. Sometimes gaming is the same with a survey of so many titles, they all end up looking the same.

Yet when you look at the periphery, and find the edge, you see the amazing creativity that it still out there. It’s just drowning in a sea of mediocrity, redundancy, and unoriginal convention.

And to be honest, like some others on here have said, there is a time and a place for both of these sub-types of games — Sometimes we want the classic and familiar feeling of our old favorite games. We need that gaming ‘comfort food’ from time to time. And there are times when we feel adventurous and bored and we need something to shake things up. At moments like those I break out an indie game or a genre that I don’t usually play and things start to feel fresh again.

And as a last thought (before my wall of text grows more dull than it already is) I do think there is some value in mixing genres when I set up my gaming schedule. I think most of us do it, but there’s is a temptation to jump straight into a sequel or similar title after having an enjoyable experience with a game. Sometimes this works out, but often it creates a feeling of ‘sameness’ if the games are too similar and too long. I try to resist the temptation to follow up a great game with another of its ilk. So like @Jimmer-jammer mentioned, among my last ten or fifteen games are a couple jrpgs, an indie platformer, a walking sim, a rhythm game, a couple third person horror, an action survival, a rogue-like, and a visual novel.

@Keith_Zissou “Is the embarrassment of riches making culture more disposable regardless of quality?” Absolutely an interesting philosophical discussion. I think the answer is yes, but I’m not sure. The discourse when we were discussing this related to music was whether any of the current artists would be held in the same high esteem many years hence as those current “classic” musicians are now. One side of the debate is that the sheer volume and access to the tools of the trade (in music that would be GarageBand apps, etc. and the gaming equivalent would be Dreams and other technologies that make it so much easier to create content) elevates the overall quality of the content, so it should stand the test of time and future generations will esteem some of today’s creators in the same breath as the classics. The other side of it is that question of the sheer volume and constant barrage of options will make it all less likely to see the great pioneering efforts that transcend everyone else. A dilutional effect, so to speak.

@LtSarge great topic - but doesn’t the same apply to music, movies, and everything else?

@Mega-Gazz Yeah, I said that in my first post.