Hi thought it may be interesting to pick this up elsewhere. To sum up
@Col_McCafferty said "Interested in this until I saw the Game Pass info at the end. I'm not buying any third party game that is released day one on GP. Shame as it looks really good."
I replied "Interesting! First time i've seen this stance. Not knocking it, you're entitled to your own view. But it does beg the question. Why?"
We got shut down by admin and @@Col_McCafferty had a few posts removed.
@Olmaz said "@themightyant I can't speak for @Col_McCafferty , and I wouldn't be as harshed as he is, but I am very wary about buying games that are on GamePass day one :
1) they are promoting, or at least part of, a system that I do not condone and that I see as harmful for the industry
2) the fact that they are given to the players as "free" games will have (and already has had in a small manner) a negative impact on the quality and length of said games.
Now, it's nothing against this specific game, just a general wariness on my part."
Buying games that are on Game Pass can definitely feel bad, like paying premium for something you know is available at a much lower price elsewhere but you can't get there right now.
That said, I did buy Hades on PS5 when it launched on Game Pass and the feeling went away very quickly
I'm guessing this might be about A Plague Tale: Requiem?
@colonelkilgore Trek to Yomi - To be fair to admin's were right that we WERE off base, but a bit trigger happy imho. But I feel this is discussion worth having, and seeing different points of view, even if we don't know all the answers yet.
Game Pass is the largest shake up to the industry and there are some genuine concerns what ripples or tidal waves that may cause.
@Voltan hmm, yeah well I’ll still be buying A Plagues Tale: Requiem if that is the case.
My view is, I wouldn’t subscribe to a PlayStation equivalent of GamePass if there was one (Spartacus says what!) so I have no issue buying a game I like the look of if it’s available to GamePass subscribers. I do understand @Col_McCafferty’s position somewhat though. I’m also not a fan of the direction that GamePass (or any other subscription service) is steering the industry… but my viewpoint diverges in regards to developers being able to see the difference in profits from game sales on PlayStation vs one off GamePass payment. I think there is a potential there for more 3rd Party (or 2nd Party) PlayStation exclusives as a result of this as they would still get all the game sales and a one off payment from Sony for exclusivity.
@themightyant ah okay, so my above post discussed A Plagues Tale: Innocence but the content remains the same if we are discussing Trek to Yomi (or any other game). I’ll read the thread when I have a spare 5 minutes 👍
I think it's fair to say none of us are omniscient, we can't see the future, so this is all about concerns and conjecture, we don't know the answers yet. But I still think it's a discussion worth having.
For what it's worth I love Game Pass right now as a CONSUMER but that doesn't mean I don't have potential concerns about where it will lead the industry. A few concerns e.g.
What will it do to smaller (or even larger) devs in the long run? Will it be: if you're not on Game Pass the board is stacked against you and you're more likely to fail?
Will it make more games launch F2P or smaller base game on GP with paid DLC?
What about those collectors that love Physical media who see it as the catalyst speeding up the decline of this side of the industry?
Those are just a few of the valid CONCERNS - not saying they are true - that people have. I'd love to hear different points of view on this. Just keep it nice!
There are two things I'd like to point out. First, all the talk about Game Pass being harmful for the gaming industry is nothing but pure speculation right now as it's still too early to determine the effects the service is having on the industry as a whole. In fact, there have been a lot of developers stating that Game Pass has actually benefitted them a lot. Second, there's also no correlation between Game Pass and low-quality third-party games because of one simple reason: the games are also released on other platforms. If a third-party AAA game came out exclusively for Game Pass and it's been entirely funded by Game Pass money (which isn't that likely), then yeah I can absolutely see that being the case. But as of right now, third-party developers are seeing Game Pass as a bonus. They would've released their games on Xbox regardless, but now they can put it on a subscription service as well. In terms of first-party studios, they are not hindered by stockholders putting pressure on them since they are owned by Microsoft and thus they can take their time making their games, which will lead to high-quality titles.
If anything, you could argue that Sony raising the price of PS5 titles to €80 is pushing people to cheaper options like Game Pass. It wouldn't surprise me at all when the inevitable PlayStation Game Pass comes out that people will be flocking to it instead of buying €80 PS5 games. Basic economics suggest that most people will choose cheaper options. Not to mention that we've seen Sony release first-party games like God of War on PlayStation Now, so what's stopping them from releasing e.g. God of War Ragnarok on PlayStation Game Pass 3-4 years from now?
I've said this before but I've been fully convinced that I'll be using primarily Game Pass in the future for three reasons. It's cheap and offers a lot of value to me, it's convenient and I can play games through the cloud without any lag or having to wait for the games to be downloaded. This is the future whether we like it or not. Technology will improve over time, more people will acquire high-speed internet as time goes on and Microsoft will keep improving their online infrastructure to deliver the best possible experience for their service.
It's a great topic @themightyant as having spent nearly my first year on gamepass, I am very positive about the service. I'm not someone who collects physical media and when I do buy physical games, it's so as to trade them in after I've played them to return some money to buy more games.
I don't see it causing a decline in physical media for those who consider themselves collectors, there are sites like iam8bit doing limited runs of digital games with gaming extras as that particular market is so robust. However, for general consumers it will only drive that shift to digital media.
Sustainability is a big one. I'm not an industry insider, I have no answers. I think xcloud and attracting subscriptions beyond having to buy a series x/s to TV apps and mobile might be crucial to expanding the service.
For smaller devs, there seems to be a lot of positivity about gamepass. Yet its not stopped games like deaths door that are not on gamepass being big hits. No denying that being on gamepass improves how discoverable your game is in an age of such options.
I think the big hit for the industry is potentially for Sony. Why am I going to spend money on a 3rd party game when chances are it will come to me on gamepass or plus if I'm patient enough? As a consumer, it's positive but not sure its sustainable long term. It will be interesting to see what the sony version is like.
Finally, there are definitely implications for sites like these? If I'm not on here to make a purchasing decision and not clicking on a link with your review to a product and a review on purexbox.com boiling down to "its ok/decent, check it out if you have gamepass". Does it exist only for curating purposes? Is a text review the best format of that? The giantbomb.com review of halo infinite is a great piece that covers this better than I ever could.
Sorry for the wall of text, its just a really interesting topic that I've been thinking about a fair bit recently!
I mean I’m playing Football Manager 2022 through it and having loads of fun, instead of buying it on Steam like I normally do. I’ve literally never owned an Xbox but through my laptop I’ve become a genuine customer and I am quite positive about Game Pass PC. I’ve tried games I wouldn’t have gone for otherwise and I’ve played games that I was waiting on. Plus I’ve been able to play Xbox exclusives that I’d never tried like Halo, Forza etc. It just seems a bit ‘cutting your nose off to spite your face’ to not buy games that also come to Game Pass. If you have access to the service then sure, get it on that. If you don’t, then that game will be the same price it would normally be on PlayStation anyway like every other game. It’s a bonus like PS Now. Games get added that I’ve already bought and that’s OK. I buy most games on PS5 these days as it’s more capable than my laptop anyway. There are a lot of factors.
I think GP model will lead to less AAA SP 'one and done' experiences unless they have MP and MTXs. I also think it will lead to a monopoly and/or a drop in quality as there is no way Sony can exactly match what MS can do.
You won't get games of the quality of God of War or TLoU releasing day one on a Sony GP equivalent, not unless the price is close to £20 per month if not more.
It's a matter of principle for me anyway, I'm not sure some of these developers are making big bucks from MS. Rather they're probably getting their money back with a little bit extra on top and then expect gamers on other platforms to provide them with the bulk of the profits. Were basically subsidising gamers on a competing platform, at least that's how I see it.
If this particular title ends up on PS Plus or something similar then I'd be happy to give it a try, damned if I'm going to be buying it though. Same goes for any other third party title that is released day one on Game Pass.
@Col_McCafferty This year we’ve already had Psychonauts 2 which was a GOTY contender, Halo Infinite which gave away its multiplayer element for free anyway, Flight Simulator Xbox Edition which is both fantastic and obviously niche, Forza Horizon 5 which has loads of single player content and zero predatory MTX, even Twelve Minutes that I bloody hated was a single player experience that is ‘one and done’. You’re literally basing this on nothing.
@nessisonett Halo has MTX though and how long is the campaign? Psychology whatever was in development before it's studio was purchased and Forza is a racing game.
Flight Simulator? Come on, I'm talking about AAA single player experiences here, ones with an actual story like God of War.
A gaming future led by MS is a grim one, at least for me and the types of games I like to play. Watch what they do with TES 6, it's not going to be like Skyrim.
@Col_McCafferty I’ll hold you to that about Elder Scrolls VI. They have ESO for that side of things, makes no sense to make VI an online experience too.
Ok I see a lot of comments elsewhere as to GP is the wonderful future and they don’t need to buy games anymore blah .
I can see how it’s appealing if you like Xbox studio games by default but 3rd party are actually rental limited in time and disappear after a while even if you still are subscribed which is CRAP.
Then most gamers want some big games that will never been on GP day one and therefore you have to buy them IN ADDITION to being subscribed for nothing while you play the games you bought.
Like what the heck is the point of GP when a game like Elden Ring drops Hugh? Couple months of pointless subs for sure.
So it’s false to say it’s cheaper for gamers on a budget.
Then there’s the reality of time is more important than money for gaming in that what’s the point of having a lot of games you have no idea about and would need to try while you always have games you actually REALLY want to play but lack of time?
Most of all, owning or sharing a disc and not even need the internet to play it is still the most pro consumers way for gaming. You know what you buy (on PlayStation anyway), you easily share with friends. No sub every month that you don’t even use.
That’s for GP and PSNOW all the same to me btw
What I find annoying is the constant promotion / shill for GP. I know it cool for some but come on. Leave the companies do their marketing, it’s plenty enough with many professionals from the media involved as well.
Now that’s my opinion and sorry if that offends someone. Everyone is different.
Happy gaming everyone !
The crowd, accepting this immediately, assumed the anti-Eurasian posters and banners everywhere were the result of acts of sabotage by agents of Goldstein and ripped them from the walls.
At the end of the day everyone is free to spend their money on whatever they want to (& and not spend it accordingly). There are clearly a lot of positives in regards to GamePass as if there were not there wouldn’t be so many subscribers… but it doesn’t mean that it’s a fit for everyone (me being one of those).
For what it’s worth, I do think GamePass (& Microsoft) will eventually corner the market as they can just outspend the competition… and if the current high quality of offerings (like Halo… , Forza… et al) continues, I’d imagine that I will eventually be ‘corralled’ into subscribing… but it isn’t where I personally want the industry to end up. If I had my way the Sony model of absolute top-tier blockbusters at a premium would continue ad infinitum.
I can see how it’s appealing if you like Xbox studio games by default but 3rd party are actually rental limited in time and disappear after a while even if you still are subscribed which is CRAP.
Then most gamers want some big games that will never been on GP day one and therefore you have to buy them IN ADDITION to being subscribed for nothing while you play the games you bought.
Then there’s the reality of time is more important than money for gaming in that what’s the point of having a lot of games you have no idea about and would need to try while you always have games you actually REALLY want to play but lack of time?
What I find annoying is the constant promotion / shill for GP. I know it cool for some but come on.
First, all the talk about Game Pass being harmful for the gaming industry is nothing but pure speculation right now as it's still too early to determine the effects the service is having on the industry as a whole.
Completely agree, said as much above. It IS pure speculation, but that doesn't mean there aren't some valid concerns. This is about voicing them, having discourse.
In fact, there have been a lot of developers stating that Game Pass has actually benefitted them a lot.
This is true... to a point, it only tells a part of the story. There are several devs who HAVE definitely benefitted being on Game Pass and spoken about it, no doubt.
But what of those that aren't on GP or are rejected. I certainly buy FAR less indie games now due to Game Pass. (Sample size of 1 means nothing, but i'm sure i'm not alone) And that's not just the middling games, even games like Death's Door or The Forgotten City I held off on buying despite the praise as I simply have too much to play, in major part due to Game Pass. The Forgotten City later joined Game Pass and started playing immediately. Would I have ever played The Forgotten City otherwise. maybe, maybe not. I still haven't played Death's Door, just too much coming to GP. That can be a problem actually.
But those are the bigger hits, what about the smaller, less celebrated titles. How do they fit into this model. Will game pass impact them?
Second, there's also no correlation between Game Pass and low-quality third-party games
I generally agree. But I CAN see a model where we start to see more F2P or smaller, perhaps cheaper, base games launch on subscription services with lots of DLC or MTX. We have seen some games do this even for first party with things like Minecraft Dungeons which a pretty short 5 hour adventure with more DLC missions (apparently 8 hours) than in the actual base game.
If anything, you could argue that Sony raising the price of PS5 titles to €80 is pushing people to cheaper options like Game Pass.
Agreed! But that's deviating from the discussion here. This is about people's potential concerns with the Game Sub model/Game Pass. I agree it's connected, and have been recommending Xbox/Game Pass to many, but I'm going to try and keep us on that track as it's easy to become distracted and into the weeds by many other issues even if they are interconnected.
It wouldn't surprise me at all when the inevitable PlayStation Game Pass comes out that people will be flocking to it instead of buying €80 PS5 games.
As an enthusiast I would love that, huge win. But sadly I don't think their GP equivalent is going to have all Day 1 First party games. I'd absolutely love to be proved wrong!!
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