Topic: Nintendo Switch --OT--

@themcnoisy I played Mario for 60-70 hours, not quite done yet but I thought it was a delight from start to end. Never seriously played any Mario game before, although I had 64 and Sunshine but didn't get into them at the time.

Before I played it I did also say that I think Mario gets a bit of a free pass and I think that's true to a point, the game simply isn't as amazing as the meta critic score would suggest (same with Zelda or any other game) but it is still very, very good. It was more apparent to me how good it was off the back of playing Yooka Laylee too lol.

Mario doesn't get a "free pass." A lot of critics found it delightful and rated it highly. The metacritic score reflects that.

I personally thought games like TLOU Remastered and Bloodborne were mediocre at best, even though they scored very highly on Metacritic. Would it really be fair to say critics gave those a "free pass," or would it be more truthful to say that, even though I didn't care for them, a lot of other people did, and their critical scores reflect that?

@themcnoisy What's wrong with the NPCs and the level design?

It seems this individual has different expectations of a video game (more intricate worlds, story and character) and Mario doesn't magch those expectations.

As such, he has labelled it "overrated" instead of "a different experience to what I look for".

@kyleforrester87 Ive got free run of the switch this week and am impressed by the graphics in Mario on the handheld at times. The moves like taking over the characters are good but overused. The 2d bits are cool. What ive noticed though; its just not as enthralling to a 30plus year old. Im having more fun in Odin Sphere, PC2 and playing the free version of pro evo. Its there if I need it but Im pretty done and would rather play sm64 for the same kicks. (Thats not limited to mario, sonic mania actually made me realise I dont particularly like sonic - I just enjoy the nostalgia as Ive mastered the levels on previous games)

@Ralizah @Octane @YummyHappyPills Its great, but way over rated. Fun for kids and man babies alike.

Ive just moved on from this tbh joking aside. I much prefer ARMS, thats a brilliant concept and really captivating. Fresh, new and exciting. I play with the controllers off the controller stand and throw punches and its a ton of fun. The problem with ARMS is your knackered after 5 or 6 fights. But then you talk about it, how you can improve, the bed timing of a block etc.

Mario in comparison is same old same old Mario, with a terrible story, inconsistent world, great controls and throwaway gameplay which leaves zero impression when you switch it off. Ive played sm64 and sunshine to death and after such a hiatus it just makes me want to give them a go instead.

@themcnoisy I believe what you are trying to explain, and also in part failing to understand, is that for some, Super Mario Odyssey is a game they love.

Just like for some, a game like Horizon is for them but not others. Or Persona 5, the list goes on.

With 7.5 billion humans on this Earth, a universal game is impossible. As such, it's often best to accept it's not for you, but will be for someone else, and to stop projecting your view as if it is law. It leaves no impression on you when you switch it off. But that doesn't mean the rest of the world is the same.

It'd be wise to remember that in future, just as I do with Super Mario 64.

@themcnoisy ARMS is OK, but I can't bring myself to pay $60 for what feels like a $20 tech demo. No story, gimmicky side content... meh.

I would argue that the environments in SMO are often fantastically original, and even some of the "traditional" environments are spun in an interesting way (see how the traditional fire world became the more food-themed Luncheon Kingdom). The story is... more nonexistent than anything. But it's a Mario game. Story isn't the point. I'm curious as to what you mean by "throwaway gameplay," though. It's as memorable and unique as any platformer I've ever played.

I have my issues with it, though. There are simply too many moons, to the point where it can often feel like a mindless collect-a-thon that throws moons at you willy-nilly. It's also lacking in challenging. Even the more challenging post-game moons can't really compete with the post-game stuff in Mario games traditionally thought to be easier, like SM3DW and Super Mario Galaxy. And the focus on gimmicky motion gestures to perform certain actions often clashes with the hybrid design of the Switch. Unlike most games on the system, the controls are gimped when playing in handheld mode.

It's a fun game, but not a game-changing stunner like Breath of the Wild, and I'd even argue that it's not my favorite exclusive on the system (top 10 material for sure, but maybe not quite top 5). Overall, it's one of the better 3D Mario games, but I don't feel like it can really compare to Super Mario Galaxy.

With that said, it's still an incredibly polished, creative, and beautiful game, and I can understand why other people would love it more than I did. I don't think people are giving it a free pass or are overhyping it... I just think it was a more joyous experience for them.

@YummyHappyPills "and to stop projecting your view as if it is law"

BLPs you are a hypocrite.

I just throw in comments about what Im playing at the time. At no point do I expect anyone to share that view. I answered your reply with my own opinion which I felt was a fair answer (my opinion) maybe going ott with the man babies comment (i did say I was joking) and thats your response you melon.

Its not that my word is law, it's how I feel to start a discussion about the game. Both @octane and @ralizah know this as we have replied to each others comments for ages. just take a look at their response to my question.

They responded to the question in a fair and good way to generate a discussion.

You didnt. In fact you went on a rant about obvious stuff trying to be clever. I understand thats how you comment but why do you always lecture people or try to get in a fight?

Im not ever going to tell you to 'make sure you remember this' because your word isnt the law either. Thats hypocritical.

@Ralizah I think youve hit the nail on the head. Theres no challenge. My favoured games in sunshine and smb3 had challenge in abundance, so yeah its probably why Im not enjoying it so much.

@themcnoisy The only piece of advice I can tell you is if he annoys you that much use that ignore button. I notice that he likes to stir the pot and fight with others as well, you say the sky is blue he's going to say it's red just to argue. There's just people like that in the world I am afraid.

Now let's get back to the subject at hand.

@Tasuki he doesnt annoy me tbh. I think I mentioned that somewhere else. Hes alright and his comments make sense most of the time. (Thats most of the time). I wont get into a fight with him though as if that was the case I would smash him at ARMS! Thanks for the advice though mate.

@themcnoisy I agree Odyssey has very little challenge. Even the final, final challenge was....well actually quite easy. The hard part was how long it went without a checkpoint.

My problem with Odyssey is actually more fundamental than difficulty, and that's content. There is so much of it that a lot is just handed or stumbled upon, and it feels like a lot of objectives are kind of pointless. There's that "You Got A Moon" bot on Twitter for a reason after all.

The final fight against Bowser and the final challenge level are both pretty easy. I died several times on the latter, but, as @YummyHappyPills pointed out, that's not because it's actually challenging, but because it's easy to slip up and make mistakes when you're playing a long level without checkpoints. It was more tedious than anything.

In contrast, the final boss and challenge level of SM3DL, one of the easiest Mario games ever made, are both significantly more challenging.

@YummyHappyPills @Ralizah I havent got anywhere near the end yet. Im probably going to set my own challenges. Maybe grab 10 moons a session to give me more motivation.

Have either of you noticed the strange background when its rendered lower resolution outside of what can only be described as a bowl in handheld mode? Its happened a few times and looks odd.

@themcnoisy Yes, because on a 6.2inch 720p screen those background objects aren't your focus.

Personally though, it's only because you just pointed out that that is the case.

I find it more odd and noticeable when a match of Rocket League starts in portable mode with pop in for textures and the resolution very notably changing as the netcode begins, and the lack of shadows.

@YummyHappyPills that same issue has plagued RL on PS4 for years. I know its not the right thread but they need to make Rocket League 2 and get rid of those legacy issues. It looks totally rubbish.

@themcnoisy That's Unreal Engine 3 for you. It's not even supported by Epic anymore.

Games that use UE3 are showing the impact. Mighty No. 9 used it and Rocket League uses it.

In fact looping back to Switch here, I'm amazed Rocket League runs at all on the thing given Epic doesn't support UE3, and on that not nor does Switch (Obviously!).

Also funny to note that the issues with Dragon Quest XI on Switch are apparently down to Switch being added in UE4.11 I believe, which is also around the time Epic streamlined and added some features to the engine. This runs into direct conflict with how things are handled in earlier versions of UE4, where the developers are now having to rework things for the newer engine.

Same with Yooka-Laylee and Unity, where the game was made in an older no longer supported version. This meant they had to port up to a newer version.

Typical Nintendo. If its not them being outdated, its them being too ahead of the curve.

Though in actuality it isn't their fault. Developers started with whichever was the most up to date engine at the time (Except UE3, I don't get why anyone would use that even in 2015 as UE4 was a thing...) and the developers of these middleware solutions won't go back and maintain support for an older version of an engine, obviously, so why would they go back to outdated middleware and add in new system support?

Plus apparently once those hurdles are leapt over it's all smooth. It's just these middleware developers change how some features work or deprecate others when they update. It's a pain.

That's what I'm wondering about, because it feels a lot more like a return to 64 and Sunshine than any other 3D Mario game. And that to me is actually a good thing! Sunshine came out in 2002 (I think), that was almost fifteen years ago! Going back to that style was something I wanted for a good while.

Now, I still think it's very different from 64 and Sunshine, for better or worse. It plays a bit too much like a collect-a-thon at a times, there are just too many moons, and many of them don't feel like an achievement like the stars and shine sprites in 64 and Sunshine.

@Octane Its probably the lack of challenge. Its been a cakewalk so far when you need to overtake an npc its fairly obvious why your doing it and why its there to overcome an obstacle. It feels like the new super mario bros on the ds was to the older super marios. A bit too easy. Then the other issues I probably would care less about.