Those still playing Marvel's Avengers and the wider gaming community did not react well to last week's news that developer Crystal Dynamics will be nerfing the game's level progression once the PlayStation 5 version launches on 18th March 2021. The studio has confirmed it will increase the amount of XP needed to increase your rank as you work your way through the back half of the progression system, with many fans thinking this will increase the grind needed to experience end-game content. Instead of reversing the decision based on negative feedback, the team has now doubled down on its commitment to following through with the controversial update.
In an official Reddit post made by the developer, Crystal Dynamics attempts to clarify its decision. The developer starts by setting up the scenario where you level up, or "dinging" as Crystal Dynamics puts it, two to three times per mission. "So what’s the problem? This is great, you might say. The problem we were seeing, and hearing, was that you would immediately get more skill points than you had time to review, apply, and get used to, before embarking on your next mission and gaining your next few levels. Hopefully, you can see the issue here."
The studio goes on to explain that while it absolutely wants players to level up all of their superheroes, it once again doesn't want the process to become overwhelming as you're inundated with skill points primed for allocation.
So we smoothed out the higher-level curves to make it so you were less likely to “ding” more than once or twice per mission at the higher end. There is so much variability in how quick you can gain XP (level types, mission selection, etc…), but the end result of our tuning was meant to add around 3-5 hours to reach the maximum level in total. This means leveling at a steadier place around every 2-4 missions at the upper end. We consider this a way to achieve clearer “ding” thresholds, and more time to engage with and enjoy each skill purchase.
Crystal Dynamics then stated the upcoming patch will actually make progressing through the early levels easier and that taking down more powerful enemies will grant bonus XP. We'd argue that a level progression system feels more overwhelming at the start instead of halfway through, however. Once you've got to grips with the skill tree and what it has to offer, that feeling can dissipate fairly quickly.
RPG progression systems have always worked how they're set to once the PS5 version of Marvel's Avengers rolls around, but Crystal Dynamics' reasoning doesn't add up. We don't know about you, but levelling up always feels more overwhelming at the start (which will now be done even faster) rather than halfway through. What do you think? Share your thoughts in the comments below.
[source reddit.com]
Comments 50
Oh cool, I still don't want to buy this game, despite my Marvel Fanboy self, but cool I guess.
It’s Nerf or nothing
Anthem 2.0 - I honestly do not think there is an industry out there that fails to learn from failure as much as game developers and gaming journalists
Well I do agree that levelling too often means it doesn't stand out and ends up feeling quite meaningless. At one extreme you have MMO levelling where eventually it takes a long time to level up but always feels satisfying and meaningful (in good MMOs anyway) but it does take a huge time commitment; at the other extreme you have Disgaea where with certain setups you go up literally 1000s of levels in one go and none of those levels individually stand out.
It's nice to get used to being a certain level, to the skills/spells you have, so when you level up again and get that new skill/spell it feels exciting.
I personally do get it, I would play a few missions and check the menu to have 3-4 unspent skill points, I wasn’t even looking at skills, just unlocking left to right.
@DrJames
Thats Outriders coming soon.
Such weak reasoning. Now I'm inclined to believe they just want people playing the game longer and grinding more so that they'll potentially buy more stuff in the multiplayer.
I recently finished the main story before being able to get a ps5. Not really much of an incentive to go back as it was but this put another nail in it
Imagine how much money squareenix will get if this game is a good single player game like spider-man or jedi fallen order..
@HotGoomba My thoughts exactly. Crashed then burnt what could have been one helluva game. Hard to believe they of all people could make such a dog's dinner from a guaranteed, sure-fire winner. It's Marvel FFS!
@Brydontk Now there's a thought. |I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was their cunning plan all along.
@Matroska Your comment reminded me of setting up intricate rainbow colored death traps in Disgaea years and years ago on PSP. There's something about how that series leans into the ability to break its systems that's a lot of fun.
With Avengers, I can see your point about how leveling too quickly can take the fun out of progression, but I still enjoyed coming back from each mission with a handful of skill points to disperse. I never had so many at once that I didn't care how they were applied.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Ha.
Ha ha.
These guys. Ha ha.
“I’m too overwhelmed to pick which parts to upgrade make me grind more please”
Said no one ever.
I feel this is just prep for this game going free to play eventually.
Nope, still stupid
More importantly if the developer thinks the problem with this game is that people level up too quickly then they have learned absolutely nothing and this game has no hope of recovery. Oh well it'll soon be joining the Anthem's of the world and deservedly so
So i know little about the boost system for this game, but can i assume you can purchase 'time saver' packs/xp boosters? That would be convenient, right?
Surely its been proven that one of the components that keeps people playing games is that feeling of constant progression, be it levelling up to improve stats, reaching a new rank, getting a new, cooler item. Thats what rpg's and looter shooters have thrived at for years. Slowing progression down makes no sense - particularly if it increases the grind - unless there are 'surprise mechanics' at play here, which only serve to benefit the developer/publisher.
Game is going to be completely dead by 2022. What a waste of such a popular IP
Goodbye Avengers. You guys tried, but it's dead. Just do like Anthem...
Having just nabbed the Platinum and really enjoying the game despite its flaws I’m personally really looking forward to replaying and ultimately furthering my play hours as future characters are added. Yes, the increased XP grind seems strange and the fact CD are suggesting players boost to 50 in preparation even stranger but I guess there’s nothing we can do so either don’t play the game or put up with the changes. Frankly there’s far more to worry myself with and having already got a Lvl 50 Iron Man and CapAm as well as a fully powered 150 All Father Thor build who, frankly, is incredible fun I’ll carry on where I left off with a cross save. Not sure whether trophies will auto pop though but I’m keen to replay the campaign again first as it was so good. Then I guess I’ll go from there ...
... which is nice!
squeezing the whales is all it's about
Laughable excuse that will fool literally no one.
They truly believe the majority of gamers are stupid as hell in that we would find it mentally overwhelming trying to assign and understand a few new perks.
@OmegaStriver If their backend system monitor is showing that people are not using perks properly then maybe they need to look at their user interface rather than blame players.
If they're that concerned about getting the grind just right, all that really suggests to me is that the game itself really isn't a lot of fun- that people keep playing more because they don't want to be a quitter rather than because they're enjoying themselves. Count me out
I haven't played this game, but if a mission is 10 minutes and you gain 2 levels that's to fast. You would hit end game play in 4:10hrs of play?
They should nerf the character model faces to match the actors we have all been looking at for the last 10 years
"If you max your levels & skill up too quickly you might reach the world section where its emblazoned TBC & stop playing! 😱And we promised squareenix an MCU online multiplayer game that would be a live service cashcow!"
@Danloaded How is the main story when looked at in a standalone way?
As I like Marvel's universe, I'd be interested in a fun, not too long single-player experience if it felt complete and enjoyable enough (and of course with a deep sale!), but what Ip played during the Beta left me very underwhelmed... does it get better? Does it feel like a complete game? Does the gameplay feel better and better as you unlock more characters?
If the game progress is too slow, they won't patch the game - they sell XP boosters. If game progress is too fast then they just patch it.
But hey, at least they aren't selling "50% less XP" anti-boosts and trying to tell us it's "PLAYER CHOICE!"
If the game had the depth to warrant this than yes, but who wants to continue to do the same missions over and over again.
@Olmaz I can't speak for @Danloaded , but I really enjoyed the single player game, with a few caveats. I started it on a PS4 Pro at launch, but it sent my fan into overdrive and the long load times were irritating, so I stopped in the early goings. Both of these issues were solved after installing it on PS5.
I've now completed the single player and Kate Bishop stories, spent no time in multiplayer, and am looking forward to the upcoming Hawkeye story. I also found the demo to be underwhelming, but was pleasantly surprised at how effective the story telling is in the opening sections of the actual game.
Long story short, fun single player and add on stories, post game stuff is a little sparse and samey, did not mess with multiplayer. 7 Super-Adaptoids out of 10, would avenge again, preferably solo.
Yeah I dip in and out here and there but if I have 2 grind even more I'm a peace out and leave them to sell boosters or go free 2 play whatever it is they plotting..... This is the industry that is "listening and values player feedback" and "something something something pride and accomplishement" aswell as "execute order 66" 😉😂
So how much longer until the plug gets pulled just like with Anthem?
Am I the only one that sees right through the marketing BS in that statement? Such as “this gives players more time to engage with & enjoy each skill purchase.” Yeah i’m suuuure going to enjoy the extra 3-5 hours grind it takes to unlock skills on not just one character, but all them *facepalm
Here’s a lesson for the devs. if the game is currently uninstalled on my system/others may be on the fence about purchasing in time for their “big update” then don’t do dumb sh*t like this that garners bad publicity for the sake of greediness. Do they want me back or do they want their player base to dwindle & become the next Anthem? Because it sure sounds like the latter.
They fail to realize that the boring grind is the problem. Why would people want to suffer through more of it?
Yeah, this game is dead. Devs are out of touch with the fanbase.
Can Disney please pull this license?
Sorry but didn't understand english of this article. Never heard of "double down" idiom and meaning of used words "overwhelming and halfway through" in leveling context.
But globally increasing grinding in the name of trying new skills is the biggest pile of excrements I've ever heard. No one, never, in history and future will NOT give chance for certain skills after first few tries. There is maybe a minute, just one minute max player gives chance to some skill. Than it is only "take it or leave it" because every player has its specific gamestyle and uses what fits him, not some developer. And if there is some gap in effectiveness of different skills, it is problem in balancing, not that skill hasn't been "long time" tested by player.
@j2c that would cost a fortune
So pretty much the Devs are giving the gamers the middle finger and tell them to deal with it.
They are pretty determined to milk the player base dry at this point 😏😏
should of done it offline campaign and released a few dlcs and used the cash for the sequel! look at the sucess of star wars jedi fallen order and ghost of Tsushima.
would of been a hell of a game but you blew it!
I was thinking of installing it again once the PS5 version is out and continue on side stories, but now I don’t feel like it.
Soon Outriders is out anyway and the devs there are quite the opposite of CD so far, even though both are under Square Enix.
@Olmaz pretty much what @Amnesiac said honestly. I enjoyed the single player missions, enjoyed Kamala alot more than i thought I would.
There are cons such as not enough boss fights, same old voice actors (getting abit sick of troy baker and laura bailey being in every AAA title, there are other VOs rant over lol), load times xan be a pain.
However i did get it at currys for £21 so id say i got my moneys worth
@Rob_230 nope. All purchases from the games Marketplace are cosmetic only. Nothing like level boosters or something like that anywhere. No boost system whatsoever.
Kinda sad that people make such a fuss about 3-5 hours of more leveling. To me it makes sense, as the gear is not locked behind a certain level. That means grinding to max character lvl 50 at the current pace could and mostly will result in that hero having a power level (basically an item level) that is far from the max lvl of 150. If the process of leveling the character takes a little longer (still only a couple of hours!) the Power level of the items will be closer to the finish line as well, which makes the whole experience smoother.
Go back to Deus EX? It turned a profit, right?
I think I support this, I don't like leveling to fast, want an increased gradual challenge and if this does that then I'm okay with it
Are they going too sell boosters then the excuse in ridiculous.
If people complain about the games leveling too slow then there is another problem too probably. People dont complain about playing the game longer if its fun so probably the content isnt that great either. I never felt that boring game got more fun if the leveling took longer. Dragon Quest Heroes 2 is such a game the leveling took too long and the rewards felt a little dissapointing. If people complain about it being too grindy you just dont have enough good content or good enough rewards too keep people playing.
@Subsided The leveling isnt why i play games its the fun. The rewards/content has too be good enough too keep me playing.
@DrJames It's also the only industry that gets away with knowingly releasing broken and unfinished products. Imagine if automobile manufacturers took the same approach. They'd never sell another car again.
This sucks for me, was planning to replay from the beginning since it's been 6+ months since I've played.
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