One of the things lost in Sony’s investor relations report last week, and brought back to our attention by ResetEra, is the company’s integration plan for acquisition target, Bungie. While the deal is yet to close, the platform holder expects the ink to be dry by the end of the year, and it’s already forming an integration plan for the Destiny developer.
Now, as you know, the Japanese giant wants to use the studio’s expertise to help with its live service game push, of which it intends to operate 12 concurrently by 2025. Currently, it’s working independently on these games within its PlayStation Studios infrastructure, but it intends to integrate all of Bungie’s knowledge across all of its operations after around one year.
The goal is to establish a new internal department named SIE Live Service Centre of Excellence, which it can leverage for all of its live service titles to ensure best practices are being observed. It’s worth remembering that Bungie will retain its independence, so will continue to release its own games across all platforms, but it’ll have an active role in shaping the philosophy behind Sony’s live service projects as well.
Interestingly, the platform holder wants to be learning from Bungie within three months of the deal closing, so it’s clear here that it massively values the design principles that have helped shape and grow the Destiny games. Eventually, the SIE Live Service Centre of Excellence will be tasked with reviewing important aspects like monetisation in both released and upcoming titles.
Obviously, a large chunk of the PlayStation fanbase are massively concerned by this new live service approach, although it’s important to remember that none of the games have actually been announced yet – they might be amazing. And maintaining live service titles is notoriously difficult, so at least the company appears to be taking things seriously if this is the business model upon which it intends to plant its flag.
[source sony.com, via resetera.com]
Comments 89
All fine and dandy. It's great the live service games will generate more revenue for Sony to make the other types of games I love. As long as we don't get fewer of the highest quality single-player experiences PlayStation is known for, it's fine to create ADDITIONAL revenue streams. I think the problem arises if they start making live service games in lieu of what their fans want.
Also, Destiny 2 absolutely rocks. I can't think of a better live service studio than Bungie. Their games just feel so good to play and rake in dough. A lot of their complementary services, like the Destiny app, are feature-rich as well. Their cross-play, cross-save, and app engineering expertise is quite the shot in the arm for PlayStation's future plans.
This sounds promising, I like that Sony is looking to cover their bases with this venture, and not just go down a new game type and then dropping it shortly after (eyetoy, mobile, vita)...
Yeah... time will tell but I'm not a fan of the GaaS model. I think it's only hurt the industry. At least Bungie is a bit of the exception to that rule. Destiny is quite fun when you're playing with friends/family.
What a weird world we live in to see that Bungie, once responsible for making the Xbox's flagship series, is now part of PlayStation's inner circle. I still absolutely hate GaaS because I've seen a lot more of them fail than succeed but I mean, If Sony kicks this off with Destiny 3 then it might be off to a good start.
@Uncharted2007 I don't think they are, they gained a million preorders from Witch queen alone and they still need more money that they lock off two dungeons and an exotic weapon behind a deluxe edition that is 80 dollars.
Another thing from the Investor report, I like the cadence of upcoming Sony releases. GOWR, Forspoken, and 1-2 Live Services for this year. Spider-Man, FF16, and 3-4 Live Services next year. Seems like things are picking up fast.
Yeah I saw this last week. It makes sense that Sony will want to efficiently run their live services. They will have seen all those that have been successful and those that failed and what contributed to them. I think ultimately Bungie ticked all the boxes for Sony's needs. If Sony wanted a successful live service developer they would in all likelihood would have to buy a publisher. Bungie on the other hand were independent, available and despite their flaws, they make compelling games that have retained a strong players base.
As much as I don't care about any of their upcoming live service games as I don't play anything multiplayer anymore, this does make a lot of sense for them to do it this way. At least their going to try to make sure they turn out to be good.
Not a fan of Bungie’s model at all. I tend to value story very highly and Bungie locks off content regularly, so I lost the plot a long time ago. If they could find a way to keep all the story content available I’d be into it. FFXIV has been able to do it right, keeping all content available through 4 expansions now without removing anything.
I don’t get ‘ It’s worth remembering’. That Bungie remains ‘independent’ doesn’t change the fact that it’s going to be Sony $. Their games are part of the live service games they mentioned, aren’t they?
Centre of excellence and live service together is a total oxymoron but yeh, sounds great. I’ll make sure I check it out at never o’clock on the 13th month 👎
So back in February Sony said 10 live service games by March 2026 and on Thursday that number was changed to 12 live service games by 2025. This suggests another live service heavy acquisition is inbound.
I Think 12 Live Service Games Is a Bit Much 3 or 4 Would Have Been a Better Number To Start With.
12 concurrently. Is there are market for that many along with the usual suspects along with others no doubt dipping their toes in the water by then too?
N.i.c.e. more games the better.interesting to see what bungie can make after destiny.word up son
I mean, I'll play the live service Ratchet and Clank with gacha mechanics for the weapons, but it doesn't mean I'll be happy about it.
@Nepp67 I wasn't aware. Still fun to play regardless of some crappy practices.
@BReal live service is the future , love to see it ! 😁
@Areus 12 is insane & the FOMO practices these games do is gonna drive peoples OCD mad
@nomither6 It Is Insane Most Of The Big Players That Make Nothing But Live Service Games Don't Even Have That Many.
So does this mean that old content in all of PlayStation's future games will be vaulted 😂
If it makes more money for Sony to fund future projects then great. But not a live service fan and will likely be staying away from them
How long does it normally take for an acquisition to go through. I also hope Bungie makes a new FPS after this is fully completed. Or that Sony give Resistance or Killzone to Bungie to make new games in the series or a remake of Resistance full of men.
I think Destiny plays well enough, but as an experience I think it's essentially impenetrable at this point. I played Destiny 1 extensively and I played 2 for short while and then dropped it. The one time I dropped back into 2 I had no idea where to go or what to do. I had no idea what currency was what, etc. This is kind of my problem with Live Service games across the board, it seems if you don't play them exclusively they are very difficult to get the most out of.
All of bungies knowledge ? They've literally got one game & the way they sell you content & then put it in their 'vault' is terrible lol
Live Service Centre of Excellence sounds like some sort of secret evil cult headquarter, hidden deep underground in the desert.
It's amazing that, as a former Bungie super-fan and mild PlayStation fan, I've never been able to muster a modicum of excitement for this acquisition and its prospects. I'm hoping Playstation's Twisted Metal reboot sells me on their live-service efforts. Until then, give me some single-player content to get hyped for, for god sakes.
I’m hype to see Sony finally have some good live service games with they’re good Single player games we about to eat good on all fronts.
The only live service game I want from them is a F2P Playstation All Stars spinoff a la Multiversus.
Putting that aside, I'm still worried since a lot of their live service/online only MP games attempts have been middling to say the least (anyone still remember Predator and Destruction All Stars?), so I'm hoping Bungie actually helps Sony on this area.
@RudeAnimat0r. I feel you on that. I played Destiny 2 for several months then stopped for a while. Tried to go back to it but was lost and eventually quit altogether. I dont have the time i used to to get everything out of those types of games. I do like Dauntless though as its free to play and it is just slaying monsters to gain currency for cosmetics. You can take a month off and come back play like you never left
"SIE Live Service Centre of Excellence"
What a nauseating vomitorium of words.
@TheCollector316 people keep assuming a lot but i highly doubt they'll stop making single player games. there is plenty of room for all types of games , they are expanding adding more studios to take on these projects. which is a good sign things are going well.
We get it. Bungie is the best developer ever.
The girlfriend you always wanted sony.
The girl that was hot in highschool and still is.
@TheCollector316 So you think they will pump out the same amount of single player games as now when allot of resources will now be going to all these new live service games?
Yes we will still be getting the single player games but less of them, at minimum I'm sure they will be taking less chance on new ips for story games.
@Juanalf
You may be right. We don't know. Everything has an opportunity cost, so they will always be making fewer single-player games than they could if those were their only focus, but I get the notion they are just expanding and adding more games. They basically have to because Microsoft bought two publishers in two years trying to catch up. Sony can't stay stagnant.
@Juanalf
Then sell your console. That goes for everyone else that is complaining. These new gen z gamers care more about the GaaS and that's what sony is catering too. I hate it too but it is what it is. Just like if anyone wanted non cinematic sp games from sony, well that guy is screwed because sony ain't making lots of them. So buy... idk. Something else.
Sp will always live because either sony has us, or they won't... and they rather have both bases. I can name like 10 AAAA sp games sony is making right now!
You'll see once these live service games start rolling out they'll be less and less of the great SP games Sony has been known for. I know they say "will always continue to make great SP games" but theirs nothing you can tell me to make me believe you have 10 plus live service games in development and think you have the workforce to maintain all those and continue to put out a consistent amount of SP games.
@Bentleyma
PS4 big AAA games:
InFamous
Killzone
Bloodborne
Uncharted 4
Ratchet
Horizon
GT Sport
GoW
Spidey
That Kojima game
Not Last of Us Open world
Last of us
Ghost
Ps5
Miles
Demon Souls remake
Returnal
Ratchet
Horizon FW
GT7
God of War Ragnarok
that's not even all of it lol. Now can we please... stop. I'm not assuming. Multiple job offers have appeared. I will need to copy this somewhere whenever the pessimist thinking starts leaking again.
@Ken_Kaniff
Look at the list I made above.
yes live service is great for sony if they hit but now that developer doesnt make anything else but support that game so people who didnt like it are ignored.
also more fail than hit
I dont like destiny so great bungie have made nothing of interest for me for a decade
@Juanalf thats just your opinion , sorry but that's complete misinformation. no where have i seen they will be making less single player games.
I dont understand the furore surrounding live service games..i got destiny with my ps4 and played it to death..i got destiny 2 free and really enjoyed it (i still do) and i bought the physical disc really cheap of ebay because i wanted the case to sit along side destiny (£7 for the forsaken edition) even though the dlc is effectivley locked out and that is the only gripe i have with it..if you dont like this business model then dont buy into it but there has to be choices for everybody..i dont like gespacio (its vile) but my wife does (she is odd) but that dosnt mean it shouldnt be allowed...
OK, so some design principles that are necessary for me to enjoy a live service game:
1) while I appreciate resets are needed to allow new players to join, I expect to be warned of any break in advance, meaning clear seasons (of sufficient length), and I would need trophies added for each season, but still all prior gameplay to remain and trophies to be achievable forever.Don’t sell me something then take it away.
2) micro transactions are for cosmetics only.
3) No time sensitive events that are shorter than 2 weeks in duration.
4) A personal one for me, but I have no interest in online co-op. Talking with randoms is not my thing.
5) There needs to be a minimum duration of commitment to a game. If I’m burnt by support being pulled for a game in which they get me invested, I will not be happy. Even if a game isn’t profitable immediately Sony need to be committed if they expect me to be.
One of my problems with Sonys stance is that having so many live service games running concurrently will make it harder to maintain numbers in any one of them.
Don't worry guys, I'm sure it's just a "second pillar!"
Bottom line is if this is more profitable than single player games, this is where their investment is going to go. How much growth potential is there in single player? Not much, and certainly compared to this. But it's fine, there's always indies and mobile. And PS5s have a great resale value to those GaaS fans ..
12 concurrent services is insane though. No company runs 12. Arguably there aren't 12 total surviving in the market right now. And they're not going to beat Fortnite and fifa and cod all at once. They'll have to cannibalize themselves. That's just sheer insanity. Even Ubisoft isn't that crazy.
@Ken_Kaniff remember when GTAV was going to get single player dlc expansions and then that became "soloable content for GTAO?"
@RevGaming and all those new ip listed are absolutely single player and not love services? With absolute certainly or is this Jeff Grubb kind of certainty?
@RevGaming Why should i sell my console. GAAS sucks ***** the less traditional games the less Sony titles i buy. If they go full Ubisoft then i wont buy a single Sony game again but there are more then enough 3rd party developers and the rest i can from Ebay no big issues here just less revenue from me.
@NEStalgia They only need one to stick they all want to be next GTA online.
@RevGaming EA also was a respectable developer at a time long ago. If i know one thing with money comes great scum if the investors see more money then they will force it.
Investors can be good but a lot of times they are a cancer that one want to see big revenue and they dont care what they destroy to get it. As long as they get all the money around. They dont give a crap about anything else a lot of the time.
I don't see this going well. As couple of comments have already said, EA was once a great major company, then live services took over and ruined them. Then Activision Blizzard also got ruined by live service.
I worry Sony are the next villains
I think I just threw up a little. Could not be further from what I want Sony to do, this gen is turning out to be their worst so far and i am personally starting to regret my purchase of ps5 a little to be honest
This is great news! To prepare for this I bought a PS3 and a Vita xD Seriously, though, I played Destiny 2 for a few days, at which point I realised I would have to spend months of my life to play most (not all) of the content. Never touching a GaaS again. All I'm hoping for this gen is The Last of Us 3 and Uncharted 5. Then I can retire happy and just play retro games.
So Sony plans on releasing 10 games that are all as grindy, unkind to newcomers, has spongy bosses, have 10 different currencies for random quest givers and just chop off bits of the story for a laugh as Destiny?
@Flaming_Kaiser
I already made a list of SP games that is bigger than the one ps4 had, and it's not even done because the gen is still starting.
Yet EA has refocused on SP with dead space, mass effect, dragon origins (dragon age*), star wars...
@NEStalgia
Sony will now make 80% of their games GaaS...
There are confirmed things on this site (Not Jeff Grubb)
Not everything revolves about what you guys want! You will end up buying more SP from Sony if what we expect and what I listed is true, so who cares!!
@twitchtvpat
Don't bother. I wonder why they want 10 more SP games when there are enough of them. They rather see people that like different stuff not enjoy gaming in another fashion.
Good to hear.
It sounds like they're taking this GAAS expansion very seriously. Hopefully one of the upcoming titles will be the GAAS game that finally hooks me.
@Enigk @Areus I think at least 10 of them are expected to fail or have modest success, and they are hoping that a couple hit it big.
It's probably a numbers games for Sony. Releasing one GAAS would likely be a flop, but release 12, and something's going to stick, right?
And let's be honest, GT7 is a GAAS and they charged full price for that. So even if the game doesn't get long term support, Sony are probably expecting to make money on the entry fee.
If you want live service exellence stay away from Bungie. Destiny has the worst model for live service games! I have paid over £150 on Destiny 2 and I cant play 99% of it how is that a good model yet there are people still gushing over Bungie. Played a few hundred hours of Destiny 2 but if I went back to it now it would be pretty much inpenatrable for me due to all these different seasons and currencies. I can understand Sony going after live service games but championing Bungie is a horrible idea. Destiny gameplay is great and fun with friends but there model is the worst in the business.
Between most games still being cross-gen and the emphasis being put on live service crap, Sony are really struggling to give me any reason to buy a PS5.
@Richnj Didn't think about the games they will charge full Sony price for.
The problem is if a few of these 12 are duds it may tarnish the brand if they push them hard to the general public which they will have to do to make as much money as possible from them.
@Enigk I agree, but I can only imagine that through out the PS4, Sony saw how much money they and their 3rd parties were making through micros and that they've got their blinkers on.
Well the comments section didnt dissapoint! Love it or hate it (im in the rather like it side) D2 is a pretty great game these days, but ive been playing since all the way back in D1. Ive built up a nice little UK clan to play with so Its a crying shame that its such a rubbish experience for new or lapsed players to get into.
The current team they have seem to understand the games needs etc and they have mastered the art of GaaS model so its easy to see why Sony wants their help. D2 is the only live service game I play unless No Mans Sky counts? but its mainly sp games and cool little indies / AAs I play. Both types of games can co-exist quite happily.
People are forgetting that literally 3 or 4 of those live service games will be the MLBs. Also a couple of them could be VR games too so when you break it down it might not be as many full console live service games.
@NEStalgia I think it may end up being that every new game that started development after Jim Ryan took over is live service.
So it’s only 12 games I have no intention of ever playing…
@AdamNovice
There’s also Bungie new IP that strangely Push doesn’t want to acknowledge. Haven studio is making 2 or 3 games projects 1 of which is GaaS. Deviation new IP I suspect is Sony IP. And a few others but I think there’s some ‘platform’ war fud and mind game going on with the negativity. I don’t believe everyone is as silly as to think Sony will stop doing SP story driven games. Heck they even insisted that’s their strength and doubling down on new IPs.
@pushsquare
Please can you do an article of how to get back into Destiny 2? I played Destiny and then stopped for a number of years and I’m not sure how to begin with destiny 2. So many expansions - do I need them to play? If I don’t have them and just have vanilla game what does it mean. I’m a bit lost with it all. I’m sure others are too…
Just don't delete old content for these games like with Destiny. I like experiencing the beginning of online games...
@JJ2
I always like how you and @naruball
are the voices of reason of this community.
@NEStalgia You're 100% right, if these games are successful we can kiss SP games goodbye in the future. My hope is that the hardcore Sony fanbase push back on these games and they fail, but this Jim Ryan led Sony doesn't care about the dedicated fan base. Their targeting the casual audience only with that many GaaS in development.
@Ken_Kaniff wonder what happens when they hit the Fortnite/GTA/cod/apex buzzsaw?
@Flaming_Kaiser that much is definitely true.
@Grumblevolcano Yeah, I said here often back at launch as people praised Sony's games that all those were greenlit before Ryan and we don't know what Ryan's PlayStation looks like.... Now we do. It's a PlayStation for an entirely different market.
@revgaming If you're right, great, but do you have sources for that list being single player non gaas games, or did you just present a list of gaas games as proof that what people here want is coming?
@NEStalgia
Not all games will be fortnite level. They won't grow a console player base if they stop making single player games. They'll go somewhere else. Lets take some steps back... and chill.
@RevGaming I think that's a bit of wishful thinking. Yes, take a step back, but think business, not fandom. If the single player market doesn't represent growth or high ROI, live service does, and their plan is growth.... Why put a dime into single player? It's not going to grow the market or show high returns. It's a dead end for their growth strategy. It goes out the window.
@NEStalgia
So apply that to single player. No single player user base? Less money. God of War made almost a billion in revenue. That's 4-5 god of war sequels. They won't stop just cause (don't buy that game).
@RevGaming One massive hit made that kind of money. How much did Days Gone make? Subtract.
Single player games cost a ton to make, may not return, and have a sales cap. Services keep giving if successful.
More importantly take a look at actual revenues. How much of the market buys a PlayStation to play Sony first party single player games? Not nearly as many as buy for Fortnite, cod, fifa, Minecraft (!), Valhalla....
If you were Sony with their current strategy would you not start looking at how to turn those open world single player ips, spiderman, got, horizon, infamous, into future services?
I really think you're into wishful thinking about them putting serious money into the future of single player and not looking at industry historical data of the patterns followed by companies focusing on service money.
Now EA is going away from it, but it took years of failure and almost no output for them to return to that. Plus they're looking for a buyout and I suspect that has something to do with the sudden direction change.
@NEStalgia
Days Gone made enough. They just didn't want to make it because it had mid reviews.
You keep forgetting this is a hardware seller and a publisher at the same time. No matter how much money their "Fortnite" makes, they won't get the single player crowd to buy their console, they'll flock to xbox and casuals that play multiplayer would get xboxes to play with them. It's not up to negotation for sony. They have to please the sp crowd and anyways. Look at the list dude.
No. I wouldn't. SP games usually don't work well in a multiplayer scenario. I'm not wishful thinking, you're being very very pessimistic about the situation. Even with games list on your face you decide to be pessimistic.
Exactly. Sony looks at what happened to EA. Or Ubisoft atm. So why do you worry? I honestly can't reply to you anymore. Not every developer makes games that can only make fortnite kind of money. In fact. Most games aren't like that.
Idk if you know how consoles sell. You need to please the shooter, fighting, cinematic, artistic, indie, single player only and the other crowds that play other types of games. You need to please all of them.
@RevGaming Isn't a service also to be an exclusive hardware seller?
Wait, Fortnite players and casuals will buy Xboxes for them huh? But more are playing it on PS than Xbox. That's Jim's point! Most of their OWN players are playing for big service games, and not their single player games. That's why they want to shift.
You still are referencing a list of vague games from vague references, with zero confirmation those games refer to single offline games or services. If they're truly offline, great, but where is this listed? Nothing about that list doesn't tell us those aren't all services unless there's some source saying they aren't. Otherwise the list isn't meaningful.
I'm not sure if you're basing your outlook on that list or on hope. But the way you're envisioning things fly in the face of business and industry trend/history.
The full effect of the shift won't happen until several years go by, but by 2027 I expect few single player games from them. Not 0, but few. Their financial and material resources are going to necessarily be consumed by 12 service games. Magic extra resources don't appear out of thin air, and even more mid size buyouts don't create enough support for managing 12 simultaneous services built from zero.
@bighal the standard game without the expansions is really light on content it was originally a full priced game when it released but they then made it free to play because of how bare bones it is lol I recently gave the first game a playthrough & completed it in a few hours pretty much all of its actual story content is locked behind its payed expansions
@NEStalgia
You sound like EA a few years go.
@RevGaming That's my point. That's where Sony is now.
"Sony is cool and wouldn't do that!" Isn't a realistic take
@NEStalgia
Not every publisher has to go through that phase either. My expectations are more realistic than yours. Sorry to say. Also. Not every dev can make mp games. Ask Capcom
@RevGaming and your "more realistic" expectations are based on "Sony is awesome and not like other publishers" instead of looking at the industry norm for other publishers that have made the same decisions?
I mean, you're not the only one doing it, but it's just too common among brand fans to somehow assume their favorite brand isn't like those other brands and the company doesn't behave the same way. Sometimes that's true but it's not "the company", it's the individuals leading it that choose to do better. That management isn't around anymore. It's an all new crew with an eye towards boldly going exactly where a half dozen publishers have gone before....
Also, Capcom is doing just fine with multiplayer Street Fighter and MonHun....
@TheCollector316 100% agreed, I see no harm in them making live-service games, as long as single player games aren't affected.
I hope Sony acquires Bungie and makes Not Halo, which is basically Halo, but not, as a f*** you to Microsoft.
Everything Sony has been doing recently has been pushing me ever so slightly farther away from their products. I've been wearing my PS4 into dust until I can get ahold of a PS5, but if the future of PS is GaaS I think I'll just stick with Steam from now on.
@TheCollector316 These games can also be as amazing and fun as regular PlayStation games, and if it's like Sony's online games (like Ghost of Tsushima's online) it's going to be very nice, and it could go on for years like Microsoft's Minecraft.
I'm happy about the service games, because these games can be as amazing and fun as Sony's single player games, and can also be seen from the Ghost of Tsushima online game and the uncharted online games and the last of us that Sony knows what they're doing, so I trust Sony to bring We have fun and addictive service games that will accompany us for years to come. But what does suck me a bit is that they want to aim for 10 service games in the coming years, and I hope Sony does not do that and give us two to three service games invested and fun as they know how to do.
@TheCollector316 I can think of a better live service studio. The guys from FFXIV.
But Destiny nowadays sure is a very good live service game.
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