We’ve written a lot about the pros and cons of PS1 emulation on PS5 and PS4, but leave it to Digital Foundry to compile the best analysis yet. A new video published today really breaks down the areas Sony needs to improve in, and it’s a constructive watch that’s free of any hyperbole or ranting. All in all, the conclusion is that the Japanese giant has a lot of work to do – especially if it intends to sell its new PS Plus Premium tier on the strength of classic games.
The biggest issue, of course, is the use of PAL 50Hz ROMs, which we’ve already reported on. Digital Foundry hypothesises that these have been used to provide greater language support, but it’s worth acknowledging that Nintendo offers both NTSC 60Hz and PAL 50Hz versions in its comparable service. At the very least, Sony could provide everyone with the best possible experience by offering both builds and allowing users to choose which one they want to use.
Instead, a new patch released earlier today has attempted to “fix” the 50Hz problem by leveraging a technique called frame blending, which effectively spoofs 60Hz. This results in an ugly ghosting effect, as demonstrated by the Twitter post below:
Elsewhere, there are some really weird oversights here, like the fact that PSP games offer a scanline filter – despite the handheld having an LCD display. All of this speaks to a lack of time, budget, or – perhaps worst of all – care being invested into this project. While many of the issues that Digital Foundry picks up on are quite small and unlikely to be observed by more casual players, it’s clear that Sony has a long way to go before this initiative is up to scratch.
Let’s hope it puts in the hard yards rather than simply abandon its efforts...
[source youtube.com]
Comments 65
Good video and very constructively presented. I think it's probably fair to say the vast majority of players would never notice the majority of these issues, but that doesn't mean Sony shouldn't put in the hard yards to get these re-releases where they deserve to be.
@get2sammyb It does sound like they're trying to improve it though. Just not all the way there yet.
There really is just a baffling lack of care put into these. Both in regards to this extremely predictable ghosting issue and the PSP scanline issue. Adrenaline on PS Vita offers several different shaders including simulating LCD screens and AA.
Were PS2 titles abandoned from the new service? Did they announce that? (I ask in sincerity. I missed a lot today) Or is that a reference to abandoned efforts to improve them?
I mean it looks like Sony are actively trying to fix it, so I don't know if we can declare that they don't care about it yet.
If it's a junk service in 6 months I'll be happy to save my money and walk away from it.
But right now they're still ironing out the creases.
That ghosting is horrid though. 😬
Maybe this explains why they released the PAL versions 🤔 They clearly think they have a fix.
Wow. I was expecting something nitpicky, but that's actually super noticeable.
"Let’s hope it puts in the hard yards rather than simply abandons its efforts, like it appears to have done with the PS2 titles..."
Yeah this is what will happen tho Imho. The fact that they dont have any intentions on adding more PS2 Games is prove of it
@Shepherd_Tallon They said it would have PS2 games which was a bit of a white lie as the only PS2 games are ones which were previously ported to PS4 and were already available with PS Now. In fact, there are actually less than were available with PS Now.
Sony are onlying starting out on this, it was very unlikely to be perfect out of the gate.
The emulation will improve over time. Very little these days is released running anywhere near perfectly. These days it's called being 'Agile'.
Running games I used to play at 50hz, at 50hz, really isn't an issue for me. I was never really fussed back in the day, often the better resolution outweighed the lower frame rate.
The only issue I have is that they just look so dated on a 65 inch TV, kind of spoils the memory in a way.
We should not be accepting 'oh they'll make it better later' ' they're only starting out'. They ask us for our money on day one and that seems to be acceptable to some Sony apologists on here. Accepting half baked efforts is why we keep getting half baked efforts
This is why they didn’t release in west first. If this was the first glance of it in US territory, this would be done.
Well, I already made my mind to exclude from highest tier to second tier once my sub runs out. Which is mid 2025... Long way to go, maybe things will change.
@Shepherd_Tallon Well the PS2 games are from the old PS4 initiative, which they stopped releasing years ago. Although you're right, that sentence could be misleading so I'll edit it.
@RatmCky Maybe, but I think it's optimistic to assume they'll have fixed everything by 13th June.
Fingers crossed they'll make some progress by then, though!
@get2sammyb Fair play.
Thanks, Sammy!
@lolwhatno But without knowing what goes into emulating these games and putting it into the PS4 and PS5 OS it's difficult to say whether it's rushed or not.
@AdamNovice yeah but this is a little 🥴
Still baffles me how freelance programmers make better emulators than Sony, constantly.
I'll just stick to emulating them on my PC with much better emulators, if Sony can't be bothered to do it correctly for a paid so called premium service then they're not getting my money for them.
They emulated PS1 games on PS3 over a decade ago and then released the poorly received PS Classic nearly 4 years ago and must have seen the response to PAL games. There is no excuse for any of these issues at launch
I'll say it again. I do not think Sony preserved their NTSC versions.
That's why they are missing and why they took steps to preserve what they do have.
@AdamNovice yeah its not like they were emulating PS1 games on PS3 15 years ago
@theMEGAniggle Passion and no unrealistic deadline, would be my guess.
@theMEGAniggle Because these freelancers can do it in their spare time and on PC, it's a lot different then trying to get it onto console OSs while also supporting trophies, screen captures and share play.
@carlos82 Don't know if you've noticed but PS4 and PS5 are different systems with different architectures with their own complexities.
It's a shame that it turned out so bad
@AdamNovice don't know if you noticed but they're basically PC's these days. Duckstation runs incredibly well on a variety of devices including the Xbox which component wise is virtually the same thing
@carlos82 There maybe based on PCs but they are not typical PCs. Xbox is better suited to it because it has windows. Sony doesn't have that luxury.
Just when I though sony care about it's games legacy.. Xbox BC are way better than this with a frigging 4K upscale and 60 fps.
I'm glad I still have PS2 machines to play both PS2 and PS1 games and PS3 machine to play PS3 games.
Another day, another batch of mind boggling headlines from Sony.
@wiiware Because Xbox has more resources, decades of PC programming knowledge, plus a smaller library to work with.
@AdamNovice that wouldn't prevent them from getting an emulator working, it makes it harder for the community but even so PCSX has been on jailbroken PS4's for a couple of years in a fashion. Not to mention the variety of emulators on the PS4/5 through various retro game collections, including a Saturn one.
That said it still doesn't explain the choice of PAL games, I understand the potential language argument but why not have a choice like Nintendo does?
@carlos82 Nintendo only started adding that option awhile later, people need to remember that this service is just a few days old in one region, it will evolve over time.
@AdamNovice If I could give each of your posts in this comments section two likes I would.
@AdamNovice yeah that is true and hopefully they will improve it and listen to feedback, its just frustrating when they've had much of it before this service started
@carlos82 I can understand that.
@Shepherd_Tallon Thanks for the support mate. This week's comments have been ridiculous.
Sony is really awful at software. Just embarrassingly awful.
@Shepherd_Tallon I got you. I gave all his posts another like. Although for some it was the first like...
@Milktastrophe Ah you're right! I missed two.
🙇♂️
😂
@Milktastrophe lol cheers mate
@AdamNovice
Actually the PS4 and PS5 are very, very similar from an architectural standpoint. Both are x86 machines. The basics are the same.
The primary difference is in audio processing. The PS4, like every console since the PS2, uses its CPU to process audio data. The PS5 uses a dedicated audio subsystem (Tempest) for audio processing, making it similar in concept to consoles like the original PlayStation or the SNES. Just millions of times more sophisticated. It can still rely on CPU processing for audio since that is critical for PS4 compatibility.
Other than that, the PS4 and PS5 are very similar at the architectural level. Which is why the PS5 can run PS4 software natively at high compatibility without hardly any work from developers or Sony itself. To a PS4 game, it looks like a PS4. Or more accurately, a PS4 Pro.
@OrtadragoonX Oh I knew that, was more about how different they are to the PS3 which was probably the of the consoles with a "exotic" architecture.
@AdamNovice thanks and I appreciate the discussion
I'll play classics in whatever quality I can get it, I'm not as concerned as most
I'd say the biggest issue is the lack of games on the service ...
@carlos82 Thanks for being respectful, it makes a change from being called a "fanboy" or a "Sony apologist"
@AdamNovice
Ah I got ya.
Yeah the PS3 was exotic. Probably the most beautiful console architecture ever produced. The Cell is still better at crunching floating point operations than the most current Intel and AMD CPUs. It’s only rivaled and surpassed by modern GPUs.
Which is sort of ironic. If a console like the PS3 was released today, developers would have a fairly easy time using the Cell. The Cell closely resembles modern GPU architectures.
It was ten years too early. No one in the game industry back then knew how to use single operation parallel processing units. Today? It’s a key part of GPU designs and why they are so popular for blockchain processing.
Had block chain been big back in 2006, the PS3 would have been impossible to find because everyone would have been using them to mine crypto.
@OrtadragoonX Same with the Vita, wish it came out around 2015 instead.
@OrtadragoonX thank you for the informed comment. It's sad how some consumers behave like spokesmen for a Corporation they give money to. The simping is so hard you'd think they are on Sony's payroll or such.
When the actual fact is WE pay money for a service and we are entitled to receive our money's worth
@AdamNovice
The PS2 is also a pretty exotic piece of kit. It works on fundamentally different programming principles than the Dreamcast, GameCube, or original Xbox. Basically if a game took advantage of what the PS2 had to offer (namely super fast data transfers and a super efficient data pipeline versus raw component output) it was very difficult to get those same games to run acceptably on the GameCube or Xbox.
Most developers outside of studios like Naughty Dog and Kojima never leveraged the PS2’s unorthodox design to its full potential. The DMA controller and MMU design of the PS2 was it’s beating heart. It was all about moving data from place to place to fast.
I applaud push square and it’s staff for dealing with all this sensibly and not being apologists. We aren’t over reacting to expect a big feature of a £100 a year service to work day one. Especially with all the upgrade nonsense and all that.
@Voltan But are they really trying to improve it by making it worse? If anything, it shows how much better the people at Xbox are at doing this than the people Sony hired off of Craigslist for this.
As you already know, I'm a Sony fan, so I'm not taking a cheap shot obviously.
I'm kind of happy other regions get to beta test this for us.
Here's hoping that they actually put care into the service though. I would have been perfectly happy with the ps plus & ps now subscriptions I already had, if these don't wind up being up to par.
Did they even test this before releasing it?
Still baffles me that people were expecting performance like ePSXE/PCSX2 out of the box.
Took Nintendo a couple of months to get N64 emulator working properly on Switch despite having access to N64's documentation and architecture, and even then new games released still have some kinks to be ironed out.
@OrtadragoonX Part of me’s a little disappointed that I’m too young to have been fully qualified back when consoles were ingenious feats of engineering. I know the PS5, Switch and Xbox have their own little quirks but architecture has been standardised quite a bit over the years. Reading up on the Emotion Engine and even the N64’s coprocessor system makes me appreciate how vastly different consoles were back in the day.
@AdamNovice The fact they have done it before on previous systems successfully suggests they should have some idea from the get go
what in the living hell is sony doing? have they farmed this out to some inexperienced studio at the edge of the world or something? this is just as pathetic as the ps classic mini a few years back. a rushed product with a complete disregard for the quality of the product. would it be that hard to use NTSC roms??? like seriously... fix this s**t asap sony.
I mean it’s a massive thing they’ve launched, even with just the number of games they’ve brought out as launch titles. No way that’s happening looking and performing dope af straight out of the gate. Expect optimisation to happen in rather quick order. Whole lotta chicken littles here that need to unbunch. Anyone that this is a major deal to or didn’t expect it to need some improvements should seek help and get a grip
@AdamNovice C'mon dude, psone emulators on pc that's made free by fans are better than this, you think sony with their billions of dollar can't make a better emulator? I means, really?
I think sony just didn't care about their games legacy, ps classic games on ps5 are just one way to make their new psplus seems full of games since they didn't want to add their new games on the services.
Hopefully they have everything sorted out in time for the USA launch...
@AdamNovice true that
I was bitchin’ about the European launch delay earlier but now I’m on starting to be a-okay with it. Hopefully Sony will have ironed out the kinks by then.
@get2sammyb Whilst Push Square might not be Digital Foundry,once the PS Plus roll-out happens, will Push Square "review" the ps1/ps2/psp games & maybe review their overall playability themselves?
Daresay there's a few people debating the merits of trialling the Deluxe/Premiun tier,& maybe a review of the games offered as a whole would be enlightening?🤔
@wiiware Emulators on PC are way too different than what we see in Xbox/Switch/PS.
I could go on and on, but the short version of this is, PC not only has better hardware to run emulators, they also have a plethora of APIs to do so, if a game doesn't work good on DirectX you can change the API to Vulkan or OpenGL and it should probably work better.
Also, emulation has to be tackled on a per game basis on consoles instead of a per system basis we often see on PC.
@Blaze215
You're spot on!! 💯
Couldn't have said it better! 👍
@CielloArc My dude, I can play psone emulator on android phone, ps5 is basically a mid to high-end pc with great cpu, good video card, and super fast ssd drive, it’s better than most pc out there for gaming.
I refuse to believe that this is the best of what sony can do for psone emulation on ps5, I think as a customer we have to expect better result than this.
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