FromSoftware is still struggling to lock its games to 60 frames-per-second, it seems. The Japanese developer has a history of not quite reaching its technical targets, with beloved games like Bloodborne and even the much more recent Elden Ring exhibiting performance flaws — particularly on consoles. And it's the same old story with Armored Core 6: Fires of Rubicon, according to the new analysis from Digital Foundry.
Now, obviously, the mech-'em-up is a completely different kind of game when compared to FromSoftware's famous action RPG output, but it still uses the same engine as the aforementioned Elden Ring. You can't fault the studio's flexibility, at least.
Again though, recurring issues are present in Armored Core 6. The report goes into detail about the game's three graphics settings on PS5: quality, performance, and ray-tracing. As you'd expect, quality bumps the resolution up at the cost of frames, while performance mode utilises dynamic resolution to keep the frame rate as close to 60fps as possible. However, both modes actually work with an unlocked frame rate.
The problem, then, is that even when using the performance mode, Armored Core 6 likes to drop frames. Digital Foundry calls its a "loose grasp on the target", which doesn't exactly paint a great picture — although it's apparently better than what you'll find in Elden Ring. Meanwhile, the 4K resolution mode mostly hovers between 30 and 45fps. It's the kind of fluctuation that makes us wonder whether some players would have just preferred a stable 30fps cap.
Funnily enough, just like with Elden Ring, the analysis presents the idea of playing the PS4 version of Armored Core 6 on PS5, via backwards compatibility. This does result in a more stable frame rate, but the trade-off is that you'll be looking at noticeably worse quality assets and textures, coupled with a lower resolution across the board.
Have the frame rate dips gotten to you at all in Armored Core 6? Build your mech and then start blasting in the comments section below.
[source eurogamer.net]
Comments 62
I’ve been playing it on resolution mode and the frame rate seems perfect to me. I don’t see the issue.
Personally, I never encountered any frame rate drops in 70+ hours of playtime. Then again, maybe I’m not enough of a ‘frame-rate snob’ to notice.
Still an absolute beast of a game.
@KAIRU not everyone who prefers higher frames is a "snob", some people can't play at lower frames and when large frame dips occur it can cause them to feel dizzy or nauseous.
If people wanna get buggered by poor performance, let them, it doesn't detract from your overall experience.
@Jaz007 You don’t see an issue cause you’re looking at the game through whatever post-processing the developer adds on top of what ever nonsense post processing is added from your tv. You need a frame rate tool to bypass all the nonsense and see the actual frame the game running at.
One day we’ll find those missing frames, piece them altogether, and discover the plot.
@General_Disarray Yeah and there are plenty of people who throw a hissy fit if a game isn't 60fps...even though they don't even have a clue it's not running at 60fps for example untill they are told by these tests
Maybe they should remaster Bloodborne in order to figure it out...
@AverageGamer If it causes a noticeable or annoying stutter, then it matters. If you can only tell it's dropping frames with a fancy technical tool to count frames, then it doesn't MATTER that it's dropping frames.
@General_Disarray Not calling those who prefer a higher frame-rate a snob by any means! I mean, if you give me the choice between 30fps and 60fps, I’m obviously going to play at 60fps.
It doesn’t stop me enjoying Bloodborne in all its 30fps glory.
@StylesT strange, I don't remember addressing this comment to you.
You seem triggered by my non-offensive statement, are you okay?
@KAIRU for sure, thank you for a rational reply, I fired up Bloodborne a few weeks ago on my PS5 and you know what? It didn't seem that bad for being only 30fps.
Been playing for the last few days in performance mode. If it’s dropping frames, it’s completely negligible. Rock solid experience so far.
I think the least we should have expected from PS5 and Series X this gen is a rock solid 60fps as a minimum. That alone would have proven a proper generational leap over PS4/Xbox One.
I'm not one of those people who suffer from nausea etc. from lower frame rates nor do I think that 30fps necessarily makes a game worse. But I can appreciate the difference the higher frame rate provides.
Playing Gears of War at 120fps on my friend's Xbox was a genuine revelation.
@RobN I’m just saying it getting harder to judge a game’s actual performance off the eye when you have a ton of modern tools and features like VRR and good motion blur to cover up stutters or fluctuations in frame rate… Now we’re going to have fake frames soon with stuff like AMD’s Fluid Motion Frame tech. That why tech reviews/analysis like Digital foundry is great as they are able to really dig into a game actual performance.
During my time with elden ring I've never encountered any frame rate issues with performance mode. Slight drops here and there but not enough to where I thought, "The frame rate in this game is unstable."
@General_Disarray
In all fairness, you are posting in a public comment section. You can reply to someone, but anyone else is entitled to join that discussion, as I am demonstrating now.
Your comment had valid points, as did StylesT's. Telling them that it has nothing to do with them is not cohesive with a public comment section.
As for the topic, I much prefer a locked frame rate, be that 60 that should by now be the industry standard, or 30 if all else fails. A fluctuating frame rate can be awful and depending on the user can cause discomfort. If your engine can't keep a consistent frame rate, just lock it. I suppose that's easier said than done, as I have no idea how it actually works, but I'm going to tell them what to do anyway!
Elden ring isn't running at full 60 fps on ps5 but I'm having so much fun with the game that I didn't think about the framerate at all. I heard armored core 6 is way smoother on ps5, maybe because it's not an open world game.
I mean yeah it does drop but not enough for me to care.
@General_Disarray No problem!
Bloodborne looks brilliant at 30fps. Sure, it would look better at 60fps, but it still one of, and in my opinion it is the absolute best PlayStation exclusive out there.
@Kidfried exactly. And in Jerry Maguire, we wouldn’t know exactly when Tom Cruise got Renee Zellweger.
It's been pretty rock solid for me so far. If it has dropped any frames it's been 2-3 max. Frame drops only bother me if it's drastic like fluctuating between 60-30 during combat.
For all of these people who pass out if the game drops to 54FPS - what did you play before this was a possibility?
@General_Disarray And Kairu didn't direct his comment to you originally...but you replied to him....it's how comments sections tend to work sunshine
P.s Can safely say only one of us seems triggered you oddball
Played the game from start to finish and the framerate dip wasn't that big deal for me. While I prefer smoother framerates nowadays, the dip in framerate for this game wasn't all that bad and most of the time, barely noticeable.
Then again, I guess I'm just used to 30fps and some framerate dipping considering I also play on Switch and some older consoles. Also Bloodborne in 30fps still looks great and cinematic imo.
@StylesT and that would be....you? It's okay if you are, hun.
Sending hugs your way 🥰
Frames per second is the only reason i consider selling my PS5 and Series X and building a high end gaming PC. Consoles for as much as i love them for their ease of use just never seem to be great performance wise and that is ok. They are insanely good value at their price points and have great library of games. But i am playing less games these days and the ones i do play i 100% them or in Diablo 4 case i will be playing it for years and years on end. So i want top tier performance. However this studio is garage at getting performance. They make good games, ain’t knocking them for that. But they don’t have any history with optimization.
@General_Disarray what are you talking about? If you feel dizzy or nauseous over a videogame than you shouldn't be playing games. 60 fps is still sort of a new thing. How did people function before modern consoles?
@ROBLIVION "60 fps is still sort of a new thing.". Hahahaha what?! 60 fps goes back as far as Super Mario 3 on NES and even farther.
And no, they shouldn't, you are right. But people have this funny thing of doing whatever the hell they want regardless of side effects, even if it is detrimental to their health or others around them.
No but getting nauseous from thirty frames per second is a little ridiculous
I remember talking about this back when Elden Ring released. From Soft should do a better job optimizing their engine to make games have a more stable framerate.
I know people go "From Soft games always have that touch of jank" Yeah but it's 2023 and From Soft has released how many games already, there's no excuse for them to not optimize their engine.
Runs like butter on my PC but even at absolute max graphics it still looks like a PS3 game. Surprised to see the PS5 struggles with it at all
I mean, the game plays very well. I’ve noticed a few drops here and there, but given the madness on the screen at times, I’ve been very impressed with Armored Core VI’s technical performance in my playtime so far. Waaaaaay better than Elden Ring (at least at launch).
PS - from PushSquare’s review: “…rock-solid performance on PS5 make it a worthwhile experience as a whole…”
@Deadlyblack No normal person complains about it ever. Just froot loops who stalk places like digital foundry. DF always being an absolute plague on the industry. people have to worry about nonsense apparently. making up sicknesses.
From has always been a solid but flawed developer. The GOAT praise for them is baffling to me.
@Deadlyblack
“ ‘Insert developer name here’ games always have that touch of jank” Is the go-to quote of every rabid fanboy
“Yeah but it's 2023 and ‘Insert developer name here’ has released how many games already, there's no excuse for them to not optimize their engine.” Is also the go-to quote for people who disagree with those rabid fanboy.
depending on perspective, ps4 wins then? that's funny to see.
@ROBLIVION I was trying to play FF16 at 60fps but it looked bad so I switched to 30fps and just swinging the camera around for a bit made me feel nauseous until I adjusted. It happens.
@AverageGamer I literally made a comment on an article about the PS4 version being more stable then the PS5 for Elden Ring on this very site back in February of 2022 saying the same thing.
Now we're here in 2023 with a new From Soft game talking about essentially the same thing.
I said on Thu 24th Feb 2022 "I always find it weird that whenever any other games releases without a stable framerate, it gets torn to shreds.
But when FromSoftware releases a game with horrid framerate it gets a pass because "Oh it's the usual FromSoft jank that everyone is used to"
Well, there has to be a time where the devs have to iron out the wrinkles. It's 2022 and this is their 7th Souls game, they should be able to. No excuses." And it still applies here!
@Cashews A friend that I had back in high school had an older sister that couldn't play specific games cause they would give her a really bad migraine that would lead to motion sickness, so it's very much a real thing.
Also I'm a framerate snob so if a game has the option to play at 60 fps, I'm picking it all day. If it doesn't I can live with 30 fps but it has to, at least, be stable. If it dips below 30 all the time it'll drive me mad.
@Deadlyblack I've been hearing it all week with Starfield release... "Oh, it's the usual Bethesda jank that everyone is used to". A studio only gets torn to shreds; if the studio hasn't built up a large enough fanbase or have completely ruined their relationship with their fanbase.
I was recently pondering this issue in the context of the current darlings of the industry Starfield and Tears of the Kingdom. What it tells me is that the fuss about frame rate is largely overblown (if the game is good).
I didn't really notice too many significant dips in performance just from eyeballing it, but there were some issues. The sand crawler mission had some dips, especially the 3rd run version, but that was just during the set-piece of it being destroyed, and there's some noticeable hitching during IB01, but that boss would be dogwater even if there wasn't any.
The very last boss also had really noticeable hitching from everything that is going on in that fight, but it clears up during the 3rd phase, which is the most difficult part.
Not really too big of an issue, and neither was Elden Ring.
It's not like Star Wars Jedi Survivor which was actually unplayable in certain spots at launch due to the framerate constantly stuttering and hitching and had horrible AWFUL screen tearing to boot (setting foot in that bandit fort place at launch is enough to give anyone a headache I think, it was like a satanic PowerPoint, the visual equivalent of being three inches near a fire alarm going off), and the performance for AC6 and ER is not nearly as bad as Remnant 2 which wasn't nearly as bad as Jedi.
@Deadlyblack Completely agree! I have no idea what FromSoftware is doing behind the scenes with their engine, but Bluepoint was able to make a game look more amazing than anything FromSoftware ever did with the Demon's Souls remake and that game is smooth as silk!
I only really use Demon's Souls as the example because it was another studio taking a stab at FromSoftware code (no pun intended) and doing a much better job at it than FromSoftware.
I love the studio's games, but man their engine needs a new set of eyes or something!
@Constable_What I’ve been playing Jedi Survivor in base 30 fps fidelity mode and it has been fine and almost always stable. I’ve noted significant frame hitches maybe a couple times in 80 hrs of game time.
@AverageGamer In practice, what’s the difference then?
Elden ring is currently sitting in the top slot of my fave games of all time and i never had any issues with the frame rate so i very much doubt i'll have any issues with this game too. I can't play bloodborne for long as the frame rate combined with that chromatic abhoration is just migrane inducing for me. Its the only game i own that actually gives me a headache if i play it. Does that make me think its a knob game? No it dosnt but it makes me wish that from software would invest more time in a better game engine. Lies of p made me feel quite queasy until i spent time adjusting the camera as it was very floaty in the default setting. I cant explain it but that slight lag behing the controler inputs really through my balance off. I'll take 60fps all day over resolution but thats my personal preference. I found gotham knights to be really good despite being hammered by every review for only running at 30fps but it seemed very smooth mostly and i still love that game (i know the shame) so games running at 30fps can be a joy to play just not all.
@General_Disarray I for real thought I hadn't eaten properly when that happened. Or gaming too much. After I played 60 fps the first time, it was hard to go back
@__jamiie I've been saying the same thing. The majority of TV's have 60 hz frame rate for a long time. I can understand 1080p to have 120 fps. But how hard would it be to have a 60fps base for the new generation.
The worse is that they'll use 60 fps base / 120 fps tops / "8k" / proper ray tracing to justify sending out a PS5 pro. And this adds to what another guy said, about how the actual frame rate is hidden/masked by all these other engines.
When you add the absurd and out of the blue ps plus increase (where I live extra went up 40%), I'm seriously considering moving to PC for the next generation. Maybe get a second hand fat version of the ps6 to play used copies of the exclusives, if they're worth the effort. With what I've spent on PS5, I should get a fair start at a build.
@General_Disarray I have a big issue with the krypt in MK11 i get extremely sick really fast no idea what this is. But I rather have a lower stable framerate then that jumping around.
@Northern_munkey I get extremely sick with MK11 krypt it's baffling in a few minutes I get nauseated and dizzy.
@Th3solution Were you playing at launch though? Because that's when the issues were really present. Even on resolution mode, the game struggled to maintain 30 FPS, but on the bright side, there was no screen tearing present.
Armored Core and Elden Ring did not launch in the state Jedi did. The way Jedi launched was unacceptable.
@Constable_What I bought it at launch. But I didn’t get it started until about 2 weeks later so the first couple patches were probably already there. Apparently the review build was really bad but a day 0 patch fixed those most egregious issues. Is it possible you bought it physically and we’re playing it without the first patch downloaded? That might explain the discrepancy. The Push Square review described the issues you mentioned but said they resolved after the Day 0 patch.
I know everyone has their own experiences with these games, so I don’t discount yours or others, but I just haven’t seen anything on the order of unplayability, personally. There’s one area of Koboh that’s not even on the mainline path that had really noticeable chugging for a few seconds while I was exploring. It was literally a small stretch high up that one had to climb out of their way to. People were saying areas with water were problematic and I kept watching closely when I was near water and… nothing. 🤷🏻♂️ (I’ve even got all of Scoova Stev’s fishes and storyline. 😄 My favorite character in the game)
It reminds me of Returnal, which I played at launch also, and some people were literally saying it crashed repeatedly and even bricked their console but I had very few problems. So I guess it all depends.
Apparently when the console is running hot, it may start to drop frames. Also, if the database is in need of being rebuilt if will show performance issues. So you might check that out and just run a rebuild and make sure the console is in a well-ventilated area and the fan is clean of dust, etc. But, it might just come down to luck on these things.
@Th3solution I got it digitally with the day zero patch, and immediately had screen tearing issues on Coruscant. Koboh was even worse, in the fort area with all the bandit enemies and droids it was, no hyperbole here, running at around 20 fps with constant stuttering and dips it almost felt like the game was freezing and about to crash, but leaving that area fixed that issue. The quality mode was more stable in that launch period, but still not ideal as the implemented FSR was bugged and made everything look jagged and blurry.
They did say that a day zero patch fixed those issues, but it was still present, noticeable, and unacceptable for a huge number of people that played. If it was better after that review period because of the patch, I can imagine how bad it was before then.
But bear in mind, In my experience, because I work on unfinished games as a career, I know when a game is not finished. I know what to look for, and can see it without even looking for it most of the time. Jedi was not polished. I've tested projects months from release that didn't have as many issues. I could fill a month's worth of my Jira quota in a couple days of playing Jedi at launch, it was so bad in my experience.
That being said, even with how bad it was polished it is still probably my favorite Star Wars game. If it weren't for Starfield, which is surprisingly stable and polished (for a Bethesda game lol) on my PC, I would revist Jedi Survivor for NG+ after this latest patch. I love that game, but just because I love it doesn't make me blind to the poor experience I had with it in those few days during the launch week.
And no, it's got nothing to do with my PS5. If that were the case, literally thousands of users across all platforms must have issues with their hardware. You might not notice them, and that's fine, but they are noticeable, and demonstrably so. Like I said, I work in the industry testing games, and there's no way they didn't have these issues across multiple platforms reported in their Jira... I HIGHLY doubt EA is less stringent in QA protocols than the company I work for, but deadlines need to be met, and if it's not a showstopper bug, you push it under the rug to push the game out.
Polish be damned, CAIP bonus be damned, reputation be damned.
@Constable_What That’s an interesting take. Thanks for the insight. As I’m a member of the rank-and-file average user with no tech background (although a lifelong gamer with probably tens of thousands of hours in front of games over the years), I’m not seeing these games through the eyes of an expert who develops them. Every industry probably suffers from the same fastidious criticism issues amongst people who work in it (chef’s critique of food, author’s critique of written communication, a landscaper’s critique of his neighbor’s lawn… 😄) so it’s probably instinctive to look at a game through a developer QA’s eyes, involuntarily finding the cracks in the foundation rather than letting the experience wash over you as an uninformed player who’s just along for the ride. I can understand that. I’m sorry if I came across pedantic when suggesting you try a database rebuild or cleaning your fan. 😅
So the question in my mind has been, should these complicated games even be targeting 60 fps? Like you said, Starfield is getting a lot of praise and they clearly went for a stable 30 fps, didn’t even try for a performance mode at all, and it appears to have paid off. Other games on PS5 that have tried that approach have been lambasted (Gotham Knights, A Plague Tale Requiem, etc) for launching with no 60 fps option, and I suspect have suffered from the poor press it brought. Elden Ring, Jedi Survivor, Armored Core 6, etc. in contrast have had a mediocre performance mode but seemed to get less overall disdain than if it had never been included. I think I read somewhere that real-world usage statistics show that most gamers opt for a default fidelity mode even when there’s a performance option. I wonder if Starfield’s success will convince developers of these huge complex open-world games that they can just target a stable 30 fps and still have a well-received game. Thoughts?
@Th3solution I think it's important to note, that we should look at each instance on a case by case basis.
Personally? I think in the case of Fromsoft's performance issues, it is considerably overblown. I think Digital Foundry can be a little disingenuous sometimes with their wording. Do AC6 and ER hit their target consistently? Across the entirety of the game, it does. There are dips and instability sometimes, but those games were never unplayable even in the worst instances, and most of the time those games seemed adequately stable, as in the performance has a low chance of interrupting gameplay.
Gotham Knights? Rightly criticized. That game barely looked any better than Arkham Knight a game that released years before it, and the reasoning behind the 30 FPS cap was due to the seamless multiplayer the game requires. Multiplayer that no one asked for. A lack of 60 FPS performance just adds to the game's negative perception.
Plague Tale? I believe that game was only included in the conversation because it launched around the same time as Gotham Knights. A lot of the conversation I remember is why is GK getting crap and not Plague Tale? Simple answer. It's a better game, lack of 60 FPS was the only strike to the game's perception. That being said, that game did have some issues keeping consistent frame pacing, but it had a low chance of interrupting a play session.
Starfield and TOTK are how games targeting 30FPS should launch on a console. It is stable. It almost never dips. The frame pacing prevents hitching, and they are quality experiences that are very fun. Keep, in mind in Starfield's case, that Bethesda has a perception of releasing buggy messes.
Should devs continue to target 60FPS? Yes. Absolutely. These technological benchmarks are important for advancements and innovation in the industry. Just look into the R&D Nvidia is doing in the name of performance! AI assisted DLSS that allows Path Tracing while also keeping a stable framerate is black magic that wouldn't have even be thought about if companies abandoned the idea of pushing frame-rate targets.
Do all games need to do that? Not at all, but just because your project doesn't need that, doesn't mean you shouldn't try and achieve it. Often times targeting an unrealistic goal leads to achieving a goal anyway, and if you can get a stable 30FPS after trying and failing to target a stable 60 that's somewhat of a win.
I don't know where you've read statistics that most gamers opt for fidelity modes, or even the validity of such a study when taking into account the platform spread of users taking said study. I would say that that is dubious at best. Seeing as how most games have "performance" mode as default, and I don't know how many people even bother with their option settings.
You also can't forget that Starfield isn't just on a console, it's also on PC gamepass, and it runs at 60 FPS or higher on the recommended settings. There are CONSIDERABLY more PCs than Xbox Series consoles as well, it'd be interesting to see the margin of people playing on PC versus Xbox, but I'd be willing to take an educated guess and say the split is in favor to PC if only marginally.
@Th3solution my message was too long originally, but I just want to say this as well:
Perspective is key and your perspective as a gamer without QA experience is just as valuable as my perspective. Because you represent the end user, and that end user experiences is very meaningful, and in a lot of ways what really matters, but with that meaning it's also important to note that there's somewhat of a responsibility to hear and listen to outside perspectives. Which I think you're nailing btw
All in all, you aren't wrong. It's your experience with the game, that can't be wrong after all. It's all important data when you look at everyone's perspective objectively.
I think most people would agree an amazing game at 30 FPS is preferred to a mediocre game at 60, and some people (myself included) would prefer an amazing game at higher than 30, but not quite hitting 60!
"Why is Fromsoft immune to criticism?"
@Constable_What I thank you for your kind and informed response. I always like to learn and be enlightened by those who have a greater experience in an area than I. I took a film art class once and it changed the way I watch movies. When I would critique a film’s cinematography or editing, my friends would say that learning the background of filmmaking ruined my ability to enjoy a movie, and in some ways that may be true, but overall it actually enhances enjoyment to be an informed viewer and appreciate nuance that otherwise would go unnoticed.
But you’re correct that at the end of the day the average end-user experience is the key metric and most of the crowd playing these games aren’t on Push Square discussing them or learning about game development. They just sit and play. And that’s why opinions often vary wildly. I like what you said though — each perspective has its own measure of validity.
@Deadlyblack Agreed and said the same thing with Elden Ring.
It's one thing to be releasing a game with new tech and it not running great. Yet Fromsoft, whom I love, just continues to milk a very aged engine and has refused to hire the talent neccessary to fix longstanding performance issues. I don't understand why Fromsoft gets a pass on this so often. I expect the trolls and blind, defend anything fanatical fans to defend them or pretend they don't notice issues or reusing of assets and aging hardware. I expect that just as I expect it with those unwilling to criticize Sony.
Yet its undeniable that Fromsoft have not investing foundational improvements to their tech. Even after major successful releases, they continue to milk that engine, ride their hype, and honestly not even trickle down their success to their staff. It was tolerable/understandable lactogen, but to not have these things ironed out with better hardware, despite minimal visual improvements seems willful. Other, smaller studios have mimicked their design with better visuals and expanded design and done so with better performance.
It's time for them to take some of the boatloads of cash they made from Elden Ring and invest in appreciation for the true workers that made that success happen, and either replace or greatly upgrade their engine.
@Th3solution You're welcome, and thank you for your perspective as well, and for the discussion!
I just have to interrupt here quickly and say the last dozen or so comments above have been some of the most interesting, informative, balanced, positive, respectful, and thought-provoking discussions I’ve seen in a comment thread anywhere in a long time! Thank you to those contributing! 😺
Armored Core 6 might have broke my ps5...
I set it on fps...I played the game literally 2 hours and my ps5 just cut off....note the blue light comes on and then it goes back off. I have tried every trouble shoot..and even spoke with sony..all they said is I have to send it in for $250 and "hope they can fix it".. smh..the system was pass warranty but I never had problems b4...and I really liked AC6...now idk if I will buy a new system or not...anyone else have this problem?
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