Re-Enactment Group Not Satisfied with Ubisoft's Assassin's Creed Shadows Flag Apology

You know for a company that believes in ethnic diversity and celebrating all cultures, Ubisoft sound like they didn't research the source material very well.

They can do more and make Ubisoft remove the game entirely

@ATaco Yeah i'm still angry they had this made up Ezio person beat up the Pope who was using the actual Apple of Eden, Ubi should have done research instead of making up stuff for their historical documentary game series.

@DennisReynolds
You're right, I guess Ubisoft should continue to make a mockery of all the cultures it pretends to cherish and support , since they already have a track record of doing it anyway. Not like how Ghost of Tsushima had fantasy elements but still respected the land and the people that the game is based on. Nah that's just dumb.

@ATaco I mean, this is just a time displaced flag (and not even displaced by that many years). I definitely wouldn't equate that to making a mockery of cultures.

It's like if in a few hundred years someone made something about 1880s USA and included the 50-star flag (in an accompanying art book? Is the flag even in the game?). There's certainly some egg on face given the inaccuracy, but it's really not an offense to the US, past or present. It's just an error.

@ATaco Ooh, this is fun:
https://screenrant.com/ghost-tsushima-real-samurai-history-mongol-japan-island/

Do people realise this is historical FICTION?

Based on, but not ACTUALLY depicting real events.

I mean, it’s not exactly the largest inaccuracy in the series. Margaret Thatcher was a Templar in the games, when in reality she was only controlled by the influence of Satan himself.

@PSme
If it's just fiction, then why do people lose their mind, when you point out Yasuke has probably never been a real Samurai?
Also, has anyone seen that they try to sell Yasuke's katana at the Japan Expo this weekend in France, which turned out to be a copy of Roronoa Zoro's sword from the immense popular Manga/Anime One Piece?

@PSme but why use real historical flags and swords? Create fiction without real world history elements.

@RoomWithaMoose
While my main point that Ubisoft got their facts incorrect doesn't exactly hold water when they didn't claim it's historically accurate, there's still a point to be made that Ubisoft basically decided to use a flag without permission. A flag "which bears the personal heraldry of military leaders who fought at the Battle of Sekigahara" as stated in the article and slapped it on both concept/promotional art and an artbook that is available in a $280 collector's edition for the game. So this is more personal than just, say, putting an American flag up somewhere for a game about the civil war. This would closer to using a regimental flag, which is obviously more personal, and then using it to promote your video game without getting permission from the people to whom that flag is important. That's honestly where it seems like Ubisoft made a big misstep...almost like they just went on Google images and said "Ooh this one looks cool, let's use this." Instead of taking the time to do their research.

Again, it doesn't have to be to the tee factual..but I also never heard of people complain about ghost of tsushima. In fact, two devs that worked on the game were made permanent ambassadors of Tsushima Island. Just goes to show what putting the proper care and respect into your games gets you.

@REALAIS @ATaco the flag was probably just a placeholder in some concept art for internal use only, most likely human error just left it in.

There’s nothing about the game that is real but there is 0 harm using real world items to build that world up.

@ATaco I wouldn't really say they needed to contact reenactors to get permission to use a flag. Like, I get your point, but also no one cares except an insular group of Japanese history geeks (and I use that in an enduring way). It's like, stationary enthusiasts can get offended at a company's use of a color descriptor bring inaccurate. It is not the company's responsibility to get the community's approval to call its ink some color.

I really think your GoT comparisons are off base, though. That game is historically inaccurate, too. And Tsushima's response likely has more to do with the game's strong sense of setting (and the publicity opportunity) than the island being collectively amaze by its representation in-game. I really don't think these scenarios are much comparable, nor that GoT is significantly more culturally respectful than AC:S.

@REALAIS Do you never heard about historical fiction?

Example. It's the same way Capcom did with Onimusha series by used real setting / event and historical figures like Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, etc and then mixed up with fictional events & characters like Samanosuke, Kaede, Jacques Blanc, Fortinbras etc. I mean, Oda Nobunaga never has a demon army & big mech nor he became a demon lord after he died and do time travel to invade modern French with his demon army lol.

@PuppetMaster Fortinbras is real and so is Nobunagas mech from Onimusha 2.

Anyone trying to defend Ubisoft here:

Go to Ubisoft Japan’s YouTube channel. Read all the Japanese comments.

It says everything you need to know as to why Ubisoft messed up here.

But I guess you’ll all continue telling the Japanese how they’re supposed to feel.

Ah, yes. Internet rage over important matters. Makes sense.

@Zenos I wish Onimusha 2 remaster is real 😔

@PuppetMaster so in what fiction type world using flag 20+ years before it was created without any reason other than copying because it looks nice is great fiction?

Multiple times they just copied existant designs without any context and you are bringing up other games whixh as it spunds done it correctly and respectfull, but here you are blindly defending Ubisoft

You don’t mess with Sekigahara veterans!

@REALAIS Great or not it still a fiction, the same as what Capcom did with Onimusha series. And point me where i'm "blindly defending Ubisoft".

Calm down, you're too emotional over a flag.

@PuppetMaster you are swiping anything underneath "fiction"? Its not only flag.

As a participant in the Battle of Sekigahara, I find this very offensive and hope Ubisoft buries the collector editions in the desert.

@REALAIS This news about a flag and no i didn't swip anything underneath "fiction" but i'm not genius enough to not understand what "historical fiction" is.

Sounds like the flag incident in Spiderman 2.

@DennisReynolds your comment is gold. Ubi have been doing alternative fantastical versions of history since the very first AC, but now everyone wants to be offended because Japan.

Even Japanese companies alter history. Nioh has a bunch of alterations even with Yasuke and nobody says anything. Which is good because I love Nioh.

@DennisReynolds one of your worse takes my man! We're talking multi billion dollar/franc/whatever company here.
They can make do.

But whatever, eff Ubisoft anyways lol

It's fun how people try to hide their racism under the excuse of "historical accuracy and facts" especially on an assassin's creed game it just makes you look even more racist

"A work of fiction based on historical events" is something that appears at the start of every game... No one cared when Ezio beat up a pope who had a magic staff, no one cared about George Washington getting super powers... But a black guy as a main character? Time to go mental and what's funny is Japan are not angry over Yasuke (except the far right racists) because Yasuke has been in many movies and games made by Japanese companies such as the game Nioh it's just false hatred by online racists

@ThaBEN
‘If it's just fiction, then why do people lose their mind’

Because people get offended soooo easily today about insignificant little details and blow them way of proportion. Welcome to 21st century life.

@REALAIS lots of tv series, movies, books use real world attributes but it’s still fiction.

Most fiction is based on the known and changed to make the story.

@ATaco it's some random digital artist error, not ubisoft as a corporation (they've made much bigger and many more real world errors that warrant articles rather than this low grade woopsie)

I imagine they won't be hiring the artist again as they clearly just Googled and half arsed it like an AI would, however 😅

This is hilarious.

I do kind of sympathise with Ubisoft a bit. But only a tiny bit.

They played stupid games and won stupid prizes.

Bored of the arguments about their character choices etc and can’t even be bothered to muster an opinion one way or another on that anymore.

I can only say when you start making obvious decisions stemming from your political ideology, you must expect that you will annoy half the customer base who will push back. They will start going over everything with a fine tooth comb to get you.

I think things are getting petty, as yeah it’s a dumb mistake but come on, it’s no real harm. However if you push an ideology that deems such oversights to be a serious harm, you better get your ducks in a row first.

Who cares about a re-enactment group freaking out over the equivalent of a clerical error? There are actual real problems on this planet you know?

@ATaco Dude its just a flag and a minor mistake. An artist probably found the flag on google images thought it looked cool and added it.

@Kienda Terrible advice. Those comments range from insanely nitpicking about accuracy (one of them criticized the game for having civilians around town when they should've been too busy working) to stupid (several of them criticized the USA for the game even though it is not American) to racist (lotta people criticizing the game's violence and saying it wasn't normal for Japan, BUT very normal for France!).

Also a lotta people extremely bothered by a black man killing Japanese people. Which, like... I guess. Isn't it a black, JAPANESE man killing Japanese people because he's in Japan? Seems a little racist to not accept Yasuke as being Japanese and to side with the presumable villain's henchmen he's fighting just because of skin color. Also a lot of comments about how villagers should be afraid of him because he's big, violent, and a different skin color...

Which is all to say that just because they're Japanese, that doesn't mean they have the best takes. There's a lot of idiots, racists, and trolls in every country. It's like holding a racist American's opinion of Django Unchained as the gold standard.

I did see some thoughts that I sympathized with (once I saw past their nonsensical rage). Quite a few people are bummed that a Japanese setting doesn't star a traditionally Japanese person (ignoring that Yasuke is Japanese... And that there's another protagonist that's ethically Japanese). And even besides that, it's not like they aren't free to feel the way they feel. But that doesn't mean they're right just because they're Japanese.

@PerpetualBoredom No i'm pointing out hypocrisy. No one cared when Ubi twisted historical events and facts before Shadows, its only now we have a black lead that its suddenly an issue. Valhalla really downplayed how vile the Vikings actually were yet no one cared. Origins rewrote what happened to Cleo and no one cared. Syndicate completely changed who Jack The Ripper was and why he done what he done and no one cared. A black samurai though? Well racism makes them care all of a sudden.

@Kienda Yeah Youtube comments are really super credible.

@JohntheRaptor samurai Warriors 5 plays extremely loosely with the lives of real people as well.

Incidentally that games was how I learned Yasuke existed.

@RoomWithaMoose “
“Also a lotta people extremely bothered by a black man killing Japanese people. Which, like... I guess. Isn't it a black, JAPANESE man killing Japanese people because he's in Japan? Seems a little racist to not accept Yasuke as being Japanese”

Yasuke was not Japanese, he went to Japan in service of a missionary and has a documented history in Japan of less than three years. While historical information on him is limited We know more about Yasuke than Nobunaga’s proper wife, even a basic search would have shown he wasn’t Japanese. Yasuke was a name given to him by Nobunaga.

It’s easy to see why Ubisoft would use Yasuke, there is enough information to use him but a blank canvas to go nuts with fictional history.

On the other hand, there is an argument that Yasuke is more of a footnote in history and little reason to make him a main character instead of creating an original one. Not that people have refrained from making him the central subject in foreign adaptations, Netflix made an entire series

It’s very easy to make this about racism when it doesn’t need to be.

@PuppetMaster Yeah I was very disappointed they didn't get round to remasters of Oni 2 and 3.

@RoomWithaMoose "I mean, this is just a time displaced flag (and not even displaced by that many years). I definitely wouldn't equate that to making a mockery of cultures."

Wether it''s a mockery of culture or not, waving away the number of years only serves to undermine the context of the period the game is set and the battle for which the flag was created. Seismic events in Japan's history as a nation occurred during those 21 years and while its easy to dismiss a flag as a small minor oversight, in its historical context this is a big blunder and dismissing that shows a lack of respect to history.

Even if this flag was actually from the time and not a modern interpretation, it is still a bad look. I can understand how Ubisoft would make such a mistake given the task of making a game based in a history and culture you don't have direct or extensive knowledge of and have to take bits and pieces from. That said, people replying should probably learn themselves before either taking them to task or defending them. I can understand people not knowing this stuff, but I'm reading a lot of comments where people are trying to make a point without bothering to educate themselves before hand and getting it very wrong.

@LowDefAl He still lived a life in Japan. Regardless of the time spent there, I think you can call an immigrant a citizen of the country they immigrated to. (That might be a controversial statement. But... ehh.)

I'll still admit, given the name, I thought he at least spent most of his life in Japan. So that was still a mistake on my end. But I still stand by everything I said. I would consider him, to some extent, a Japanese man living in Japan. And if Ubisoft does reimagine him as a long-term Japanese citizen, historical inaccuracy aside (it is still an explicit work of fiction, like all Assassin's Creed games. So I'm in the camp that creative liberties are fine), the nationality of the real Yasuke is more moot in the context discussed.

And while I appreciate historical context, I would not use that as justification for some of the more inflammatory comments I read through.

Was the flag created by that group or was it from the 1500s?

@LowDefAl See, the issue is that this isn't about historical inaccuracy. Assassin's Creed is very openly historical fiction. So many are ignoring how Ezio had a fist fight with the Pope over the Apple of Truth as early as ACII. Despite people defending this game frequently bringing it up. It's not irrelevant.

Ghost of Tsushima, often comparatively claimed to be the respectful one, also has historical inaccuracies. Openly so, as well. Was that a problem with anyone? No. Samurai Champloo imagines a hip-hop samurai. Was that a problem? No. Even though I'm far from an expert on Japanese history, I've known the pop culture idea of a samurai is almost nothing like the real thing since I was a child. That includes both Western and Japanese depictions. Has that been seen as problematic? I think I've heard some murmurings of it, but generally it doesn't seem to be a problem.

So then what's with problem with Shadows? I have my own thoughts, but let me genuinely ask you — or anyone else reading this: what's the problem with Assassin's Creed Shadows? Given that the majority of samurai content is fictitious in nature, I really don't think historical inaccuracy is a good answer. And, even to that end, people can correct the game's historical depictions without being so hostile. Yet many are extremely hostile. So what else could possibly be the problem?

@DennisReynolds it’s a snapshot of the bigger picture.

I was just giving an example of people can do to get a taste.

@Kienda What big picture? YT comments are largely made up of bots now, they are not credible and are easily one of the worst ways to see peoples thoughts.

Fun fact Shadows has fantastic pre-order numbers and it also has great pre-order numbers in Japan. Right there is the big picture not chuds and bots on Youtube crying over things they don't really care about on Youtube comment sections.

@Savage_Joe I am also not a fan of free speech. High five!

@RoomWithaMoose I’m really sorry, but I think you probably just might not realise how different Japanese culture is to the West.

You are calling their views ‘racist’ because they are resistant to change. This is most obvious when you claim that Yasuke (a Black immigrant) ‘is Japanese.’

You are applying Western values to a different culture. My family is mixed/Asian/immigrant but it doesn’t matter what colour our skin is, we are also British.

In Japan today there are White/Black/Asian people born and raised in Japan to who speak Japanese as their first language and are culturally Japanese and yet still don’t consider themselves Japanese and would not be considered Japanese by the Japanese.

This isn’t racism (although some might see it that way and clearly there is racism in Japan) but rather Japanese people on the whole view Japanese people as people who are ethnically Japanese not culturally. Although they are welcoming to others.

There is also a strong emphasis on preserving their culture and heritage. Which is basically why Ubisoft is seen as missing the mark.

@DennisReynolds well, obviously it’s not a completely accurate representation.

But to pretend all the comments mean nothing is also not reality.

@Kienda When a comment section makes the average IGN comment section look sane then i will treat it as worthless. Look Japanese chuds can cry all they like over a black lead (funny how Nioh gets a pass with a white lead) but end of the day Ubi has already made a fair amount from them in pre-orders, fact is most over there just don't and are excited for it as the numbers show.

Good Unisoft deserve what they get clearly didn't do enough research and clearly tried to fill the book with what they could to make a profit wether it was one thing. They could have contacted the group for advice and this may not have happened

@Kienda I'm incredibly well aware of the culture towards gaijin in Japan. See, I even know the word for it.

That doesn't mean it's okay. That doesn't mean it's not racist. And the xenophobic status quo does not mean the entire country feels that way.

I'm also part Japanese — since we're bringing that up (?). And, having never lived in Japan, I feel a hell of a lot less Japanese than a hypothetical African that's lived there for a few years.

@RoomWithaMoose well, to claim a Black African is Japanese isn’t showing you understand Japanese culture (no offence). That’s not a minority view in Japan (looking aside from AC:Shadows), that’s a very common viewpoint.

Does that make it racist? Possibly. Xenophobic might be a more accurate. Or maybe they just have a different viewpoint.

And if you want to go down that route then 80% of the world’s population is racist and xenophobic, because there are a lot of cultures that clearly treat foreigners differently and put people of different colours and cultures into boxes.

It’s a big world out there and Western values are the minority, unfortunately.

@RoomWithaMoose @DennisReynolds

By the way, I just wanted to point out. I don’t think the main problem with the game is the fact it has a Black lead.

The biggest problem is the team making the game simply copy and pasted stuff from museums, pictures, and apparently from Manga and enactment groups, and had no real knowledge about the subject they were meant to be honouring, and it shows. Ubisoft could even face court cases over this stuff.

It’s just a sad state of affairs all round and takes away from what the game could and should have been.

@Kienda I'm just saying I personally consider someone more Japanese than me in that case. I'm not saying they factually are... Even though they kinda are. But that's in the eyes of the beholder. Hell, it's not like most Japanese would embrace me as Japanese of they saw me, as my black heritage is definitely more pronounced.

And I know a lot of cultures are xenophobic (and racist — there's barely a difference between the two). I don't know why you have a problem with Western philosophies of 'not being racist' (a lot of people in the West are ALSO racist, actually). That seems like more of a problem to me than respecting other cultures' right to be racist at their discretion.

I want an apology for how bland AC Mirage was.

@RoomWithaMoose I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m just saying that there is a clash of cultures that happens and trying to insert Western values into another culture doesn’t always work.

Ubisoft claim they are honouring a heritage, but they’ve misunderstood the culture entirely. They haven’t done their research and they’ve just copy and pasted from various places - even bought a One Piece replica sword off Amazon and claimed it as the replica of Yasuke’s sword.

It’s just shoddy, poor quality work from a team who are out of their depth.

But when you’re supposed to honour a culture and a growing number of that culture is offended. I will tend to defend that culture (especially as I have a vested interest in Japan). Not because I agree with everything, but because I think it’s wrong for others to talk down to them or tell them how they are supposed to feel.

And if you read my original comment, all I said was to see what the Japanese feel about this.

1st world problems 😂

@DennisReynolds did they down play the Vikings? Are you sure?

You literally storm into innocent settlements where peasants who work the fields are just trying to get by.

You kill defenders, burn all the buildings and steal their stuff.

What are you looking for here? Are you/gamers not able to form your own judgment?

Or do Ubisoft have to get He-Man to appear, break the fourth wall, and give He-Man’s Message about how looting and pillaging are bad?

Because we wouldn’t figure that out unless he’d told us?

More free advertising for Shadows. I wonder why Ghost of Tsushima didn’t get attacked for all its historical inaccuracies.

@CrashBandicoat Did you even play Valhalla? Eivor and her crew are very much portrayed as heroes and noble people. Anyway you're missing the point, i'm saying Ubi will play fast and loose with history so it suits the game they're making.

Now if they do change this funny enough i could see a small delay maybe if a month or so if they’re really forced to.

@DennisReynolds do you think Vikings thought they were the bad guys when they were raiding and pillaging villages?

Let's be honest, in any conflict no one believes they are on the side of the baddies. As is explored in the famous "Hans, are we the baddies?" comedy sketch.

The game portrays it from the Viking's perspective, and Ubisoft treated you like an adult and expected you to draw your own conclusions.

I felt uncomfortable and bad whilst participating in those raids.

Didn't you? Or did you want Ubisoft to tell you to feel bad?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Ubisoft are historians or anything. They use a lot of artistic licence in their portrayals of history.

Everyone will have a tolerance for that.

I like the films Young Guns (1 & 2) and The Untouchables. They are clearly not remotely accurate and extremely loosely based on real events.

Those liberties are taken to create a fun story. Other properties instead bludgeon you with what are obvious contemporary political messaging, and that is where some people feel it crosses a line.

For me, an inaccurate flag, chinese buildings and other errors that people have pointed out, are just petty and don't really cause me to lose my suspension of disbelief.

That's just me though. A Japanese gamer might find such errors more obvious.

@CrashBandicoat I swear people never actually read and always miss the freaking point.

@DennisReynolds people not agreeing with your point, is not the same as people missing your point.

I got your point, but I think that your point is wrong.

I took the time to explain to you why I thought you were wrong.

The second half of my post covered "fast and loose with history", and why people are still criticising Ubisoft and not giving them a pass, where as they'd have no issue giving Young Guns a pass.

There is nuance to this.

@CrashBandicoat Dude you took one sentence i typed and then removed the context around it and then clearly missed the point i made.

AC is not a history reenactment nor is it fact. They like basing the games around key events in history and they like using real historical but Ubi will happily change things to suit the plot of the game they're making, every single AC has taking liberties with history and historical figures and no one has cared its only now a black historical man has now been explicitly made a samurai that historical accuracy in AC is now super important. Its racism pure and simple, if Ubi had William Adams as the lead instead no one would care.

@Ms13
I'm actually Hispanic and I don't see how it's a racial slur. It's food.

@Ms13
Well ok then.

Japan should sue Ubisoft for changing it’s history and culture

@IamJT the game is going to flop

@KillerBoy Has an Assassin’s Creed game ever flopped? I doubt this one will regardless. I have yet to play one myself but I think the last two were massive sellers.

@IamJT just because the last 2 did well doesn’t mean this new one will. One of the main protagonist, in this new game isn’t even an assassins lmao

@KillerBoy I don’t think the main character in the last one was an Assassin either 🤣 I don’t think it matters. The series has a built in audience at this point. I do think it will sell less than the last two though.