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The reaction to the PS5 Pro’s announcement bordered on apocalyptic. While system architect Mark Cerny did a decent job of introducing the device, the $700/£700 price point triggered an obscene backlash. At the time, just 9.7% of you said you would pre-order the console in a Push Square poll. That’s a dire result for a website filled with enthusiasts.
Since then, opinion does appear to have softened, however. Make no mistake, there’s still a vocal contingent who don’t believe there’s a point to the platform, but in the aftermath of pre-orders going live, 39% say they have plumped up for the platform. That’s quite a dramatic swing when compared to the initial reaction.
It’s worth noting that the majority (44.4%) still don’t plan on purchasing the upgrade, but even those holding out until a later date have increased. In our announcement aftermath poll, just 6.6% said they’d consider picking up a PS5 Pro beyond launch – whereas 15.7% now say they’re either saving or waiting to get the system down the line.
So, what’s changed? Well, we’ve started to see real-world analysis of the console from experts like Digital Foundry, who’ve described the device as a “good investment”. Some of the improvements to games like Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth have proven dramatic, and more and more software is being confirmed to support the device.
The PS5 Pro is still undeniably expensive, and many still don’t feel like it’s doing enough to justify its price. But the sentiment is slowly softening, and people are gradually coming around to the idea. Do we think it’s going to set the world alight at $700/£700? No, it’s simply too expensive – but that initial wave of negativity does appear to have died down for now.
[source News: Poll: Are You Sold on PS5 Pro?, via News: Poll: Did You Pre-Order a PS5 Pro?]
Comments 197
FOMO usually wins out in the end.
I think the recent DF video helped establish the value of the machine, even though it does seem pricey in console-specific terms. I haven’t pre-ordered one myself… but I’m starting to feel the FOMO for sure. I might well jump on board by Christmas.
Yeah fans that were acting tough like they could fight fomo but caved in eventually. 😆
I wouldn't say I'm coming round to it, I still think it's far too expensive for what it is, and I won't be convinced otherwise.
However what I have done is to just move on and accept that it's simply not for me and that I'm probably not part of the targeted audience.
To those that have ordered one, I wish you all the best with it
At this price and the missing parts, it is not worth it.
But if people have money to burn it is their decision
Also, a reminder that my negativity will not die down
I'm shocked.
You know how many Youtubers and so called journalists pre ordered a PS5 Pro after crapping on it non stop for the last 3 weeks?
Look up Dreamcastguy and Destin, lol.
Because nowadays everything is a dumb knee jerk reaction. And sites like this thrive on it so they feed it to their readers. Clicks, all for the clicks.
I said it before somewhere, we who visit sites are the minority by far.
Me personally will wait for ps6. I’m happy with my standard ps5
Yeah, no.
Saving up for a UW monitor for my PC and the Switch 2.
I’m going to pass and continue deluding myself that this isn’t a precedent for console pricing going forward. I’m sure it’s cool for tech enthusiasts, but I can’t justify dropping a month’s rent on a PlayStation.
Fans have never had a problem with the Pro existing. The majority of complaints come from people who aren't fans and aren't going to buy the Pro, and people who never will anyway. And they are the ones who leave the most comments on social media, the complainers.
Actually, all those memes and jokes are helping selling the PS5 Pro.
The people complaining the loudest were never going to buy it anyway.
I don't think anything changed. People always say stuff they don't really mean. Just look at call of duty
not that i hate PS5 Pro or anything.
i like the design and all.
i just dont have the money.
and was never fan of PC Gaming.
Sony and Nintendo (Sega Megadrive too). always been my childhood family for gaming till i die..
so i want to own PS5 Pro if i can get it later on.
I think the investment in this for the 3-4 years before it is replaced by the PS6 don't really justify the outlay for me. The second hand market for these will be weak unless the cost of the PS6 is ridiculous and not backwards compatible.
@Zuljaras Best comment. People are so used to getting voluntarily ripped off nowadays. Oh well, it's their money to burn.
It's still a collosally low percentage when you factor in the people reading articles on here and voting in these polls are the most enthusiastic customers Sony have, you'd expect it to be higher.
Pro versions are always for a niche audience though and this will be no different. most people won't have a clue what the differences are between the two if you stuck them side by side even if you tell them and will stick with the base console throughout, I'm one of them, had a base ps4 all the way through and intend on doing the same this gen, especially as I only got my ps5 this year but sony obviously forecast enough interest in it to be worthwhile to do it so what's there to complain about?
Those that want minimal improvements for the extra cost will get it and the rest of us will stay as we are and everybody is happy.
@TimeDelayedGamer true, but personally for me I'm not missing out on much tho (again I already own a ps5) I don't see the need for me to splash on the pro variant
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the success of a product relies heavily on how it's being perceived. I bought a ps portal after having no intention to (I'm having blast, btw). I'm considering a PS5pro mainly for VR games. We're influenced by others more than most of us care to admit.
@Al3 q
I will your argument out. Consoles are not more expensive.
I just looked up a graphics card which PC gamers treat like 'their' console:
GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 4090 AORUS WaterForce Xtreme - 24GB GDDR6X RAM
The cost? 2600 USD. You need a lot more components to finish that console - maybe another 1000 USD.
Anyways, the funny thing is that I have no real idea if the upgrade would be noticeable on my TV.
It is a TCL 55' 780 QLED with only 60 Hz and no VRR. That is my biggest question along with how long for PS6? Unless I get help figuring out these things, I will just be perfectly happy with the PS5.
I have entered a competition to buy the PS5 Pro 30th Ann. Edition, though. But that is because that thing is going to be incredibly valuable if they never make more.
I knew this would happen! It was the same with Concord. Everyone hated it when it was announced, but when it was released everyone changed their tune and loved it!
The only 5 pro I wanted was the 30th Anniversary edition because I pre ordered the original PlayStation back in 1994. But those were rare to preorder in Canada. And probably snatched up by the scalpers. But I'm happy to keep using the PS5.
When I see stuff like this, I'm always reminded of the towel experiment that Robert Chialdini and Noah Goldstein did. Back in the mid-2000s (before COVID and hotels cleaning your rooms less and less often) they teamed up with an undisclosed national hotel chain to see if they could alter the towel reusage rate of guests.
They tried 2 different methods. The first one was to write an environmental message with the towels. Like reusing the towels conserves water and energy and is an environmentally conscious choice.
The second was to write a social norms message saying that the majority of guests that stay in our hotels, reuse their towels.
They found that the environmental message led to about 35% towel reusage among guests. The social norms message led to about 45% towel reusage, meaning that people were more likely to follow a behavior that they believe others are doing aka social proof.
Similar experiment was done by the Opower company which works with multiple utility companies to give customers feedback on energy usage. When they informed customers that they were using more energy than their neighbors, the customers were more likely to decrease their energy consumption. The result was even bigger when they used things like emojis (smiley face, neutral, sad, etc.)
I've noticed this rampant in the gaming community. But it's our human nature in general. People just jump on bandwagons. They hate on something just because others are hating on it without experiencing it first hand. (Concord for example). Then they love something because others are loving it, they want social proof. It's just human nature. That's why we're so easily swayed to one side or the other.
So if I'm reading this correctly, 44% of people who answered a poll on a PLAYSTATION FANSITE do not plan to buy it?
That is a colossal number. That is like 44% of people on a Manchester United fansite planning not to buy a ticket. Something has gone seriously wrong somewhere.
Hardcore Sony fans were going to buy this no matter what,the general public still doesn’t like it
@Bentleyma 😂
It is indeed very expensive. I preordered one, but am on the fence whether I’ll ultimately keep that order. The prospect of spending another $80+tax on the disc drive to play my huge library of physical games, and worse yet, $30+tax just to stand the damn thing upright, is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. So yeah, a bit torn still…
I owned a PS4 Pro a while back though and was pretty happy with it. More announced games will help. Hoping to hear names like Returnal, Dead Space, Armored Core, Resident Evil, and Silent Hill 2 announced soon. Horror games will really benefit from that boost in ray tracing while maintaining a solid framerate. That’ll definitely win me over!
@ear_wig
RE8 and 4 Remake are confirmed to have Pro patches.
@TheTony316 Nice! Hoping for 2 and 3 remakes to get em too. I’m sure they will. The ray tracing on those games looks beautiful but really drags down the frame rate.
If I had the money for a pro (which I don’t) I’d rather buy a new TV. Mine is over 10 years old and the screen is blotchy 😮💨
It’s a ScalperBox, it’s going to sell like crazy. As for actual things to play though…
That Anime character in the picture is adorable.
@TimeDelayedGamer Absolutely this. Saw all the news articles about it and how they're selling like hot cakes and I succumbed like a wet sock
The latest DF hands on test is an interesting read: “[…] if you're already enjoying games in their 30fps quality modes, then the difference is less obvious. Image quality is already pretty good on the base consoles, especially at a normal viewing distance from a 4K screen, and you're not going to see a huge visual disparity in these sorts of modes unless the developers can really layer on the RT effects. Similarly, if the games that you play in performance modes look fine to you - perhaps they're running at 1440p 60fps - then again, you may not get much of an advantage from PS5 Pro.” It also notes there is a sizeable number of games that run better on pro, but are not tranformatively better given the CPU limitations. Personally, I’m still happy to wait for PS6 and enjoy a bigger generational leap.
@TheTony316 They do all the negative for clicks and views and then go out and buy one DreamcastGuy is annoying as
So on current trajectory it’ll beat the equivalent PS4-PS4 Pro last gen ratio of 80/20 share
Some folks just can't help themselves. I'm still firmly in the not interested camp. But at the end of the day we choose what is worth it and what is not for ourselves. $700 for a few extra hair strands on Tifa's head is borderline insane to me but if someone really wants it and can afford it? Go for it.
I'll save my my $700 for a PS6. With the way things are looking I'm going to need it.
@Al3 fully agree for pc's you only get a "vastely" more poweful graphics card and cpu every year, new cpu sockets and ram types every couple of yours. A PC You only buy once and then You can enjoy it for the next ... 3 years without having to fear that it is not powerful enough to run the newest stuff. The 4 year upgrade cycle of consoles is indeed insane ... in particular since it is optional.
I can soften the cost by $330.00 by trading in my PS5. When PS6 comes out I will repeat the cycle to save by trading in the PS5 pro in 4 years. Backwards compatibility allows one the to play all the games they own after trading in the PS5 console. The PS5 PRO will cost me $470 with disc drive and stand. That's not that bad of a deal for 4 years on a updated console..
$700 for a machine without a Blu-ray drive is stupid.
I’ll live with my peasant class PS5.
I won't be getting one day one, but I'll probably end up getting one next year. It is a bit pricey, but for a pc that runs all the games at the same quality you would be looking at over a grand. And you would probably still need to upgrade again before the PS6 comes out
@Korgon in principle a platform holder has an interest to have a more or less speedy generational shift at least at the beginning to make the platform interesting enough for developers and revenue from game sales on the new platform relevant. The optional intermediate upgrade on the other hand is not very important to grow the platform. In that sense the ps6 has to be more priced in line with what the general consumer is willing to spend, and a pro model has to be in line with concurrent products (in this case PC).
Though it is possible if inflation is not improving that it will be simply impossible to offer in 2028 a console, which looks like an upgrade over the ps5pro, but is cheaper.
@MKD88 really interesting! Thanks for sharing.
@gaston
Yeah inflation is really the thing I'm most worried about. After all this is the first generation that has had console prices only go higher, not lower. It doesn't look good but hopefully I'm wrong.
$700 for a general consumer focused product is hard to imagine.
If people are disappointed with the graphical upgrade / price for Pro, they may well be far more disappointed with PS6's graphical upgrade and/or price - well, unless we are looking at 2029
checking smyths its 800e for the console and 120e for the disk tray attachement. thats almost 1k. and if i had that kind of money to burn I would just buy a 4080super and finish my pc build.
I knew the ps5 pro was going to sell well ever since people started losing their marbles of a plastic grey case and controller design for the ps1 30th anniversary edition. brainwashing at its finest.
same people here complaining about lack of new games and too much remasters and remakes ended up being excited for horizon zero dawn getting a new paint job.
and you wonder why sony are they way they are this generation. XD
Sony should make a little check to Digital Foundry, because they are the ones who sold me the machine. Not the Mark Cerny show.
Waiting on the PS6 Pro.....🙃
I just hope the PS6 isn't this expensive.
Still gonna have to pass on it.
I'm still not sold on the regular PS5, so I can't imagine buying the Pro. Still happy with my OG PS4 and nothing this gen feels like I'm missing out.
I think both xbox and playstation wish they had set higher prices at the 2020 launch, they were completely sold out for a couple years and it would have meant more profit and slightly lower demand.
I think this is a bit of a test on their part and I personally don't think the PS5 Pro will sell well until they drop the price probably next year or the year after.
But I think they believe they might as well do what they did with the PSVR2, start high and drop when they see a big sales decline
@Frmknst I’m not really bothered about seeing a few more pixels 😂
Eh. It was mostly folks who are not the target audience of the PS5 Pro being loud and complaining and physical media fans in existential crisis mode. Those of us who are the target audience and are logical enough to understand the price makes sense will either buy the PS5 Pro if they want or they won't. It is simply another option on the market for those that want their games to play better and there's nothing wrong with that.
Realistically, if I was living in my parents house and gaming as my only pastime and had little financial worry, I’d have a big, fancy TV and definitely would’ve preordered the PS5 Pro.
But as it is, that I’m in my 30s with a family, mortgage, two cars, etc, I have other things to accumulate debt for. At this point, I regret buying an Xbox this generation because it just sort of collects dust. Not throwing shade on Xbox because I did like the brand in the past, but I haven’t used mine in almost a year now. Gaming is getting to be a more and more expensive hobby with continued inflation, so I’m grateful for what I have because I’d struggle to buy a base PS5 right now.
When future games (MHW, GTA6) start running badly on base PS5, the PRO will be a godsend.
Nah the whole internet was laughing with memes, remember?
With today prices £700 for a console is not a big deal. My GPU costed 2x more and it was almost two years ago.
I wonder how many people here who said they're ditching Sony altogether and switching to Nintendo (because they actually care about their users... 🤭) followed through.
They’re still available to pre-order, right? Not exactly flying off the shelves. PS5 pre-orders closed within a few hours due to demand. There’s a lot of people that were happy to upgrade to the PS4 pro from the base machine that aren’t doing so for PS5 pro, and an awful lot more that haven’t yet transitioned to PS5 that won’t be doing so with pro.
This isn’t going to sell a lot of units and certainly won’t surpass the PS4 pro’s mediocre sales numbers. If Xbox have taught us anything, it’s that consoles with lower install bases aren’t supported as well as those with the highest. PS4 pro wasn’t particularly well supported outside of first party, I don’t expect PS5 pro to be any different.
Curiously did pushsquare exist at the time of PS4 pro’s launch, and if so did they run a similar poll regarding buying intent? The results, I’m sure, would be far more positive than those for PS5 pro.
I think hands on has helped with reviewer's telling how it is on youtube/the web.
It really was a mistake for these people to cave into FOMO because now Sony know that people will pay this price and we know that the PS6 will be £700 or possibly higher as seems to be the case with each new generation and probably with no disk drive
And now that Microsoft are not really focused on console wars this means Sony has a monopoly on the console market which means everything will get more expensive with them being unchecked
To be honest I've not even been able to justify my base PS5 purchase, only played about 4 exclusives on it and non of them really pushed the console to its limits
It was probably a combination of the anniversary edition and the Digital Foundry review that changed some people's opinions. I still think it's too much though for what you get. I wouldn't be the target audience for this however and hope those that did purchase one get plenty of enjoyment from it.
It's sad that the base ps5 can't expand It's fanbase very fast so they need the pro models for the same people to double dip and make more money.
The poll seems about right, being a Playstation fan website I can see polls being a bit lower for buying one with the avg. Crowd.
I won't be buying one. Ps5 is suiting my needs. I think I'm good until mid ps6 cycle as long as games keep coming for base ps5.
@Pranwell well I don't see the point of wasting money on a console that will only be used for a bunch of remasters and maybe one or two first party titles, I also don't agree with Sony's pricing and I know if this console sells well the next console will have a price increase, I have played all the games they are remastering so that isn't worth me buying the PS5 Pro for, the only upcoming game from Sony I care about is the Wolverine game
I wouldn't say fans are coming around. I'm certainly not. Everyone knew people were going to buy the thing. And the critics probably don't feel passionate enough to constantly lambast the thing.
Is there really some people thinking this will not set a precedent for next generation?
It absolutely will even if it ain’t successful, there’s no way a PS6 comes out costing less than a PS5 Pro and given that they didn’t even bother to include the disc drive in the 30th anniversary bundle it’s now a given that PS6 won’t have a disc drive either.
In my country the normal Pro ended up costing more than the equivalent to $1000 USD, there’s just no f**king way I spend that much on a console that still requires a subscription to play online, that doesn’t sell digital games outside of their own store, that keeps raising prices without justification, I’d rather skip it and save up for a PC next generation.
Good thing I'm not a fan
It's expensive, yes. Doesn't necessarily offer great value, true. But so what? Same can be said about phones, computers, cars, jewellery, clothes and, well, pretty much anything.
Be a pretty miserable existence if we didn't have the choice. Lot of people just need to get over themselves.
Celebrate what we have in common FFS.
@IOI It won't because it's not a mass-market product. They don't have to sell at a loss because they aren't trying to loss-lead with it. PS6 will be mass-market and will be priced to sell.
@WizzNL why are people so worried about ps6 when its still 4 or 5 years away from coming out? we still have plenty of things to look forward to on the ps5 till then.
I just don’t have any strong feelings toward it. I think it’s fine for those who want it and would enjoy the enhancements, but personally, the standard PS5 is just fine for my needs. Maybe I’ll feel the pull to get one later on, who knows, but right now I’m content.
@Ravix 67% convinced this is what intimated people inti buying a pro
@Zuljaras wow epic post and ******* myself laughing 🤡
For me, everything worked out. I sold my iPhone that I was planning on doing for 400 and traded in my PS5 for $300 cash. The only thing I spent was $85 for the disc drive. If the stars didn't align, I would've waited longer to see it in action and better reviewed once it's out in the open.
For a technological luxury item it's not expensive. People are kneejerk overreacting as always.
Yes £700 is a lot of money but for some it's nothing, people spend the same as that (if not more) on a new mobile phone every two years. Then there's the fact you don't have to pay that money upfront, with Klarna, Clearpay and PayPal you can spread payments monthly. So I don't see the price having an big impact on its sales.
@EfYI
Re your question about your TV, and seeing the difference.
I suppose this will come down to whether you can see the issues at present - im not trying to be rude, just practical.
Not having VRR means you are more susceptible to framerate drops sub 60fps down to 48fps (where VRR stops working anyway), the question is do you see them now? Peoples sensitivity to sub 60 varies - i cannot tolerate framerate issues, or much lower than 60 (40fps looks like an unplayable slideshow to me), but others can tolerate 30fps quality modes.
If you see performance mode framerate drops in games now, and it troubles you, then the Pro should help, providing the issue isnt CPU based (and even then it may help a little bit based on rumoured specs).
I suspect that games on base console will start to be less well optimised here, but this is guesswork - eg devs may start to take the line that those who care the most, will have bought Pros, or start to target pro more (some already appear to be targetting top spec PC eg BMWukon).
If you only want 30fps, then i would go with the DF advice of dont bother with Pro.
In terms of image quality, I suppose the question is do you see performance mode image quality as poor or blurry (when compared with quality modes). If so, then you will likely see a difference.
As i have said, i need 60fps, so always play performance modes (and own a 120hz TV to get the extra fps where available). No solid 60fps mode means I dont buy no matter how good the game. But, i usually see a decent difference in visual quality between the 2 modes when i look out of interest, and think it would be much better if the performance mode retained its framerate and smootheness but looked like the quality mode - Pro when implemented should close or significantly improve that gap.
Ray tracing - not even going to attempt this one, as it will vary between games. Some will add to 60fps modes with varying success, others will improve quality modes (so pointless for me).
There is some decent footage on DF - the hour long video they posted midweek. I thought the footage they showed of Horizon and FF7 Rebirth to be quite telling, among others.
Hope this helped in some way.
Why would you wait and buy this later?! Prices probably won’t drop, and we’ll be that much closer to the PS6 release in a couple of years.
If money were no object, sure.
It feels like the console we should have got. Instead of the scam we were sold. The one where we have a console that cant play the games for it well. (MOSTLY)
Absolutely down and pre order locked in. I want the best possible experience for my games that I can get.. without buying a pc 👍
@ButterySmooth30FPS Current Sony doesn’t seem to be willing to sell anything at a loss (for investing billions into the failed live-service strategy), if they couldn’t price down this thing when they only upgraded the GPU just imagine next generation as they upgrade all the internals, plus now Xbox seems to be not competing anymore.
This even feels like low key preparing us for the next-generation pricing tbh…
If I can trade my PS5 and get the Pro for $300 net - I'm in.
@Zuljaras Aye, to each their own as you say. Normally, had I skipped the gifting of my PS5 Slim, I'd weigh the pros and cons of a Pro system. To me, it's just not that impressive of an upgrade. As I've always thought, we only need 1 superior system total per Generation: we need software NOT hardware
Feels like a false narrative, or at least a misinterpretation/exaggeration of what poll results represent.
As usual, the early adopters will early adopt. But you cannot draw the conclusion that the product will be successful. At this price, I really don’t think it will be a popular product like the PS2 or the Switch. Personally I’m finally playing R&C Rift Apart, and even at 30 fps raised to 40 by the 120 mode, well it’s good enough for my taste and to enjoy the game. No need for a Pro when the game is originally well made, not a half baked product.
So far mostly scalpers pre-ordered them. I think majority will not care. Sony is happy to sell to resellers as it was on Thursday.
I'm not surprised. If you don't already own a PS5, the level of performance you're getting for the cost is unmatched in PC gaming.
Just the equivalent graphics card is about $600.
Nah, I have zero interest in the Pro, but more power to everyone that gets one though.
DF video and also the announcement of the new Ghost of game made me go for it in the end.
I warmed up to buying a 4k gaming monitor with 160hz refresh rate and a 1ms response time instead!
@GreatAuk you can get a 4060 for $300... it's no 4090, but that's a good card. I just built a computer for under $1200 after tax that will outshine the PS5 Pro for years to come.
@Resaint In the USA the Pro is still available as of this moment. Any scalper who bought a vanilla Pro to put on Ebay definitely did it wrong lol
@riceNpea yup. I'd say 80% of people typing stuff on the Internet about games or consoles don't even end up interfacing with them.
@8bitOG
Digital Foundry said the equivalent card is a 4070 which sell for 550 to 600.
Throw in the rest of the system, pretty much the best controller on the market and proprietary tech like PSSR and you can't really even compare an equivalent PC costs wise.
@GreatAuk that's dreaming big. AMD doesn't have as good of ray tracing and the upscaling isn't as good as nvidia. I have the 4070ti and that makes the PS5 look like it's from the dark ages. If you want a disc drive and stand, you're already sitting at $900ish after tax. Plus, you can't mod games quite the same way or have the utility of a real computer. At the end of the day though, people who aren't as technically inclined will go for the over priced plug n play. That's a personal decision.
Edit: plus you have to pay annually to play online which is minimum of $80. While steam regularly gives away games and has sales and the PS5 Pro has a limited library that actually can push its limits
It’s probably more the folks that were gonna buy it anyway are speaking up. There are plenty of people that just want the latest tech (and if they can afford it, more power to them) and will be there day 1. But there are many that will evaluate based on value. Personally since we are at a transition period for this gen (Nintendo will announce their new system this fiscal year, Sony putting out the Pro) it’s a good time for PC upgrades imo.
This is why I don’t consider myself a tech fan. Because the price of the products are getting too much yet people still keep buying them. When is it going to get too much if $700 isn’t?
I read the df article and saw the images. Honestly had a hard time telling the difference.
I play in quality mode and am indifferent to fps though, so the benefits here really wont impact me at all. (The ray tracing in the non gt racing game though was remarkable)
Either way, as someone who always goes for the more powerful console, i still dont see enough value here to warrant an upgrade.
Hoping when it comes out and we see some custom game modes leveraging the benefits it shows a bit more. If that happens ill pull the trigger.
@8bitOG
Hey man that's what Digital Foundry said, we're talking about people who are all in on PC tech. I would certainly hope they know what they're talking about.
BTW I've been building desktops since I was 14.
But for me I never got into gaming on a PC. The last thing I want to do is fiddle around with settings for 20 minutes to squeeze an extra few frames out of a PC.
I just love the plug and play ability of a console.
For what you get at $699 it's unmatched in the PC world.
I'll give you the online subscription argument. But for me personally I don't play online anyway. But I do acknowledge that that cost affects a lot of players.
Another argument could be made that a console allows you to easily play on a large TV instead of being stuck with a much smaller monitor.
Most PC gamers play on a monitor. I'd rather play on a giant OLED.
@Kraaatos by the time GTA6 is released the PS6 will be soon out. I'll save myself £700 now instead of wasting it on hardware that's going to be surpassed in 4 years time if not sooner
That's kinda a lot of spin here, how much is Sony paying for that kind of spin? About a little over half the population of one of the preeminent ultra hardcore loyal brand dedicated PS fansites has any interest in the new PlayStation.
If they can barely get half of the most fanatical core, this things sales crater in months.
Imagine if only half of push square had any interest in ps6.
@Al3 Yup. "bUt A pC iSn'T $700!"
@Jireland92 A big problem is in the new economy you either make 1980s wages and can afford nothing or you make 6 figures and can afford everything twice without thinking about it. It's more like Rome, patrician's and plebians then the middle class driven market we grew up in. More and more all products are made for the 6 figure patrician's. It's not for the plebeians. You have your water and bread and that's all you need.
Though there's always the value sentiment, this us pc folks. It costs more up front but In the long term may be cheaper and you're not as required to always be current. There's a fair chance the next batch of $300 gpus is near the pro.
@GreatAuk "Just the equivalent graphics card is about $600.".
500, but that comes with an even better scaler, and more raw grunt. And for everyone that has a pc they put it in already it's $200 less, better, and very likely already has a MUCH better CPU even if it's an old one. Initial cost is definitely higher but then the upgrades and up comparatively cheaper and better. It's why I don't believe in these mid Gen console cycles and upgrades. It borrowed the model of PC but without the inherent savings of upgrades. It's only cheaper for first time buyers.
Rather than sell a 700 console they should have licensing require all games run at stable 60fps with minimum resolution targets and enforce that rule on base PS5. Because guess that? Devs can do it. They just don't want to. So they rely on brute force. Force targets in them and magically games will be made to perform well on the hardware.
Edit: why do people keep talking about gaming on monitors vs TVs. HDMI exists. You just plug it into your TV. It's not the dvi and dsub days anymore. Most PC gamers play on monitors simply because they prefer to, they play games like wow that benefit desk play, or because they value ultra high refresh that gaming monitors have more often than TVs. I happen to prefer monitors and have all my consoles on monitors. Too darned near sighted to play on the TV lol. But yes pc has been TV friendly for ages now. And you don't HAVE to fiddle with settings to get more fps, it's just an option that you don't have on consoles that many want to have. Out of the box it's just like console. It just unlocks a bunch of extra options on top of that.
@GreatAuk you make some valid arguments, and people will go with what works best to suit their needs. I still this the 4070s is an extremely generous comparison. Sounds like someone had a shill pill
Also, my brother keeps his pc hooked up to his TV and has bt peripherals
@NEStalgia
I only brought up tvs vs monitors because most people don't have their PC nearby the living room TV. And most people will absolutely not hook up their PC to a TV.
Ironically I'm actually not most people. Not only did I used to have my PC hooked up to a big TV but I also had it hooked up to a projector haha. I also did the same for my Xbox 360.
Today the PS5 is nestled nicely inside the TV stand underneath one of LG's 77 inch OLEDs. There is no way I'd game on a diminutive monitor when the OLED is available.
@Rich33
You're my new captain. Thank you so much for taking the time, it was instructive and good advice👍
Initially I was on the fence but since I've seen the drastic improvements shown in the DF videos in games I want to play, I'd much rather have the pro for the next 4 years over the original.
@Ravix
😂
They should port him to a game as a villain.
@GreatAuk Haha yeah, I love "big screen" but I'm near sighed enough that reading text on the big screen just isn't big enough lol. Monitor is better then glasses darinit. But I think I've got it solved. Nice high ppd (no screen door) moled or qled pcvr headset even for 2d in big screen mode, costs more than a giant OLED TV, but jumbo screen at a distance I can read! Hopefully!
Haha yeah I had PS3 and Wii u on the projector for a while though. That was awesome...
Gotta say though I do love my little monitor. Only 60fps but beautiful 4k hdr, and at 27" it's nearly retina . I have it on an arm so I just pull it up to the couch 😂
There’s no world where Anya doesn’t convince Yor or Loid to buy her the PS5 Pro. If it’s for the betterment of the mission, Loid will buy that PS5 Pro at all costs. In fact, he’d be on eBay getting fleeced for the 30th Anniversary Edition if it prevented Anya from a tontrius bolt.
@NEStalgia dude, you're trying to make the "I can make a PC for that" it shows that you either know nothing about building a worthwhile pc and/or you don't understand the point of the PS5 pro, for reference my quality PSU is £180 on its own, my GPU (7800xt) was about £470 throw in a dualsense and that's pretty much cost without all the other stuff you'd need, case, mobo, ram, CPU, SSD etc, the cost is far greater, and of course that pc that would cost at least £1200 would not play any playstation games that haven't been ported to pc.
I still think this Pro model is a mistake. It doesn’t answer a customer need. Hard Core gamers who invest money are on PC. The PlayStation exclusive catalogue is very thin since a decade and there is nothing that motivates the need to have a console. On the other side, the casual gamer to play FIFA or CoD has already a PS 5 or Xbox. Families have a Switch that is cheap and good enough. There is no need to drop $800 on this Pro model. It’s like the VR stuff, this is niche and will tank fast after the early adopters will give a try.
Well, when people realise the PS6 will cost the same if not more and won't release until 2028/29, with PS5 Pro additionally likely being the last disc possible console, there may be a change of thought on it!
@UltimateOtaku91 "people spend the same as that (if not more) on a new mobile phone every two years." I have to agree with this notion. I myself am sitting on the fence and waiting to see before I decide to buy a ps5 Pro. I'll try and put things into context here (I hope.) So as a golfing fanatic I've upgraded my clubs around 5 times and probably spent over £2000. I've got a scotty Cameron putter (£280.) I bought a cobra driver brand new (£400) plus golf membership p/y (£1250) which may seem ridiculous to some people here but its what I love playing above all else. Given the choice of sitting around when it's good weather playing the ps5 or my bass guitar or being out on the golf course it's the golf that wins out every time..every time. So £700 plus however much a bluray drive is really is nothing to complain about if that's your chosen pleasure. My wife is an artist who is endorsed by derwent pencils and she is an ambassador for them and she is one of the artists that was hand picked by them to assist other artists in her chosen preference of medium. Now she gets new products from them all the time to test and review for them for free and I don't even want to think about how much her studio (spare bedroom) would have cost if she wasn't so lucky to have been picked by them. If people want a ps5 Pro they will buy one regardless of the price which I think is reasonable. I'll bet over half the people moaning will buy one anyway and probably won't admit to it either. I hope I did a good job of explaining my thinking.
Hey Sony, you wont fool me twice 😉
@xxdavidxcx87 No, nobody would suggest a worthwhile PC is $700 out of the box. What I would suggest is that a worthwhile PC that's much better than pro is similar in cost to the PS5 digital + PS5 pro upgrade path even before you get to cheaper games and no subscriptions. And that over the course of PS5, PS5 pro, and PS6 and/or also getting an Xbox for any games that don't go to ps, it can be both far cheaper and better, minus those few ps games that may not get to PC.
Removed - trolling/baiting
@UltimateOtaku91 @Northern_munkey I disagree with the mobile phone comparison. Most people do not spend that on a phone. But even for those that do were talking about a device that life literally revolves around. It's people's communication, scheduling, task management, navigation, music, browsing, video, even gaming device. Home and work revolve around it. It's a necessary tool to function. Just because people assign that value to that device doesn't mean a device that offers slightly better gfx than a normal PS5 gets the same weight. And for a large segment of the market that would and overlaps the flagship phone market, that segment spends on PC instead. It's a really odd product that doesn't really serve much of a market other than just making sure to, as you UK folks would say, "Hoover up" any money laying on the table from a niche of a niche.
@EfYI
No problem. Happy gaming on Pro or base PS5, whichever fits you best.
I want one, but I want new games to play on it, and Sony is just not delivering in this department at the moment. Sony was the company of varied games and new franchises. Now they are the play safe company, particularly since closing Japan Studio.
@NEStalgia So you're saying that the pc argument is valid because someone may have a PS5 and you're adding the cost of the pro together to try and justify it, that's frankly ridiculous, firstly someone may be upgrading from the PS4, may be trading in or selling Thier PS5, also, saying that the gaming would be much better on pc is elitist nonsense, I love a bit of pc gaming but to claim it's much better on pc and talk about subscriptions when pc gaming is littered with them is insane, you made thinly veiled accusations of fanboyism earlier, might be good to look in the mirror.
@EfYI
I don't think you understand PC well if you think the average PC gamer spends that much on a card. You can spend $400-$600 and play every game there is to play with high performance(can even go cheaper, tbh). Absolutely no one is spending that much money for a graphics card except people with too much money to burn that don't the lack of value in that. I've put $1000 total into my PC and it's played everything I've needed with minimal upgrades through both the PS4 and the PS5 generation and it'll soar far into the life of the PS6. It absolutely is cheaper than console for the average PC gamer, not for the nuts that are willing to throw money around to squeeze every bit of improvement they can get (which I would argue falls off at some point regardless of the money you spend.)
A thousand or less every 10-15 years with a possible small upgrade here and there is far cheaper than buying 2 or 3 consoles and having to pay extra a month just to play online.
But regardless, this isn't really on topic.
More on topic I don't really care about the Pro because 95% of the games I play on my PS5 are older games from the PS/2/3 generation that I didnt have to pay for in the first place.
Once they realized this isn't the ps6, they don't need it to play ps games and it's only an option that can give you a different and great experience a lot of people calmed down and some even got interested lol.
@EfYI I'm here to talk to you about kidnapping your family. With over double the criminal intent, advanced villainy, and a new proprietary form of torture.
Quite simply, I am the most powerful man you have ever seen.
Let‘s see how it will turn out. I‘m still not convinced that the PS5 Pro will be a success:
At this point, everyone with high interest in a PS5 has got one, and many not before 2022 due to Covid manufacturing problems.
So the Pro is mainly an upgrade at a very high price, not like the PS4 Pro, which was the first PS4 for many people, at a reasonable price.
@messimagician your gonna wait ATLEAST 3 years to play GTA6? Bold.
@NEStalgia most people do spend that on a mobile phone and some even more. Even with a contract the cost of the phone is factored in. The point I was making or trying to was that people will spend silly amounts of money on the things that give them the most enjoyment in life. Your pc probably cost a fair chunk of change and will continue to when you inevitably need to upgrade it to stay up to date with the games..its no different.
It has "pro" in it. Of course it'll sell
@NEStalgia I also forgot to mention my recent addiction to sim racing..I'm about to drop silly money on a new steering wheel set up as soon as thrustmaster reveal their new direct drive unit and possibly a new cockpit too (I know I'm a nutter right?) But it's what I really enjoy and I'm enjoying my midlife crisis quite a lot. Since I lost my mother earlier this year I've made a promise to myself that I'm going to try and enjoy my life as much as I can without bankrupting myself in the process. Life's too short for what ifs...
@Bentleyma
If you count 695 peak players on steam as “loving” concord and it getting shut down in 4 days, then sure
@xxdavidxcx87 I mean, a gaming computer still has the utility of a regular computer. You can do far more with a computer than you ever could with a PS5 Pro. Not to mention, even when you eventually need a new PC you will have your library intact. How many games from the PS5 era are going to be relevant 2 to 3 generations from now? Not to mention the best thing about my PS5 is my PS4 game library?
@Northern_munkey most people spend $200-400 on a phone and these days this phones are more than enough. Even as someone who always bought flagship phones in the past, myself, because I live on my phone and always needed the enhancement it offered, my current phone honestly still holds up to everything I need at over 4 years old and other than the battery eventually failing I don't see anything on the market that does anything I don't already have, I'd probably rebuy the same phone refurbished for a song when the battery failed. Phones plateaued and other than phone gamers that need to run the latest GPU or emulators on their phone, or the hardcore desktop replacement phone users, there's kind of no point to the expensive phones anymore other than to be expensive for people that feel like expensive makes it better (see the people spending $20k on audio gear that's objectively worse then stuff a fraction of the price)
There's also the fact that a lot of phone purchases are heavily used for work/business use, ie, it's used to MAKE money which sets it value differently than an entertainment device.
My PC is a bad example 😂 yeah it was pricy but it's not at all a PC I'd be recommending to the average console gamer looking at PC. I had very specific requirements for a specialized vr rig that's also somewhat futureproof. The thing will crush a ps6 like it's a twig. But I'd never have built that for pancake gaming. It's very very overkill. But barely acceptable for vr and where me headset will be in a few years.
You're in the same boat with the SIM racing. You're THE customer my intended vr setup is for! We need to merge systems, my VR rig and your cockpit 😂. Can relate well.
@xxdavidxcx87 Once we start comparing selling components (which you can do with PC components as well) and skipping generations (which most do on PC as well) we're really running off realistic comparisons.
While the scenarios exist, the main customer this targets is early adopter enthusiasts. The same type that bought a PS5 at launch and is upgrading. That is the primary target market. Similarly a new GPU is largely targeting consumers that already have a rig to put it in. Obviously either way the first time buyer has an upfront cost to factor in which is there the PS5 pro looks cheaper. But over the long haul in the ecosystem it isn't necessarily the cheaper route.
Yep I selflessly admit after getting over the much-higher-than-expected pro price, my little brain has started convincing myself it’s a good idea!
@NEStalgia
Very odd, your own words "that's much better than pro is similar in cost to the PS5 digital + PS5 pro upgrade path"
Again I don't think that you understood what I said, you're trying to compare the cost of one pc Vs multiple consoles which makes no sense at all.
Further and perhaps most importantly I'm at odds as to why you who seemingly have no interest in the PS5 pro have managed to spend most of your day on a comment section focused on it, trying to convince others not to buy it, saying they're being paid by Sony to lie in one case, it comes over like you're pretty obsessed, I mean I'm excited, I've got a decent pc and now I'll get the PS5 pro, it's the best way to play a lot of games and it really feels like you know that but for whatever reason can't have one, can't think of any other reason why you've wasted a day or more kidding yourself about it.
@xxdavidxcx87 I am comparing one PC vs multiple consoles, yes, because that's the proposition here. One generation, for enthusiasts is now $1200. That's in 4 years. A 1200 PC can go for a lot longer than that and the cost of the next upgrade would be less than the ps6.
That's great you're excited. why you'd be excited when it sounds like you already have something better I can't quite comprehend, but yay? Why you're trying to downplay the cost benefits over the long term of an ecosystem you already participate and should know about I also can't comprehend. And no the pro is not not going to be a better way to play any game other than exclusives that don't make it to PC than the rig I built in advance of the pro in part because I correctly anticipated exactly what the pro would be and for how much and realized console was now a money sink worse than PC which I thought I'd got out of a decade and a half ago.
@Ravix
Fantastic - i could almost hear him saying it!
Or... a different sample of people participated in each poll. 🤷
I really don't think digital foundry changed anyone's opinion.
Can someone explain to me the discourse from some people in gaming right now?
Then…
“Where are all the new games?!?”
“These corporations shouldn’t be laying all these devs off- they are greedy!”
News flash people…Sony and every other corporation in the world is greedy. They are there to make money. If you don’t like it don’t support it. Don’t get on here and give people ***** for spending their own money.
This industry- more than just about any other industry - has been extremely inflation resistant. We are paying less than we were inflation adjusted 10 years ago.
If you expect Sony and other corporations to lose money or survive on ultra thin margins so they can get free stuff - I’d argue you’re greedier than Sony.
Corporations suck. They do ***** that sucks. Stuff above that I mention suck - I’m not personally going to pay $10to upgrade horizon but I’m not gonna get online and complain about it and insult the intelligence of people that do.
You’re free to not support it either but getting on here and insulting people makes you look worse than Sony
@NEStalgia dude- some people don’t want a pc. I prefer console gaming because I sit at a computer all day. I have all of my games digitally on PlayStation.
I have a nice computer and a ps5 - I also bought a pro. Why? Because I make good money and want to play games at the best fidelity possible. I have no desire to play on pc for many reasons.
Do you think it was dumb for me to buy?
You have no idea why people bought this…you only know why you DIDNT and expect everyone to have your exact line of thinking.
I’ll admit I was firmly in the “pass” camp until DF review. I went ahead and preordered just to reserve it for now. They don’t charge your card until it ships anyways. Still undecided and might cancel but the idea of combined performance + quality mode is growing on me.
@Ajbr8687 No, I'm well aware of that. But the hyperbole around this "amazing" console is all wrong in the narrative. If people want to pay extreme premium for convenience fine. But that's what the discussion, and the marketing, should be. Paying high premium for convenience, because great value, or exceptionally good performance is simply not what's on offer.
There are definitely people who I would not recommend PC gaming to for sure. Though I think most people in the target market for the pro really may be better served by it.
But what most of the PC discussion has been is just how much misinformation there is about PC. The cost value over time is always the big one, but the themes of "having to spend hours configuring games", "constant driver updates", "but I want to play on a TV" etc, there's a lot of misinformation and people remembering how it was decades ago that don't know it's pretty much plug and play these days. It's not about convincing people that just want to pay more for convenience they shouldn't. It's about showing people that might be on the fence or might really end up prefer PC that some of the ideas they have that stop them are wrong or outdated.
@NEStalgia you’re still looking at it from YOUR value proposition.
PC gaming isn’t for everyone. I have a nice rig I use for games that don’t work well on console (4x games mainly)- you are 100% incorrect saying the target audience would be better served on pc.
There is NO question that a console experience is easier. Common specs and plug and play is still way easier. You are someone that obviously understands PC builds…not everyone else does. To a laymen PC specs are daunting and people don’t want to worry about settings and specs.
Some people have $1000s of dollars in PlayStation digital games. Wouldn’t you agree that buying a $700 pro is less expensive than buying a pc and rebuying $1000 of games on steam?
Your argument of the $1200 investment is also flawed. If someone only has a ps5 and they want to have better specs that should drop $1200 for a decent gaming pc? So the options would be $500 +$700 vs $500 + $1200 plus rebuying games.
You’re not educating - you’re explaining YOUR reason. Once again you have no idea anyone’s reasons.
@Ajbr8687 Yes I agree it's easier for laymen, and absolutely the vendor lock is a huge issue, and if you're trapped you're trapped. I'm my case that's part of what prompted me to get out while the trahectory of console is ugly because the longer you stay in it the deeper that hole. Between Xbox and PS I definitely have that much in their libraries and had to commit to rebuying anything I still needed to play. So I definitely agree with all that.
That said while vendor lock is a real problem, and for the laymen the complexity is a problem, for most people that are enthusiast enough to be here on this site, most are a good deal more knowledge than laymen, and those interested that may not know have a lot of us here that can help them, too. Joe Casual? No, they're not going the PC route but enthusiasts on this site have a clue and a lot of people willing to help.
Re the pricing, yes, for the initial jump. But it's about that 10-20 year cost of ownership for an enthusiast gamer. Ie looking at what ps6 might bring, the vendor lock issue, is about figuring out if it's a better long term path and the sooner the jump off point the better.
For the hopelessly digitally locked, for the total technophobe that just wants convenience above all, sure it's a realistic option. But there's a lot of people looking over the fence at this point, and should be, but avoid it due to oft repeated funny ideas of PCs. Then there's people like HonestHick who I highly recommend sticking with console to. I know him well enough to know PC isn't for him. He's an apple guy. They round the corners so their customers can't hurt themselves.
@NEStalgia pretty much what I'm saying. I'm not saying everybody spends the price of the ps5 Pro on a new phone every couple of years but most people will because they have to have the most up to date tech and its not because they "need" it but they have to be seen to..its a statement. Again you had a very specific need in mind when you built your rig and set aside the funds to achieve that goal and the people who want a ps5 Pro are no different. If somebody wants something they will always find a way to purchase it. I would love a fodera bass guitar but I don't need one and there lies the rub..I want but I don't "need" one.
@Ajbr8687 "$70 for games is way too expensive!!!" I personally think that £70 upwards is too expensive for me..if others wish to spend their money on them well that's entirely up to them. It dosnt make them "boot lickers" or "corporate shills" as some call them rather ignorantly...they are just exercising their right as a consumer to purchase what they want,when they want and for however much "they" are willing to pay. I myself will wait for the game to hit an acceptable price that I'm happy with.
Still in the "nah, I'll skip it" group here
@Ravix
That's comedy gold😂
@Northern_munkey I think you hit a lot of the nail with "statement" and "to be seen with". It's true. With phones, what does the new model do that my 4 year old phone doesn't? Other than gaming better, nothing at all. Wi-Fi 7 but it's still so new routers don't really even exist yet other than a few extremely priced ones. It's a fashion accessory. And that's the market Sony is increasingly moving to reach. The electronics as a designer fashion brand market vs those seeking s particular solution. And that's rubbing some people including myself very very wrong. I don't wear designer. Dgaf who sees "who I'm wearing" I just want a product that does what I want it to the way I want it do and doesn't try to overcharge me for it. THIS product doesn't fit that bill.
Funny thing is, if I trusted Sony more I wouldn't have built my PC. It was in response to Xbox faffing about and being a poor choice to keep dumping money into, and also an eye towards better VR. But I originally still didn't want to deal with that initial cost or hassle myself. Considered briefly getting a pro at whatever the price would be and going pure pony from now on. Then realized how Sony would be reacting and started thinking about how they'd price the pro and realized, nope I need to get out and spend my souls before the boss battle with hulst. I kept saying here pro would be 750 and people mocked my that there's no way it'll be that price lol.
So it's a joint venture of Sony doing things like this and Xbox doing.... Whatever they're doing, that I ended up back in PC.
Funny thing is I built that rig and keep playing on my cheap non extreme z1 Ally 😂
That vr kit, I'm hoping finances allow. It's pricey, it was my plan, I'm not certain finances will allow or not as it's not even up for preorder yet, have a reservation in line, but might but be out until December or later. Hopefully funds hold up (and recover from the PC build and quest setup!. ) That and your racing rig combined would the the stuff of legend though! Shame this site doesn't have a PM feature, I think we'd have some OT conversation in common.
@NEStalgia "And that's the market Sony is increasingly moving to reach." That's how Sony have been since day one. All of their products be it the PlayStation brand,stereo equipment,televisions etc,etc,etc have always been marketed towards 1st day adopters and let's face it what company dosnt? I always expected the ps5 Pro to be between £700 and £800 and I was gobsmacked that people got upset because it wasn't £600 or less..unreasonable expectations from unreasonable people. Whilst I agree with what you are saying and you agree with what I'm saying we are both approaching the conclusion from opposite directions but ultimately finding a common ground which in itself is rare on these pages as most people just argue forever insisting they are correct and that's that. This is why I enjoy our little conversations from time to time.
@Bluemoon2008 very exactly my opinion. Well said mate.
So many arguments between people who don't want a PS5 Pro vs people who wants a PS5 Pro 🤣
I'm personally don't see PS5 Pro for me since i'm okay with stable 30/60 fps-1080p and don't give a F* about 120fps/4K, ray tracing, FSR, and all the mumbo jumbo. Just give me polished and fun games even in 2D sprite and i'll play them.
Like Metaphor demo for example. I've seen some people complaining about the "PS2 jaggies" and i just don't think it's bad enough to detract me from enjoying the demo.
I guess i'm just too old school when comes to graphic. As long as the frame rate is stable even at 30 fps then i'm not gonna complaint.
The noisy minority. First it was - we don't need or want it. Then it was - it's too expensive.
Guys they're communicating with Sony, don't you understand.
@PuppetMaster
I didn't see any argument from people who wanted one. All the arguing was from people who didn't want one.
@riceNpea "Fans" alone don't make up the market base. If there are a large amount of non-"fans" who are not buying the Pro, but have bought a PS5 and would likely buy a PS6, that's a problem.
Just goes to show how easily the gullible masses can be persuaded to give up their money. I am failing to see what material difference to the PS5 gaming experience the PS5 Pro is going to make. If it's as drastic as people are claiming, it should be self-evident. I shouldn't need to watch a propaganda piece by "tech experts" to be persuaded. As a smart consumer, I think I'll use that money on something I actually want, rather than something Sony is telling me I need.
@LuXifer yeah PC hardware makes the PS5 PAro seems like a steal
@tinCAT-zero I'm pretty sure that NES guy are arguing with people who interested to get a PS5 Pro.
@Ajbr8687 Dude, why are you acting like the companies are struggling to make a profit? You are under the wrong impression. They want ever increasing profits. That is why they make greedy moves.
Are you really blaming the consumer for not liking it?
Sure, buy whatever you want. In the grand scheme it doesn't matter what we personally do. What will matter is the greater picture and how sales are affected. Though online discourse does impact it somewhat. So, consumers showing their displeasure is useful to defend the consumer perspective. So, there is nothing wrong with doing that.
Also, you are building a narrative there. You are trying to connect different people's and what they are saying about different things together. We are not a hive mind.
@guntam the article was about fans coming round, so that was I was talking about.
I will never buy a console that doesn't include a disc drive by default.
Lost cause really. Break to fomo at the first sign of (orchestrated) scarcity. People really don't know how to spend their money wisely.
The price for a niche, enthusiast device that wasn't meant to sell in large numbers isn't that bad.
The issue is Sony thinking they can get away with it going forward. Thanks in no small part to Apple, we live in an age of 'reassuringly expensive' that has gaslighted people into thinking cheaper products must be inferior. Taken from a cold start with no prior affinity I'd question for example whether anybody really needs a phone better than a Pixel 8a (say).
If Sony convince the market that £700 should be the going rate for the Playstation 6 then we're in trouble.
Then again the Switch may well go on to becoming the best selling console of all time so what do I know.
@RadioHedgeFund "If Sony convince the market that £700 should be the going rate for the Playstation 6 then we're in trouble"
Ι don't think it will be that expensive. They know they need casual gamers for free to play games and MTX. They won't lose them just so that they can deliver cutting edge technology. They may push for the digital only version, though, to reduce costs.
@Nem while Sony is making more revenue than ever, apparently their profits are exceedingly low. Which is why they're not spending money on games that aren't a sure thing (other than gaas, which has the potential to be a gold mine - or a financial bomb). So, as a gamer who loved their AA games, this is bad news.
@Member_the_game I like your attitude and this is pretty much it. They're targeting specific audience with the PS5 Pro and the same goes for PS Portal.
@Khwarezm89
Funnily enough I did actually buy a PS Portal.
it was a Nice bit of kit but my internet at home (whilst being fairly decent) just couldn't handle it.
It was fine if I was home alone but as soon as someone else was at home online (my daughter playing Roblox on her iPad as an example) it made it go all glitchy and it was borderline unplayable.
I sold it after a week while it was still in high demand.
@xxdavidxcx87 @Ajbr8687 @NEStalgia @Northern_munkey
I was reading through a lot of comments regarding PC / PS5 Pro and I thought I would post in as Im one of those people that has genuinely considered PC, but has bought (pre-ordered) PS5 Pro, and am very happy with that decision.
1) £700 is a bit more than i would like to have paid, but I do not see the price as a scam etc nor do i see it as a really good price, just a reasonable enough price that I can afford. If i wanted to go down the PC route, I could afford the outlay of a very decent machine, but would stop where value (including future proofing) diminished as the price went up.
2) Framerate is very important to me. More or less locked 60fps is a minimum, and I can see the benefit all the way up to 120fps, but anything above 90fps is really diminishing returns. If games on Pro start failing at 60fps or the PS6 isnt designed suitably - I am not returning to 30fps (or 40), and I will be done with console.
3) I really like Sony exclusive 1st party single player games - I went from Xbox360 to PS4 because of these games, and stuck with Sony for PS5 as well (though part of this was my dislike of Xboxs strategy as well). Sony putting their games on PC, and even worse their Live Service push, both push me significantly towards PC (both strategies from Sony are very dangerous to their LONG term health imo).
4) I do have a large back catalogue of games with Sony, and if I went PC, I would need to keep a PS console just to play my back catalogue. In fact, this coming year is likely going to be quite cheap for me, as i will be tempted to replay a good number of Pro enhanced games. I could not just simply escape to PC without re buying a number of games.
5) I am intelligent (not intended as bragging), and know a fair amount, but I would find putting together a gaming PC for the 1st time to be fairly daunting, at least at first. I think PC is getting better on the 'plug and play' front, but it is still a long, long way off console for now. I would still want to play through my main 120hz 4k TV, and play games via controller (not mouse/keyboard).
6) To get a new PC up and running at the level to out perform games running on PS5 Pro would have cost a lot more than the Pro. Just because I could afford it, doesnt mean i want to.
Optimisation on PS5 from 3rd party devs is an issue at the moment, but not to the same degree as PC where devs have to account for lots of different CPUs, GPUs, and set ups. Therefore I would need to account for this (and performance loss from operating systems etc), when deciding on parts to buy.
I also dont see any cost benefit in going PC and upgrading, as opposed to buying the next console every 4 years, as it isnt just the GPU i would need to upgrade, when looking long term, and potentially i could end up spending more.
I will add though that unlike some have mentioned, i cant justifiably negate part of the cost due to a work/ non work PC that is also needed in the family for another purpose that needs to be kept up to date to a suitable standard (we would still need a 2nd "boring" PC seperately).
So I will buy the Pro which unlike some I think has very good potential, hopefully stay happy with it, and take another decision come PS6 - which will mostly be based on how well Sony do on single player exclusive games, and how well they push 60fps framerates vs the price difference / personal inconvenience of moving to PC.
Playstation based website claims people like Playstation. Shocker.
I never planned to get a Pro. But after they showed Ghost of Yotei I was sold. It's amazing what a NEW first party game that you know will look exceptionally beautiful on it will change your mind.
@Rich33 I feel the same way as you. Having built my own pc a decade ago I know how daunting a task it is if you have limited know how. I doubt I'll ever go back to gaming on PC mainly because I just can't be arsed spending time updating drivers and windows. In all honesty I can see myself getting a ps5 Pro next year but I have other things I need to purchase (new racing rig) before purchasing something I just want. Enjoyed reading your comment and it was well put 👍
@Northern_munkey Not all companies. It used to be that most companies targeted making as much of a thing as possible, cheaper than the other guy and selling as much of it to as many people as possible. It's a new thing and sign of our retrograde "progress" as the middle class economy devolves into segmented peasants and nobles line we've gone back 300 years in only 10. But Sony.... They WERE always this way! I remember back before ps even existed I had a Sony outlet store around. Like most outlet stores they sold factory seconds, refurbs, etc. Unlike most outlets however, nothing was ever actually cheap! They'd sell refurbs and seconds at like $30 of new price. They'd sell TVs (back then it was those huge console crts with the built in cabinet, those big furniture pieces) for like $100 of new, but unlike retailers they didn't pay for delivery so by the time you arranged for transport it would cost more than just buying the thing new at a real store! They'd have big holiday sales like the rest of the mall but they'd hardly ever discount things and the stuff never ever moved lol. Then I'm the PlayStation era from 1-3 they had the whole side wall in ps games and consoles. Rarely refurb ps1. Frequent refurb ps2s. But they were beat up things at nearly full price. And the names games were always MSRP. You could get all of it cheaper at regular retailers. It was like the opposite of an outlet. You pay more for everything to get worse lol. It was a fun store, used to go and walk around all the time. I think I only ever bought maybe 5 things there 😂. Sony never changes.... We're going back to the late 80s, early 90s there. Cordless brick phones had a whole aisle. The ones with the telescoping 3ft metal antennas. Refurbs in white boxes for $10 off new.
@PuppetMaster My feeling is that the pro is a poor and expensive attempt to fix an industry problem with developers foisted into the customer rather than a nice to have upgrade. Consoles aren't PCs. When you buy consoles you know you're getting a trade-off of less power and less fancy graphics than the highest end PCs and console buyers are fine with that.
PlayStation is near a monopoly and is fixed hardware. Developers should easily be able to make their games target the PS5 and run flawlessly with graphics reduced from PC ideal detail. But what do developers do? Build games targeting the best of that PC visuals can offer, port or as is to console and however it runs, it runs. then in comes ps5 pro where for $700 you can pay for the industries failures. And on top of that it's not even a significant upgrade....
That's the crux of the problem. It's not that a PS5 pro is needed or even a decent upgrade. It's that it's an expensive bandaid the customer pays for to fix devs not doing their job and making PS5 games for PS5 that run properly on PS5.
@naruball to be fair the only reason Sony is making low margins with all that revenue is Jim and Herman's uncontrolled drunken spending on things like those gaas games and over budgeting their single player games. Poor management blowing all the cash isn't quite the same as an unprofitable business though or IS how most of the major company bankruptcies in recent memory have happened.
I always find it funny when people downplay "armchair CEOs" vs "these accomplished people" running companies (not Sony specifically just in general on the Internet), meanwhile plenty of that accomplished guys are proven to have had no idea what they were doing while burning billions of dollars and leaving a value less husk of what could easily have been a successful company when most among the common rabble knew what they were going wrong from the start and manage money quite a bit better. Sometimes the ivy leaguers should really just step aside and let Bob the janitor run the company a few years. Bob may just understand money and consumers than the too clever by half MBA trying to leverage 100 financial vehicles as they head toward a cliff.
@Rich33 A fair and reasoned decision. To many people DON'T do that careful weighing of considerations so that s well done decision. And yeah where PC REALLY becomes an instant cost savings is multi platform players. If you're doing both ps and xb at New pricing with at least one of them making a mid Gen you're up to almost $2k in consoles per generation vs a PC which quickly is cheaper.
But... When that pro disappoints on the 60fps front..... We're here for you for that parts shopping list
@NEStalgia
Yeah, Sony has done their research and have set their Pro 'bar" of performance modes being better - in fact I even saw Mark Cerny's bit about 3/4 of all PS players prefer Performance etc as a firm nudge at devs.
I also read your comments on Pro being in part a bandaid for devs not doing their jobs properly. Though i might be tempted to say publishers may be equally to blame, I dont disagree with your point, and i am sure i will be whinging more than a few times about 3rd party devs not following this!
I think that Sony now need to deliver this, and have a real opportunity to show they mean it this time - and there are methods i can see:
Setting a standard of 60fps at say 97% of the time with no drops whatsoever below 50fps. Stuttering / frame pacing controlled too.
Allowing their "pro enhanced" label only on games which fit this.
Then doing more states of play (eg 1 per month minimum) which include only games that sign up for this standard giving these devs a bit of free coverage, and never covering games that dont. Cover the games coming up for launch in the next month as well as those further out.
Finally, only permitting (in all areas they control like storefronts and SoP) footage/images of the modes that meet this standard - no footage of better looking quality modes used to entice players.
Maybe this will also drive how they design PS6, or yes, I may well be here begging for a PC parts shopping list in a few years time!
@Northern_munkey
Thank you, i know it was long, but i had read a lot of comments and wanted to explain a viewpoint properly - and I quite agree about Needs over wants, and priorities - we all need them!
Honestly say I have no desire to get one...been around the block enough times not to fall for the hype ...the differences won't even been noticeable unless you have the fine tooth comb out...so I would pay £700 then be almost deluding myself that I see differences because I want justification for my money
@Rich33 Yeah, I think the problem is how little adoption it will have. Even PS4 pro barely accounted for install base as a percent and that was half the price. I think third parties by and large other than ones that Sony is effectively sponsoring, will completely ignore it other than just letting the scaler do it's thing. Optimization is so bad these days that the metaphor demo, not exactly wukong graphically, is grinding 4090s into 40fps territory. That game should be running 200fps on a 4090, that's just nuts. Granted I'm running it on a potato Ally non extreme and it's fine with minimal settings, only 30fps and it should be more, but more than fine for that weak system. But yeah there's a case where "pro enhanced" will mean minimal settings and 60 or high settings and 30-50 assuming the release is similar to the demo. FFXIV STILL can't hit solid 60 without heavily relying on dlss on 4090s. Ask these games are flat out broken today. Pro can't fix it. Even 4090 can't fix it. At least there you can strip settings back more and install mods users make to fix the games broken states. Ugh.
Most likely the pro will have a lower install base than Xbox series, and we already see how little attention devs give to optimizing that. Pro, where they can reach the exact same customer without putting effort in, I can't see third parties doing much more than raising the render res, or uncapping fps.
I was surprised about the statistic of performance mode, because most games default to fidelity and require the user to switch to performance. If it's 3/4 performance it makes me think the casuals are truly gone and it's only a core enthusiast market remaining
@Enigk well it's gonna be more than 700 that's for sure, I suggest people start saving now and make sure they have a grand put away for a launch ps6, or will they just complain that the ps6 isn't needed because they can't afford one.
@Shalooda They won't sell very many if that's what they charge.
At launch the PS4 was $400 (and then dropped to $350 later), PS4 Pro was $400, PS5 $500, PS5 Pro $700
If it's more than $550-600 they're going to doom themselves to low sales
@NEStalgia
The PSSR does sound 1 of the more interesting upgrades - particularly given the quality of FSR.... but no, nothing will help with optimisation so ridiculously bad.
Given devs recent odd habit to favour developing for rare super powerful PCs, i wonder if the Pro's mere existance will make optimisation on base console much worse though.
In terms of Series consoles, i would say that Devs do already need to optimise for 2 consoles, so Sony could specify this as well, but also the S (while im pleased it exists to keep devs in check a bit) appears to require quite a lot of effort given its low RAM, GPU spec.
The 3/4 surprised me a little, but not much, as I think a lot of even 'casual' players have moved to performance modes, partially due to the smooth motion but maybe more because of the reaction / lag benefits it gives, thus aiding their ability to perform at a higher level. Dont know, but its a theory.
@Rich33 Personally I have a more cynical take on pssr. Fsr isn't as good as dlss, it's true, but the console implementation is clearly using the low quality performance mode and not the much higher ultra quality modes. The console could have implemented much better fsr modes. There was no reason for PlayStation to implement their own proprietary version of something the soc already has. My best guess is they just wanted to r&d ai tech and silicon for their own use in other industries and ps seemed a good way to get customers to pay for their internal r&d meant for other things.
That said it's really the ONLY main feature of the console. And getting good scaling is an upgrade for sure. But them "pulling a Sony" and reinventing the wheel and charging for it simply to make it their own is like nails on a chalkboard to me!
As for affecting the base console optimization is a good question. If we look at new 3ds the answer is yes. Some games like monhun 4 barely ran on the base model after that. Otoh, PS4 pro was basically ignored like it didn't exist by most devs. It's 50/50 for now I think if it affects the optimization for the base.
What I find interesting about devs complaining about the s is, devs don't seem to complain about the steam deck, or Z1 non extreme, or GeForce 980s still running which are worse than the s. They only seem to mind the S.......... I'm sure install base is the reason. Of course it goes back to them all running A5000s targeting 4090s and then wonder why customers are complaining about performance. Do these people even have a PS5 dev kit? Or any Xbox you can turn into a dev kit? Or a 3070? Did they even try to run it on anything other than a design workstation? The whole industry is a mess.
I'm surprised the casuals even know to go into the menu. The other possibility is that most popular casual games (fortnite, gtav, cod, apex etc) all default to performance. That could swing it. Not that I'm complaining!
Yeah, every time Sony has showed off the PS5 Pro graphics and do a side-by-side comparison of the Pro vs the regular PS5 graphics... I am not seeing ANY difference. So, until I see it in person and actually see a difference, there is no reason for me to upgrade from my standard PS5 (That has a disc drive)
@Member_the_game I was skeptical too at first but after I saw a lot of people talking about the device and they've similar lifestyle like mine being a father with Full-time job and even some went and called it Dad Station . So I decided to get one and it actually helped me to squeeze more time playing like when I'm on a break or even going on vacation. It's perfect for these life scenarios.
@Buckster I agree about the price it is a bit much for the average person I'd say most people aren't lucky enough to just have 700 quid lying about, November release date as well , near Xmas launch and if you've got kids they're gonna take priority, I sold my ps4 and xbox one x to buy the ps5, but I'm lucky to have the money to get one at launch now and why not , I just have a problem with people trying to belittle those that have chosen to buy one , ive seen comments calling them stupid and why don't you just buy a pc etc , I work 6 days a week and I'll be damned if I'll let someone influence me what I do with my money.
@Shalooda I get you. I think people want to make a point about people buying it encourages Sony to continue to make the price of their products ridiculously high.
I personally would love it, but just can't justify the price when games themselves aren't even properly optimised, and when Sony is putting in a pretty lazy effort this gen and basically just trying to coast on the success of the ps4
@CrashBandicoat You know that performance mode on PS5 means frame rate prioritisation over graphical detail?
E.g. Medium-low settings 60fps instead of medium-high settings at 25fps
I still don't think Sony have done a good job of demonstrating it's worth. They made a mistake concentrating on first party games which almost always run well on their own hardware. But I do believe it will show it's worth over the next 3-4 years especially on third party titles.
But I also think they missed a trick by not having a 1TB model with a disc drive for the same price, £699. It would have been at the top end of my budget but I would have been in. But not at £825 with a stand.
no. still consider it useless (given how great ps5 is and how underutilized it is). If they have no other way but to brute force performance in (instead of creating properly specialized for ps5 hardware games) then be it... not for me tho, I learned my lessons with PS4 Pro and PS VR. not gonna get me this time around Sony. No, dude.
@Shalooda For me this gen has been about the load times. That was the main reason for the upgrade as the exclusives themselves are rather limited. The DualSense is a nice bonus. The PS6 needs to justify its price with more that just graphics and frame rates to justify a price that high. A disc drive for starters and if it can play all your old discs for PS5, PS4 as well as PS3 then I would be there day 1 for a higher price than the PS5 Pro.
@NEStalgia "meanwhile plenty of that accomplished guys are proven to have had no idea what they were doing"
I have to somewhat disagree. Internet people will point out all the mistakes these higher ups make as if they have some crystal balls. Most armchair experts didn't expect things like Minecraft or Genshin Impact to be that successful before they launched. Had they failed, they would have been acting all smug saying "they shouldn't have green-lit this! What were they thinking?". I mean, they don't know if Factions 2 was any good, yet are convinced that it was a mistake to cancel it.
@naruball Yeah, I don't necessarily mean on an individual game level. The armchair experts don't know that, but frankly, neither do the executives. It's all just a gamble. But where many armchair experts have a clue where then 7-figured clueless executives don't seem to is the overall and longer term strategies. Not just in gaming, look at (in the US) the big retailer collapses, various other corporate collapses. Every one of them was obvious as day to the rabble, but the execs kept on trucking in the wrong direction sure of their genius (and some of them did so knowingly, skimming off the top for a cash out, of course.) Countless strong brands, good stores/products gone, not because the brand or product wasn't desirable, or could even not have been at the top, but because it was mismanaged into the ground. There's been more company closures due to blatant mismanagement than actual brand failure or lack of product demand. Just because their daddy could buy their way into Yale, doesn't mean they're actually smart.
Sub-50% buy-in on a dedicated, hardcore PS website isn't promising. You can't spin this.
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