Jennifer Hale Says AI Is Coming for All of Us

No! No way! Ai is a threat.

I seem to remember from my history lessons that in the 15th century the printing press was going to destroy jobs for the entire industry of scribes, when in reality it was what paved the way for a revolution, uplifting society around the world.

There was a backlash from the entertainment industry about CGI replacing real sets and less work for trades, but instead it opened up new opportunities in the digital realm, and tradesmen still had work on sets anyway.

There was a backlash against steam trains. There was a backlash against robots in factories. There was a backlash against computers.

History shows every time there's a significant technology introduced there's fierce resistance from someone who thinks its the end of their particular trade, and while there obviously is an impact on it, the common trend is that it opens more doors than it closes.

Personally, I'm more bothered about the politicisation of language, compelled speech, and a future where calling a woman an actress is somehow wrong so we need to say actor for fear of not conforming.

AI I'm sure will be abused by a minority, there are unscrupulous businesses, that's inevitable. But the danger of AI isn't in the realm of voice acting, it in the dissemination of information and the bias it will introduce from companies like Google, which we've already seen overtly.

It’s a tool, a phenomenal one, the problem is if people aren’t retrained to use it.

@riceNpea
+1

@Frmknst
The distinction is irrelevant. Sure, it “creates”, in the same way humans do (by using their experience and exposure to past work and turning that into a unique derivative); humans are tools also, doing a specific job for a company.

The Protheans did try to warn us.

@riceNpea You seriously defending AI taking jobs? AI isn't being used to help grow its being used to cut costs and cheaping art.

@Frmknst AI is a tool that will change the world. All of those examples he/she gave are of tools that changed the world. And we are still here.

You just do not want to see the similarities between AI and the last piece of bogeyman tech that came along.

@DennisReynolds All technology is abused by the rich against the poor. ALL OF IT. The solution however isn't to embrace the way of the luddite and try to stand in the way of technological progress.

@themightyant agreed, what you say is what has happened every other time there's been a paradigm shift in tech and I don't see this as being anything different.

I don't begrudge that these actors and actresses are worried about their future, that's normal and consistent with precedents set, like the ones I've mentioned.

What's really worrying is the attack on free speech in the name of protecting society from exposure to ideas and thoughts that don't align with one set of political ideology citing minority extremism being enough to justify it, contrary and a flagrant breach of the country's own constitution.

Brazil suspending X and criminalising its population if they access it is a real threat to personal freedom across the world. The 6th largest nation in the world has issued a totalitarian measure, mass censorship, and the rest of us need to be worried because we have already felt the creep of the restriction of expression entering our society.

@DennisReynolds no I'm not. As usual with me you're missing my point and reducing it down to some gotcha moment. I'm not advocating anything, I'm highlighting the parallels throughout history of tech being seen as the end of an industry....and I went on to elucidate the real danger or AI, a point you totally ignored.

Seriously, if you want to talk to me why not engage maturely instead of the faux outrage? If you don't agree that's obviously fine and welcome but have the decency to ask me to clarify my point if you don't agree, or rebutt it, rather than go for a strawman.

What are your actual thoughts on the matter, forget what I think, what is your opinion on what is happening with AI and the broader implications of its inevitably pervasive introduction into our civilisation?

@DennisReynolds I'm just saying we had warnings, and at least they were smart enough to make lazer rifles before Skynet in the Terminator series.

AI thinks are .... well, fake. It is not that it created something, it just steals and uses already ready things. It does not create, it fakes.

@WhiteRabbit

I repsect that you feel that way, its not uncommon to see, especially these days since Covid where politics seems to have insinuated itself into most things.

My counter to that is free speech isn't there to protect what you agree with. When you use censorship like that the day will come when your speech will be declared 'wrong-thought' and you will be silenced and cowed.

@WhiteRabbit wait, you're happy the censored got censored? so you like censoring? so you should be unhappy the censored got censored?! or happy because censoring censoring is still censoring?! I think you created a paradox ^_^

@Jamesblob not taking any sides here, as it is a complicated topic, but to be fair, the impact on you is maintaining games at an acceptable quality level, while dropping costs and thus risk. Games are expensive to make and have uncertain success. Not saying AI is the solution, nor that everybody should be fired to make room for AI; but on the other hand, there's no free lunch, someone has to pay the cost of making games, or cost have to go down.

@WhiteRabbit see, I respect you but you don't extend that to me. You say I'm fear-mongering when I'm not. I'm expressing an opinion and in no way am I trying to spread fear.

Why are you behaving that way? Why are you ok with doing that to me when I'm trying to talk to you like someone who's point of view I don't agree with at all but respect? It's not a good look for you and frankly it the kind of action you accuse me of doing. Don't you see the hypocrisy?

@riceNpea
Total freedom of speech is not a good thing either - no one should have the right to a freedom to bully, or a freedom to encourage/manipulate others in order to cause harm to another person or persons.
Total freedom of speech is not the answer, neither is total censorship, but a happy medium is not the easiest thing to achieve.

In the case if AI, I think the same thing applies, and it needs to be used carefully.

@themightyant no, you're right...it was a paragraph I added to the end of my actual point but it seems to have had an effect i didnt anticipate.

@riceNpea My opinion on AI is its already being heavily abused by the entertainment industry and its also a worrying sign our world is relying on a computer to cut costs.

Its kinda funny really i rewatched T2 the other day for the 1000th time and its amazing how James Cameron predicted so much regarding the Skynet side of things. Yeah sure we aren't getting killer cyborgs that time travel but we are in a reality where the idea of AI having access to stuff like nukes isn't fiction. You could say i'm being stupid well watch T2 and take note of the origins of Skynet, Cameron predicted so much. Of course the current troubling sign is how people believe fake AI generated stuff, look at the fake AI crap Trump uses to get his cult rallied up or the crap Elon Musk will fake to spread fake news on his echochamper platform. AI is influencing the way people think and how they might decide their countries future and that's scary. Wanna know why Hale is really scared? Her voice can be used to say anything and everything someone else wants.

@Rich33 absolutely agree. I don't think any constitution in any country allows total freedom of speech, not even the American constitution which goes further than any. There are abuse laws in place for that kind of thing.

No, I'm talking about it in a broader sense and the overreach of authority using extremism as a sledgehammer to punish the vast majority of people who get caught up in the wake of the censorship.

@DennisReynolds thank you, good points that I agree with. And definelty food for thought.

(Edit: What you said about Hale is something I will definely consider. Thanks again)

As for Trump, its happening on both sides. Kamala's campaign is busy creating 'endorsements' from famous persons by clipping together phrases and editing them in a way that promotes here. She's being sued by various personalities over this. Both sides of the aisle is behaving badly but only one side is looking to use censorship to deny the other exposure.

I think its a bad idea to root for a political party like as if it were a football team. I am neither right wing or left wing. For some things I'm Conservative, for other I'm Liberal. To be fully on one side is to be captured by a single ideology which I think is more dangerous to society than having a brand range of political views.

@WhiteRabbit I'm not fear-mongering. Stop saying that. I am having a discussion with you that you don't agree with. I think I will leave our discussion because it isn't evolving into a healthy back and forth

@DennisReynolds „Cheaping art“: Most of the entertainment products out there, especially video games, are not art but kitsch. AI is great to create kitsch, it‘s quick and cheap.
I see the main problem in that studios are fine with creating kitschy video games. Generic woodlands, cities, enemies, bland dialogs. AI can help to create these parts, and the devs can improve them to get something more artistic and original than without AI.
And for the other studios which already create games of high artistic value by hand, nothing changes.

@Frmknst
Edit: wow! When you replied to me you only wrote two sentences. Now it's about five paragraphs!! Talk about moving the goalposts 😆😆😆

what tool was upgrade before the printing press? The steam engine? The computer? Those things represent a massive shift in society because of the impact they had. For example, before the printing press oridnary people were uneducated and the only people who were allowed to read were the Clergy, and that was enforced by the death penalty. The printing press marked the end of oppressive ignorance and total subjugation to the Church for all matters.

@DreamlandGem totally fair. I shall cease.

@riceNpea Just wanted to take the time to congratulate you on such a well articulated post (#2).
I came into this section with the intention of posting something similar, but I doubt I would have phrased it quite as well.

The world is a very dynamic place and some changes will unfortunately affect the relevance of some people's skills. Many concept artists I've used in the past for games design are now finding it very hard to land a gig. I tried using AI generated concepts in different styles recently and was slightly saddened that the results were so good so quickly, that I'd probably not use a single human concept artist again for this type of work. Its a shame, but you cannot 'uninvent' technology.

@themightyant eeek! There's loads of Rogan ones I've seen.

I do feel bad for the voice actors and actresses, don't get me wrong. The less famous ones will lose work, no doubt. And I don't think Hale is wrong for pointing it out, but for me it's fatalism she exhibits that I don't agree with. Things will change, the cat is out of the bag, so I think her energies would be better spent preparing for it then trying to demonise it because it'll be her Moby Dick.

I could be totally wrong about all of this, I concede. I'm not an authority in anything, but AI is definelty our generations 'industrial revolution' that will transform civilisation at a fundemntal level and voice acting is just a single symptom of the cytokine storm we are about to face.

@Titntin very kind of you to take the time to say that.

@springer17 completely off topic - love your Avatar! Springer was my favourite character from G1 Wreckers!

WRECK AND RULE!!

@riceNpea well the factory workers getting replaced by robots did happen I mean America really lost its industry in the last few decades cuz of it also with outsourcing to foreign markets

Nope, it's way too dangerous.

There's got to be a fair rate that can be paid to VAs based on how much of their voice is used which would allow them to licence their voice to studios for use in a GenAI and for specific projects. I'd imagine it is less than the amount they would be paid for actually having to go into a booth, but more than nothing.
Games, film projects, audiobooks, etc, will one day advertise "recorded with real voice over" to distinguish themselves once the technology becomes overused/abused.

You're right, @themightyant; some people will lose their jobs, but other will now find one.

AI is one of those things that will change the course of human history (hopefully for the better!), and it may even lead to that Utopia that has long been dreamed of where none of us work, and we all lead lives as equals, waited on by robots driven by AI, and all equally provided a decent living wage by the Government. It'll be a while, but AI could well be the start of all that.

Science fiction? Maybe not...

So it's finally happening huh...man vs machine.

I mean, @themightyant, I entirely agree, but I am talking way off in the future, and I'll be long gone before then!

Who knows, maybe this time next century we'll either be lounging by the pool being fed grapes by super attentive robots, or... those robots will be treading on our bleached skulls as they hunt down the last remaining survivors of humanity... 🤣

AI should be used sparingly and as a tool by people (and certainly not to manipulate people).
The trouble is that over cost cutting will lead to abuses of the technology, which will negatively affect certain areas to such an extent that people in general will wish for decades to come that we could go back to a pre AI situation.
Voice acting could be one of those and I somewhat agree with @StrickenBiged when he commented about games of the future advertising "recorded with real voice over".

AI can be used in positive ways too, but I fear there are just as many ways to abuse it as there are positive ways to use it.
We need to ask what is more prevalent in the games industry - the desire to make good games, or the desire to make money.

The title really sounds like a quote from Sarah Connor.

@Fiendish-Beaver
You more or less covered it in your last comment (#50), but what happens when this AI and its robots, which serves and provides for us, just decides that we are no longer needed, and reclassifies the human race from "masters" to "vermin".
(Im sure there was a popular series of films about that).

I always find funny that its people from the art department losing their marbles when it comes to AI, it won't hit them and if it hits it will be probably on things that affects the pipeline and not them directly.

Its more cost effective to apply AI when it comes to coding than it is when it comes to 3D modeling, sound, mocap and so on, since code is easier to automate and doesn't depend on things like "artistic style".

@riceNpea although I don’t like the idea of AI. Not a single lie was told. Great post!

Ai will effect everyone, no matter what your career is. Pretty scary stuff.

@SwissCheese we've been asked to keep it on topic so I have. I would be happy to discuss with you where I think we differ in what I am saying, and your views, but that will ha e to be another time.

@AhmadSumadi thank you Ahmad.

AI is absolutely a threat to the voice acting industry.

There's a certain difference between people getting replaced by machines at the conveyor belt and actors, writers, musicians being made redundant. I prefer a fully voiced game with real actors but at some point it won't be possible to tell a difference. It's a little alarming for sure.

@riceNpea that last paragraph about what you’re bothered by has nothing to do with the topic so i will ignore that little random rant at the end.

The issue is simple all those examples don’t disprove the worry, the issue isn’t that jobs in general will be gone it’s that the need for that skill set will dropped a lot.

Why have 10 artists when now you only need 1.
Will the economy be fine? Yes.
will this generate new and different jobs? Yes.
will people lose their jobs? Yes

You are right it will open doors but that is not what they fear, their fear is the specific door that is closed(or harder to open)
Creative door.
And it affects waaaaaaay more discipline all at once, actors, writers, artists etc.
And the job that it will introduce are far less appealing to a creative (it really gets the creative juices flowing being in a team of two fixing a generated content).

Out of interest what job do you do?

I'm commander Shepard, and this is (not) my favorite AI on the citadel🤭🤭

As usual it’s the misuse of tech that is the issue, not the tech itself. And that isn’t gonna stop because of humans not tech.

@riceNpea If you see X as a good platform then you are lost already. AI creates nothing if you it a blank page it won't make anything. AI uses stolen art and does jot compensate any of the artist.

Even with the possibility that AI creates good stuff it's still owned by the rich and I never met a good rich person that is in it to make the world a better place.

AI will be used to make poor even more poor and have less options. If you even look at AI art it's all the same boring stuff because it has no idea of its own. It's good for basic boring tasks. Fake news, dangerous bad information it's just not there.

@Nalodart electrical engineer.

Yes, I agree with you, it will have far reaching consequences and will revolutionise many industries not just the one Hale is in. To me it will be as far reaching as the industrial revolution and it will bring in a new age.

@Nalodart Will it make a better world with more changes for all.

NO

Will it increase the gap between rich and poor yes.

@Flaming_Kaiser I haven't advocated for any platform. Its censorship that im concerned with. I'm sorry FK, I'm not going to expand on it as we've been asked to stay on topic. About AI, I agree with you that it is going to change everything and I am worried about it. We are already seeing how Google and others are influencing how AI responds to input from the public in a fashion that isn't balanced or objective. And I agree that it could make human interactions hard to trust.

@IamJT good points, well made and it would make for a good discussion.

@Flaming_Kaiser sadly I agree with you, it will make the world worse and more creatively bankrupt.

The most inspiring thing about acting, voice acting, writing and art is that people creating or performed it.
If an AI did 80% of the creation it’s the AI’s “creation” and it loses all appeal it’s not impressive, inspiring or anything it loses its magic.

Could you if basketball for example just had one player on each team and all they had to do is pass the ball to a robot arm to shot for them.

@riceNpea ah so you don’t have a creative job, do you have a creative hobbies at least?

And if you don’t have any really (which is fine) what’s the best part about your job?

I have to disagree, this my friend is not a revolution to me…I usually find the people that say that are people that don’t or can’t create themselves (but I may be off base in relation to you so my bad if I am)

@Nalodart I do have a creative job. I design electrical installations. The revolution I speak of is AI in general as it permeates into all levels of society. I think the ultimate expression of it will be to enable greater control. It's the balance between beneficial advancements and more State interference in our lives, for example social credit systems, that I worry about.

@riceNpea

That still sounds more technical (like creative problem solving) and less expressive but okay as I am not in that field it would be ignorant of me to try assume.

So would you say designing these electrical installations requires a lot of skill and is the highlight of the job?

AI has a place in technical and medical advancements, but creative things like art needs the human element and a lot of it.

AI is not taking away her "ability to feed her children." In the unlikely event that AI takes the job of even the most prolific voice actors, society provides plenty of other ways to earn an income. I would use the Joe Biden's sound advice for coal miners losing their job of "just learn to code" but it sounds like AI is making monumental leaps to simplify that field as well.

@Nalodart imagine you have an empty building....design how that building it going to be lit depending on requirements of each room, personal preferences, requests, taking into account the functionality of the lights, decorative or perfunctory, type of light, hue, capacity and so on. Then add in power outlets and the parameters a customer may want there. Then calculate optimal routes, sizing, placements, loads. Then think about doing all that again with controls, access, security and data, fire prevention. Then design the exterior's lighting and power.

It's not art but it all has to be done with aesthetics as a top priority. Oh, and I'm also a time-served tiler specialising in granite, porcelain and marble because my father was a stonemason. I've tiled temples in marble so beautiful it's fills one with awe to see it finished.

If children want to protect themselves from AI, I recommend that one way is to learn a trade.

@Zenos "Good news tbh. Tired of entitled voice actors."

Dear God. Some people...

@riceNpea

So it’s planning with a good eye for aesthetics, sounds like a good job.
I sense a great deal of pride when you mentioned tiling temples in marble, and I agree marble is beautiful.

So if they automated all the more creative parts from your job(didn’t do the job as well but good enough) let go half of the industry and paid who was left less money as the unique skills you have are less needed.
How would you feel about that? (Genuine question not attacking)

@Zenos why do you think they are entitled for worrying about losing their job out of curiosity?

@Nalodart that is already a thing. Computers can do what I do in regards of design. A computer can create architecture and yet architects are not redundant.

To be clear my job also involves installing all that stuff too. Yes, the tiling is by far more satisfying for the soul because it's more like art than electrics is. Nobody appreciates the 'artistry' of a house and how it got to be the way it is.

@riceNpea

So tiling is the one that speaks to your soul, my point still stand what if that satisfying element was gone or heavily minimised, how would you feel?

“ Nobody appreciates the 'artistry' of a house and how it got to be the way it is”
I bet that can be a bit frustrating.

But this is also the fear with AI taking creative roles though, no one will appreciate it if it’s just something a AI spat out and maybe an artist cleaned it up

It will lose its magic.

@Nalodart I would be saddened in the same way I've seen trades like making guitars and saddles (I pick them because they were skills once in the family generations ago) have become specialised because of the inevitable rise of technology. So now there isn't a steady stream of apprectices learning those two particular trades like there once was and forthcoming generations have migrated to other modes of employment. But there's still demand for human creativity in those two areas in my family's home town in Spain because people still value true talent.

So, in essence I agree with you, AI will replace human produced art in the name of convenience, and I am genuinely sorry that in the short term it will have a serious impact on people. However, as consumers we do have the power to influence how pervasive AI is in this field. We can choose to not buy AI-driven products and we can seek to support traditional work.

Edit: BTW I could be wrong about everything. I'm no expert.

@Zenos
Not sure that makes then entitled if you personally don’t value their job but fair enough.

What jobs in entertainment do you think are important then?

@riceNpea oh wow sorry to hear that, it must suck to see trades like that have their demand shrink.

“ However, as consumers we do have the power to influence how pervasive AI is in this field. We can choose to not buy AI-driven products and we can seek to support traditional work.”

Yes and this is the exact reason artists are speaking out loudly now if they stay silent people wouldn’t know or talk about it like we are now.

Most artist don’t even want it stopped just regulated properly, because right now it is not and it need to be addressed.

@Nalodart I don't see how they can ask for regulation for that when so many trades and skills have been made surpassed by technology throughout history. Voice acting is not an essential profession that needs protecting or becomes hazardous if not humanly supervised. What does need regulating is passing off AI as human, and that's where we can hold to account companies via transparency, which will in turn allow us to choose whether or not we support human or AI products. There is where the we can show that we value human input over AI and make companies retain workers.

@riceNpea

“What does need regulating is passing off AI as human, and that's where we can hold to account companies via transparency, which will in turn allow us to close whether or not we support human or AI products. There is where the we can show that we value human input over AI and make companies retain workers.“

That’s exactly one of the things they are fighting for regulations though.

By that logic no profession is technically essential and most if not could be replaced with technology with enough enivitable advancements, but the appeal of creative ventures like writing, art, acting etc. is that humans are doing it just like sports.

If you lose that you lose the appeal, which is the reason they want companies to be transparent (and not use artists work to train their AI without consent)

@Nalodart I'm on board with that.

@Frmknst @riceNpea You both make good points. One one hand "Luddites" were "wrong" and the invention of new tools improved some things while making some people irrelevant. On the other hand, AI is something different, it doesn't make one thing irrelevant while creating something new, it simultaneously makes everything other than itself irrelevant all at once which is unprecidented, and is what makes it different that industrial automation upgrades to manual tools and technologies of the past. It doesn't enhance the productivity of tasks. It eliminates tasks by doing it, basically, outside the free market economy.

What I would more closely compare, in human economy terms, the future of AI to is not industrial revolution, but rather, the rise of a slave economy. Since the dawn of man, humans have, at every turn sought to enslave swaths of population to create controlled, nearly-free, compulsory labor so that those with resources can hold their resources, and all needed tasks are performed at little to no cost, by captive, automatic, labor compelled to perform any dictated labor with no share of the reward more than the minimum required to maintain their ability to continue functioning well enough to continue performing compulsory labor.

The only reason slavery is "nearly (but not totally) ended" in the modern world, is that pesky handwringing about the ethical cruelty of capturing and selling humans as a product forced to operate as puppets. Now we can manufacture electronic slaves. None of the pesky ethical handwringing of having to capture and condition humans to perform comulsory labor, all of the benefits of enslaved laborers.

Where it becomes a pending economic catastrophe instead of a new era of new opportunities like an industrial revolution lies not in the new but the old problems of a slave economy. The entire design does nothing but ensure that the monied and powerful retain all their wealth and power while eliminating all opportunity for anyone else. In old slave economies there were the wealthy houses, eternal, the enslaved classes, and a peasant in between that didn't live much better than the slaves but were "free" to a point. AI threatens this exact model returning. It isn't new. It's old. Very very old. It isn't progress. It's regression back to dead and buried models shackling humanity once again. We've now invented slaves that can neither resist, nor pose an ethical challenge to pull at the heartstrings. A natural born slave class, living in datacenters. Just like every other natural born slave class across human history. No ethics required.

Unfortunately for everyone except those already holding wealth and power, slave economies and market economies can not coexist. That alone was the entire impetus of the US civil war. One faction rejecting slave economics, one embracing it. The one rejecting it could not exist wile the slave economy competed against it. Thus force was necessary.

How do we force an end to an AI slave economy? Burn the datacenters to the ground?

@riceNpea Since you mentioned Brazil, and I happen to live here, besides broadly agreeing with your points, here's another frightening fact: our Supreme Court has just imposed its biggest assault on our democracy yet (not the first one), and it feels like nothing has happened. Almost nobody around me would begin to care.

It's exactly the frog in the hot water analogy. And a cautionary tale, as you pointed out.

@ApostateMage And yet, one of the loyal companions in ME3 IS an AI... And she saved the Normandy - AND the Galaxy.

Im a huge supporter of AI. I heard an AI Mariah Carey cover of Justin Timberlake’s ‘Selfish’ and it sounded exactly like her. It was amazing. Most singers don’t even sing live these days anyway. If it’s already fake, why not cut out the middle man? Imagine a new album by AI-my Winehouse or Whitn-AI Houston. So many opportunities.

Same applies to the gaming industry. Let the AI do the crunch if it means we get new games on time.

@riceNpea thanks, exactly my thoughts! All technology can, was, is and will be used for the bad by a minority of people (or, if thinking in war machines, even by governments). But overall, humanity advances. Ai is just another piece in the puzzle of evolution.
Hale by herself would not have her current job without advanced technology, so quite the hypocrite...

@riceNpea 100% agree with you. Some of your detractors in the comments section also make valid points but nowhere near as eloquently. Wish I could give more likes but you'll just have to take the one.

@Northern_munkey thank you for saying so.

@mazzel I think AI suplanting a few voice actors is a byproduct of the real impact AI is going to have across all of society.

@riceNpea for sure, in my work environment, it is a big topic as well. Usually only the people who are afraid of change and are not willing to get out of their comfort zone will complain.
I see AI as a big chance to handle the complexity of our "world" and the future complexity, which will be created because of AI as well.

Full solidarity with Mrs Hale and all artists in the entertainment industry meat grinder! ✊

@MrMeeeseeeks tone deaf comment

@Nalodart This is going to sound weird even the adult stuff I lazy. It's all looks the same with the same style. 😅

But seriously it's like a Ubisoft with art it's all the same no original thought. And people saying that they can replace humans if the human population does not create new art everything will be a mishmash of the same stuff in the end.