PS5 Exclusives Final Fantasy 16, Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth Failed to Meet Expectations

I honestly believe the fact that it is a direct sequel has lowered sales more than people think. Does anyone consider this a game to jump into without playing the first? People who have the first on their waiting list (very possible with RPG fans) prob wouldn't even consider it as an impulse buy until they've played 1.

Unfortunate as I love both games and I'd have liked to see them perform much better, although to be fair you can count on one hand how many titles have "met expectations" when it comes to Square.

Fingers crossed the devs for the remake trilogy will still be able to craft the final game exactly the way they want to, without budget restrictions or corporate meddling.

I used to absolutely adore Final Fantasy. Now it could die tomorrow and I wouldn't notice.

Given that DD2 sales is considered a flop by Square's standards, yet it is celebrated at Capcom, I wonder what are the metrics they use for their expectations...

Can anyone here name a SE title that they say performed to expectations? I can't think of any... nothing ever performs well for them and won't until they rethink their leadership team.

I think - and I'm sure others will disagree here - I do wonder if Rebirth may have done better if it had been released on the PS4 in particular. I'm not sure if Rebirth could even work on that format - I imagine it would require a lot of re-working and compromise. However, as Remake was already on PS4, I suspect they missed out on many, many sales from people who would have enjoyed continuing the story on a platform that remains very popular to this day. Other platforms would have helped too, of course, but that was the one I think they really missed out on.

I think a multiplatform strategy is a good call for Square Enix in future - it will help (and FF7 is a classic, should be enjoyed by all). Yet, I also think the real problem is the episodic nature of the FF7 remake series - it is an odd approach, if I'm honest. Like who is going to jump into the second game if they had not picked up the first? In a game exclusively on the PS5? You can just see the potential market getting smaller and smaller. Two games across PS4 and PS5 would have been fine.

Rebirth remains a delight - truly something special and still GOTY in my view (although I have not played Astro yet). It is amazing and games this size and technical excellence don't come along all that often (and may not in the future the way costs are rising). Yet, even as good as it is - it is a classic example of development 'creep' too - there are things that could probably be cut that would have saved money (and helped pacing in the game itself).

@Titntin only FFXIV comes to mind, it probably feeds the whole company.

Literally all they have to do is develop a turn based game for the Switch or Switch 2 and they’ll sell boatloads in Japan. They definitely seem to have been chasing Western sales the last decade or so and I’m not entirely sure it’s panned out.

@get2sammyb Its demonstrably untrue. There have been many, many massive sales successes.

It is not ff anymore in my opinion. I did not like ff7 remakes changes to the story and ABSOLUTELY dont appreciate the action direction they took.

@nessisonett Bravely Default II, two Octopath Traveller games. Neither sold "boatloads".

I don't mind the next entries launching on multiple platforms but I'm not sure it would change that much.
FF16 doesn't seem to be doing huge numbers on PC now...

FF16 has had a peak of 13.9k on steam, FF7 Remake had a peak of around 13.5k.

This doesn’t equate to success either and we all know Xbox players do not buy RPGs en masse that aren’t from Bethesda and even those aren’t bought anymore with Gamepass.

So good luck getting those extra sales Square! Wonder how long till they blame the economic climate and delve into Web 3 shenanigans.

I guess the biggest problem is that they try to hard to appeal to the western market that it ended up not appealing to the japanese market anymore which made up a big amout of sales

For me personally, Final Fantasy 16 was better than I expected, becoming top 3 in the series alongside FF4 and FF6. Sure, it has some technical issues, but the story and characters are what make the experience for me, and Clive is simply unmatched as far as protagonists go. FF7 Rebirth was good even with the lackluster visuals on performance mode. It’s not as good as 16 to me because I have never been a FF7 super fan, but still appreciate it.

Yeah, what do you expect when you launch as a ps5 console exclusive and have unrealistic sales targets? Missing out both the PC and Xbox markets is obviously going to result in lower sales.

If you want to maximise sales, you launch on as many marketplaces as possible. If you’re being paid for exclusivity, you need to adjust your sales targets accordingly and accept that you’re being financially compensated for those sales losses.

The Tomb Raider reboot in 2013 was pretty successful, but it failed to meet Square Enix’s internal sales targets, despite achieving 3.4 million sales pretty soon after release and going on to become the best selling game in series history.

Could one of the causes, or perhaps the main cause, be that Square Enix's expectations were characteristically unrealistic?

Has any game they’ve released ever met their expectations?

@TrickyDicky99 I'm one of them, I play the big exclusives and the freebies with my plus subscription, other than that I play way way too much Overwatch

This was obvious for a while based on the charts but a lot of people were in deep denial. Both these games fell off quick had weak legs.

For me personally, I now only buy a select few games at launch that I know I’m going to love (Eiyuden being the only one this year on PS5). I finally got FF16 at Christmas when it was on sale for £30 and my opinion of it was that it was very pretty looking, but it felt a slog to get through and didn’t really feel like a Final Fantasy game with little humour. I’m very glad I didn’t spend £70 on it.

Because I was feeling fatigued by 16, I held back on getting FF7R yet, and it seems I was right to. I have loved a lot of the 2D stuff Square Enix has been putting out, but I feel they’ve jumped on a Western bandwagon to make Final Fantasy like every other Playstation Action Adventure/Open World-ish thing.

Unrealistic Enix expectations + exclusive to PS5 = Poor Sale Numbers.

The good thing is that Final Fantasy titles won't be locked by Sony, as most of them are available everywhere. Besides, if XVI was the most successful, XVII would be even shallower in terms of gameplay. Exclusivity wasn't the only problem with XVI, but exclusivity fatally hurt sales of Final Fantasy games like VII Rebirth, a better one. The also controversial XV is one of the most commercially Final Fantasy games ever and it launched on PS, Xbox and PC. XIV is also successful, even on Xbox where it arrived very late. So yes, exclusivity knock Final Fantasy sales down. Capcom, Sega, Bandai Namco and From Software are more intelligent.

@DonJorginho the reason why the peak numbers are low is because they didn’t launch day and date and lost out on the launch hype. Go look at LAD infinite wealth’s numbers and p3 reload numbers. Launching day and date on all platforms help, mainly PC.

@nessisonett They're constantly releasing turn-based games on the Switch. Octopath Traveler 1 & 2, Dragon Quest 11 S, Bravely Default 2, Live a Live, SaGa: Emerald Beyond, soon Dragon Quest 3 HD-2D. There's more to Square-Enix than just the blockbuster releases.

They always do this. It seems if every game they release doesn’t meet the sales forecasted then maybe their sales forecasts are overly optimistic.

Also, what’s going on with all these ads making the screen hop around like an epileptic jumping bean?

Ff7 Rebirth is locked on a platform that hasnt sold as well as the PS4. When it goes on PC it'll sell more. Its just that simple

Considering even Tomb Raider 2013 failed to reach Square Enix's expectations, I'm pretty sure the real problem is Square Enix's expectations. Multiplatform will probably lead to more sales but Square Enix's expectations would also be higher which cancels out the gains from multiplatform.

I also think Jim Ryan is to blame. Naturally the actions of a platform holder affects 3rd party exclusives and Jim Ryan did a lot of damage to the Playstation brand.

I'm just waiting for them to finish the game (FFVII) and release it as a bundle. I'm not paying 210$ (70 x 3) to play a remake, no matter how much content they cram into each "episode". From what I've seen I'm sure I'll enjoy it, but I'm a patient man. 😁

FFXVI haven't caught my attention at all, something about it's style/identity seems kinda meh to me. Might pick it up at a later date.

So... given that FFXIV is successful i don't think it's that FF isn't popular. I think it's just the change of genre. I think many FF fans simply prefer turn based party gameplay.
I am very curious to see how such a game would perform.

Also, we can't forget that the japanese market used to be huge for final fantasy and playstation simply failed to attract in that market. Had FF been on the switch i think yes, sales would have been vastly improved. Heck, it should've released on the PS4 as well to minimize that impact.

I really don't think launching in Xbox would've made a dent. PC might help a bit, but it is very overrated how important that market is.

PS fanboys won’t like to admit it but for 3rd party games they need to launch on all platforms (mainly pc). Looking at every other major AAA 3rd party Japanese publisher and they are all doing way better and it’s no coincidence that they all have a renewed focus on launching everywhere. Do Xbox’s releases really help, no probably not, but if they are doing a pc port anyways why not take the extra time to also do a Xbox port and have the chance at eventually getting a game pass deal. It’s no coincidence that Capcom, Sega/Atlus, Brandi Namco, Fromsoftware are all hitting new success records cause of increasing where they release games.

@Dalamar Neither have the Final Fantasy name.

This isn't the only problem but I think they need to ditch the numbering system on the games. 16? Really? Not everyone has been gaming since the 90s, and younger people don't know that these are more or less completely disconnected games.

@J-Dubs What does it matter? Everyone knows every entry is a completely new game. If anything it should get new fans interested in the history of the franchise if they enjoy it. So, it trickles down.

@Fishmasterflex96 it’ll add some extra numbers but it won’t make them become successes like they want lmao, that did a great job for their other titles that were also on PC

Is there any moment when Square Enix is actually happy with the sales numbers? As far as I'm concerned even if it sold 10 million SQ will still say it perform below expectations. Is been a running joke with them anyway.

2 things...
1. Square always seems to have incredibly unrealistic expectations.
2. The budgets for their games are a bit out of control and need to reeled back in.

Perhaps study how some of the competition is conducting their business. Falcom for example isn't selling insane amounts of copies all the time but they properly budget their games according to their expected sales and so are able to create a pretty sustainable business for themselves.

Hello, my name is Square "didn't meet expectations" Enix.

FFXVI's biggest problem is the fact that it isn't really a Final Fantasy.

Unrealistic expectations then. But also (Speaking as someone who has purchased a lot of SE games in the past):

FF16 - Framerate was appalling - played demo, didnt buy (laughable considering PS5 was the only version they needed to get right).

FF7 rebirth - Didnt buy as was put off by the story of part 1 (I am informed the parts of the story that put me off were the new to remake parts). Graphics also not good.

FF16 probably hasn't even sold 4 million yet. That's not really that high expectations for a game they put a lot of marketing into, when it sold 3 million upfront.

Legs were just terrible.

@Nem No they don't.

@Ashkorsair
🍻

It's true what some say about Square Enix's exaggerated expectations, but I think that with their new CEO and strategy, that will also change progressively.

@J-Dubs Not really. The best thing about Final Fantasy games is that the games are barely connected to each other, except the obvious sequels, but keep some common elements like the name of the spells. The first FF game I played was VII and I was curious about the older games soon after. I know that VII and XV were the first FF for many players and they played older games afterwards.

@DonJorginho sega/atlus seems to be finding great success launching day and date on pc. It’s clear and obvious Square’s strategy of doing console exclusivity at launch isn’t working with how much they are expecting to make. Infinite wealth has a record of 46,000 and p3 reload has a record of 36,000. I love both of those games but they are smaller ip then FF. So if the next major FF launches day and date on pc and is as good as the last 3 major FF games they are going to find major success. It’s either they need to release games on more platforms or make cheaper budgeted games.

The last half of FF XVI failed to meet my expectations.

@Yagami I found the tone and storytelling to be very interesting. This could in part be due to me playing FF14 for a decade and being that guy who reads all of the side quests, which FF16’s side quests felt very similar to in style. But my biggest draw to Clive and the main storyline is his character growth. Of all the FF protagonists through the years, Clive is singularly the one with the greatest reason to be dark, angry, and a brooding emo boy, but he’s the complete opposite. I really liked watching how he grew through pain and loss to become selfless and lay down his life for those he loved.

@add286 The FF7R remake is taking so long i dont even buy them at releases anymore. The optimisation is also not that great for a platform exclusive .

And why so much filler if they remade the game with the new gameplay like it was with less filler the game would have been a lot cheaper to make. They could have made a extra FF entry with the same costs.

Also how many sales does Final Fantasy 7 has on several platforms in total as much as i love Final Fantasy 7 the game just isnt something like a COD releaseeven if they really want it to be.

Foamstars was a terrible game if you could even call it a game before i even entered the i was done with with lack of content and the amount of monetization. Forspoken wasnt that great the best thing was the DLC.

They can be mad at Square-Enix but their games were quite dissapoiting and I have to agree with how many of their games really were up to their sales preferences anyway.

I think the problem is the release schedule. Too many FF games, pixel remakes etc released over a short period of time. They should have wrapped up the 7 remake triology before crisis core remake and 16 imo.

Part 3 is Sony exclusive in past interview they ask about the console version of the game they could not comment on it. But this se they always have crazy numbers they want their games to sell

@BIG3 how could they finish it up that quickly

@BIG3 That is a interesting reasoning they put Final Fantasy 16 in competition with FF7R and let's be real honest the remake takes way to long with all the useless extras.

@C25CLOUD The story was done almost two decades ago make it pretty and less nonsense.

They deserve better, especially Rebirth. It’s my new milestone for modern JRPGs. I guess being a direct sequel is its biggest problem.

@jrt87 This!
While I do believe exclusivity absolutely affects sales, these two games in particular released in technically inferior states in terms of fidelity and performance. I think this had a significant impact on sales and for a great many it mattered enough to compel waiting for a steep sale. Especially when performance improving patches literally never came.

I am one of those whom wants to play Rebirth but the blurry and literally unfinished polish I saw in the demo and just observation during release after compelled me to wait and wait I still am. Especially considering it looks considerably less clean than remake. Ff16 also had/has performance issues. However I held off on that due to SE choosing to simplify it down to largely a corridor driven linear action game and not a full fledged rpg.

@BIG3 problem is that releasing only on one system isn’t enough to cover the dev cost and the exclusivity deal isn’t enough to offset the dev cost. If the games are going to continue to be expensive they need to go full multiplat.

Releasing it on PC and Xbox really not going to add anything. FF is PlayStation and Nintendo.
So I can see them porting them all to switch 2

But ultimately it's not the PS1/2 era anymore, these single player FF games will not be as big as they were

A new, more traditional Final Fantasy game released day one on PC, PS5, and Switch 2 would probably sell well.

I know Square ports their games to other platforms, but a lot of the excitement has died off once you spend months or years waiting for it to hit your preferred platform.

@Anthony_Daniels literally every other major Japanese 3rd party publisher sales would show otherwise. Xbox is whatever but PC absolutely makes a difference

PS5 Exclusivity is not why these games "underperformed" at the end of the day FF just isn't the brand it used to be XVI was the first numbered entry since X that was actually great over two decades of mediocre and bad games will diminish faith in a brand not to mention tonnes of people complaining about the action combat. And Rebirth as I've pointed out numerous times sold poorly because of course it did VII "Remake" was an incredibly decisive game that completely split the community in two. Lots of people like myself absolutely hated what they were doing with the story and didn't buy Rebirth as a result of that (again I hate that I have to say this but no shade on people who like the VII R games but people are well within their rights to hate the story changes and it's obviously a contributing factor to Rebirths lower sales) People have simply lost faith in Square and are more hesitant about buying their games now Multiplatform releases won't change that

Maybe make the games cheaper? AAA industry is maddening right now. Like a bunch of idiots desperate to cram their games full of tech and then they continuously cry how they aren't making a bunch of money.

Your margins are too small ffs, stop filling games with crap no one asks for. FF7 Rebirth runs bad on the only platform it released on and is crammed full of mini games and garbage no one actually wants.

I absolutely loved XVI and was probably my GotY last year… I get that the combat felt more action-adventure than previous entries and that put series stalwarts off but it was a great game. Gutted it didn’t sell more as it deserved to be a huge success in my book.

Those steam numbers are still poor, and being on xbox isn't going to shift a lot of sales, wouldn't even sell a third the amount it does on playstation. So their only other option is to release them on the Nintnedo Switch which would mean downscaling the game quite a lot, and then making future games based on Nintendo's hardware.

Maybe then they will reach the sales figures they "expect", or just maybe people have lost faith in square enix and are more wary about buying their games day one and at full price, especially after flops like Foamstars, Forspoken, Babylons Fall and Avengers.

@get2sammyb bang on sammy, this guy is talking nonsense. it might be lackluster from a triple A point of view, but gaming is as big as it's ever been, and the indie scene is more creative and varied in the history of gaming. sur ethe industry has problems, but that's a symptom of spiralling AAA costs. I personally feel if someone thinks the gen has been lackluster, then they prbably have narrow taste in gaming. Gaming is better than it's ever been, not everything needs to push graphics forward.

I think that by the time these games released on the pc there was no longer any FOMO, the time had passed and other releases were in the limelight like baldurs gate 3 and elden ring. And by this point everyone knew what the final fantasy games were and were making informed decisions against another long long arpg that was a year or 2 old at the time.

Thought FF7:Remake was a 7 out of 10. Nothing spectacular. It's one of reasons why I had no interest in FF7:Rebirth.

@Kierant202 they would do much better on pc if they would release day and date. The old adage of you only have one first impression applies here. They miss out of the launch hype and don’t get the full zeitgeist

PS exclusivity isn't a problem when there's main FF like VII, VIII, IX, X, XI, and XII that released exclusively for PS and sold really well.

The biggest problem here is SE unrealistic expectations and going multiplat isn't gonna solve the problem.

Ff15 is one of the best selling in the franchise at over 10m. But Xbox only accounted for roughly 10% of that so Xbox can be left for later without much economic impact (unless they really needed that extra 1m or so sales)

I own the following ff games but have never actual gotten around to playing them:
ff7 original, ff remake (ps4 and ps5), ff13, ff13 pt2, ff13 pt3, ff14, ff15
I bought into the hype of getting then or they were free on ps plus. However, I hate turn based games and I don't actually know how these games play, and it's never clear until you actual start. That's why they keep getting pushed back for games I know I will enjoy. I wouldn't know where to start in my list and I certainly wouldn't buy any more as the games are too long.

The problem IMO is that FF as a series is facing an identity crisis for many years now. Resident Evil recovered once Capcom did their homework on what defines a Resident Evil game. Hopefully FF can find its feet again.

FF16 is a good game, but not a good FF. FF7 Remake is again a good game, but it is somewhere between a Kingdom Hearts and a FF, which didn’t help it given how loved the original is.

Bigger problems than exclusivity. It doesn’t really seem like FF anymore.

1) SE will never be happy!
2) FF16 had good story, but everything was killed by real-time battles and too many effects. In most fights I barely oriented and those uber-mega fights were just one huge effect noise. Most of times I won just by random smashing buttons, because I didn't even know what is going on.
3) FF7 remakes pretty suffered from real-time battles too. One huge chaos. And I'll never get why they cut FF7 into three pieces? I won't play it until it is complete.

@Balosi You’re not wrong, but Square tried to counter this with the Twin Pack. I actually jumped on the series myself because when you preordered the Twin Pack digitally you got Remake for free. Granted, I had some interest in the series already so I had a good feeling I’d end up enjoying it, but getting the first one for free was a nice incentive.

I’m still not sure how many people knew about that though and a sequel for such a story driven game is always going to be a tougher sell to newcomers. It’ll be interesting to see what they try when the third installment comes out.

As If they got released on Xbox, sales would explode. If they are not selling on PS5 & PC, then that’s it.

Square always says that about all of their games. Maybe the expectations are wrongly placed.

@Banjo- You might know people that did that, but what about the people that didn't play any of them because they don't know that the stories are not connected. I'm saying they are missing sales because of this numbering system. You might know the difference, but lots of people don't. You might anecdotally know people that played 7 then played 4 or whatever, but you probably don't know anyone who saw that 16 came out in 2023 and thought "***** i have to play 15 games before this." Its why God of War in 2018 wasn't "God of War 4."

Lol at people thinking Xbox is going to get those games. Xbox sales would be so low that it wouldn't make any differences. In fact porting the game would likely make them lose money.

Switch and Switch 2 aren't powerful enough for something like Rebirth and XVI. Yes I included Switch 2 because let's be realistic, it will be in the ballpark of base PS4 in term of power, so don't expect all AAA games to be ported to it.

If Nintendo have new hardware that can run the games as a reasonable resolution and fps, get FF7 Remakes and FF16 on there immediately. Gamepass money will also help build out long term profits post launch.

Sure, more formats will help FF sell more units, but the bigger issue is an overall brand issue, IMO. The games are stupidly expensive to make and regardless of whether they change the tone and core gameplay, ie. FF16, it's still a Japanese fantasy series that either doesn't appeal to everyone or is impenetrable or just the words Final Fantasy puts someone off.

I think the first thing they need to do is scale back their relentless pursuit of zomg graphics. This would allow them to be on Nintendo platforms, with mainline entries, save them money, and actually be where Japanese gamers are. Dragon Quest still sells gangbusters over there, and it is at least partly because most entries are on Nintendo hardware - plus, eventhough they still take years to make, they must be cheaper!

And for context, I haven't bought either Remake or Rebirth - I played Remake on Plus and loved it. I was really hype for Rebirth, and considered buying close to launch until every review mentioned open world bloat and I lost basically all interest - I still have it on my sale watch list and maybe I'll bite at Black Friday. As for 16, the style always looked dull and barely FF to me and the gameplay continues to stray so far from what I want out of FF that I was never interested a lick.

@Fishmasterflex96 I agree. Hopefully they will port them over to Xbox.

final fantasy should go back to it's roots turned based ... would not a hd-2d game for the next one.

@BIG3 would not sell well on xbox at all....being a full priced game...

SE always have stupid expectations that we know they don’t meet.

I don’t think it will do loads better multi platform. A little maybe.

To muddy the waters Sony will be paying a premium to have it as an exclusive which SE would then lose. So have to sell more for the same money.

@BIG3 they probably will. Think it’s the view of if they are going to port to pc which is the most cost effective move might as well do it for Xbox too cause you can maybe get a game pass bag eventually

I think there's more to it than just exclusivity deal. Like sure, that's part of it but I think there's more than that (also aside from Square's absurd expectations for their games).

I think it's about time Square takes the FF games back its roots of traditional turn-based. Hate to admit it but as much as I love FFXVI, its combat mechanic didn't land for many fans of the franchise. FFVII Rebirth's combat is amazing but not enough to entice people.

Not to mention, Persona 5, Honkai Star Rail, Yakuza 7 and the upcoming Expidition 33 are good sample that turn-based RPG can be good if done correctly in today's day and age where this genre is kinda niche

As far as rebirth goes I’m sure ppl also feel like they have plenty of time to play it before third one comes out - mine is actually still sitting unopened. And 16 and a good protagonist and cool world but man the side quests REALLY brought down the experience for me and it has very repetitive gameplay

Yep gaming is better than ever, and remasters aren't inherently bad. I've been gaming since 1990 and the level things are at now far outstrips anything I've seen. Sure, (as I wrote and you ignored) Triple AAA development is in the hole because of costs, but the industry will work that out eventually. I love gaming but you're coming off as super entitled. There's enough quality to keep us going for a lifetime as it is, the whole industry is oversaturated and Sonys 1st part output is utterly irrelevant with regards to my point. No offense but you come off as someone who seems to get off on perceived failure. You're not criticising at this point, it's disingenous flaming.

SE will still fail to meet their expectations going on the Xbox, also considering time spent to make a build for that system. Most of the user base for Xbox doesn’t care for these types of East Asian games. Historically PlayStation is home to these types of games. From the days when Sony treated the PS as a Japanese machine and not mostly western.

I don't even know what I want from a Final Fantasy game any more.

Its not that I'm unhappy with them, but when I try to think of my perfect FFXVII, I can't really imagine what that looks or plays like.

@jrt87
RE year to polish FF16

Oh dear, that game was one of the worst polished games in recent memory. It actually put me off SE to the point as soon as i heard about muddy graphics in FF7Rebirth i didnt even bother looking at the demo (though as I said before, and to be fair, i had already been put off by remakes story changes).

Not that they are an excuse for poor performance, but there isnt even any of the normal problems:

• Too much ambition over ability - the big battles in the demo seem to run ok, it was the normal areas that suffered.
• Ray tracing or similar - I dont think they had anything like this. (As we spoke about earlier removing this fixed Jedi Survivor on PS5).
• Lack of time to optimise - a year...
• Designing the game for high spec PC - PS5 Exclusive.

SE have really got to get it together and stop blaming exclusivity imo.

Oh boy I bet twitter is a minefield rn but I haven't dared check lol. Once again, I've never seen such scrutiny over any game or series quite like FF in recent years, it's insane

The thing is. They don't even say it's the FF exclusives. They're talking about their HD games segment and that includes a lot more than just FF

The remakes of 7 are excellent FF games in their own right.

16, however, was in my opinion, a plain bad FF game and a mediocre RPG.

Dull characters, no party to speak of and bland gameplay.

Personally I don't find Yoshi-P a particularly good game director.

I also think their poor sales are an indication of just how far the PS has fallen in it's home market.

The PlayStation arm of Sony is, to all intents and purposes an American concern now and I feel Japanese gamers recognise this.

I've been buying FF games since PS1 as they passed my by during the SNES days and haven't missed an installment, but good lord 16 was dull. It started off really strong with some great side quests and story content then descended into an absolute slog round about hour 20. I just didn't connect with most of the characters with the exception of CID, they were just irritating. I've been loving the 7 remake and can't wait for the third, I just hope there is still an industry there by the time they release it. Quality overall is going through the floor.

@ZoSo 100%

@Cloud39472 in this particular case, I think it does include the FF exclusives this time but not to the extent that they're the big reasons for this statement like a lot of these articles are making it seem like. When for all we know the other games probably did so bad that not even FF could help save SEs HD segment from falling profits. But I'm inclined to agree somewhat with the comment below mine in that it just shows how far PS has fallen. Altho in general tbh. I think Sony actively hurting the PS brand is to blame for, not just FF but plenty of others games too, not doing as amazing as they could have

And thanks, Sui Ishida's art is amazing 😝

Why are we so obsessed about sales numbers again?! FF7 remake/rebirth are absolute masterpieces. They'll still sell over a long period of time, especially when rebirth comes to pc and perhaps the trilogy on switch 2

@__Seraph I have to agree with you, gaming for me has never been better and the sales of hardware and software continue to be strong even with all these free to play games and mobile games taking up so much of people's time. Wukong, Elden Ring, HellDivers 2, Hogwarts Legacy, latest Zelda games and many others getting huge numbers. The amount of handheld PCs that are getting released also shows how strong console gaming is that even steam want in on the console market. Also I Personally think indie games are getting better and better and way more recognition than they've ever had before. Then there's the Korean and Chinese market kicking off and actually taking gaming seriously and putting out decent games.

The gaming market is as strong as it's ever been right now.

It's better this way, anyway!

FFVII Rebirth launched just 7 months after FFXVI.
There will have been an overlap of customers and buying two huge FF games and then completing them would’ve been too much for some people. The games should have been better spaced out.

Can we now stop blaming PS5 exclusivity on FF16's failure?

Those Steam numbers clearly show that the game didn't meet expectations because Fans aren't liking where Square is going with the franchise.

It's the game itself and how Square made it that it is at fault not the PS5.

@J-Dubs If they drop the numbering system the series is truly finished since the games with Roman numbers that sell the most.

Square also confirmed that FF16 is the game that was played by new players the most so the numbering system is not the problem.

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2024/04/final-fantasy-16-successfully-expanded-the-series-to-new-younger-players-says-square-enix

@Crono_Roughknight Yeah fair point, maybe its not hurting them at all or not as much as I had assumed. Do not think its the only problem either.

Does anything ever meet their expectations? They always seem so unrealistic.

I just feel that SE has unrealistic expectations.

@jrt87 exactly. Couldn't have put that any better. Such a shame. In all honesty these upscalers have served as really just a crutch in place of a thorough optomization standard.

@NomNom I think you're right but I feel like they can say it didn't meet their expectations for 16 because the Eikon fights are very expensive to make.

Well, it really seems to me that they’re going to be screwed overall because most games don’t sell well on Xbox either and that newest Final Fantasy that’s on steam isn’t selling well so even if they release their games all platforms day 1 they’re not gonna hit or exceed their expected sales numbers.

I think SE just expect the prestige like they had during PS1 and PS2 era but times have moved on and lots of games that are equal or better RPGs release now.

I still love FF but the franchise has had it's best years.

The reason on PC for sales being low, is they don't understand how Steam pricing works! FF7: Remake is stupidly priced for a game that's been out so long. If people can't play that, they won't be inclined to grab a PS5 to play the sequel. Lower the damn price on Steam and MAYBE some people's impatience will work in your benefit. But Square gotta Square and stick to those moon-logic prices.

@J-Dubs There are people who don't know that the games aren't connected (save from some direct sequels and prequels) but it doesn't make a difference.

And yes, Final Fantasy has other problems other than the numbers.

@CielloArc I don't think DD2 was nearly as long in development as any of these Final Fantasy games, and Capcom doesn't spend a lot of money on marketing unlike Square even tho they split the marking budget with Sony.

FF needs to go back to the roots that made it successful and cater to its most dedicated fans, much in the way that BG3 and ER stayed true to its fan base. Iterate on turn-based combat. Fantasian shows new interesting wrinkles can be added to the genre. Ditch the hyper-realistic j-pop boy band aesthetic, and lean into animation using Yoshitaka Amano’s drawing as inspiration for the art style. Finally bring us into the world that Amano envisions in the cover art and character drawings.

@J-Dubs Wow, you took my comment way too seriously. I was just giving another point of view.

Anyone who really blames the Playstation for the demise of Final Fantasy also believes Phil Spencer's lies.

The Steam numbers for FF XVI prove that the Final Fantasy brand has an image problem and a multiplatform release won't change that.

especially since SE has totally utopian expectations anyway. FFXVI could have sold 10 million copies and SE would still be disappointed.

SE is basically like Ubisoft. If you are responsible for your own problems, it is always someone else's fault.

@Banjo- lol

Square will never be happy with sales figures, but it does pay to consider that the Playstation is not necessarily the home of Square's fanbase anymore as the PS fanbase seems to have become more about the F2P GaaS titles than the single player stable it once was. Nintendo remains a strong market for the games they're selling but their recent games don't run on current Nintendo hardware. PC remains a big staple for FF, with XV and XIII remaining major staples in the PC realm, and XIV absolutely dominating in the PC space particularly. With the Wuokong phenomenon happening XVI may find a new audience with Wukong fans looking for similar gameplay.

One big problem any FF game may face is just competing with itself. The "core" FF fanbase is heavily invested in XIV, and for good reason, and any traditional FF game might find itself losing a competition versus itself, where, at $13/mo players are going to focus a lot of time into XIV if they're already playing it.

@Pompey71 "The reason on PC for sales being low, is they don't understand how Steam pricing works!"

Pricing isn't the main issue... If you know anything about PC, you can easily find the game vastly cheaper than the Steam price.

The main issue is that Square Enix PC ports are hot garbage filled with a lot of performance issue, and a very basic option menu.

Steam players also don't like the idea of being a second-class citizen to the Epic store. It took a year to release on Steam after the Epic Store release, and they still didn't feel like fixing the performance issues.

Just admit that PS5 exclusive games are not selling any good. This year, FF7rebirth, Stellar Blade, Rise of the Ronin and Astro Bot, none of them reach the sales that match their quality. Astro-bot and Rise of the Ronin might even not hit the 1mil milestone now.
Only Spider-Man2 has massive sales. But come on, that is Spider-Man.

The person who set expectations are needs to be sacked.
It's Hitman all over again

I still haven't bought FF7 rebirth. The first one was ok, but I'm not paying more than 30€ for the sequel. Maybe I'll buy a remastered version on ps6 if the console is still below a thousand euro and Sony stops treating its customers like crap. Maybe I'll buy it on PC when Square stops signing stupid exclusives with Sony. Or maybe I'll get it hacked or won't play it at all if I don't feel like paying.

@Nowings

or maybe just maybe you should keep your expectations in check. I haven't heard from Koei or Shift Up that they were disappointed with Rise of the Ronin or Stellar Blade.

The only ones who are disappointed are the saviors of freedom on the Internet. who definitely hate PlayStation anyway.

SE is just as stupid as all the PCMR and Switch idiots that these two platforms solve the problem of everything.

@KawakiisaFraud I don't know about Shift Up... But Koei did speak on the low games sales during it investor meeting. They had to revise its forecast for the financial year due "to recent game launches resulting in lower sales than initially expected"

But that could either be Wild Hearts or Rise of the Ronin

This is Square's MO. I don't think they've been happy with the performance of a single one of their games, ever. They'll release a game that rakes in a billion bucks and then say it was a disappointment because they were hoping for a billion and a half.

@KawakiisaFraud those games cost way less to make and aren’t even AAA. People saying the “expectations are too high” are not even looking at the market at all,they’re stuck in the past where a game selling 2-3 million is a lot when it’s not at this point.

This is why they are doing pc ports but people don’t want to see the truth.

@Shad361

You don't have to tell me that these games are expensive to make, I know that. It is still important to keep your own expectations in check. If SE just doesn't want to understand that a current Final Fantasy won't sell 20 million copies then it's SE's fault and not Sony's!

"This is why they are doing pc ports but people don’t want to see the truth."

that make little to no profit. see the current FFXVI Steam numbers... so much for everyone just waiting for the PC version.

@J-Dubs Nonsense. That is a non issue. If you were right the series would've seen progressively lower sales. Yet, XIV and XV are commercial sucesses. You gonna say it was the +1 that made the difference? I think not.
The problems are of a different nature. They are the size of the market (ps5 not being as big a market as ps4+xb1 were when xv released) and the type of game that went into a different vibe and more action focus.

No interest in rebirth after how they ruined the story in part 1! Stupid alt dimension time ghosts! Septhiroth shouldn't have even been in part 1!

@AverageGamer Please direct me to this place where the game is "vastly" cheaper to purchase than FF7R on Steam when it's on sale (£34.99) when the sale price is still too expensive for the age of this game.

Final Fantasy has lost a lot of its core base, due to them no longer wanting to appeal exclusively to said fanbase. Chasing that arpg crowd has cost them a little bit, with ff16 being a rather 'mid' game, with nice presentation. And then they messed up a classic, just for the fun of it, and ruined an otherwise perfect story, by slapping a bunch of nonsense ghosts in it. That's their own fault.

I've only ever played Crystal Chronicles, and seeing a game on it's 16th iteration makes me question if I'll have any idea what's going on, so it's a hard series to jump into. I'd happily buy a crystal chronicles remake though

@Nem Poppycock!

@Pompey71 I mean… I can’t probably name any here. But you can look around key selling site and find it cheap. Just like Steam can have sale, those sites can sales. But those site normal price for the Remake is usually already $34.99.

@Dalamar I totally agree I always wanted that 7 remake but it took so long it made me lose interest.

And Foamstars would have bombed if it was multiplatform, Forspoken was not that great.

It says a lot im more interested in the physical pixel remaster re-release then part 3 of Final Fantasy 7. It's not that strange that my favorite Final Fantasy games were on PS1.