Video game subscription services sounded like such a sure thing even just a few years ago that we can't help but feel for the firms that have invested so heavily in them. Sony has PS Plus, but it's meant to supplement the existing order, not supplant it. Speaking of heavily invested, tech economic analysis firm Macquarie Science and Technology Fund, which has a vested financial stake in correctly judging which way the proverbial winds are blowing, says: "The majority of the game market doesn't really want a game pass.”
Portfolio manager Gus Zinn revealed some interesting tidbits regarding the all-in business model famously adopted by Sony's chief rival in the console space, Microsoft's Xbox Game Studios. This division seems increasingly positioned to become the industry's biggest publisher, short of a massive, sustained influx of paying subscribers. A paywalled article called "Microsoft's Games Business Falls Short" from The Information (thanks, ResetEra) paints a stark picture.
Several leading game studios have already resisted Microsoft's pitch, preferring to take their chances on the traditional market with conventional releases in future. Our industry is small, so if a big AAA team says no initially, that position is increasingly unlikely to change as time passes and opinion shifts according to new data.
Further, before completing its gargantuan acquisition of Call of Duty publisher Activision, Microsoft was banking on over 100 million Game Pass subscribers to its service by 2030. That's presumably the number the endeavour needed to achieve to be worth the massive investment, not just in money and time but also in re-educating its core audience on what a game is worth.
The article alleges that Microsoft (best positioned to make subscriptions "a thing" in gaming) would need to triple its current subscriber base in the next five years, which, being generous, seems extremely unlikely. Put another way, it would need to grow its subscriber base annually at an astronomical rate of 40% for the next five years straight, without fail — a cracking pace that it hasn't approached since the early days of COVID-19 in 2020.
Do you wish things might have been different, that perhaps Sony might have taken a crack at a proper, all-in subscription service? Or are you glad it has proven resistant to such a drastic change, largely maintaining the status quo? Let us know in the comments section below.
[source resetera.com]
Comments 135
What we need is good and fun games
@anoyonmus No. What we need is a PlayStation 5 Pro Pro, and an Xbox Series XYZ. That will solve all of our problems.
The amount of subscriptions is getting so out of hand.
100M 😂😂😂 Unless Sony and Nintendo allow Gamepass (unlikely) that's never going to happen and even then 100M is still doubtful if they did.
Yes and no. I mean 30 plus million on GP isn’t something to overlook, but it won’t ever be Netflix numbers. Sony’s offering is largely not well priced for what it provides seems to be the general consensus. I mostly agree with that. I think the thing that the video game industry often forgets is change in this business takes time. There was a time when players laughed and mocked and HATED STEAM. How did that work out? Took time but i think we know how that story ended. Will GP and PSN + follow? Hard to say but there is always a newer generation of players coming in and what they adopt will be pivotal. I remember the days people said digital will never outsell or replace physical, again how is that working out years and a decade later? To early, whats not to early is people voicing their opinions on things they aren’t in control of. Therefor looking a fool many years later.
This just validates everyone one of us that always said GamePass made no business sense: great for consumers but completely unsustainable for even the short-mid term.
I, for one, am glad Game Pass is dying. It cheapens games and makes game studios expendable and totally dependent on the publisher (Microsoft)
I'm glad Sony didn't follow that path. With the budgets of games increasing it's too much of a gamble to put all their hopes in these subscriptions especially if they end up failing. Every player is different you know; Some people only buy that one big release every year, and some game all year round. It's nice these services exist for those that want them, but imo they should always be an option and not a complete replacement.
It's a great value and the industry does not want great value.
I want to add to my above comment. We are seeing a time which courts are saying getting a 30% cut for just hosting the store isn’t good. If and we should know more later this year and into 2026 that number reduces, lets say it goes from 70/30 to 80/20 or a death blow of 90/10. PS is in trouble. They will have to put their games elsewhere as the free cash of the store will be cut to a really low margin. Not saying this happens but if so, look for Sony and others to use all platforms and new methods to make money. This one has a huge impact on the mobile space and gaming space. I doubt it goes to 90/10 but i could see the courts ruling a 80/20 spilt.
I remember when there was a narrative early days that said that GamePass actually increased game sales. I knew that didn’t sound right but there were many people spouting some kind of data about GamePass subscribers actually buying more games than non-subscribers. There were quotes from developers about how happy they were to have their games on GP so more people could play them and it would increase exposure and market their game, etc. Of course those quotes came from some small indie or AA studio and that data about subscribers and game purchases was statistically confounded with spurious variables.
And so here we are, with a complete backpedal and now the industry doesn’t want subscriptions.
@arsmolinarc it cheapens games you say?
Sure looked like Indy was great and loads of PS5 players will be buying it on PS. Not to mention this site often writes articles saying such and such game is coming to PS from MS and players here get excited, also GP games. COD sold 80% on PS, it’s PS’s largest game of the year every year, pays most of their bills. It’s now on GP. Sorry bud, that argument sailed the moment MS said those games were coming to PS. GP filler argument is DEAD.
Give us an all emulator instead.
Subscription services like game pass are very pro consumer but not pro businesses, thats why gaming companies dont want it
Remember when Jim Ryan said this and everyone online called him an idiot.
Just like when he said the Series S was a bad idea in the long term and people called him an idiot.
Also, the Insomniac leaks showed how badly it hurt Sony when they tried ir with Horizon FW. The game lost nearly 80mil in estimated revenue. It was on track to do a bit better than Zero Dawn.
How’s subscription services for games any different than Blockbuster & Hollywood Video back in the day? at least you can get the games without ever leaving your couch.
on the flip side - i had to spend $50 just to play mario64 on the switch, because the super mario all star collection was limited time. so that sucks, but it’s still a win if you think about it.
Microsoft wants to turn gaming business similar into Netflix and i'm glad it doesn't work.
I think it’s nice to be able to try games. My brother had it a few times and we played ReCore and Battletoads, but at the end of the day, we want to buy games and play them whenever we want. Not have to be tied to a subscription service that needs to constantly be renewed. The last time he had it we couldn’t find anything worthwhile to play except those two aforementioned games.
as time goes on and life becomes even more financially difficult for many people, gamespass subscribers will decline. as we have already seen on multiple ocassions, subscription plans just keep increasing in price. its become far too expensive to be a set it and forget it sort of deal. gaming was always meant to be a fun pastime, not the outrageous expense and sacrifice of time that it has become more recently. the value of the subscription is only as good as the time you put into it and it appears that "time" is also in very low supply these days with so many other entertainment outlets fighting for it.
I'm so glad this garbage has imploded.
@Porco i think it’s good for games that are one & done , if someone doesn’t have much time then wouldn’t it make sense just to spend a set amount for a temporary library of games, instead of paying for them all individually??
I doesnt think it makes sense for day 1 releases but back catalogue stuff yes sub services make sense
EA have have actually got subscription services correct. sell games day 1 make most of the money then a year later they go on their sub service
I detest the idea of gaming subscriptions personally. I hate the feeling I'm being timed, and I like to take as long as I need. Not for me.
@breakneck yes I do. And he was bang on money with what he said.
Unfortunately he was way, way , wide of the mark with his unreal push for GaaS. I think that was his undoing.
@arsmolinarc it won't but something like gamepass dying would be terrible
I love gamepass and think it's one of the best things to happen in gaming in a long time. I'd definitely be playing alot less games ans less new games without it and I have paid £70 for a new game in quite awhile. I'm pretty sure a multi trillion$ company can keep it afloat if they want
I also like ubi+
I'm happy to a certain degree with my middle tier sub. Plenty of decent games to choose from plus the "freebies" each month make it a worthy purchase for me (note I said me not everybody.) I don't like having to pay for online play and I still think that there should be an option where you have a psn account for free so you can play online with your mates. Not everybody can afford to pay for even the basic ps+ and I think it's wrong those people only have the free to play games for any kind of online integration. Bring back the free accounts $ONY!
"Video Game Industry 'Doesn't Want a Game Pass', Says Market Analyst"
No.... i can perfectly understand this.
i personaly hate it, simply because i can't focus on one specific game. when there is so many games at hand, it is like jumping from serie to serie on netflix out of boredom.
i have now like 9 bought games i have all played trough, and fully enjoyed.
i hope they will stop making digital consoles and ps plus xbox gamepass, so people actualy enjoy games.
the thing is, games now get to fast critisized because of just 2 hour gameplay, before hopping to the next game.
Maybe there just aren't the numbers out there to do this but i don't think MS helped themselves here.
The first party stuff was key. If MS studios put out games that were a must play and could only be played on an Xbox or bought from an MS PC store then that gives game pass a reason to be and people a reason to switch consoles.
But since everything they own will drop into Steam and it seems many games will drop on PS eventually, why does anyone need to abandon their platform of choice?
MS have made a real mess of this and scuppered any chance of long term success in the console market with stupid short term thinking.
GP is neither dead nor dying. Even if MS can’t increase the subscriber numbers, it is now one of the world’s leading publishers, and people will get these games anyway, one way or another. While GP was once an innovation to make MS games more appealing, for the today’s MS, it is just an alternative distribution channel.
Spotify is also not what artists want. Do you still buy music on iTunes?
I don't think Game Pass is a healthy business model for the industry and I've been glad that it's fallen short of it's goals every year. PS Plus is a great service for my needs as is, supplementing the games I buy and adding new revenue streams for companies. Game Pass is destructive and I'll be glad to see it fail if it does happen
@MrPeanutbutterz it hasn't 'imploded' at all.
Gamepass is good value for money. love it or hate it, this is how the market is going. I never seen so much praise for Sony ripping people off, because they over invest on their games.playstaion games are accelerating their release on PC to make more money.if steam release a console it could kill Xbox and playstation as all of their games will be there. Now gamepass makes sense as Microsoft will just need to be on steam. They will try to stay independent, but this is the future I see.
I don’t think it’s needs 100m to be sustainable.
Bigger issue for GP/ps going forward, is more companies doing an EA/Ubi and having their own subscription because it will become harder to get 3rd party games.
I will quit the hobby before I ever pay for a subscription model. Full stop. Make a game worth buying. Then sell the game. It's literally that simple. A subscription model will make big budget games that take years to make like Zelda and Naughty Dog stuff completely untenable. No thanks. Not interested. Not ever.
@anoyonmus Astro Bot lighting up the sales figures and winning awards. And it isn't some subscription scam. It isn't some live service trash with loot boxes and skins and other microtransactions. It's just a good game that's fun. You'd think these suits with business degrees would learn.
I prefer outright ownership for consoles and their games. Physical ownership is the only thing I can accept for consoles. As I can always pass off my equipment and games to family. Or when one of us gets an itch to play something older we can. My 60gb PS3 still gets used for PS2 and PS3 games that we physically own. I’ll stop console gaming all together if they try to do a subscription. But it’s the goals for these corporations whom fully want the internet of everything.
@arsmolinarc is a subscription service really great for consumers?
If everything was available for a monthly subscription costing less or the same than the typically purchased titles per month, then yes. Otherwise not necessarily. The subscription service offers a limited number of titles, but not necessarily the titles You want.
If You play more than the average consumer, than it may still be cheaper to subscribe and purchase the few titles which are not on the service, but if You play less than the average consumer, presumably already the service is more expensive than purchasing individual titles. So, it looks like a good deal like the all You can eat buffet, but ultimately You get lower quality and You pay for more You can eat.
Yesterday I fired up my 3DS and played some Donkey Kong because I didn't want to purchase the same game twice. That's all I have to say about all digital, all subscription future.
Gamepass growth has hit a wall and that's with games like Call of Duty and Indiana Jones hitting day one. Gamepass is also available on Mobile Phones, PC and TVs so it's covering evey possible player base and has already stalled, not a good look at all.
GP is both the biggest blight on, and has been the biggest threat to the gaming industry and gaming as a whole - a view I have held since I first heard heard about it - all it does is promote low quality or half baked games, as filler content.
It has had 1 upside though - any 3rd party game launching on GP was an immediate red flag that the devs / publisher thought their game was no good!
I payed about £9 for a month of ultimate from Cd keys and was given another month for turning on recurring billing. I only done this to try out any Xbox exclusives. If I had liked any of them I would have still more than likely waited for a PlayStation release. The only exclusive I actually liked was Indy and I stopped playing after 6-7 hours so I can wait for the PlayStation release.
So for me I basically used my 2 months of gamepass to determine if I'm going to buy a game on PlayStation.
@SeanOhOgain so you want something that let's millions more people play alot more games to fail....
@Ultimapunch it won't
Game pass made me buy an Xbox after 20 years of playstation and I haven't looked back since, but of course the game developers want to have us pay 70 quid on their half finished messes.
Goodbye the Netflix of gaming, you shall not be missed.
@Rich33 "It has had 1 upside though - any 3rd party game launching on GP was an immediate red flag that the devs / publisher thought their game was no good!"
Absolutely agreed. I don't think there was a 3rd party game released to GP I would buy, once the reviews hit (sometimes hype gives me false hope).
We're at the point in entertainment subscriptions now that you have to subscribe inside a subscription. Please let it stop. I have Premier purely because I forgot to cancel my offer, but I like it so much I barely buy any games which is surely hurting developers if we all go this way.
There are just to many subscriptions.
That's just tv and movie platforms.
Let alone adding in a gaming subscription.
It's actually now become more expensive than a cable bill if you want to watch everything.
At least when it was just cable. It was 1 price every month and you just needed to remember what day and what time your film or programme was on.
Now it's Google searches to figure out which sub, the movie or series is going to be on and then, it's either thank the lord you already sub to it or it's a decision whether you spend that extra money and pay for another sub. But at least with say Netflix and prime, your always getting the latest new releases and original content.
GamePass which is trying to be the Netflix of game subscriptions, don't really get brand new releases and it's normally either new indie games or from their first party. Then you have got the problem of a game can take 10 hours to 100+ hours to complete with a 100s of games to choose from, which then also get taken off the service so you could end up not finishing said game.
Biggest problem with this is. Gaming isn't everyone favourite passed time, so most will only have time for 1 or 2 hours to game a night if that.
But everyone from kids to the elderly, from men to women will all sit down together and watch a series or a movie, gaming really isn't a social event, apart from the dedicated games, they are very much a singular interactive experience.
For the majority it's more cost effective to just buy a game 1 time, a few times a year than pay a monthly fee that you probably may never play all the way through 99% of the games and then the game you actually want may not even be on the sub and would have to buy it anyway.
It's probably why ps extra may end up being more successful because it's sort of tied into the sub we all have to pay to go online anyway, rather than a stand alone purchase, like GamePass
I don't have any gaming subscriptions at the moment as I find the majority of the games I want to play aren't even on them. If anything I'm getting rid of subscriptions and only have Netflix because it's basically free with my mobile contract and Virgin Media
@Cikajovazmaj
There was 1 exception for me, and that was Lies of P, but that had a fairly long demo - You could easily argue though that due to the somewhat niche market (ie very difficult Soulslike not made by FSoft), the publisher may have been worried enough about sales to accept a GP offer.
The subscribers would disagree lol
@neillaw
Yeah cause 30 or so million is totally the majority of the games industry right?
I stand by that Game Pass is the most overhyped garbage in the industry personally. You can tell me I'm a fanboy all you want but I've subscribed to the service three times since its inception and have only finished 2 games in that time with it.
@TeiGekiLord In the words of the CEO of Ubisoft (I think) "people need to get used to not owning their games".
Well its pretty obvious Microsofts original plan didn't work out, and neither did the following backup plans.
So now we're on Plan 9 from Outer Phil Spencer: Go full multiplatform and steadily increase the price of Gamepass over time.
I joined Xbox because of Gamepass. It's amazing for the first 9 months. Now I've played everything I fancy, it's like waiting for the old PS Plus games every month.
So I'm buying my own games again and the latest Gamepass offerings like Route 96 have already been on the service.
I honestly don't care how much it's costs Microsoft as long as we the people, get a good deal. Martin Lewis would be proud. But it's not all unicorns and rainbows. Thank god for Indiana Jones, without it the last few months would have been skeletal.
@TeiGekiLord you don't need total acceptance for something to be wanted, 30M is not a figure to scoff at
“We are getting too good of a deal! How will these huge corporations sustain themselves?”
“We are getting too much choice! How will we choose from 100s of games?”
“There are too many subscription services! Please shut them down since i cant have them all”
“PS plus makes so much more sense since we have to pay for the privilege of playing online!”
Incredible stuff. The amount of hate GP gets is laughable.
If digital purchases are not ownership then rental seems e better option
I think Sony have it right. For a £100 a year or so I get Premium, which includes a load of retro and PSVR2 games. I don’t care about getting games when new as I’m so far behind, and wouldn’t want Sony to lose a load of money to the point they stop investing in big tier projects.
Here's the fundamental difference between gaming and streaming videos.
A game can take 6 to 100 hours to finish so the time investment is more than the 2 hours of a b grade movie while you smash a pizza on a Friday night.
Watching tv and movies is often not just solo entertainment but can be a shared thing games can be to but far less than movies and TV.
If I'm investing 50 hours into a game I don't want to risk losing access half way though and that 50 hour game might only cost 20 bucks by the time it hits a streaming platform so I could have brought it and enjoyed it fully without feeling rushed like I do on gamepass.
I prefer to buy my games outright or play them as a monthly game in PS plus that has no time limit unlike premium
@Stickleman I don't think it's value for money, hurts competition, streaming games is a disaster for the environment due to the burden of data farms, and I think Game Pass' business model hurts developers and game creativity. So, yes I do
Game Pass is a cancer in gaming industry.
Just let that gaming rental service died and being forgotten.
We will not shape the future with Game Pass.
We will shape the future with physical games.
Microsoft.... Stand back.
Normal people buy the games they want and support the developers properly.
Suprise suprise, we all predicted that game pass would fail as it wasn't a viable source of income and players wouldn't adopt it and here we are. Xbox in the mud yet again
It seems a lot more of the paying public want ps+ and game pass than the gaming industry. Isn't it the people who pay the ones that keep business afloat? And yeah I agree game pass is failing, but arnt the people in the comments forgetting about ps+? can't say one game subscription is failing and choose to ignore the other one is failing to.
The hindsight of some people, honestly! The amount of people calling me out for predicting this very thing years ago… and now they simply ‘get’ it 🫠
Well hopefully this sort of service sticks around as an option, because I sure enjoy it. I like renting games. Digging through digital store sale pages has become miserable.
@neillaw but it is when they were claiming just a few years back that they need more than triple that to remain in the market.
personally i like PS+ extra
@Skynet04 I think the difference is in how the two services operate, and what the real hook is for the customer.
For Gamepass the hook is day 1 games with Ultimate, with a smaller selection of older games.
For PS+ its access to a larger selection of older games, with a very small amount of day 1 indie games as a bonus and a Retro /VR addon if you go premium.
For the PS model there is not as much room for failure because games only hit the service once sales have slowed. Take Forsaken as an example; It didn't sell particularly well, but it did get some initial sales from people who wanted to play it. However I bet a lot of people who had no interest in paying for the game downloaded it when it got added to PS+, so the Devs got money from both sides.
Im not saying GP is failing as it still has around 30m subs, but the level of risk for the two services is not really comparable imo.
@Nepp67 yeah I actually think subscription fatigue isn’t helping MS’s cause…
Gamepass never made economic sense: it would cannibalise sales of 1st party titles so Microsoft would lose money. Which it was prepared to do as a throw of the dice to make up ground after the PS4 generation. It has failed to deliver that objective and has devalued the worth of those 1st party AAA games in the eyes of consumers.
PS Plus makes more sense, as a service of committed gamers on PS with time and inclination to play 'smaller games', with some tentpole AAA titles available after their peak sales cycle has ended. It really all falls into place when you have (as I do, PSVR2 and Portal).
I prefer the portal screen for platform games and puzzle games. The kind of stuff that Netflix or Apple Arcade supports, but with the benefit of a proper controller.
If you accept that you're going to have to wait a year or more for a few AAA titles, and this service augments what you spend of full price, its an alternative to buying 2nd tier titles outright.
It works for me as a proposition. The time I've sunk into the service and the access to a wider set of games has been worth it.
And for all that the market wants a "traditional" experience, reality says differently.
The console market isn't growing. Quite the reverse. Both PS and XBox are moving away from the traditional model of subsidised hardware and exclusivity because costs are rising and the market is shrinking. Both PS and XBox are moving to a multi-platform strategy because...lets face it...both Sony and MS love money.
And both Sony and MS are moving to a cloud based console-less future based on PSN and GP because, quite frankly, it gives them a huge boost in profit and control.
Thats the reality over the next decade. Traditional consoles will still be around, just like BluRays are still around and we can still buy record players and cassettes. But Cloud and Subscription services will be the future.
@SeanOhOgain Did you not just contradict what you said?
Gamepass is aimed at a certain player who likes triple A shooting and fighting games. I personally think Microsoft has limited themselves with this model, both on gamepass and Xbox in general.
@Scrubchub It was Microsoft's great Hail Mary play to save the Xbox. And now they're a multiformat publisher.
It's toast.
@MrGawain Huh? Most of the games on GamePass are not shooting or fighting games.
In fact, there's basically no fighting games on there at all bar Killer Instinct.
@liathach Economic reality says differently.
Gamers don't buy hundreds of games a year but ultimately, what matters most is how much money a gamer pumps into the eco system. A gamer who subs to GamePass for 6 weeks has given MS the cash it would get from a game sale.
Subscription services are also very profitable. Profits rise faster than costs...it costs the same money to develop a game regardless of how many subs.
GamePass brings in $4 Bn a year in sub fees alone. $1Bn is spent on licensing and as MS acquires more publishers, that figure will drop. As it stands, even with the old numbers, GamePass is both profitable and sustainable and looks set to grow as Cloud becomes more accessible, and Content more tempting.
A subscription to GamePass already gives subscribers permanent access to some of the best games and biggest IPs in gaming history and there is an increasingly steady stream of high quality 1st party content. And that looks set to accelerate over the next few years.
Imagine the catalogue if MS acquires EA or T2I? One just needs to look to Steam to see the possibilities.
With consoles becoming less important for both Sony and MS, Cloud gaming and subscription services will become the de facto gateway for gaming over the next decade. The race for subscribers is on
I think when I was younger I would've loved game pass, I probably would've seen it as great value if it had been a thing in the ps1 or Dreamcast days. I used to enjoy trying as many different games as I could get my hands on back then.
But now I just tend to find one game, usually my favourite, a lengthy turn based game and play that for months. Maybe occasionally trying out a few on sale indie games.
I bought ps+ premium for a year, and despite the seeming value, I barely touched the vast array of games on it so I went back to essential.
The essential free games at least hang around 'forever' on your account so even if you end up not playing them, you feel like you are getting something, rather than the time limits of game pass and premium.
I think kids of today seem to be a different too, finding one game like Fortnite or whatever and just sticking with that indefinitely, rather than trying everything like we used to.
@MrPeanutbutterz well if it's, in your words, "toast" then it'll cease to exist in, what, 12 months? 18 maybe? Let's see then. It'll still be around. It's going nowhere.
Some of the relish in the replies here are baffling. I'm lucky enough to have all the platforms so the rabid fanboy nonsense you see in these comments doesn't really appeal to me but the way some of you are rubbing your hands with glee at the struggles of Microsoft this generation is pathetic. What on earth do you get from it?!
Just goes to show that the worst thing about this fantastic hobby is the people who partake in it. And why I so rarely use internet forums anymore. Just a waste of time talking to childish, biased fanboys.
Game Pass as a consumer is great if you often differentiate in what you play during a short period of time. If you only play 1 game for long period of time, it is not that great.
Game Pass also already plundered the older games it has access to and provided these to its users, AND a lot of people only want to play the recent games.
Game Pass is an absolute steal for the first months/year, but after a while, you've played what you wanted to play, and you'll cancel your subscription, only the resuscribe for a few months at the time for a new release, just like Disney+.
@W0rl0ck that’s an interesting use of gp. Im not sure I’d be able to justify the cost or space for an Xbox that was essentially a demo box for my ps5.
I sold my Xbox and switched to pc a year ago and am having a far better time. I get access to every subscription if I want, no multiplayer fees, cheaper games (I currently have kdc 2 pre-ordered for £35) and can prioritise frame rates for every title. I also have access to the best ai systems in the industry, courtesy of Nvidia, should I wish to use them. PC has a higher entry point, but depending on the type and number of games you play each year there are quite a few savings to be made over console.
I still have my ps5, but the last game I played on it was ff16. It mostly acts as a Blu-ray player under my tv.
I'm glad they failed. Just imagine a future where every game is locked behind a subscription.
strange how everyone says they hate subscription services yet there's 45 million ps+ members and 30 million gamepass members
@trev666 Bear in mind a lot of people will be subscribed to GP and PS+ predominantly to play online, not necessarily because they want the monthly games. Not sure how accurate they are but stats I found from 2023 suggest that over 70% of ps plus subscribers are on essential tier. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1386668/playstation-plus-subscribers-global-by-tier/
You have to wonder how many of those subscribers would cancel if Sony offered free online play and also how many are only subscribed to the premium tiers because “I need to get essential anyway and it’s only an extra £X a month”
I can’t find similar breakdowns for GPU but I would hazard a guess it’s a similar sort of story. They do have day 1 games on ultimate so it’s more likely people sub solely for the games but I still wonder how many wouldn’t sub atall if they didn’t need some level of GP for online.
@GeeEssEff No data but I seem to recall that for GP the subs swing the other way due to Day 1 games with the bulk of subs on console all being ultimate.
Sequel wrote:
Ditto — plus I've already got a pretty sizeable backlog; I don't need MS/Sony to ladle a new glut of games on my plate every few months, 95% of which I'll honestly never get around to playing, let alone finishing, anyway.
i do saves me a fortune plus i get to try games that i would have never bought and ended up loving them
@cburg no =]
I think one of the biggest problems with Gamepass is that it's not overly compatible with traditional game content, particularly in terms of game duration. As a gamer, I'm swamped with AAA releases that take 40hours+ to complete, and if the game I'm about to play isn't on Gamepass, I'll usually just cancel until the next big release.
Subscription services need something equivalent to netflix series.. shorter, episodic games that create a buzz and keep subscribers coming back every month. An rpg like Cyberpunk could get an hour or two of new content every week for example, and I would probably keep my subscription, rather than just hanging around to wait for the next big release. The same could apply to maps and story content in something like COD.. I'd make XBox game series with hour long episodes every week.. Surely that would mitigate massive AAA game budgets too as they could test the water with new concepts without going all in on one idea that turns out to be a flop... just a thought.
@Randinator123 But is it pro consumer? It really depends on your specific use case.
GP Ultimate is $20/month, lets say you subscribe for 5 years. That's what $1,200? (12 * 5 * 20).
Lets take that same cost and buy AAA full priced games, you would get 17 (1200 / 70) games with that money.
If you unsubscribe to GP, you lose everything. You no longer have access to any of the titles you paid to access; but had you bought the games, you would still have them.
For some use cases, it might make sense, and there is definitely something to be said about having access to more titles to try games that you wouldn't have bought otherwise; but I don't think its as pro-consumer (for the average consumer), as it would seem at face value.
@Neither_scene Ah I should have pointed out i don't own an Xbox but I used gamepass on my firestick and Samsung tv. I have owned every xbox except the current gen.
Love game pass.
Since there is no video stores left, to rent games, this has become an alternative. When a game releases, that I wanna play, I pay for a month, finish it, and move on. Since I rarely replay modern AAA games, I rather rent than buy.
Multiplayer being tied to console subscriptions is truly bogus.
GamePass can be a good deal if those are the games you want to play. If you want to play Playstation games or other 3rd party games that arent on the service its not going to be of much value to you. Plain and simple.
30 million+ gamepass subscribers and growing is nothing to balk at. What these type of analysts want is people buying $700 PS5 pro consoles and since it's not selling well they find something else to attack. Gamepass is extremely popular and it's only grown in recent years. I personally subscribe and I have friends who've gone out and purchased an Xbox Series S just to take advantage of gamepass. I personally own a Series X, Series S and PS5 but I started this generation with a PS5 then bought a Xbox Series S in 2022 to go with my PS5 and finally got my Series X in late 2024. I can honestly say thanks to gamepass I play more games I would've never bought.
@Steel76 I'm right there with you.my wife and I utilize gamepass to play games beat em then move on. We also take advantage of Xbox cloud gaming when we're away from home and it works surprisingly well with a dedicated type-C mobile controller. This helps cut down the lag that comes with Bluetooth controllers.
Xbox Gamepass Ultimate is an incredible gaming service especially if you have a significant other that plays games as well.
@thedevilsjester Microsoft do 'Not' make you buy Full Digital games and subscriptions at full RRP as Sony do, Sony lock you into their Digital store for Everything digital.
Microsoft allow you to buy both Full Digital games and subscriptions from 3rd party's saving a massive amount over RRP, unreal some people still dont know this after all these years since Sony locked people out from buying their codes from 3rd party.
I. E in the UK you can buy a UK Ultimate Gamepass for £22 for 3 months from CDkeys etc, so that's £88 a year or £440 pounds for 5 years and remember that's UK Pounds not US dollars.
@16BitHero Sony go one step worse by making you buy a subscription just for cloud saves on the PS5, they are free on Xbox.
@Rog-X It does make the math a little better in GP favor if you get it at a discount; for sure, though I avoided "sales" numbers because this can get really complicated, really fast, for example you can buy used games, games on sale, etc..., so this all kind of evens out.
@MrGawain That is a completely inaccurate statement. There are all kinds of games on GP from ever category.
@W0rl0ck ah, that makes a lot more sense. The xcloud stuff is nice to demo games, but it isn’t anywhere close to playing a game natively.
GeForce now offer a pretty impressive streaming ecosystem if you have the required bandwidth, but Microsoft's solution is leagues behind in terms of image quality and latency.
@nomither6 data has been released that only 20% of gamers who start a game ever complete them. i assure you that gamespass will only make games more disposable and the completion rates will fall even further. gamespass ultimate is already very expensive at $276CAD here in canada. you could purchase a ton of great games for that amount (especially if you plan to buy older or used games) and play them on your own watch over a number of years without the artificial time constraints found on all the subscriptions services.
Die subscription model, die!
@Porco what if the other 80% just moved on to other games because they didn’t enjoy the previous one? what if they’re just binging through games?
i don’t understand the disdain for subscription services
Wow. It's almost like getting the whole $70 is better than getting only a fourth of that revenue.
I think a lot of us here are the elder folks (30+) who are a bit more invested in buying games rather than the free to play and subscription market. My younger brother (Gen Z) and my kids (Gen Alpha) have zero interest in physical games or buying them when they can jump onto F2P or mobile games. They also use gamepass on mobile and tablets. That's the future of gaming regardless of if we like it or not. Subscriptions are here to stay no matter how many comments we post on a website.
GamePass has been absolutely amazing. I have played so many games through it I normally wouldn’t have tried. I will continue enjoying it until it dies.
@Th3solution Yep, but those people were always fighting against common sense, right? A misture of naivete, bias and downright deceitfulness. Everyone is happy while all bellies are full. The surprising part is that people that weren't really invested in Game Pass just went along. Or weren't they?
"If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything."
Maybe it’s just me, but when I download a game from Game Pass or PlayStation Plus, it feels less urgent for me to play it. It’s like the quality is lessened. Not always, because I played Jedi: Survivor on Game Pass recently and loved it, but I think that’s the first time for me.
I've never liked GP from the start, it was MS's latest attempt to change long established buying habits so the industry suited them.
It happened with paying for online.
Wanting to block used games.
Constant online check ins.
And with GP, cheapening the value of games.
When Disney+ has about 125m subs and they still can't justify day one releases for their movies, you know GP will struggle to make the numbers count.
Sure, I don’t need any subscription. I just buy games.
Industry falls short because some people grow up with money and make sacrifices. Not me though, I bought four 12 month subscriptions on sale last year 😄
An analyst can say anything but I mean. If the industry doesn't want it why do it? They want money constantly coming in, it's hard to maintain and just offer enough variety of games. Let alone quality, marketing and more. They could just spend less on marketing and do simpler marketing. There are user limits like any game, and service. It can only go up/down/balance out so many times.
Also the industry is small, well who's fault is that industry? XD They did this to themselves to want control and make narrower space. Those that were stupid and couldn't maintain things that's understandable, the others that killed studios/other publishers off that's on them to make it smaller and smaller. Indies are their own space big and small of team sizes so if the publishers want it to be even smaller or bigger not waste time making it to what they have already. XD It's not hard to see why. Why ask for so much yet it's so small it's hard to maintain hmmmmmmmmmmmmm....
They could well balance game design and release rates with smaller titles. They could just work around not doing a subscription and have CEOs/investors that aren't as greedy but that won't happen.
Not have that much overhead to maintain. Get out smaller games. Get out quality games (something Gamepass succeeds in with third party deals and the 1st parties are fine.... but not the best of enticing to join/play).
The rate of old games to emulate is understandable that takes time. The licensing of third parties is something else. The rate/timing of 1st parties on and taken off the service is another.
I don't care for sub services, digital or physical is fine, but I like to have access, physical or digital. If a written Will happens for people then yeah digital account side is toast unless backed up, maintained the account use (if there is a not in use thing like Google drive where they cut the user off for unactive use) and worked around of digital purchases.
Physical it better last those carts/disks.
I guess those 35+ million current MS GP subscribers don't count. 😂
I'm sure some want to go back to charging ridiculous prices for games, but many of us enjoy having GP. Besides the obvious benefits, being able to try some games I'd otherwise never buy has doubled my purchased content library. I doubt subscription services are going away anytime soon.
We want to own our games and play them when we want!
Nintendo, Sony and MS all have their own subscription service and Ubisoft, EA and Rockstar have joined in as well. All the services have various advantages and disadvantages. It very unlikely they are going away since they likely are at least somewhat profitable so there is little reason the companies are going to get rid of them. The problem with all subscription services is that the longer you remain subscribed the lower the value is unless the service keeps adding new content you want. What I've seen over the past year is that the ps+ extra has been gutted and they are only adding a handful of titles to replace the many that have left. Game pass has lost very few titles and has added more titles over the last year than they lost. But the ps+ essential is not bad, not really interesting in all the titles but there are some good ones in there. The switch online is just dumb, in my opinion. First there is the basic level with the NES and SNES titles and game boy titles. But if you want the N64 and Sega titles you have to pay for the full premium online which also includes 3DS titles.
@Neither_scene Yeah I 100% understand the difference. I still played and enjoyed Indy on my firestick. To me it just means I'm going to enjoy it on my playstation
@HonestHick I'll restrict my comment to annualised Aussie prices - but Essential costs AUD 95 (ish) and Extra costs AUD 170 (ish).... so if you assume you're going to get Essential anyway, then it costs about AUD75 - or about 60% of the cost of a single full price game (in Australia that's AUD125) to go from Essential (MP + Cloud Saves + 36-ish free games a year) to Extra (we can't get Premium in Australia .... sigh). So from a strictly cost basis, I don't agree that it's horrible value. For the individual, I think it's still great value. I just think (if possible) people should support the broader industry by purchasing if their finances support it. That's just my ideological old-timer biases.
My problem is that I think it is gradually eroding any value in games - because essentially customers start viewing games in the "free - or no extra money" category... GP is even worse because it's day one (sort of). They are still undoubtedly good value - I just don't think value to consumers actually promotes a healthy games industry (IMHO... but, I'm no expert).
For the record - I dropped down to Essential, and have been having a ball on playing games that I had in my backlog for years, or games I know will have meaning and value in the long term - for me. It was an absolutely freeing expereince, because I gave up that FOMO of trying to half-arse play 10x more games, just to feel I got value (that's me, and my time budget)
As digital slowly takes over I've no issue with subscriptions as there's no way I'll ever spend £70 on a digital copy
I agree with their assessment that “the majority of the market doesn’t really want a game pass” like service right now, but why does that matter? They don’t need a majority to make it a very healthy business. It can be a massive success if just 15% of the market wants it. It can co-exist with other business models, e.g. if you want to buy games individually. As usual CHOICE is good.
@HonestHick totally agree with all your points. Especially that things change, I too remember hardcore gamers crying foul about Steam and being forced into it with Half-Life 2…. now they are its biggest defender. Times change.
I guess that is why active game pass users and ps plus accounts have only 60 million users
@themightyant
Finally someone who can do maths and know that 40 million combined members of PlayStation PSN And Xbox game pass all paying a minimum of $10 a month is $400 million a month every month isnt really a loss. Since the users pay their internet connection their power bill . These gaming companies like xbox PlayStation and Geo force now. Well they wouldn't sell it if it wasn't making them money
@Scrubchub I'm not a biased fanboy. ALL gaming subs are garbage - GamePass, PS Plus, Nintendo Online. You jumping to me being a biased fanboy reflects your mindset, not mine.
And yes, it's toast. Otherwise why are they pivoting to releasing their games on their rivals' consoles? (Hint - because it stagnated before they got to a fraction of their desired subscriber numbers).
So its the video game industry that dosnt want subscription service. I can only think of 1 reason why the video game INDUSTRY dosent want Microsoft Sony and Nintendo having subscription services. I can only think of 1 reason the INDUSTRY dosent want subscription services. Money developers must be losing money. If its hurting developers then developers need to stop selling outand not release their games on a subscription service. The developers have created this mess not the customers. Isnt it hypocritical to not want subscription services and then release their latest games on the the subscription service for a quick payment. Its madness complete madness
Good I hope Gamepass fails. Day one games are value destructive but then Microsoft knows that and their plan was to destroy the video games industry as we know it and try and turn it into ***** subscription wars.
Hopefully they drop out of the hardware race soon as well because the market has spoken and they are no longer wanted or needed.
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare i mean all of what you said makes sense to me. Thats why i am saying the services are nice options to have alongside being able to buy games. Which i don’t see that changing anytime soon. But for some people the service is the better way to go. I just like options and we have them in today’s gaming world. As long as the player is having fun and getting decent value they are good with, then thats the best we can ask for! 😊
@HonestHick I don't disagree that choice is good - I do think however, the fact that subscription services exist is almost certainly changing the industry and the games... as people do tend to (unfortunately) wait for games to appear on their service of choice - especially for day one services like GP.
Based on the recent stories from Sony, it's clear how the subscription market is changing things... Microsoft's real money is coming from live service games on GP; and I'm sure that was the thinking with PS as well... it's just that they totally suck at making GaaS.
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare Yeah MS now makes 5 Billion in just COD skins, when i read that number I couldn’t even hardly believe it. Sony wants that kind of money but they simply suck at online games. Single player games simply just don’t make that kind of money. Now if it’s a great game it will still make some profit. But as we know Sony’s first party profit is razor thin at the moment. They are trying to change that, but God of War as a live service game? That tells me they simply lack creativity in house, cause thats the worst series they have to make it live service. I truly think Sony is gong to bring some of its games to Switch 2 and much sooner to PC. That’s free money and it’s not going to stop people from buying a PS. 85% of PS5 sales are causal players. They don’t care if God of War 2018 is on Switch, they don’t play those games to begin with. But they might want to chill on the live service games as they have studios starting over this late into PS5. They need those studios to have something in the next 4-6 years. I’d assume Bluepoint will get put back on a remaster to cut that time in half. Bend i have no clue, they can’t seem to catch a break.
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare as for subscription services, they seem to be the future of TV. Being are still cutting the cord left and right. Cable won’t last another 10 years in my opinion. Music is a lock. No one is giving up it’s Spotify and Apple Music. Games can be a different breed of consumers. But i do think in time, the console’s will start to be less and less important and handhelds with a subscription will be very popular, alongside mobile. That seems to be the younger kids bread and butter. The older you get the more money you tend to make and the less time you tend to have. Having a mobile or handheld device that can slot into gaming time you wouldn’t have in front of your TV is going to be a huge slice of the market in the coming years. Subscription makes a lot of sense for that. I think GP is here to stay, Sony i am not sure as they have huge debt and thin pockets.
@HonestHick Live Service money is like free-money (at least that's what it looks like) - but I still think, what Sony is worried about is if they legally have to open their platform to other storefronts - or if those live service publishers can sell their skins entirely in-game without having to give Sony anything. So it's as much about the risk of losing their existing revenue as chasing trends. As you said - Sony just literally suck at making Live Service games; to an astonishing degree.
100m gamepass subscriptions? They're delusional considering this already peaked and won't go higher than it already is.
The thing was only worth it when you could get it for 1$ a month, otherwise it's garbage.
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