
There’s been a raging debate about the meaning of first-party, second-party, and so on among gaming enthusiasts for eons.
For the longest time, it was assumed first-party games were those published by the platform holder and made by internally owned studios, while second-party titles were those titles still published by the platform holder but made by non-owned studios.
However, over the past decade or so, Sony has befuddled over-engaged fans by describing the likes of Death Stranding as first-party games.
So, what gives?
Well, in an interview with Sacred Symbols+ (paywalled), ex-PS Studios boss Shuhei Yoshida mostly put to bed the debate with a full breakdown.
“So, when games are made by a developer, [even an] independent developer, and published by PlayStation, we call them first-party games.”
He explained: “For example, before Housemarque was acquired they [were an] external developer and our external producers managed relations. But we funded the game and released the game as first-party, even though it was externally developed.”
Yoshida continued: “We call second-party when an independent company created the game and funded it or joint funded it, so the IP is still owned by that company. A recent example is Rise of the Ronin by Koei Tecmo. PlayStation published that game so we call it second-party.”
He concluded: “And then third-party exclusives we call partner titles, so some games like Final Fantasy 16 came out on PlayStation first and that was a third-party exclusive, so that’s the terminology.”
Yoshida added that during his tenure as PS Studios boss, he signed a lot of externally developed first-party games, although he acknowledged that second-party deals have been becoming more prolific of late.
“We always did lots of externally developed first-party when I was doing management, and PlayStation is still doing it, but the output from what we call second-party has definitely increased over the last few years,” he noted.
“I remember the first example was Nioh and Nioh 2. Those games were created and published by Koei Tecmo in Japan and Asia, but outside Asia in the US and Europe, they were published by PlayStation and that was a second-party deal in our terminology. That went very well.”
So, while it is still quite complicated, that should give a little more insight into how Sony sees the terminology. We’d summarise it like this:
- First-party
- A game published and fully funded by Sony. Usually owns the IP.
- Second-party
- A game published by Sony with partial or full funding coming from an external company. Usually doesn't own the IP.
- Partner title
- A game published and developed by an external company launching first or earlier on PlayStation platforms.
- Third-party
- A game published and fully funded by an external company.
It all gets a bit complicated, and you can see how there may be some exceptions to the rules where different contracts are in place. (For example, Death Stranding 2: On the Beach is a game published and fully funded by PlayStation, but it doesn’t own the IP, so it sits somewhere between first-party and second-party really.)
Nevertheless, it’s quite interesting hearing Yoshida lay all this out, and it gives us a better framework to work with moving forwards.
[source patreon.com]
Comments 67
Just wait for fanboys to call him wrong on this.
I look forward to future comments sections becoming flame wars over the correct use of these terms now. XD
Good article! My question is, what does Wukong fall under? Because one minute, we were told it was 3rd party, next Sony helped with dev work / funding, so therefore it's a partner title right?
"For example, Death Stranding 2: On the Beach is a game published and fully funded by PlayStation, but it doesn’t own the IP, so it sits somewhere between first-party and second-party really."
So it's a first-and-a-half party game...obviously!!!
And 4th party is when Xbox make a fully funded first party exclusive and then have to cave in and release it on PlayStation like a third party publisher after x amount of time has passed. Gotcha.
Isn't Death Stranding 2 clearly a second party game, by their definition?
@pumpkin_head Sony still fully funds and produces the game. It is Kojima's IP.
Colin's interview with Shu was definitely more informative than the KF interview. There's a lot of interesting details they get into and recommend to anyone once/if it's released on free feeds.
@breakneck
Ah sorry I misread, and haven't got to that part of the interview yet!
@charbtronic
Yeah Shu even says that he is expecting better and more original questions right at the start of the interview.
@Oram77 I've never read or heard anything about Sony being involved with Wukong's funding. Where does that come from?
@Ainu20 Think it was around the time people were saying Sony were money hatting the exclusivity, and that time I thought Game Science came out and said Sony "helped" them with development.
Edit: I think it was help getting Wukong to run on console.
It’s good to get that clarification. Now can he define A vs. AA vs. AAA?
And also, what constitutes a “Souls-like”? 😜
@bazchillin I’m sure it’s already happening haha!
And here I remember being constantly told there was NO SUCH THING AS SECOND PARTY... though to be honest, for gamers it doesn't make a lot of difference.
@Oram77 Black Myth would be third-party. Sony helped the team but didn’t really invest in it.
@get2sammyb Thank you for clarifying
Second and third party is carrying sony this generation.first party takes too long.word up son
@pumpkin_head Death Stranding is an interesting example actually. If I'm understanding it correctly, I think during the bulk of development, it would be considered 1st party, but since the IP ownership has transferred completely to Kojima, I think the second game would technically be 2nd party and the 1st game is kind of retroactively 2nd party.
I'm sure this is all very meaningful to someone, but I'm struggling to care ... The only question that matters is: is a game good or not? What difference does it make to your enjoyment if Sony calls it first, second or third party?
@pumpkin_head Actually, they say “usually owns the IP”, regarding first party. So technically it could still be considered first party, since its fully funded and published by Playstation.
I think they consider Stellar Blade first party, even if they don’t own the IP (i think?)
I must say, its still all a bit vague to me 😅
"I'm still going to use my own definitions to make Sony look worse."
What does any of this matter to the end consumer? No one but business suits and fanboys cares about this.
bazchillin wrote:
While I agree with you to an extent, and was making a similar point the other day, the fact is this is only Sony's definition of the term. It's entirely possible Microsoft, Nintendo, Steam all have their own definitions as it isn't set in stone.
But it's also good to have some sort of definition, because too many terms in gaming have no fixed meaning. Can they also clear up what constitutes AAA, AA & Indie nowadays.
@themightyant You forgot AAAA or does that only apply to EA
@Ilyn III (Triple-i) is the newest one I heard for massive Indies like Baldurs Gate 3. I quite like that tbh.
And I think AAAA is useful for games like COD, GTA6, Genshin Impact, Fortnite etc. that have massively OTT budgets.
@Oram77 it’s not uncommon for a platform holder to help out a developer getting their game running on their console from time to time. It’s part of developer relations. Especially if it’s a developer with no console experience.
I’m sure Microsoft have helped people with Series S optimisations at some point
@LogicStrikesAgain Yep. There's a LOT of wiggle room here that could make none of it stick... so we're almost back at square one, particularly as we rarely know who is funding the game. Still better than nothing.
@Ilyn And Ubisoft.
And games like Concord are called "whoops party."
Personally I'm finding second and thirty party titles far more interesting. Less preaching and box ticking for one!
Yoshida! Don't make things more complicated then they need to be... Should've kept it a secret from the internet.
I really feel like gamers are becoming too invested in the business side of this industry. It's sort of unprecedented! Like, do film fans get this invest in how much is paid to make a movie? Do they quibble over "resources" when a studio makes a big budget remake when they could've worked on a new franchise?
It's to a point now where consoles have great games in every genre, but fans still gripe that there are no good games 5 years in. It's almost like it's become more fun to complain about games than actually play them. Come to think of it, this is what it feels like to be a Star Wars fan.
sony still knows what first party is?
Good article - I know its only Sony's definition, but some clarity on this is way overdue imo
@Ravix Cave in or make tons more money? Everyone benefits from MS not locking their games to one console, especially MS financially.
@AhmadSumadi Very true I think post pandemic were judging games on units sold and cost to sales ratios like we are an investor haha. I still try to enjoy games without worrying how many units it sold or it's budget.
Well thank you for putting an end to that raging debate.
So pretty much what we all guessed then.
What a great way for Sony to increase first party output! 😂
@AhmadSumadi No it doesn't happen in other industries but gamers love to get precious over their particular plastic box.
@AhmadSumadi It’s not unprecedented. Ever talked to a sports fan? 😂 The thing is, people tend to become interested in all aspects of their hobby of choice because they are investing their time, energy, money and emotional bandwidth into it. Like it or not, hobbies are a part of our identity. Some people just struggle more than others with boundaries.
Who owns Stellar Blade IP? I just want to know if there’s any chance of an Xbox port sometime in the distant future.
I'm sure people will now start to come up with terms like "true first party" to describe games from Sony owned studios, just to continue being able to complain we get no games from Sony xD
More Stellar Blade and Nioh. Less of the other stuff.
@SMJ “What a great way for Sony to increase first party output!”
Every platform holder does the same
@LogicStrikesAgain I don't remember anyone else ever trying to spin things in this way.
Anyway, it was a tongue in cheek comment.
I just find it funny. Almost as funny as when Sony found an extra 5 million PS2 console sales down the back of the sofa just as the Switch was about to break its record.
@SMJ Exactly, they've massaged the terminology to obfuscate the declining volume of the in-house output.
@Cakefish definitely not sony thankfully , look at characters in every sony first party game post Uncharted 4 then look at stellar blade.
I can't imagine what would happen to a game like nikke if any of these grubby companies got their hands on it
who cares what party, as long as its a good game on Playstation.
@get2sammyb I love a lot of things you write but sometimes there's real contempt in your comments.
@SMJ That sure sounds like the pot calling the kettle black
@LogicStrikesAgain I don't know which one of my comments this refers to but I'd love to know.
@pumpkin_head Rise of the Ronin and Nioh are second party games where Playstation handles international distribution and partially funds the game with Tecmo Koei.
@themightyant I feel you aren't indie anymore when 30% of your company is owned by Tencent. You're AAA.
@SMJ You know Analysts long suspected the PS2 crossed 155 million that was officially reported. Sony wanted to prop up the PS3 which had launched poorly so did an XBOX and stopped announcing numbers for the PS2.
I already knew first-party games were the games Sony didn't make...
@MFTWrecks because knowing stuff is helpful.
@StrickenBiged I was thinking the same thing. Even though the only correct way is the way explained by the people in charge, who made the decisions. Same as the X being cross. We can still call it Ex. And no-one (not even Sony) will argue. But it's still wrong
strange sony didnt define them that way during the ps4 era they only changed it during ps5 because of less actual games made by their own studios
So, to summarise, there’s four types of game available on PlayStation 5:
First-Party
Second-Party
Partner title (more commonly known as anti-consumer title)
Third-Party
Got it 😉
@LikelySatan And how does knowing how a multibillion dollar corporation defines its investment strategy helpful (or useful) to you or any other consumer in any manner whatsoever?
@MFTWrecks I don't look at this and see investment strategies. I'm not a huge weirdo.
Normally, when I hear a release is first party, I know that game is only going to be on the one platform. That's useful. Knowing what devs are working on and who they can and can't work for. Cause I'm a mad l33t gaymur.
@Th3solution (#13) and, especially, effing AAAA! 😂
@Oz_Who_Dat_Dare
"And here I remember being constantly told there was NO SUCH THING AS SECOND PARTY..."
That's an interesting thing. I remember in a post or two, that people were saying there's no such thing as a "Second Party Studio", as opposed to second party game. Which would be different, because you'd be talking about the actual studio and not the game they made. I often think these get mixed up, but not to say people don't discuss what the definition of a Second Party Game is and if it exists. It's just something that stuck with me.
Not what is really being discussed here, but I think it's interesting and if someone else finds it interesting:
Second Party Game: A game funded by Sony to whatever point, but not owned. (Thanks Shu)
Second Party Studio: An external studio that creates games for Sony and the IP is owned by Sony. This is what my definition of a Second Party Studio is.
A Second Party Studio creates First Party Games for Sony (just like a First Party Studio).
Now I've opened a box of worms and potentially started a serious discussion. 🫣 I'll run for the hills................
Sounds like the definition many of us do say and the clarification is nice to have , first party is with the console maker or the core publisher/launcher (depends on the perspective of it, if in modding then yeah first party launcher then 3rd party launchers in the case of Minecraft as first party for the base studio behind it but 3rd party prior to Microsoft buyout as an Indie before then) or whatever the case so if they were the core of that platform.
Second party are funded games the first party is offering support for.
Third parties are external to the first party and have a broader focus on anywhere they want to put their software. Sounds right.
2nd person is an odd one compared to 1st/3rd person but I mean I guess Driver San Fransisco's swapping or player in a coma can be a 2nd person situation? I guess? 2nd person isn't easy to define as parties are of 1st to 3rd. Then again 2nd person isn't really used.
Indies are just that independent, their budget or their closeness to a publisher are what they are.
They can be small teams and third party or big teams and exclusive to a console or partnership because it's a Sony owned characters/IP (or the other companies in those cases like ID@Xbox or something) or rather then a 1 off or a funded deal like Heavenly Sword or others that I guess were second party? Were they funded? I assume still second party for that or third party as not as much support for long just 1 project and they move on?
Ratchet and Clank/Insomniac before their buy out I class as first or second party back then because it's a Sony IP they own and had to have the same supported features as other Sony games they had to follow the same requirements as all their other studios. So the same treatment to a degree.
Especially for the PS3 Ratchet games I mean. PS2 ones I guess as well as multiplayer for the 3rd games was requested. They had to work with that new internet package/PS2 modem and hard drive.
PS3 Sixaxis motion controls tick, PSN support tick as in the online or the PS store for games like Quest for Booty before it's Nexus disk benefits version (Deadlocked HD after delay of Full Frontal Assault/QForce on Vita is it's own factor).
A co-op game tick of All For One and Full Frontal/QForce games, 3D TV support tick with the trilogy so HD versions.
Resistance 2 had PSP support with Retribution on PSP just like Killzone Liberation had Chapter 5 DLC or GT5 had 3D TV support, PSP support, multi-montior and more.
They may have been Independent but had the same demands as the other Sony Studios back then for the games they worked on.
Sure they owned Sunset Overdrive, Song of the Deep and Fuse besides working with Microsoft, Gamestop or EA, but the others were more Sony controlled demands or IPs of Ratchet/Resistance. It's why a new Resistance wasn't accepted. Not just the oh we ran out of ideas nonsense we used to hear about it.
It's an excellent interview. Colin killed it.
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