SAG-AFTRA Still 'Frustratingly Far Apart' from Big Game Studios, Publishers on AI Protections

"Disney Character Voices" is a really ironic name for a company that wants to get rid of real voices.

Can't wait for the usual sad people who don't even understand how AI works to try and paint the artists protecting their work and livelihood as the villains because "progress is inevitable hurr durr".
All my solidarity goes to the actors involved.

@Ultimapunch not so ironic if you look at how scummy Disney has pretty much always been.

@Ultimapunch I mean look at Luke Skywalker in the Mandalorian Series. That's the future for them

I guess it'll be a few more years of terrible british accents in games. Better get used to Ben Starr and Shadowheart in everything.

Let me tell you what the takeaway of the SAG strikes were as far as the corporations are concerned: human beings are no longer needed. In fact they are an active liability to profit. The only thing that the strikes achieved was to speed up the demise of Hollywood.

And guess what? It is happening everywhere. Only legislation will stop it but that clearly is not coming soon.

@breakneck

I guess it'll be a few more years of terrible british accents in games. Better get used to Ben Starr and Shadowheart in everything.

Wow, we've successfully located the only individual in the world who thinks fantasy games are elevated by having American dudes in them

FULL solidarity with the comrades of SAG-AFTRA! ✊

I want to be on the side of VA's, but the union is demanding they get a bigger share of the profits than the artists and coders.

They better check their ego's quick otherwise their jobs will be gone forever.

@clvr You do need to take into account that SAG-AFTRA are not exactly the good guys in this discussion too, and are just as selfish and self-centered as the companies they are negotiating with.

Ultimately they care because they make lots of money from their clients and purposefully create structural barriers in the industry to impede new entrants and amateurs in the voice acting market.

If you sign-up to the SAG-AFTRA agreement then you can only hire voice actors from the union(unless you get actors from outside its territory). I believe how it works is you can get a small number of exemptions, 2, and if you work on a third union project then you are forced to join, and the fees are not cheap. This protects their members from broader competition by creating barriers to entry for new talent. I mean, it’s pretty much the same way the Mafia worked in New York construction for example(without the violence or implied threat of violence, but the terms are basically the same), you work with us and we get a cut or you don’t work.

@PerpetualBoredom

So you think VA's should be paid more than artists and coders?

Because that's what SAG-AFTRA are demanding.

@dodgykebaab It would be helpful if you could back up those claims with a source.

@Ainu20 I don’t know the exact rates but a significant pay raise is part of the negotiation. It isn’t actually just an agreement about AI rights but that is how SAG-AFTRA are obviously going to frame it, for public sympathy.

@dodgykebaab (#11) I don't get into arguments about who should be paid how much as a principle. I will tell you that everyone get bent over by the capitalist environment, and artists and coders are highly encouraged to form their own unions or join existing ones to organise themselves against the biggest entertainment industry in existence.

There is plenty to be had from the corporations. Unionise, folks!

@Ainu20 Sure.
Search "SAG-AFTRA want profit sharing on games"

@PerpetualBoredom SAG-AFTRA are corrupt though.

Like @ChrisDeku said, they hurt more VA's then they help, and exclude VA's from the work force.

@dodgykebaab I'm not trying to be contrary here, but that is not a source. That is essentially telling me to dig up the source for myself. You made a very specific claim about them demanding to be paid more than programmers and artists, and I think that deserves a proper source.

I'm sure compensation is part of their demands, but it's not easy to find exact details on it.

@Ainu20

You could probably benefit from at least trying to do as he instructs you to.

What will you lose from trying? At best, you could provide the discussion with useful 'sources'. At worst, you waste 10 seconds. Not everything can be handed to you on a golden platter. You have to realise that powerful and exclusive unions are not always 'of the people'. I am not saying they aren't trying their best for everyone, but think of how few voices there actually are in the business. We keep listening to that guy from Indiana Jones.

AI should be banned in any art, games included. And it's usage should be considered as plagiarism.

@EfYI That's what I did, but didn't find anything useful. Someone made a claim and I asked for a source, that's not exactly the sort of thing that warrants the response "Not everything can be handed to you on a golden platter".

Don't assume I'm doing this to defend SAG-AFTRA, I'm on the fence about what I think about them.

U know what would help laws

I feel bad for the people who fell for the "union is good for us" scam. They joined SAG-AFTRA and now they aren't getting as many jobs as they used to anymore.

Ai is a job killer in every industry.

In the end, the most important thing for games is gameplay, I rather have gaming company pay their programmers more compared to voice actors.

Also I heard one of the reason some company like mihoyo didn't agree to union demand is because the union demanded that mihoyo didn't hire non-union voice actors and only union voice actors can works on their games 😕

If some of SAG AFTRA demands are game residuals, minimum 6 figures salary, as well never hired non-union VA then they can kiss goodbye to those demands.

SAG AFTRA needs to understand that they're not the one who's in control here since they're not the one who's working their ass day and night to developed a game or even own an IP. They can't dictate games company to agreed with their demands.

I’m really not sure why these two sides can’t find common ground. It’s the players that should be campaigning. From the actors’ point of view, they can now be, theoretically, paid for work they don’t do (much more “work” therefore), just because a likeness of their voice is used, and the devs can likely pay less as no humans are involved. Why can’t they work out a simple business proposal?

The players who may have to make do with inferior characterisations. Sure, they should be complaining.

@Ainu20 Fair play.

SAG already demanded Streaming Revenue Sharing from places liek Netflix:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/streaming-revenue-sharing-actors-sagaftra-1235559427/

On the SAG-AFTRA they want a sliding scale on "Indie" games, so depending on games sales, they demand more money "Captures runaway project success with secondary payments,":

https://www.sagaftra.org/sag-aftra-unveils-new-video-game-agreement-indie-devs

But this big one which would boost VA's pay over artists and coders is the demand for residual pay, which is profit sharing.

https://www.vulture.com/article/sag-aftra-video-game-strike-authorization-explained.html

"In 2016, SAG-AFTRA went on strike against 11 major video-game studios after failing to reach an agreement over stagnating base pay, health and safety issues related to vocally strenuous performance roles, strict nondisclosure work contracts, and the lack of residual pay within the industry. "

"By the end of the 2016 video-game actors’ strike, many union members expressed discontent with the current agreement, saying the current contract still hosted lackluster health regulations and did not hold the competitive residual pay SAG-AFTRA initially fought for."

Some studios offer a bonus to staff for good opening sales, but not residual payments. VA's on residual on games like GTA would put them well above artist and coder pay levels.

Even games like Monster Hunter and Call Of Duty would do this.

@dodgykebaab Cheers for those links. I guess I'm not opposed to some form of residual payout on principle, as long as it's reasonable and fair. There's a lot of uncertainty involved in voice acting gigs compared to being a regular employee at a video game company, which makes it hard to to a direct comparison.

The thing I'm not sold on is blocking companies from working with non-unionized VAs. Does that mean non-SAG-AFTRA members, how does that work with VAs from other countries where other protections are in place, etc.

I didn't know they were on strike until an article the other day. I did very much know the other 2 groups were previously on strike, it's all anyone talked about while those strikes were ongoing.

After 8 months I think these people are less on strike and more on vacation for all the good it seems to be doing them. 8 months and I'm only hearing about it now. 🤷‍♂️

Going to ask my college age kids, they follow the Critical Role people a bit. I just watch the Amazon show.

@ChrisDeku Its a crime that they can steal your likeness as a actor this Should be regulated that they always need to pay for royalties to use there likeness. The only thing im 1000% certain off is that big Corp is the big bad evil. EA and Activision do i need to say more.

@thefourfoldroot1 I will gladly pay more then steal the food our if voice actors there mouth to make the 1% even Richer.

Second thing you believe we are going to see a penny of the money they will Save how ignorant can you be.

Hope the actors prevail in all this. Nobody should have their job replaced by essentially a robot.

@Flaming_Kaiser
Not sure what you just wrote. Or how it can possibly be relevant to what I said. It is quite clear that both voice actors and devs can benefit from AI if they are able to come to a reasonable, mutually beneficial resolution. It’s the quality of the output that’s the real concern.

I don't see why Voice Actors should be 'protected' from advancements in technology. I don't see why they can't use AI - especially if the Conversation capability of NPC's become more ad hoc, unscripted so a voice actor isn't reading from a script.

I'm not saying that AI should replace human voices in all situations, but I do believe that AI can and should be used if the Devs/Publisher choose to use it. I don''t see it as any different from other 'industries' from Agriculture and textiles during the industrial revolution to Computers, CNC, Robots etc involved in Manufacturing and/or distribution.

Paid Actors will increase the costs significantly - therefore either take budget away from other aspects or risk becoming 'unprofitable' or over-priced. Same as replacing hundreds of Farm Labourers instead of 'technology' - that led to cheaper Farm produce, same as cheaper clothing/fabrics from the Textile industry...

I doubt games will be 'cheaper' to the Consumer, but they maybe will take more risks, keep more 'jobs' (look at the last year or two) and/or sustain the industry better...