Topic: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (PS4)

Shura ending done… and that Emma & Isshin 3 phase boss fight to finish it was a doozy! So… chill for tonight… reload a save tomorrow, deal some death to Shinobi Owl and Corrupted Monk… navigate Fountainhead and I’ll be done. 😅

@KAIRU with how much you love the game dude, you definitely wouldn’t be wasting your time. I mentioned it in the Trophy thread but in case you didn’t see my post… it’s in my all-time top 10 games now for sure. Great game!

Been waiting a long time for a good price on ps store, its been 4 years, and still 40 bucks on sale.

Pretty tempted now though, while waiting for an elden ring good price drop.

Having been completely convinced that I was probably just too old and slow to progress past Genchiro Ashina, I might actually be able to do it. I went back to it over the past week and can now pretty consistently get to the Tomoe phase, having previously not been able to get close to the first deathblow in phase 1. Still not convinced I can climb over the wall, but I've managed to find some finger holds and get off the ground at least...

I did it! Just took a few more tries after work today! With hindsight (!) one of the most enjoyable bosses in any of the FS games Onwards!

@woollypump massive props dude, well done! Well… I’d be lying if I said it was all downhill from there but if you can overcome Genichiro you’ll overcome what’s to come.

@colonelkilgore Thanks! I'm going to play blind and take my time with this one - it's the last Miyazaki game that I haven't completed so I want to savour it.

It was last July/August when I last attempted Sekiro and played up to Genichiro, so I used a dragon blood droplet to clean the extensive dragonrot I had accumulated on the many, many, many attempts it took me to beat Genichiro, and spent last night exploring area's I'd already been through. I'd totally missed Mount Kongo so spent most of the evening exploring there - up to the Armoured Warrior.

I'm still working my way through and really enjoying it, taking my time and playing blind. I'm at Fountainhead palace. I'm glad I persevered - I would really struggle to pick my favourite FS game and Sekiro would be in the running.

@woollypump yeah it’s a great game no doubt. I actually didn’t appreciate quite how good until I returned to it last year for a second playthrough. It’s firmly in my top 10 games of all time now for sure.

I got sooooo close to beating the Demon of Hatred twice today, but both times I had no flasks or pellets left so no leeway for messing up (which I did ).

Now I need to do a bit of grinding for spirit emblems before I try again...

Lost count of how many attempts so far, but very fun fight

I can do it!

Beat him last night - spent 20 mins or so grinding for emblems with the spirit balloons - amassed > 200 emblems and then beat him on the next attempt

So - just the final boss to go. Made a couple of attempts last night - beat Genichiro fairly easily but I reckon it will take me quite a few attempts

I missed the second Hirata Estate visit so if I do go for the platinum I would have to do that on NG+ ...

@BlAcK_Sw0rDsMaN How’s your Sekiro playthrough going? This thread might have some tips for you.

I was just perusing some media and came across one rank list of difficulty for From games and they had it ranked from easiest to hardest:
Demon’s Souls, Dark Souls 1, Elden Ring, Dark Souls 3, Dark Souls 2, Sekiro, Bloodborne.

I was surprised to see that the person placed Bloodborne as more difficult than Sekiro, since most of the online opinion out there is that Sekiro is accepted as the hardest. Thoughts?

I think the idea was that taken as a whole, Sekiro has a more straightforward layout and the common enemies aren’t too bad, and the bosses, although difficult, have a rhythm to them to learn and overcome. Bloodborne has the combination of complex map, difficult common enemy encounters, especially early on, and lacks any good defensive mechanics to rely on. They felt the lack of a consistent parry or shield option actually made it more difficult.

Either way, it’s comforting to know that I’ve beat two of the three hardest games, at least in this person’s opinion. I know that difficulty in these games is extremely subjective and depends on one’s skill and used build.

@Th3solution I would place my personal order as follows probably, bearing in mind that I generally farm to become op or summon in the Souls games for the endgame bosses:

Easiest to Hardest(As a caveat, I am still yet to complete Sekiro)
1)Demon's Souls
2)Dark Souls 3
3)Bloodborne
4)Elden Ring
5)Dark Souls 1
6)Sekiro

You can get op in Bloodborne by farming, Elden Ring's last two bosses are diabolical but you can get by with summoning, Sekiro's early bosses, discounting the cheese for one of them have been very reaction-based, and you can't farm to get op, the amount of vitality and attack power increases are fairly limited ,depending on how much exploration and defeating of bosses/minibosses you do - and then, you still have to beat those enemies to "level up" it's not like a traditional Souls game where you can farm mobs or more powerful regular enemies to become op, and also the amount of vitality and attack power you get is more restricted when you "level up" compared to the practically limitless overleveling you can do in the Souls games. Hope that's valuable and informative? 😉

Edit: Oh yeah and the level design of Sen's Fortress, Anor Londo & Tomb of the Giants is what makes DkS1 so hard for me, couldn't bear to go thru that s*it again!

@BlAcK_Sw0rDsMaN Interesting. So how is Sekiro’s map design? Is it linear and straightforward, or is it more web-like and interconnected like DS1? Is there a fast travel system with good checkpoints before bosses?

@Th3solution Definitely "linear and straightforward", as you put it, from what I've played so far. But I've read that later on, if you go a certain way, you will be locked out of optional bosses later on. Also, from what I've read and experienced thus far there is hardly any runback at all to bosses.

@BlAcK_Sw0rDsMaN As I was saying on Chit-chat, I do think From games are reliant on the main skill of moveset recognition and memorizing them through practice and repetition, but part of the second layer of that is to learn how to respond to the particular moves on display.

There’s some enemies and bosses that may have a large sweeping attack which I’ve been able to know and recognize but still not be able avoid it unless I use a specific tactic. Most common attacks can be defended in whatever way a player chooses — so by either using a shield, dodge rolling from it, timing a parry, or simply positioning oneself where the environment offers protection. However, the tough enemies and bosses require that you must execute a specific move to avoid taking large damage (or inflicting damage, as the case may be).

As an example, one of my early Souls / FromSoft lessons learned was that often you’ll need to roll into an attack to avoid it and be able to counter. The instinct is to roll away from danger. In From games, sometimes rolling away works, but often bosses and harder enemies will punish you for doing that because they have a very far reaching and wide attack pattern. So in that example it’s a matter of not only memorizing the enemy attacks but also memorizing what counter move works best for that attack. There’s been many times that I can see the telegraph of an attack but I still couldn’t avoid getting beaten down because I’d yet to understand how to defend it.

Also, there’s times when a boss attack is indefensible, cannot be shield blocked, parried, or dodged, and so the only recourse is tactical positioning because once you recognize the attack starting, it’s already too late if you’re close to them.

The same can be said for offense — some player attacks are useless against a certain enemy until you follow a pattern to get them into a vulnerable position. Usually it means baiting them into a move which opens them up.

All of these tactics are timing based to an extent, but the parry is the move which seems the most dependent on not just recognizing a memorized pattern but having the reaction timing down to parry the attack. That third layer of knowing the timing window is what has scrambled my mind on some games (not just From’s) and has been my concern with Sekiro, since as you mentioned, there’s no way to get through the game without excelling at the parry. But your enjoyment and enthusiasm for the game has definitely made me reconsider my concerns, because I know you previously have always said you’re a ‘sword and board’ type of Souls player. And yet with the lack of a shield, you’ve still really enjoyed Sekiro. In fact, I wonder if playing Sekiro has opened up your mind to trying a playthrough of other FromSoft games with a ‘shield-free’ build that depends on using parries to survive. Maybe you’ll consider doing a dex build of Dark Souls 3 where you dual wield katanas? 😄

@Th3solution I think, a lot of my prowess in the Souls games, has been pretty much tactics combined with an op build, with more debt owed to the op builds than anything else, to be honest, I was so overleveled for most mid-late game bosses in these games that I didn't have to spend much time learning the attack patterns, certainly not being required to know them off-by-heart, which is definitely essential for survival in the world of Sekiro.

I would definitely encourage you to go for it, if you feel like you can handle the parrying, Sol.

@Th3solution I was no good at parrying until I played Sekiro. Wouldn't say I am amazing at it since, but I am not so against trying it out in games where it is an option.