Poll: What Review Score Would You Give Horizon Forbidden West: Burning Shores?

I voted 9 as I'm loving it. I'm not finished yet but I don't expect the quality to drop..

Lol don’t poke the bear! It was great quality for its price. Keep them coming. 8.5/10

Only thing I didn't really like was some of the dialogue was cringe.

I agreed with the 8. A strong 8. A point knocked off for a good, but not special, storyline and one for finicky platforming in parts...minor quibbles though, a great time in general and sumptuous.

I went with a 9 just because tying down a machine, leaping in the air while grappling to it, stabbing it and then blasting it with an arrow doesn’t seem to get old.

Maybe it was the novelty of it but the first game didn't seem nearly as heavy handed in its messaging, whereas FW and Burning Shores seem to be really piling it on. Then there was the lack of chemistry in yet another potential 'ship (I swear there's been like 3 now and they all seemed more organic) along with some fairly cringe dialogue tbh. So that's the bad imo.

The good is that it was more robo dinosaur slaying in a beautiful future landscape. So there's that also. Still think the weapon/outfit upgrades are way too grindy but overall the gameplay itself is always a blast.

6.5 / 10 for me.

Did the entire story of the expansion and still finding things to do. 20+hours for 20$. It's pretty great.

8/10, Great story, great setting, some tough new enemies and a really awesome final fight, a little on the short side but for the price, it's really great.

What is with all the nit-pickery regarding female protags? They're too feminine. They're not feminine enough. Their jaw line is wrong. Too hairy. Too ugly. Too plain. Can anyone imagine people analysing a male protagonist this much? Maybe I just don't notice but I feel like this never happens.

Edit: stupid swipe typing

Fantastic new environments and machines. A fun new companion that challenges Aloy and provides a meaningful storyline. The graphics seem to push the PS5 in the right direction. - 9/10 for me. Though I do feel bad for the players who lost an imaginary girlfriend

I gave it a personal 8! I enjoyed the DLC and going with a certain big battle, I could see what it was decided that it would skip the PS4! Also, the reason that this was getting so badly review bombed didn’t even impact my thoughts on the game at all. There was more than enough of a choice available that anyone that didn’t agree with the direction didn’t even have to go down the route that had so many up in arms. If was a none event in the end.

@kyleforrester87 even with a predominantly male demographic I find this obsession bizarre. And I'm not some kind of flaming feminist either. I just don't sit around giving a lot of thought to the minute details in a game character's appearance outside of "does the art look cool?" Like I give a **** what the mocap actor looks like. Idk, maybe I'm just a simpleton.

9/10. I would’ve preferred a longer $40 expansion but still a great DLC despite only taking 15 hours to complete everything.

Gave it a 7. It was good but I just couldn’t vibe with seyka and aloys dynamic. Didn’t feel organic like say Ellie and Dina’s relationship did in tlou.

@kyleforrester87 Isn't the second comment doing just that? Not even sure to what trend they are referring and maybe it's more benign than I'm imagining but man the discourse around female characters gets tiring.

Idk, maybe I just have other stuff bothering me lol.

9 Easy.

Tons of fun from start to finish. $20 is simply crazy value.

And for someone like me that also plays games to see Digital Art in motion it was simply fantastic. The talent is on full display.

Hell yeah... Save the World, get the Girl. No way I was not picking that option.

Cringy dialogue and didn't love the story, but enjoyed the exploration and combat aspects. I do enjoy identify the beasts weak spots, and the best weapon to hit them.

Some real wow moments

Nearly voted 8 but voted 7 instead.

I loved the first Horizon game but I lost interest in the main storyline after they jumped the mechanical shark in Forbidden West. The main storyline feels like a bad SyFy show now. Burning Shores is still fun to play but it doesn’t really go any deeper than that for me anymore. I did like Seyka though - I thought she was the best part of the dlc.

One criticism of the dlc specifically… I think it was a mistake to have the flying mount unlocked from the start because it removed the need to travel on foot and reduced the feeling of danger/wonder when exploring the new map. Your flying mount should have been destroyed as you flew towards the Burning Shores and only replaced when you override the Waterwing.

Easily a 9 the amount of new mechanics they added is awesome and a sweet little preview for horizon 3 which I’m dying for already. HFW with BS cemented it has my second favorite open world game ever behind RDR 2.

@Titntin Same here, I voted 9. I'm taking my time with and exploring and it is SO MUCH FUN.

It's a 7. The villain is basically non-existant although I did like the last boss fight, the new character is a bit annoying, written like an MCU character and the attempted romance came out of nowhere. Also only 1 new machine.

@kyleforrester87 I take it your not a horizon fan

Solid 8. Flying high through the clouds above apocalyptic L.A. feels just fantastic. The visuals are top notch besides the pop in. Story is okay as it sets the scenario for Part 3. Seyka was a good new character but it was all a bit rushed. The Horus fight was also just okay but nothing crazy. But overall a good expansion worth the 20€.

@kyleforrester87 that's fair enough, I'm surprised it's such a marmite game because I think it's a masterpiece but then again I can't understand how people love fromsoftware games but appreciate they are massively popular, each to their own I guess

Deacon St John rocking an awesome moustache. 10/10 all the way for me.

I had seen the headlines about "review bombing" over the past week but wasn't aware of why it was happening until yesterday. I'm not leaving a score here as I'm just now playing through the first game, but I've read both the reasoning for the low reviews as well as other people's reactions and wanted to offer some thoughts.

Videogames are a different animal from books and films in one key area: the player directly interacts with the main characters and influences the story and the world around them to at least some degree. The character is your avatar; there is a natural tendency to identify with a character and to subconsciously project one's own words, values, and moral compass onto them.

Nintendo Life ran a poll last week about whether Link should be voiced. One could offer similar questions regarding Master Chief removing his helmet. The reason such characters have stood the test of time and become iconic isn't merely because they're part of great games; it's because players can fill in the blanks in that silence with their own imaginations, it could be ANYONE under that helmet. This strengthens players' connections with them in very special ways. The instant you change that formula, you break that connection because the character becomes someone else's vehicle.

How does that apply to Aloy? First, consider what the Horizon games are about thematically. She's a former outcast traversing a post-apocalyptic landscape full of various tribal characters and robotic dangers. There's dozens upon dozens of hours' worth of exploration, item collecting, hunting, task completion, and engaging storyline. And up until Burning Shores Aloy did all of that as an avatar for the player...ANY player, regardless of personal beliefs or sociopolitical leanings.

I've seen a lot of spleen directed at those who take issue with the LGBTQ direction Guerilla took here, using words like "bigots" and "intolerant", but those words in and of themselves are ironic and hypocritical. Like it or not, a lot of people still believe LGBTQ lifestyles are amoral and destructive, whether based on religious beliefs or simple moral convictions. You may vehemently disagree and that's your right...but put the shoe on the other foot. My point is that the instant Guerilla took Aloy's story in that specific direction, she became someone else's vehicle to many, many players, the same as if her romantic interest had been male.

The bottom line is that this and most other videogames thematically have absolutely nothing to do with a given character's sexuality. It's at best superfluous and unnecessary, and inserting such content, whether to "check off a box" or to push a particular sociopolitical agenda (let's be honest, having the female leads of two of Sony's flagship IPs be LGBTQ is going WAY past mere "representation"), is a lightning rod that only serves to alienate and divide players.

That's not what we play videogames for.

I gave it an 8. It was a solid little romp. I really liked the world design; the map was far more interesting than the Forbidden West and also more manageable to navigate.

The story was meh. Same writing problems as Forbidden West. Hope that GG really invests in some new writers for the third game.

9/10 I loved every second but I do agree that the main campaign was a little bit short Frozen Wilds felt longer but overall it was fantastic ^__^

I gave it a 9. Value for money alone was brilliant (around 20 hours for me). Really enjoyed the new area, some fun missions and new machines were a level up from the main game.
Looking forward to the 3rd installment, I really like Aloy's character and the journey she's been on. Wasn't a fan of the love interest at the end though, came out of left field and didn't feel earned. But that's just me.

@Titntin Spoiler alert: The quality does not drop.

I finished it and I wish there was more.

@AtlanteanMan they kinda made her gay in Forbidden West though.

That said I'd have been okay with her being largely asexual.

@AtlanteanMan Well said, in terms of the origins of the controversy. I haven't played the dlc yet but did see the spoilers anyway, so I know the nature of it. Might be a little spoilery in your post though!

Miyamoto named Link "Link" specifically because link is the link between the player and the world. He's intentionally a vaguely defined hero with some fixed story and the rest is filled in by the player. Aloy has been that kind of character until now where it runs against Sony's more famous pre-written story ideas.

I think some of the controversy is really the same as the Mass Effect 3 ending controversy but gets tied up in the political hotbutton. You spend hundreds of hours making choices, shaping the character to who you want them to be and injecting yourself into the character and outcomes, then the game comes along and tells you "screw that, your character is this now canonically, choose A-1 or A-2", forcibly undoing all the head canon you'd build and conversation decisions for hundreds of hours. You can choose if Aloy kills characters in revenge or is merciful and lets them live, but you don't get to decide this about her. That's going to be controversial. Different people had built different ideas of who "their" Aloy is, and then the game forces a definition on players. Whether people agree or disagree about a players reasons for not liking that outcome, it's indisputable that for many players that will be arbitrary and forced and isn't the character they've invested in. Especially knowing that's where the next main game picks up, that leaves a weird connection to the character for many players.

@zupertramp ". Can anyone imagine people analysing a male protagonist this much? "

Did you miss the FFXV launch?

I've been a fan of Horizon ever since that initial trailer and I'd say that this is a good expansion.

Yet, I was still left somewhat disappointed. This is mostly due to my personal preferences, but in my opinion, I prefer the environments in Horizon in a more natural setting, particularly the cold and forested regions of the games.

The entire map being centred around LA just doesn't do it for me. It did provide some nice verticality, however.

@NEStalgia I sincerely apologize if my post was "spoilery" for anyone; I assumed the topic was common knowledge based on the numerous articles and user responses I had seen.

@AtlanteanMan Can just wrap the specifics in [bracket spoiler bracket] tags so anyone that didn't know doesn't stumble into some clues. It's probably pretty general by now but I'm sure lots of people don't know.

TBH I went out of my way to read spoilers when the conversations started about the ending because I was thinking it meant they killed Aloy off or time traveled and rebooted the world or something so I was relieved to find out it was only something like this

@AtlanteanMan

Straight sexuality is all over video games and nobody review bombs a game because of it.

In the Witcher 3, Geralt can bone like 10 different women in gratuitous fashion, and it's hardly important to the central narrative.

Get out here with your defense of selective outrage.

It depends.

As a standalone, it would be 8/10 (incredible production values, very fun gameplay but very weak story).

As an Expansion, it would be 5/10, as I would have expected more new things. I really got the feeling I was just playing a little more of HFW, and nothing really made me go "wow, that new and inventive".

9/10 - I wish BS had a tallneck. And on a personal note I should have saved the final main quest for last after clearing the new map.
Other than that, everything was excellent from story to environment, boss fights, new npc's, you name it. Great game. Looking forward to the conclusion in H3.

@AtlanteanMan Very well said!

Just an 7.5 in general, in terms of performance and visuals is total 10!, but the unnecessary "inclusion" it doesn't feel right. Aloy now is part of that "new gen characters" club, she could have been another Lara Croft...

@kcarnes9051 Believe it or not, some gamers don't care for sexual content in ANY context for the same reasons that some folks avoid movies or TV shows over excessive violence, profanity, or sexual content, whether it's because they have young children, due to religious beliefs, or simply personal taste. Most don't try to tell anyone else what they should be playing or watching; they just do their best to tailor their entertainment accordingly in an environment where it's steadily becoming more difficult, even with so-called "family" shows and media. Try and put yourself in the shoes of such a person, if only for a moment; how many "AAA" games right now would you feel comfortable playing? How often do you see the games industry or media going out of their way to cater to those folks and make them feel "included"?

As I said in my OP, Aloy had been an avatar for ALL players (and while it contains some violence and mature themes, the Horizon franchise is no Witcher) up until Guerilla's "creative decision".
What would have been your reaction had she, say, found and donned a "MAGA hat" artifact (yes I realize it's an absurd example but I guarantee an incendiary one, and that's exactly my point)? Depending on your personal politics you might do some review-bombing yourself for the same reasons: A) it's completely irrelevant to the theme of the game and everything you've been doing as Aloy for dozens of hours, and B) suddenly she doesn't reflect you or what you identify with/as because, in an instant, some writer took that connection you had for all those hours away and made her their own vehicle.

Blanket-dismissing others' concerns or disagreement over this as "selective outrage" is in itself selective hearing.

I just wished it added more to the lore, like the Frozen Wilds dlc.

@AtlanteanMan You just wrote a wall of text completely dodging the point I was making.

Games with lots of straight sexuality do not get review bombed for having straight sexuality in them—regardless if there is a segment of gamers that don't want sex in their games.

If a character in a game that previously had not expressed their sexuality suddenly expresses their sexuality as being straight they would not be review bombed.

It's being review bombed because she's gay. Not because sexuality is present.

And if Aloy had boned Varl there would have been zero review bombing. A small number of people may not have like it, but it would not have been review bombed like it has been.

Yes, selective outrage.

There is not a large contingent of gamers review bombing games for having straight sex or expressions of straight sexuality in them.

There's only a large contingent of fans review bombing games that have gay sex or expressions of gay sexuality in them.

Between a 6 or 7 but i gave a 7 for its visuals. Overall pretty underwhelming, adds nothing new and has all the faults of the main game. That said its still very pretty, fighting machines never gets old and the new area is an interesting new place to explore.

@AtlanteanMan Also comparing sexuality with a political leaning (MAGA) is absolutely ludicrous. Being LGBTQ is not comparable to a political party or political ideas. Sexuality is part of the essence of a person's being. Being gay is not political. It's reality for many people. Existing is not political. It's tone deaf to compare someone's waking reality to political ideas. Bigots make sexuality political by opposing sexualities they don't want to exist. Otherwise, it would be a non-issue. Non-political. You can't make something political until you make an issue of it.

Offensive comparison.

@kcarnes9051 And again, as I said in my OP, there are a lot of people who disagree with LGBTQ lifestyles and consider them amoral. That's always been at the core of what this is about: two diametrically opposed and irreconcilable sets of viewpoints of basic morality, right and wrong, even nature itself. In short, sexuality is a lightning rod in entertainment when aimed at the general public because it is a deeply moral issue for many people. Maybe you don't agree with them, and again, that's your right, but Aloy's story never had to go "there". Because it did, it alienated a lot of folks who just wanted to enjoy an epic adventure and escape from all the real world's crap, not be reminded of it by yet another corporation's intrusive virtue-signaling. And that isn't good for anyone involved in the long-term, including the hobby.

The fact we've gone back and forth like this is evidence that Guerilla made a bad choice here narratively, because this isn't what videogames are supposed to be about. It's also evidence that the review bombings aren't about "selective outrage", but rather that a lot of people have strong feelings on the subject. Legitimate feelings.

@AtlanteanMan Thank you for clearly stating that the reason why people are reviewing bombing the game is not because sexuality is present but because gay sexuality is present.

Now all you have to do is give up your stubbornness and admit that nobody would be review bombing this game if Aloy had expressed her sexuality as being straight.

Then we can confirm your double standard hypocrisy.

Expressions of straight sexuality is okay. But expressions of gay sexuality apparently are not.

That's bigotry. And bigotry hiding under the guise of morality should always be called out.

Disguising bigotry as morality is what is truly immoral here in this situation.

The vast majority people don’t care about Aloy’s sexuality. But some percentage of anti-gay activists do and they are the ones doing the reviewing bombing. I think it says more about them and about how the internet gives power to small fringe groups to harass others. Everything is Gamergate. https://deadspin.com/the-future-of-the-culture-wars-is-here-and-its-gamerga-1646145844

You don’t even have to make Aloy go down that path.

@LightningLeader What you do not like females, or you like men?

The gameplay is the DLC was better than HFW. That was enough for me. 9/10. And then the graphics! Amazing!

I think the writers really need a plan for Sylens. He stole all the scenes. I don’t know how they can replace him. Or do without him. I think the reason HZD story was so good was the Aloy-Sylens relationship. HFW didn’t do that as well.

5 or 6/10. The relationship stuff felt a little pushed in and unauthentic (people don't have to go for that option though if you don't want to which is crazy that this blew up. Mass Effect did years ago and now everyone is up in arms). Gameplay was more of the same which is likely great for some and lame for others. I had a lot of graphical errors in my playthrough too which really threw the experience overall.

Also the dialogue kept missing the bar and made the character development felt so...Marvel-esque and that's not a good thing.

If you love the game I'd say get it and you'll love the expansion.

@kcarnes9051 Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you hate them, and believing a behavior is amoral isn't bigotry. Bigotry by definition is an irrational and unjustified hostility toward a specific group. Maybe you don't agree with, say, Christians or Muslims for believing LGBTQ behavior is a sin, but guess what: their beliefs are, to use your own words, part of the essence of their very being and that encompasses a LOT more than just opinions on that one topic. To just dismiss them or anyone else as bigots or "intolerant" for holding to traditional values civilized societies have adhered to for centuries is the very definition of irony. After all, didn't they review bomb Hogwarts Legacy because of Rowling's personal views? Talk about double standards.

I believe we've said enough here. Neither of us is going to change the other's mind. Take care.

@LightningLeader let me guess, the totally optional kiss???

@zupertramp that's how betas are dude, pathetic.

@NEStalgia if you're talking about the kiss you should know its totally optional bro

@AtlanteanMan

Attempting to shove LGBTQ people back in the closet using coercive methods to remove them from media and society at large is absolutely hostility felt by them.

Consenting LGBTQ people harm nobody. They make choices about their own bodies. Religions do not provide sufficient evidence as to how LGBTQ harm anyone. Thus there is nothing immoral about being LGBTQ. Suggesting that LGBTQ is immoral based on an absence of evidence that it harms anyone is absolutely irrational.

Hostility + Irrationality = Hatred.

Sexuality is not a belief system and comparing the two is not an valid analogy.

@LordBakemono Yeah, I did read the spoilers but also that it's set up so that whether you choose the action or not, the mutual intent is there, so it's still the game choosing your direction there, vs how games like mass effect, fire emblem etc let the player decide those aspects of the character. Fe has more of a true blank slate avatar where mass effect has a defined character like alloy that's still open to players making those kinds of more self-projection on the character. I do see how it breaks the connection to the world for a lot of players invested in who their aloy is in head canon.

@NEStalgia "Did you miss the FFXV launch?"

That's a resounding yes. So I'll take your word for it.

1/10

I have not played it and won't any time soon but it seems to make people really angry so it must be pretty bad.

@AtlanteanMan Best comments on the internet. I really appreciate your civil insights and watched with fascination as the same thing happened that always happens: people start screaming for inclusivity while rejecting all other ideas. The very thing you pointed out several times. Hypocrisy at its finest.
And as a traditional value Christian I can attest to your argument. I've missed SO many cool-looking AAA games because society no longer "includes" people with traditional standards. The irony is uncanny. Haha.
Having said that...I'll wait and see what Horizon 3 ends up offering but I'm likely exiting the series over this. You hit the nail right on the head. It broke the promise to the player set in Horizon 1 and forced a character onto me I dont want to follow. I hope all who dont mind enjoy the game but I dont need it in my life or in my house.

@AtlanteanMan I was wondering when you’d get around to this: “believing a behavior is amoral isn't bigotry.” That’s some spectacular hair splitting given that what makes someone LGBT is that they exhibit LGBT behavior. By that logic, theft is immoral but thieves are A-OK. I have some modicum of sympathy for those who are uncomfortable viewing displays of same sex affection, but to say that an entire group of people is immoral because of who they happen to love is just appalling, and a textbook example of bigotry. Fortunately, there are a dwindling number of people with similar views, as even in a country as conservative as the U.S., less than 30% find same sex relations morally wrong. (Gallup, 05/2022)

While I’m here, I may as well address some of the other pachyderms in this room full of elephants. Your blank slate avatar argument doesn’t really stand up in this age of character driven games. Are you really making the case that characters that aren’t tabula rasas, characters like Lara Croft, Solid Snake, and Cloud Strife haven’t stood the test of time? And for heaven’s sake, sexuality has been in video games since Golgo 13 on the NES, or if you have terrible taste, Custer’s Revenge on the 2600. I don’t think it’s caused the industry too much over the past 40 years.

In any event, I apologize for the length of my screed, but not the content. I hate long posts but sometimes a downvote button just doesn’t get the job done.

I finished it in about 6 hours.. and most of that was slowly flying a Water Wing from location to location.. I didn’t feel the incentive to explore everything.. it was beautiful, yes.. but aside from its beauty, it was meh.. I went up into the clouds maybe twice because it took way too long to fly up there.. the boss at the end was the best part of it all.. maybe I’m just wore out because I just finished my 155hr AC: Valhalla run the day before I started it.. don’t mind me.. Horizon is easily one of my fave franchises these days.. not hating

Gave it an 8, but the final boss sequence was a 10.

@zupertramp "Can anyone imagine people analysing a male protagonist this much? Maybe I just don't notice but I feel like this never happens."

Well, I see it happening right now with Cal Kestis. Another remarkable example that immediately comes to mind is Deacon St. John.

@Art_Vandelay ugh, now you're making me feel like I gotta go back and read all the articles related to that Jedi game but not looking forward to it. Kinda also didn't get into whatever game Deacon was in, I'm blanking on both games jeez. But yeah, fair point I guess. Though it's hard to compare when I don't follow either.

@zupertramp Yeah, Star Wars Jedi: Survivor.. just released. I don't know how widespread it was, but I did see a decent number of complaints about Cal. How unlikeable he was, and all. I even saw some journalist complaining about his beard lol. I played the first one (Fallen Order) some time ago and didn't have any issues with the protagonist. Not remarkable in any way, but that is par for the course with Star Wars these days.

Now Deeke from Days Gone.. Wow, that bothered me. Not the guy, which was also totally fine, but the discourse around the game. I loved Days Gone and thought it was totally mistreated by the press. And the protagonist was a centerpiece in many outlets. Anyway, don't wanna get into it here but the point stands.

@Art_Vandelay yeah to be honest one of the reasons I haven't been too interested in the SW Jedi games is partly because I find the main character kind of bland. I guess that makes me a hypocrite but, idk, it doesn't have really much to do with his gender but maybe I'm just splitting hairs.

Deacon on the other hand seemed fine I just couldn't get into the game which seemed more a result of two fatigues coming together at once - zombies and open worlds.

Whoever voted 1/10, needs to re-evaluate their lives lol