Topic: PS4pro | OT

@BAMozzy - Before watching that video of Mantis Burn Racing I was expecting it to be like the PS3 launch title Motorstorm but instead its like Micro Machines. It's a bit disappointing as I'm thinking of getting a PS4 Pro next year.

@MaccaMUFC: I loved Motorstorm but this is more like Micro Machines or Motorstorm RC and I quite enjoyed those too. It isn't a AAA release but a 'budget indie' game after all. It also offers up to 4 player split-screen gaming and on 4k TV's, this means each player will have a native 1080p resolution.
I guess it depends on what you want of course but this could be a bit of nostalgic arcade fun as opposed to all the 'serious' sim style racers we seem to be getting. I would love to see a Burnout (or Motorstorm) game as I find Sim racing rather boring - most I can do is 3-4 races before I get bored but arcade racing is a lot more fun...

That seems weird. It's like every different wing of PlayStation is doing something different at the moment with no proper communication between themselves. Maybe they'll bring out a VR Pro somewhere down the line..

For me, as a personal opinion. I think PS4 Pro is the first time in this gen that sony's message isn't quite clear. We know that the base ps4 model stays around and pro is supposedly for the person who really cares about graphics and 4K as well as a smoother VR experience (everything else being the same between the two models) but while a game like ROTR offered different choices about how you want to use the extra power on pro (focusing on framerate or 4K or better graphical settings and effects) it seems ROTR was the only game that offered this choice (please correct me if I'm wrong) . other games seem to only offer the same but in 4K.
What i understand is that you either get the same level of visuals but only in 4K and HDR or you get some slightly better visuals on more common 1080p displays. So even if you have the tv that supports both 4K and HDR you are still getting the same game but only in a upscaled image. the question in my head is that to what extent is this better than, say Xbox One S upscaling the games to 4K. The problem is that this whole thing is impossible to show and explain without an actual 4K tv in front of you.

Smoother VR experience with Pro, except when you want to see HDR in a normal game and have to unplug everything..

@Retro1994: The difference is much more significant. With most upscaling, you start at a certain size and stretch it up to fit the screen. That's what the XB1s does, that's what TV's do as well. As I have a 4k TV, EVERY game I play is upscaled to fit my screen. The XB1s does that before sending it to a TV but the results are identical to playing a game on a standard XB1 or even a PS4 - although in some cases, the PS4 looks better as it starts at a larger, sharper size. At 1080pm an image is stretched to 4x its size to fit, at 900p its 6x and at 720p, its stretched to 9x its size. The XB1s will still be native 720-1080p - exactly the same as the XB1. The XB1 often upscales games to fit a1080p TV - all the XB1s does is stretch the image further.
The PS4 Pro could use this method of stretching to fit and would average around 2x (or less) stretching. It has at least 4m native pixels (4k is 8m, 1080p is 2m, 900p is 1.5m). However Sony are using checkerboard rendering to avoid stretching the image to fit. What checkerboard rendering does is start at 4k size and draw 50% in one frame and then the other 50% in the next frame in a 'checkerboard' pattern - using algorithms and borrowing from the previous frame to fill in the missing bits each time. This makes a much sharper and more detailed image than the standard stretching method as its essentially still a 4k image but only half gets drawn at a time - no stretching involved at all.
Killzone Shadowfall and Rainbow Six Seige used this method to get a higher quality image than would be possible by the more common stretching.
Developers have a choice on how to use the power. Tomb Raider are opting for 3 different choices where as some will start with the 4m pixel option and downscale (shrink) to 1080p. Its still a 'better' PQ as 4m pixels gives far more detail etc than 2m can deliver.
Take a digital photo and blow it up to 400 or even 600% and see how poor it looks. Take a large photo and shrink it down to 50% and see how much more detail it retains - that's effectively what upscaling and downsampling does.

@BAMozzy: Thanks a lot. lots of good information and a good example.

everything you need to know: http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii614/potatochip666/ps4_z...

So I just want an opinion here but is it a goofy idea for me to contemplate getting a PS4 Pro if nothing else but for a bigger HD? Right now I am so annoyed at my launch PS4 as I am finding it so hard to have access to my game library. Seriously I don't understand why we have to install games when we have the discs, PS2 didn't install anything, Xbox 360 was an option, but that's another rant.

Anyway I want to be able to have access to my library and not to have to install, uninstall, reinstall all the time especially cause I hop games alot. So I was thinking of saving up for a Pro.

Now I don't have a 4K TV and don't plan on getting one for quite some time so the enhanced visuals will mean jack to me. And I have no interest in PSVR. Really I would just want the bigger HD.

So would that be a waste?

@Tasuki: Remember that the visuals will also supposedly be enhanced at 1080p as well so the Pro isn't all about 4k and HDR.

I wouldn't say it was a waste but it depends on your situation. You could just buy a 1TB hard drive and put that into your current PS4 if you just want the extra space and don't want to spend all that much? Alternatively the slim model has a 1TB option, as do some of the original PS4 models.

@roe: Yeah I realize that I can go through the process of swapping out Harddrive but I am one of those people that I am afraid that doing so would harm it. Yeah I have people tell me it's so easy but yeah. Which is one reason I would wish that Sony would hurry up and add an update to use external HD.

@Tasuki: The PS4 Pro is more of a future proof console and it appears relatively simple to change the HDD so in theory yiu could have multiple HDD's and swap them out but still not as 'easy' a solution as external HDD support.

I know that you (like myself) are not someone that replaces a console just because a new (PS5) is out but something you are likely to hold onto for many years to come. The PS4 Pro will of course be of benefit if/when you upgrade your TV but even now will offer something to 1080p TV gamers. Its not just a small resolution increase or slightly better visuals (according to DF its a noticeably better PQ) but increase and/or more stable frame rates too. Its inevitable that games will require more and more resources to run and devices with 'fixed' resources (like consoles) will require more and more sacrifices to ensure they run acceptably. Whilst that may mean a simple case of more and more games running at 900p instead of 1080p, it also means that compromises in visual enhancements - like shadows, lighting, particle effects/physics etc. It may not be important to you, I don't know. According to DF, RotTR has settings that appeared to be equivalent to a PC running the game at 1080p on ultra settings as well as the option to play at an unlocked 60fps. DF did a good comparison of the XB1 and PS4 version which highlights some of the sacrifices the XB1 version had to make comparatively - shadows was one such area (no leaf shadows). In a year or two, who knows how big a gap games could appear between the two PS4. Games on PS4 (for example could be running at 720 or 900p with low visual settings, unstable frame rates etc and easily running at 1080p with higher visual settings and locked frame rates. Of course you could just buy a 2TB internal and quite a few games for the same money or even wait to see what transpires over the next few months and save the money in case Sony do catch up with the competition in terms of external HDD support.

I know my PS4 Pro will end up in the Bedroom when the PS5 releases. Its likely my next 'Bedroom' TV will be 4k HDR too. Even though I expect Sony to release a next gen console in 2-3 years, I still expect to hold onto my Pro for a lot longer and I expect it to be more future proof.

From the official FAQ page... https://blog.eu.playstation.com/2016/09/08/ps4-pro-the-ultima...

Q: What benefits does PS4 Pro provide when played on a non-4K HDTV?
PS4 Pro offers benefits even if you play on a HDTV that isn’t 4K. Depending on how the developer chooses to use the increased processing power, games with PS4 Pro support are able to render higher or more consistent framerates, increased environmental and character model detail, improved overall visual quality, and other related visual enhancements. Additionally, PS4 games that render below native 1080p (maximum quality for HD TVs) on the standard PS4 can be elevated to render at full native 1080p on an HDTV.

Q: What resolutions does PS4 Pro support?
On 4K TVs, games are capable of running at up to 4K (3840 x 2160 pixels, also known as “2160p”) resolution. On HDTVs, games will run at 1080p

Q: How does PS4 Pro compare to the standard PS4?
PS4 Pro is significantly more powerful than the standard PS4 model. PS4 Pro’s advanced graphics processor unit incorporates many features from AMD’s latest “Polaris” architecture, as well as some fully custom hardware innovations, and is considerably more powerful than the GPU included in the standard PS4.
All in all, this increase in processing power enables developers to tap into far more demanding visual features for PS4 Pro owners, including smoother or more stable framerates, support for 4K rendering, advanced graphics features, and more.

Q: Outside of higher gaming performance, 4K TV features, and support for 4K video streaming, are there any other benefits to PS4 Pro?
Yes. PS4 Pro will come standard with a 1TB HDD, faster Wi-Fi (IEEE 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac), and a third USB 3.1 Gen.1 port on the rear of the unit. PS4 Pro’s more powerful hardware can also benefit PlayStation VR games, enhance streaming features such as Share Play and Remote Play, and enable higher resolution output for media captured using the Share button.

Q: Will PS4 Pro support PlayStation VR?
PS4 Pro will fully support PlayStation VR just like the standard PS4. It’s important to note that PlayStation VR’s integrated display tops out at 1920 x 1080; it does not support 4K output. Also, the PS VR headset does not support HDR features.
That said, PS4 Pro’s upgraded processing power will give VR developers the ability to enhance their experiences with higher quality graphics, smoother or more stable framerates, and visual improvements in supported games. Developers can also choose to add PS4 Pro features to PS VR games post launch via a downloadable update.

Q: Will there be any changes to Remote Play or Share Play with PS4 Pro?
Yes, PS4 Pro’s increased processing power can offer significant streaming benefits if the internet bandwidth is fast enough. Remote Play users on PC, Mac, or Xperia will be able to stream gameplay from a PS4 Pro system at up to 1080p. Share Play users on a standard PS4 or PS4 Pro will also be able to stream gameplay from a PS4 Pro system at up to 1080p.
With both Remote Play and Share Play, PS4 Pro’s adaptive streaming technology will attempt to optimize streaming quality to make the most of available internet bandwidth. For the best experience, we recommend a 15Mbps or higher connection and using a wired Ethernet connection (not Wi-Fi) whenever possible.

Q: Will the Share button capture higher quality game content with PS4 Pro games?
When playing a game with PS4 Pro features, using DUALSHOCK 4’s Share button will generate higher resolution gameplay clips and screenshots compared to the standard PS4. Specifics will vary by game, but some games will support full 1080p video capture, and screenshots at up to 3840 x 2160 (4K) pixels.

Q: Will I be able to Broadcast my gameplay at higher settings?
Yes. At launch, you will be able to broadcast a YouTube stream at as high as 1080p and 60 frames per second.

This is a very interesting read - a discussion with Mark Cerny about the PS4 Pro, why Sony opted for the elements inside, its capability and what that means for us gamers...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-inside-...

These 2 paragraphs are probably the most important for 1080p TV owners and the future of consoles...

But there was good news for owners of standard HDTVs too. Moire patterns and temporal shimmering disappear in Shadow of Mordor, giving a much cleaner presentation. Rise of the Tomb Raider's unimpressive, pixel-crawling AA solution gives way to a pristine, solid look. PS4 Pro works best with a 4K display, but there are genuine wins here for those with HDTVs and with Paragon, Tomb Raider and Mass Effect Andromeda, it's clear that key developers want to appeal to those perhaps not ready to upgrade to a 4K screen.

But perhaps the biggest takeaway I had from the meeting with Mark Cerny was the insight into how Sony views the console generations. PS4 Pro and Project Scorpio have been seen as the beginning of the end of the jump to a new, more capable wave of hardware in favour of intermediate upgrades. What's clear is that Sony isn't buying into this. Cerny cites incompatibility problems, even moving between x86 CPU and AMD GPU architectures. I came away with the impression that PS5 will be a clean break, an actual generational leap as we know it. I do not feel the same about Project Scorpio, where all the indications are that Microsoft attempts to build its own Steam-like library around the Xbox brand, with games moving with you from one console to the next - and eventually, maybe even to the PC.

I also think the Scorpio will be a mix of a mid term upgrade - offering 4k improvements to many of the existing game library in a similar way to PS4 Pro, but also a 'next' gen system with its own software - certainly will be the
ONLY Xbox console to run VR games and I wouldn't be surprised to see 3rd Party games releasing on Scorpio only too. MS are more likely to release its own software that runs on both the XB1 and Scorpio (unless they too make VR games). I also think that the XB1 gameswill almost certainly not have all the features that the Scorpio can offer - we have seen games on PS4 and Pro have VR levels/bonuses (Rise of the Tomb Raider, CoD:IW etc) so why wouldn't Scorpio too? Doesn't matter if you own a PS4 or PS4 Pro, ALL features are offered regardless - OK so you may need a headset to play VR but you are not excluded because you own a PS4 or feel you have to buy a Pro to access these.

Amazon are currently selling the PS4 Pro for £332.49...

Found this bit while googling for upcoming game bundles....

Standard PS4 games will play just the same unless devs patch them

For the more than 700 or so existing PS4 games, Cerny said the goal was to ensure those titles played smoothly no matter what. That’s why the Pro incorporates an identical GPU. Because the new console has "the old GPU next to a mirror version of itself," Sony can support existing games with a simple trick: "We just turn off the second GPU," he said. Developers can patch these titles to boost graphics and performance in very subtle ways. But unless you have a 4K television, the difference will not be substantial.

if accurate, this is unfortunate because it would mean framerate drops in unpatched games would remain, unless they are cpu bound.

@Mega-Gazz: Of course that is quite disappointing! However the GPU is clocked quite a bit higher than the one in the PS4 and the CPU even more so. The Polaris GPU is also more efficient too and even half of it means an increase from 1.84tflops to 2.1tflops - which is a 14% increase without taking into consideration any efficiency bonuses. The XB1s is 7% better than the XB1 and that directly translated to a 7% increase in performance out of the box but that does use the same architecture.

Of course the improvements maybe minimal in existing games with unlocked frame rates and/or dynamic resolution especially compared to what they could be if all the GPU was accessible but many of the upcoming games will be getting 'pro' support anyway. It could be PR spin as well to say that the 'Pro' won't significantly improve existing games - similar to how MS did, to keep existing PS4 gamers happy. Compared to what the Pro with full support can offer, a more consistent frame rate does seem rather minimal. If a game (like Doom for example) sticks to 1080p 98% of the time and 'mostly' 60fps, but averages 56fps overall - running effectively at a locked 1080/60 100% of the time is not that substantial.

@BAMozzy: They Should have hired you too reveal the pro and market it ur doing a better job than sony at the moment

@SKC_Diamond: LOL - Thank-you

I have just ordered a 2TB internal for my PS4 Pro. I looked at a few including the very popular 'Spinpoint' M9T and Seagate 'Barracuda'. However I settled on a Hybrid drive by Seagate (Firecuda). Its only 7mm high but also has quite a decent cache, SATA3 and 5yrs warranty - hopefully this will perform very well....

This video may answer a question about fan noise and heat...