Topic: Demon Souls Remastered. Is it, isn't it?

How difficult is Demons Souls? I have had my eye on it since getting a ps5, but the difficulty deterred me. I beat returnal (saw the credits twice) and realized difficult games can be great! So my question is, how difficult is it and how is the difficulty compared to returnal?

@Just_2_milky I'd say it's a different kind of difficulty. The lack of randomness and the ability to level up make quite a big difference - especially the former. You can't level up before the first boss, but serves as a good introduction to the game. I finished Demon's Souls and actually found it easier in many ways than Dark Souls 3 - which I've finished twice. You can also open shortcuts which makes getting to later areas much faster. I think Returnal also has this but it's more frequent in Demon's Souls I believe.

What makes Returnal harder for me is the randomisation, the lack of progression and the fact you can't keep any gear and don't know what you'll get. I can pretty consistently get to the first boss but often it takes ages and usually I have no hope due to having terrible gear at that stage. For me, Returnal is too hard (or at least, I'm not willing to stick at it). I do think it's a great game though, but just not for me right now.

@Just_2_milky @mcdreamer I'd say Demon's Souls has been more difficult for me so far than Returnal was. Returnal I found was about getting into the groove each session and once I'd got that I often found that I was able to make good progress, even just unlocking weapon traits and artefacts or building up obolites or ether that might all help me that run or subsequent runs.

Demon's Souls being so much slower is more about timing and being off ever so slightly you can get really punished for. I've definitely found that I've died way more in DeS than in Returnal and it's taking me way more goes to get past the bosses. You can spent some time grinding things out though if you do get stuck, so if you are prepared to do the same bits over then you can build up souls to spend on stat increases or items from the merchants that persist across runs. All weapons and upgrades on them also persist so it means it's a lot less of a lottery each time and you know what gear you are going to go into a run with. Also as @mcdreamer mentioned there are lots of shortcuts that you can unlock on the way so they make going back to a boss way easier, at least for the bits that I've played so far.

As I mentioned on one of my previous posts it was also Returnal that got me into this game as I found that I was enjoying the difficultly. In the same way Returnal was rewarding when you finally beat a boss Demon's Souls also gives you a real sense of achievement and I'm really enjoying it because of that.

After a bit of a break from this while I’ve been away it was nice getting back into it. I managed to beat both the leechmonger and the dirty colossus in one session so feel that’s some good progress.

@JohnnyShoulder I have found that the maneater is my undoing though as I’ve had three goes at that now and haven’t managed to stay alive for two long. That definitely proves what you were saying about some people being good at one boss but not at others.

What’s the deal with the red coloured enemies though? I can see they are stronger more powerful versions of the normal enemies but previously when beating one of them they haven’t returned on those levels. With the one on the way to the maneater (the squid faced witch on the staircase) even after beating it it’s still there next time. Did I just get lucky with the the others?

@render yeah so there are phantoms who exhibit a red aura and the odd plain old red enemies, of which you are describing the latter. He's just a tougher version of the typical Latria triangle-tinkerer.

On the Maneater (& I've as yet only played DeS PS3... but its probably applicable) put everything you got into the first one that lands. Go all out and he should be near death by the time the second one descends. When the two are around its tempting to dodge-roll but I would advice not to... its all too easy to roll off the platform to your death. Use a shield rather than roll in this fight and get that first Maneater down ASAP.

@colonelkilgore Cheers, that explains the difference with the red enemies. That one on the stairs is really annoying and, like you say with the maneater, rolling off is just too easy. Using lock on also ends up making it doubly easy to do that as with flying enemies going upwards it kind of pulls you around so you end up going a different way than you expect.

I’ll give the shield a go 👍.

@render no probs bud... also with that red enemy prior to the boss fight. Let him descend the stairs while you are far enough away that he can't see you, then when he turns around sprint after him and try and get two big hits in before he can even turn around.

@render Some people did struggle with Maneater. Possibly up there with Flamelurker the boss that people struggled with the most.

This is when having some kind of range attacks are handy, both for red squid head and Maneater. With the squid head you can hit him from afar and then hit him again when he turns around. Not sure if you can with magic, but with a bow and arrow you can manually aim and zoom in.

@JohnnyShoulder Cheers, will definitely try out some ranged attacks to see if that makes it easier. I've been using a bit of magic and a bit of the bow and arrow for other things but I've not really upgraded them much so not sure how powerful they will be.

@render there are a couple of insane bows in DeS, definitely worth a look.

@render Probably had my bow upgraded a fair bit by then, and it can be a bit finicky to use in the middle of a boss fight having to switch between your sword and bow, as it would take an age to defeat them with only a bow (and use up a lot of arrows) if you've not upgraded it a lot and not used to using it. If you have put a good amount into Dexterity, bows can be lethal with the right arrows.

@colonelkilgore @JohnnyShoulder Excellent advice. I managed to take down maneater using a combination of sword, magic and bow. My bow wasn’t great so will definitely be upgrading that.

Went on to beat the monk straight after, which turned out to be really straight forward compared to maneater. Being as I’d done that I thought I’d get on and have a look past the fog in level one. Managed to get all the way through to the boss.

Needless to say he lived up to his name. I might be waiting a while to go back there 😂

@render nice dude! Sounds like the game has clicked with you... you'll have the Dark Souls trilogy, Bloodborne and Sekiro done by 2023 I can tell 😉.

Yeah the big boi at the end of 1-2 is actually fairly straightforward once you have the right strategy. Trouble is there is a trophy on the PS5 version to beat him without using that strategy... and I'll be going for the plat, so that should make the fight 'interesting' at least for plat-hunters.

@colonelkilgore Ha ha yeah that's definitely where I'm headed I think. In fact I think all the Dark Souls games are on sale at the minute so I might just have to make a purchase to back that up 😀.

Annoyingly I didn't look at the trophy list before I started as I didn't want to spoil anything but I know now that I've missed a few. I might just have to start another play through once I'm done. I heard that there is a NG+ but I'm guessing that ups the difficultly somewhat?

@render I'm pretty sure you would have to go into ng+ whether you were tracking the trophies or not, so you might still be on schedule. With the Dark Souls trilogy you have to atleast go into ng++ for the plats.

Yeah ng+ does ramp up the difficulty but it's only really noticeable in the bosses... particularly the later bosses. See by the time you enter ng+, you're so comfortable with your build that you'll fly through mobs and even some bosses.

Ng+ affected the Dark Souls games more imho as the bosses are more skill-based and less 'gimmicky'. So, there are some bosses you barely speak by in ng and then you get to them in ng+ & ng++ and it gets real.

@render Yep you need another playthrough for the platinum. Make sure you read a guide before you start a new game as there is quite a lot to do beforehand.

The Old Monk fight can either be really easy if you fight against the AI or extremely difficult if you get a high level human summon. The same mate that struggled against Maneater had the latter, so wasn't having the best of luck lol.

For the boss in 1-3, you can rescue an NPC in the area which helps you with the boss. A word of warning however, i found it made the boss really easy and I kinda wished I had a few more goes on my own against him.

@colonelkilgore @JohnnyShoulder Cheers guys, I'll definitely check up on that before I start another game. I only bother with the platinum if it's a game I really enjoy so will most likely have a go at it for this one. I'll also have another few cracks at that boss to see if I can do it solo as I'd like to do them all that way with this play through if I can.

This game keeps impressing me with the fact that there's so many different aspects to it. I know that Bluepoint have done a great job remastering it but the existing code base was already pretty good by the looks of it. The amazing environments, varied builds and solid combat, and the network features. They must have really pushed the PS3 with this game.

@render As far as I can recall, the only gameplay tweaks Bluepoint did were to do with player movement, item burden, healing items and the camera.

I think there us a fine line to balance, as if you change too much you end up alienating fans of the original but if you don't change enough people will say what is the point lol. Bluepoint largely get things just about right I think, but you can't please everyone all of the time and there will always be some people not happy with the changes.

@render @JohnnyShoulder I wonder if Bluepoint even wants to make original content. They excel so much at remakes that it’s a great niche for them. But I’m curious if they’re starting to get antsy to stretch their creative freedoms more.
It seems the rumors of a Sony purchase are unfounded. Or at least fell through, since we’ve not heard another peep after that whoops! image came out with their logo instead of the Housemarque logo.

@Th3solution @JohnnyShoulder Like you say they are just amazing at what they do. It seems that they genuinely love the games that they remaster, and that's probably what drives them. In the same way as MS are adding stuff to run old games better Bluepoint seem to have tasked themselves with keeping these games relevant in todays world. They certainly hit the mark with these last two, Shadow of the Colossus was fantastic as well!!

They seem to be a really good fit with Sony as well as they both seem to work together well and Sony has a great back catalogue of games. It would be a shame to lose their abilities if someone else snapped them up. I can imagine that working on their own game would also be a completely different experience as they'd need to have some really imaginative writers and artists, plus they'd have to come up with their own gameplay mechanics etc. It could be an interesting challenge for them.