Topic: Corona Virus Panic/Discussion Thread

@RogerRoger ""When will this end?" nonsense (a message driven entirely by corporate greed and journalistic boredom)"

Not sure that's entirely the case, I get where you're coming from and the general point of your post is correct but a lot of regular people want to get back to work in a safe way, it's not about corporations wanting to get back to making money off the back of their dying employees. Don't disagree with the media aspect, though.

@RogerRoger Wow

I mean, I did listen to the statement and form my own opinion. I actually have zero problem with setting out a phased return and I don't have the scientific knowledge to know whether today, tomorrow, or next week is a good time. I'm not actually arguing the validity of staying in lockdown or not.

My concern is that the message is not clear. Can anyone tell me what industries and types of businesses should go back? I am running the return to work policy for my organisation and there is, as of today, NO published government information on what social distancing in the workplace should be considered acceptable or what we need to do to lower risks. I have workers today who don't know what they are going to do about childcare if they are considered OK to go in. Schools has some clarity, but not other childcare instiutions. My wife works in a pre-school - they have been told unofficially they can open from this week but NOT officially and whether that means I now need to look after the kids. I have workers who use public transport that they have been told not to use if they can help it but can't help it so what impact and provisions should businesses do to help and aid that.

Now all these answers may filter through in the meantime of course - I know the argument will be made for common sense etc. However, what was clear from the statement yesterday is just how fragile the situation is - any wobbles risk us going back into full lock down. In my mind, that means that clarity is your main weapon. Whatever the plan, whether it went further than the statement or was more cautious should have detail available. Imagine if there had been published at the same time a set of more detailed guidelines, adding flesh to the bones how much better that would be.

I do like to make light of things, and my apologies to all that disagreed but I'm deep into dealing with the fallout this morning and people out there are confused.

@kyleforrester87 I think we do need a little mothering - I mean stay at home, save lives was translated as some as have a street party and do a conga with a skipping rope. I personally think we can go back to work if safe to do so but I have no guidelines on what makes it safe to do so to refer to.

@Rudy_Manchego I think he meant more generally and not you specifically 😂

As for what measures businesses should take a lot of it does seem to be common sense to me for small companies, I dont think 2 or 3 people need any special instructions beyond what they have already got used to over the past couple of months (and we can assume more instructions will be forthcoming over the next few weeks, but as I said it makes sense for those who can to make a head start on it) but from the perspective of liability/accountability in particular I agree there needs to be guidelines so companies (big ones in particular) are not perceived just to be winging it. Sorry you appear to be getting shafted by it, I had one of my contractors ask me if we were open again today and she got a very sarcastic response from me

Having listened to what Boris said yesterday, I think he could be a lot better at delivering a clear and concise message. Too much rambling.

A plan for a phased return sounds sensible but if the plan isn't communicated properly then things are likely to be a lot more chaotic than they should be.

@RogerRoger @kyleforrester87 I am a Sith lord and I only deal in absolutes

That's my point - what would be the danger of that statement being delayed until that info was ready so that people do things right. So that some people are not crazily overcautious and others are not too slack. My work is winging it right now but erring on caution.

I don't like to dabble into politics very often on here but I think the government's handling of this situation has been feeble. I'm also alarmed by Britain's death toll going massively under-reported, with barely a mention of the fact that we have the second highest death toll in the world after the USA. I'm not sure people even realise that to be honest, such is the lack of coverage. I'm a BBC News apologist, always have been, but I was disturbed to see an article on their website going with the angle "Italy has the highest death toll in the EU" and it was only when I scrolled down did I find a whispered paragraph about how "Britain's is higher, but we are no longer in the EU" (in case we'd forgotten about that whole Brexit thing) Instead, we're being distracted with fluff like the manic obsession in the press with this year's VE Day, which feels like an attempt to puff up national pride, ensuring that people come out the other side with a sense that the British Bulldog spirit prevailed.

Sure we can laugh at the Americans, with their President telling them all to snort Dettol or whatever he said, but we're in a crisis ourselves and yesterday's message felt like saying something for the sake of saying it

@Rudy_Manchego @LieutenantFatman There is an element of people playing the victim though. It's easier to just shrug your shoulders if in doubt and stay at home. The situation hasn't changed materially overnight. I guess if a company isn't sure about opening the easiest thing to say is we arn't opening, but I really don't see the point in putting restrictions on other businesses that ARE in a position to safely reopen.

I would say it's smart for companies who can to start getting some staff in for limited hours, working out social distancing routines in the workplace and getting them used to the idea of the new normal. I think the relaxation of the rules just gives companies the chance to do that. I dunno, thats how I see it anyway.

@Gremio108 BBC did make a fairly big deal about UK having 30k+ deaths to be fair, although they did drive home the point that direct comparisons are difficult. Anyway, even media sources I usually rely on (like BBC) are doing my head in recently. Best to ignore all of it if possible. It's never a competition but 30k deaths is always worse than 29k deaths, it doesn't really matter the context. I think it has had less overall impact here due to the health service not being overwhelmed, but I understand Italy struggled with this aspect.

@RogerRoger "whilst I know and love people struggling under lockdown"

bit harsh!

@kyleforrester87 It just frustrates me. It seems like it should be common knowledge that the UK has the second highest death toll, but it isnt. Instead we see footage of an old man walking around his garden for the fiftieth time (although fair play to the bloke) and then we spend the rest of the evening laughing at Donald Trump (again, fair enough). I know what you mean about news sources - sometimes I feel like I've not been reading the same papers.

There are positives though. All this weekly clapping should hopefully have secured the future of the NHS for decades. Imagine if Trump tried to buy it now.

My spell check just tried to change NHS to MGS. Food for thought

@kyleforrester87 I sort of agree or at least don't disagree. I think the vast majority of people want to do the right thing by the country and yes, get to work but also be safe and not make things worse. People are also still scared you know and do feel better if they know they are following rules. This goes both ways - it protects those who might be forced to work when it isn't safe or appropriate and it also supports those who refuse to do something that is safe and sensible.

@RogerRoger Don't worry - I may have gone off half cocked and I know you are one of the good guys! I seriously recommend watching the Matt Lucas impression of Bojo doing the rounds on social media. Pitch perfect comedy!

@Gremio108 I had a 'disagreement' with my MD today because I said well we have a high death rate and he said yeah but you can't compare with other countries. There is complete truth in that, since we all count differently, different demographics, different culture, healthcare systems etc. but I mean, when a large country like South Korea or Germany does much better than you, we should be asking questions. Not blaming but not being blind to the fact we may not have got it right or we need to do XYZ to succeed.

We’re still in lockdown in Scotland and I think that’s the right choice for now. Leave it another couple of weeks because the curve needs to flatten and then wait a wee bit longer to avoid a sharp increase. Besides, the amount of people wandering around in the sunny weather means that we’re barely in lockdown anyway.

@Rudy_Manchego There is absolutely truth in it yeah, but it's funny how that argument has only started doing the rounds since Britain overtook everybody else...

@kyleforrester87 'Just seems like people want to be mothered a little!'

This is a weird line of the coronavirus discussion. I don't know anyone who won't go back to work.

Who wants to be mothered or be on benefits? I've heard a tory mention we are addicted to furlough. We've had what 1 payment? Jeez hold the back pages we've had 1 flipping payment. I take massive offence to that. Massive.

Plus we are not allowed to open, it's not a case of trying it out with social distancing - we are not allowed to open until June. And rightly so we are towards the end of the first wave of a Pandemic which has taken 32k lives (more likely over 40k). Track and trace is not even up and running and low paid none essential workers in factories are potentially being put out to slaughter. They can't raise health and safety concerns else lose their jobs.

@Gremio108 100% agree. I was expecting a road map of recovery. Inside the 'traffic light system' is no detail. You can meet one member of your family outside - wtf is going on here?

I've said it a ton of times. With a Pandemic you have to go all in on the measures you implement or not bother at all. These wishy washy rules are unpolicable. The slogan is a nonsense and I'm fed up of being led by people who haven't got a clue. Germany has the template down, they had dates for individual parts of the economy.

@themcnoisy plenty of people out there like to be hand held through life, I’m not suggesting we don’t need guidance but let’s be honest, some people will always find excuses not to help and make decisions for themselves. Please do not interpret this as me suggesting we wing it, either. Edit: and to be clear, I know of 2 people who have been quite happy living at home with mum on furlough and payment holidays on their cars etc. One was taken off furlough today, to his disappointment. There will be many out there.

You’re allowed to goto work if you can’t work from home and can work safely, the problem is you can’t let customers in. My colleagues can’t meet people looking to rent properties at flats because “going for a viewing” isn’t a reason to be out. So yes we are stuck for now, and you can argue that’s for the best from a social perspective.

That said it might make sense for certain staff to begin going in again, even if it’s just to get the place set up for a potential early June reopening.

There will certainly be clarity and dates over the next 2-3 weeks so you can look forward to that.

If I'm honest I feel really vulnerable in supermarkets, so being at work in an environment I have more control over doesnt seem so bad.

@kyleforrester87 I would have thought you'd be more worried about COVID-19, mate. Hope you're keeping your immune system as strong as you can, because this government's strategy doesn't appear to be in the the best interests of anyone that can't 'take it on the chin'. Hopefully it will mean a second wave doesn't hit the UK so hard...

@kyleforrester87 @themcnoisy I grew up on benefits my whole life, my mum struggled with the four of us for years before being able to go back to work about 8 years ago. It’s impressive that we’re actually worse off now she’s working than when we were on benefits, that’s just how it works. The furlough payments just aren’t enough for the working poor to survive, they need the whole month’s pay. Especially given that the furlough only covers contracted hours, not how many you’d actually work in a week. I don’t know anybody who’s relatively poor that doesn’t want to go back to work, the only real skivers are the middle to upper class, always have been, always will be.

@Wesker I certainly am worried about the idea of getting it, just trying to keep a level head really. Work and back on my bike is relatively low risk, being in the office around minimal people while social distancing can be relatively low risk with planning and care, home is low risk so hopefully I am about as covered as I can be without being stuck at home for the next year or more which I'd have a really hard time with. As I mentioned I think supermarkets are going to be the worst. It might seem like I am being flippant but I'd rather try and take some control than be a passenger along for the ride.

@nessisonett of course, situations will be different for everybody - my general point is it is not difficult to find somebody in life playing the victim.