Demon's Souls PS5 Demo Running 1440p, 60 Frames-Per-Second

To be fair, there was one drop when some huge boss smashed his shield down releasing a torrent of flame and particle effects, other than that is was fully locked.
Looks like performance mode is the way to go, with 1440 and likely some type of dynamic resolution being more than good enough visually. I always thought 4K was a huge waste of resources.

I was genuinely shocked to see very, very few dips in framerate considering it looks this amazing. Performance mode all the way for me!

If you need digital foundry analysis to tell you it’s in performance mode then that’s definitely the way to go for normal gameplay.
I suspect the 4K mode will only be used by people who want to capture still images with the photo mode (assuming the is a photo mode).

The fact Digital Foundry had to go ridiculously in-depth to work out the resolution tells you all you need to know about native 4K being a waste of resources (as mentioned above!).

Digital Foundry puts considerably more effort into their analysis of a game's resolution and performance metrics than probably any other YouTube channel centered around such content in recent memory. Really can't wait for a full analysis of PS5 games from them on launch day.

Main thing for me is how it looks and how it plays, and in both cases the game play knocks it out the park
Got my PS5, pulse head set, demons souls and my Spider-Man MM pre orders locked in. 19th November can’t come quick enough

I really want this as my first PS5 game....but on the other hand I'm not keen on destroying a dual sense controller so soon after getting it!
Who am I kidding, day 1!

I rather thave 1080p/1440p with 60 fps rather than 4K & 30 fps

I felt the same way about Blue Point's brilliant Shadow of the Colossus. The performance mode and added frames made the presentation more stunning, imo. I wish developers would focus more on 60 FPS than 4K.

@TheFrenchiestFry But what happened to Demon’s Souls being 4K 60FPS thanks to that dedicated VRAM being way better than lowly PC peasants 😂😂

@ShogunRok So now real 4k is not really desirable anymore? I bet good dollars that if the ps5 was capable of 60fps on real 4k it would make all the headlines. I personally preffer 60fps than 4k anyday. But then again I have ps3 games that run at 60 fps perfectly smoothly (sengoku Basara, GT5xl, etc)

Not really into playing remakes. But the amount of work that went into remaking this is obvious.

When they cut resolution (or super aggressive dynamic rez) in a rehash and still has awful FPS - That never makes sense. You cutting, but still not fixing anything.

But if locked at 60fps @1440p, that is a good deal. Especially if they can confirm that it is with RayTracing on.

@Oscarjpc It’s not that 4K isn’t desirable, it’s that upscaling tech is good enough to make native 4K a total waste of resources.

1440p 60fps is just fine. It’ll look great and feel smooth. Bluepoint are fantastic at what they do.

Most important question for me, is it still crazy difficult. It just looks so incredible but what’s the point if I never get further than 5 minutes in and don’t get to see it all. Will definitely need to try the demo first.

Some of those bosses look like they've been pulled straight out of a Frank Frazetta design!

@Oscarjpc According to DF, going for native 4K is a waste of resources. It was that video they did around a month or so ago that had 2k looking better than 4k. It showed Death Stranding. I can’t remember the tech actually, DLSS maybe.

@OmegaStriver
It was the NVIDIA DLSS (Deep Learning Super Sampling) 2.0. Basically it made the image crisper than 4K, without gobbling up resources.

Demon's Souls had that next-gen wow factor that people have been looking for, and clearly it's nothing to do with resolution. There will be people who take this as "evidence" (yawn) that the PS5 is too weak to do 4K60. Until the DF anlaysis noone was saying Demon's Souls looked low Res, they said it looked amazing. If it looks this good at 1440p and this smooth at 60fps, why would you play it at 4K30? You will hardly notice the resolution bump but you will certainly notice the frame rate reduction.

@ShogunRok @get2sammyb
While I agree with the sentiment that FPS>resolution in most cases, I think you have to be at least slightly disappointed that 4K60 isn't a target for PS5 (which was supposed to be a beast). I'm guessing it could be similar with XSX.

@get2sammyb @ShogunRok thats what I've been saying all along about native 4K being a waste, nobody was complaining about how this game looked when it was shown off and it took a lot of work to discover what its resolution actually was. Simple fact it the game looks amazing and they're putting that power to use where it matters, it'll be interesting to see how different its 4K30FPS mode actually looks

@gollumb82 I believe its more to do with the graphical fidelity of the game and of course those huge bosses which will be very taxing on any hardware and having to balance resolution to get those to work at 60fps. Funny thing is the reaction to this and Halo Infinite couldn't have been more different, yet one is 4K60FPS and I didn't see many complaints about this not being 4K until we were told so

A lot also depends on screen size and viewing distance and this is the trouble with HD 1080p and above resolutions.
Then factor in programme techniques and starting resolution and up scaling technology and it all becomes one massive subject with a large variety of factors.
That concludes that it is not an exact science.

@nessisonett IT'S ALL IN THE VRAM.

"although with image quality this good we’re not sure why you’d select it over the boosted framerate version"

You're not sure why people would pick 60fps over 30fps 😑

I don't have a problem with games using lower resolution, where it would be a problem is if the multiplats are of lower resolution compared to xbox. That would be a giant marketing gift to Xbox and another black eye for Sony.

Ive never played Demon Souls

*ducks

If y'all keep saying 4K is a waste then the Series S looks like a good deal to the general population then.

@Medic_Alert
I agree with you on all counts. I also agree that this might feel like a let down as I think both flagship next gen consoles were touted as native 4K machines. I guess time will tell if going sub 4K but 60fps is more worthwhile than striving for native 4K at the cost of performance.

DF is very happy about it. I'll take that over the keyboard warrior experts. 🤓

@gollumb82 Makes the cheap Series S look like a really viable option. Cause it's 1440p at 60fps and 120fps and can upscale to 4K.

@nessisonett My favourite has been Push Square pushing that 4k is the future the last few months. Until the PS5 is only doing it at 30fps. Then suddenly lower res at 60fps is their standard, despite years of insisting it didn't make a difference. Sad.

BUT THAT SSD THOUGH!!!! I laugh derisvely at anyone who tries to talk about the PS5 SSD and IO like they have a single clue what they're talking about.

@1_W1NG3D_4NG3L
I went with QLED (Q7) and I'm very happy with it. I have a friend who bought an LG OLED (B9) and 6 months after purchase already has image burn. I suppose the OLED will do away with image burn at some point, but your best bet is to find someone who has had one of those for some time and could tell you if this gen of OLEDs if more resistant to image burn/free of it.

@AdamNovice
'Pixel count is a real challenge'
'Presentation turns out brilliant and clear'
DF

People still think graphics is all about resolution now? 🙄

@Weebleman Lucky you then you are in for a treat.

@Oscarjpc
Look at the game here. Do you really prefer more pixels or more details?
It's a choice I suppose. There are games going for pixels over details.

@1_W1NG3D_4NG3L
LG OLED highly recommended with the 2.1 feature and 120 hertz 4 k. And VVr ALLM and atmos audio 🔉.
Burn in is not a big issue as people mention. And LG service helps out even after 1 year

@TheArt
Yup, I think Series S is poised to attract especially more casual gamers who don't care about resolution/fps, or are on a budget. I personally went for Series X and I'm very much looking forward to getting it on launch day (as opposed to PS5).

@1_W1NG3D_4NG3L If you have static images on screen for 8+ hours/day every day (news channel tickets, game HUDs, etc.), then I would go with QLED over OLED.

If you only play games for like an hour or so/day and then switch up to movies, TV shows, etc. (basically varying your content), OLED is the way to go.

Look up Rtings Burn-in as that site has done extreme burn-in experiments with OLEDs.

@JapaneseSonic
You don't need to convince me. I thought HZD, Days Gone, Uncharted 4/LL all looked superb. If next gen can deliver this kind of image/graphical fidelity then it's good enough for me!

Another unneeded remake, just make a new game in the series or play the original version.

And we had 4k/30fps and 1440p/60fps last gen. If it isn't 4k/60fps or 8k/30fps it is not "next-gen".

@Medic_Alert Series S isn't targeting pixel peepers that say things like "LoD" and "draw distance". It's targeting the mass market that's been gobbling up Switch at the same price point with graphics above and beyond X1X/PS4Pro, and second console owners.

Of course it wouldn't be using the "full fat" textures this is using, so it wouldn't be capable of quite this output.

I'll gladly take 1440p at a rock solid 60 fps over 4k with a shaky 60 fps any day.

Honestly the fact it can hit 1440p at 60fps WITH RAY TRACING enabled is astonishing yet apparently this is a fail? Absolute bollocks and personally i'll always pick frames over resolution can't wait for this game never played the original

Now this may be controversial but I believe native 4k is a massive waste of resources.

The question is why is it not 4K 60fps? It should be capable of 4K 60fps as standard. 1440p 60fps is what the Series S can do, a low-specced £250 console, this is on a full fat PS5 which is £360/£450.

It may still look glorious and not matter to some who don’t care for 4K and think it’s a “waste of resources” but you have to ask why is it not 4K 60fps? Is it a dev choice or is the console unable to run it smoothly in 4K?

Every time I’ve watched this I’ve been impressed. I can’t see any aliasing. It’s impressive!

Native 4k is a waste of resources when AI upscaling like DLSS or even Chequerboard rendering can create images that can look like 4k. The PS4 Pro had a number of 1440p games but really didn't look as clean or sharp as a native 4k or even CB4k image.

4k IS a waste IF you have other rendering techniques such as DLSS upscaling to improve the image quality, resolve the 'fine' detail without the upscale blur you get from a lot of more traditional upscaling. But 1440p is the 'worst' looking out of Native 4k, DLSS 4k (even from 1080p), CB4K and as we don't have the Native 4k version, you don't know how much softer the image is, how much 'fine' detail is lost etc.

Its like saying 1080p is a waste of resources when you could render at 720p for a better frame rate - but then 720p was PS3/360 standard and was still 'blurry' because of traditional upscaling methods. Even 900p wasn't 'good' enough last gen and there was a 'noticeable' drop in PQ - and that's the equivalent of 1800p to 4k

I am not saying this looks bad at all - although in fairness, I have only watched it on my 1440p laptop screen at 11.2" with youtubes compression. 1440p with RT and 60fps is still an impressive feat for a console (if this indeed has any RT at all - no sign of it in the trailer). Therefore, I am not able to see how much the decision to go for 1440p affects the PQ compared to a native 4k version. a 720p image looks 'great' on the Switch's small 720p screen with a 1:1 pixel map but that same 720p image on a big 1080p screen looks decidedly worse...

4k "is a waste and doesn't matter" when you don't have it and can't do it.

60fps "doesn't matter, makes no difference and 30fps is fine" when you can't do it.

Never change fanboys.

@Menchi Calling folks fanboys while insulting peoples choice of gaming console is juuuuuust a touch hypocritical.

@Medic_Alert About the textures mmm I see. It's just ridiculous that noise was made about 4K60FPS and all of a sudden 4K is a waste...The Series S isn't really my target but I see a lot of people buying that if they feel 4K is a waste.

@gollumb82 Me personally I want to wait and see the PS5 and Series X battle it out for a while before I make a purchase. Though due to all the PS4 games and trophies I've got, makes the PS5 the inevitable choice but we'll see.

@Medic_Alert With optimisation, I have no doubt that 4k/60 is within the realms of Series X on a game like Metro Exodus without any compromises on the details. You don't need to run a game at 'Ultra' settings and often the difference between high and ultra is imperceptible because the 'quality' of the assets/textures etc at the greater distances is too small to even tell - yet eats up a lot of GPU resources. Ultra is a BIG waste of resources but its often used as the 'benchmark' settings for PC GPU's and as such, there is this idea that because a 2080ti may drop some frames below 60, that a 10 or 12 TF Console would therefore not be able to run games at 4k/60.

High res textures make a big difference in higher res games and give much more 'detail' - something the XB1X has in a few games. Games like Uncharted 4 has incredible detail for a 1440/30 game and you can't tell me games like Horizon: Zero Dawn, God of War, Last of Us 2, Detroit or Ghost of Tsushima look like they are lacking in detail - even if they are capped at 30fps. They are pushing at least 1440p or more on a PS4 Pro - something with just 5.5GB of RAM for games, 4.2TF GCN GPU and a Jaguar CPU.

I don't know whether this is using RT - which would be quite impressive and impossible to do on an AMD RX 5700 XT and maybe a RTX 2080 Ti could at more than 1440/60 with the equivalent PC settings but without RT, it doesn't 'sound' that impressive - even with all the details.

Again, not to say it looks bad at all but again, without context as to what this game could look like at 4k, how it compares to the PC (if/when it comes to that platform), you can't really draw any conclusions at all. Its not as if we will get to compare a 4k Ultra version to see what compromises were made and have some idea as to why the game is running at 1440p

@710King Play the old and look at this for me its totally worth it. And if it sells we will probably see Demon Souls 2.

@Medic_Alert I don't think it invalidates the original point though. That target market = most of the entire market. We few that sit here griping about texture filtering and AA methods and even 60fps are less than 10% of the gaming market. Most people neither know what they're missing or very much care about it. The industry would be just fine without any of us in our percentage. And that's clearly the strategy Sony's banking on at the moment. If Sony made a PS5Lite that was basically an XSeS running this game with reduced textures and details, that's where the money would be made - not us.

@Weebleman Where did I insult the PS5 in what I said? Well, you can't insult inanimate objects, but let me break it down for you.

I'm not laughing at people preferring or choosing to play on PS5.

I wasn't laughing at the inability to run 4k. I wasn't laughing at the inability to run 60fps. I was laughing at the fanboy/media narrative crumbling and the damage control the fanboys and media have had to pull off some hypocritical mental gymnastics.

Hope that cleared it up.

@Medic_Alert I admit I’m not tech-savvy or know in-depth technical details of the insides of the new consoles but after playing games in 4K 60fps on the One X for the past few years, I’d of expected the Series X and PS5 of being able to output games in 4K 60fps with ease, especially considering how much more powerful they are. I just hope we’ve seen the end of choosing either performance, resolution and modes like Rise of the Tomb Raider’s Enriched mode.

@710King yes it is. You're just looking at it at face value. Resolution isn't everything. You're missing that games are now going to be loading a lot lot more at once. You also completely ignore the greatly improved texture quality and detail as well as increased particle effects used now. Not to mention that ray tracing is very taxing and most of the 4k/30fps games are only that way because of ray tracing. And you seem to be forgetting that most 4k/60fps games from current gen were either upscaled or are much less intensive than next gen games will be

@TheArt
I get you. With all the digital games I've bought for PS4 it is certain that I will eventually get PS5. I went for XSX first because I happen to love the idea of Game Pass, as well as Microsoft's efforts on the hardware/software front. I was thinking of buying a gaming PC but it's way too expensive for me (I can get XSX and PS5 cheaper than a good gaming rig+ the simplicity of console gaming).

Sorry if this was asked already, I scrolled through most messages, but is this demo a good indicator of the PS5 supporting 1440p resolution output?
I'm fingers crossed for it

@Medic_Alert Hate to break it to you but I have actually played quite a few games that do 4K 60fps on the One X with games such as Doom, Halo 5, Forza Motorsport 7, FIFA, Minecraft, Super Lucky’s Tale and there’s a few other sports and indie games.

@Medic_Alert I may be misunderstanding the original context but I thought the conversation started out that if 1440p60 is the running target on PS5 then that helps Series S appear to be a great value. Your point was that you're not sure about that because of other IQ settings drops like textures and LoD that will need to be used on it compared to PS5/X. My point is, I agree with the original post - while you're right about other decreases it will employ, to the overwhelming majority of the market none of that matters. 1440p60 is 1440p60 and that box is cheaper. Looks like a great value in that context.

I LOLed at the rest though. "No strategy" is probably the worst case scenario, but with each day of silence, I can't help but feel the same. I sure can't figure out what the strategy is, if they do have one, that's for sure. I don't think they foresaw MS making such a move into the value market, and I think they arrogantly they thought their hardware would automatically be the best. And I get the clear impression that 7+ years ago, even though they made the move to x86 the industry demanded, they never, at all, actually understood why the industry demanded it, and missed the narrative of the past decade entirely. And then designed another bespoke console with a confused generational migration instead of really utilizing the whole point of x86 common architecture which is to avoid industry crushing generational migrations. Inward, backward thinking.

At this point I think Sony's argument to spin the narrative will have to be akin to "Blast processing." If they can actually wake up. And condescend to trying Sega's old strategy, or at least Nintendo's then-counter-strategy. If you have the weaker hardware but with "unique" features....how do you spin that as an advantage? Rhetorical, they're probably scrambling to answer that very question right now. This game is certainly pretty, but "1440p60fps" isn't going to win any marketing campaigns even if we know it's a pretty good showing, as enthusiasts. Then again we now have benchmarks showing MHW, an infamously terribly optimized, graphically showy game holding 60fps 4k steady, just running in emulation mode without even taking advantage of the new architecture on XSeX.....if that can pull off actual 4k60 without updates for the architecture and a totally incompetent developer, and Souls is doing 1440p60 with the new architecture with 1st party know-how and a super competent developer.....it makes me wonder where this goes.

@gollumb82 Yea they make it seem as though PC Gaming is cheap, consoles will forever remain the way to go for the majority. Affordability, simplicity, convenience. Seeing the prices of graphics cards...consoles are a no-brainer.

@Medic_Alert Yep true, I see a lot of people getting the Series S as a second console especially if Bethesda's flagship RPGs don't make it to PS5. This'll lead to a lot of Xboxes sold in the long run. I don't blame both of them - Sony & MS - targeting performance this time round though, because it was the same gamers crying for 1080p60fps during the release of the Pro and One X.

It already looks amazing for being Performance Mode, 1440p is good resolution. No need for more.

@1_W1NG3D_4NG3L Go with the LG CX.

Your choice is to risk a higher level burn in and have a dramatically better picture, or reduce burn in and settle with a backlit tech (where you lose your darker colors like black).

Image burn really depends on your use cases. Any content that regularly has high brightness, static (or near enough) objects on the screen displayed for hours at a time, will eventually cause burn in. Some examples of this are news and sports channels with the tickers/boxes on the bottom or corners of the screen.

I don't like the souls games at all, but damn this looks good. They did a wonderful job remastering this.

@Menchi ahhhhh, i see you were just enjoying a bit of sneering. So much so you repeated your comment twice in the same thread. As you were then.

Just to clarify, i didnt say you were insulting an object (PS5) rather peoples decision to choose it.

@Weebleman Nope, just the fanboys.

@1_W1NG3D_4NG3L it depends on what you want, but an OLED screen is simply unmatched when it comes to visual quality. If you're unsure, rather than research the difference between specific TVs you could research the difference between the display technologies.

@Menchi well, apologies for mis reading that. Crack on.

@1_W1NG3D_4NG3L
There is a feature that puts the screen in sleep mode when you don't interact with it for 5-10 min.. I got the c9.

What happend to 4K 60, or 4K 120, this is last gen performance 1440p kinda 60 are you kidding me, bro that was a mediocre presentation at best everyone be wow so much performance probably still playing on a ps2 holy *****

@AdamNovice don’t worry I know it hurts fanboy 😘😘😘

Most people are not technical and really don't care about all of these. Moms and Dads will not go on YouTube to check DF to see which console plays the games at the higher resolution. At the end of the day it's all about the games. Sony has the best games, frankly getting more expensive this time around, hopefully the quality will just get better. But on the other side Microsoft has GamePass. Most gamers will stay with their platform just to continue to play their backlog. I will not switch to Xbox just because multiplats have a better dynamic resolution, it's just silly. If you're looking for performance just switch to PC. It's all about the experience on a platform. I hope Sony bet wisely with the dual sense and more developers will take advantage of it, more than they did with DS4.

And also it's still very early in the development cycle. When PS5 devkits released they where built on unfinished HW. It's still a different arhitecture for CPU/GPU (I'm not talking about instruction set x86) devs need time to get acostumed with the new HW. We will see great things but later in the life cycle. Nothing coming out at launch will be optimez for the full potential of the consoles, not even from 1st party devs. Look at Sony - PS4 launch (killzone & infamous) - end of life cycle (horizon & ghost of tsushima)

Resolution is just semantic imo, I'm not so discerning to recognize a big difference, it's about pushing graphics and 60fps that is noticable more then anything, and graphics curve is so low it's not like 10 years from now we'll ever look back at the ps4 and go wow it's looks way worse then I remembered, everything is crisp and pretty already

@Wavey84
It's just 8 hours. We'll talk in a year or so. I won't argue as far as OLED superiority in terms of image quality is concerned, but I haven't noticed any of the issues you mentioned. It all depends on the input signal, of course. Watching regular cable tv makes me question if 4K isn't overkill. Games are where it's at, same for things like Witcher tv series where paired with HDR my Q70 performed good enough not to pay a lot more money for an LG OLED. A few years later when all the image burn issues are resolved and the prices have fallen I will eventually get an OLED. If not for picture quality then for Dolby Vision as it is pushing HDR to the brink of extinction. Anyway, enjoy your high end tv

@Menchi
You don't have to be a fanboy to understand that 4k is a waste of resources, its a comment that many analysis and PC gaming sites have been saying for the last couple years (including Digital Foundry, unless they are fanboys too?)

As for 30fps vs 60fps, unless a game has inconsistent frame rates, in 35 years of gaming (since 1985 on the NES) on PC and every major console, I have never once been able to tell if a game was 30 FPS or 60 FPS. As long as the game plays well, I don't really care.

The PS1 in many ways was technically inferior to the N64, the PS2 was inferior to the Xbox and GC, and the PS3 while more-or-less evenly matched with the 360 was difficult for developers to get that power out of it. The PS4 was a mixed bag (the base unit was a little better than the Xbox One, but the Pro was vastly inferior to the X) Yet Sony still managed to make a compelling reason to own a Playstation over their competitors of these consoles. That is why I am a fanboy.

On the flip side, the PSP was a generation ahead of the DS, and the Vita a generation ahead of the 3DS. Yet neither one gave a compelling reason to own them over their vastly inferior competitors.

Ideally, we could have both. The most technically superior, and the system with the most compelling reasons to play on it, but if we had to pick one, I know which one I would choose, every time.

@gollumb82 If you are ok with "good enough" then a QLED or similar backlit tech will suffice. But if you want to go beyond good enough, to amazing, an OLED like the LG CX will take you there.

You just have to decide if your use case will put you in a higher risk category for burn in (lots of news, lots of sports, or other high contrast static content, 10+ hours a day). Keep in mind that burn in happens all the time in QLED, LED and LCD screens as well in these same situations, it's just a bit more forgiving.

@thedevilsjester
There's also the issue of money Last time I checked (today) the LG CX 55 inch would cost me nearly twice the money I paid for my Q70. This will allow me to buy both XSX and PS5 close to launch. I love the LG OLED TVs but I can't justify spending so much on a TV set. Especially one that comes with the risk of image burn (I haven't experienced any image burn with LEDs, and I had two).

@gollumb82 I can't argue the price, since I don't know the exact model of Q70 you have (although the 55" Q70R is $1499 and you can get the 55" CX for $1599), which isn't much of a difference.

I can tell you that burn in with QLED, LED, and LCD screens is very real, and happens fairly often, its just less often than OLED.

If price is a concern and you have dramatically different prices, thats understandable; or if you have a use case that is likely to trigger burn in a lot quicker, that is also understandable; but if you are just afraid of burn in on OLEDs because of what you have read online, you should really try an OLED.

@thedevilsjester
Yeah, I will definitely buy an OLED tv a few years later down the line. For now I'm happy with my QLED. Thanks for useful advice though. Cheers!

@Wavey84
Yup, being a tech afficionado is an expensive hobby I usually buy a new tv every 5-6 years or so, so I'm confident OLED will have become standard by then, making it also more affordable. I'll definitely ask you guys about the performance of your TVs then as you seem to know more than I in this respect