Square Enix hasn't had a great time with its Western arm, has it? Following years of the publisher stating that its Western-developed titles, like Tomb Raider and Deus Ex, had underperformed commercially, it only went and sold off a bunch of studios and corresponding properties to Embracer Group earlier this week, for a relatively low sum of $300 million.
And now, it's just come to light that another of Square Enix's Western titles struggled to make an impact. Outriders, the RPG-shooter that launched for PS5 and PS4 in April 2021, has so far failed to break even or turn a profit. A gut punch for any studio, but at a glance, this will go down as another Square Enix cock-up.
It's a shame, too, because developer People Can Fly has done an admirable job of supporting the explosive action title. It's even got an expansion, called Worldslayer, coming in June.
It's also worth mentioning that Outriders is not part of the aforementioned deal that Square Enix has struck with Embracer Group. As far as we know, the Japanese publisher will retain the rights to Outriders, Just Cause, and Life is Strange.
Are you an Outriders fan? Do you think it deserves better? What went wrong? Remember to reload in the comments section below.
[source peoplecanfly.com, via tweaktown.com, eurogamer.net]
Comments 87
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Not surprised at all. Absolutely horrible game. Felt like a wave based can’t stop moving game with none of the stuff that’s usual for shooter type games. Hated it
I'd like to see like a really nerdy breakdown of the budget Square gave some of these Western developed games. It's just so strange how it seemed like all of these games never produced a profit for them. I mean how much went into marketing? I'll never forget hearing the Tomb Raider reboot failed to meet expectations after it sold around 7 million or so at launch. I play games where the developers celebrate just half a million! I mean what happened!?
But it launched on Gamepass. I thought that made every game successful automatically.
@Korgon I agree with you, I mainly play jrpgs which celebrate reaching a million, scarlet nexus recently celebrated 1 million copies sold so far, disgaea series total lifetime sales are at 5 million which they say is a success, even bigger budget jrpgs like persona don't reach 3+ million per game. I'd wager square enix make more profit from games like dragon quest, final fantasy, star ocean, triangle strategy, bravely default than they do with their western games like just cause, deus ex, outriders etc
So please square enix do us all a favor and stick to JRPG's 😉
Looks like having day one releases on subscription services just isn't profitable or sustainable, atleast not for big AAA games.
That better? 😉
That’s what happens when you put a day one release on Gamepass. 🤷🏻♂️
@Enuo This here. This should be the reporting. How can Square state, “We believe that our decision to make Outriders available with Microsoft’s Xbox Game Pass as soon as the title launched also worked in our favor," while the game is not profitable.
Did they expect the game to be a complete loss? Or are they required to praise Gamepass for a better rate?
Source: https://www.thegamer.com/outriders-xbox-game-pass-launch-square-enix/?msclkid=83d9d38bcd4911ec94526b6123ca21b1
@Korgon Exactly, Square was really doing something wrong as Hitman is doing really well now. Surely they could have kept ownership of IO and just let them run the company for them? Making the second reboot game an Xbox exclusive was a really bad move and probably putting Outriders on gamepass was probably also a bad business move.
Awww...nothing better to start the day with then a cup of coffee and an article about another failing live service game. 😁
One thing I can guarantee from this news is itll be on Plus soon. The new Sony loves to put failing mp games on Plus nowadays. Guess their getting them on the cheap.
I think it's really tough for some of these titles. We're in a weird period for the industry IMO. Costs are obviously exploding, but consumers are pushing back against higher prices and microtransactions. And then you've got the whole subscription conversation, with some arguing it's sustainable and others saying it's not.
Will be interesting to see where we end up.
Why would they choose to keep that one then? Very strange. I'm wondering if they have plans to rework the game? 🤔
@Uncharted2007 probably because it's a live service based game and they wanted atleast one of those for the western market in the future, so saves them creating a new IP from the ground up
I thought the game was good at first but then after a while when we ended up at the home-base, it started to go downhill. It was becoming the next Destiny-alike game. Marvel Avengers had that same problem when we ended up in the Helicarrier.
Another problem with the game is that it's just not as fun to play alone. Last time i played (been a good while ago now), matchmaking was broken. Nobody would join to help and i needed friends to play with. When I joined others, they had lower tiers but I wanted to keep pushing mine up.
I wish they would just focus on making a decent story game instead of trying to be the next Destiny clone
@Ken_Kaniff lmao agreed. Nothing makes me snigger like a live service/multiplayer game absolutely eating s**t
@BReal Why do you want games to fail? If they're not to your taste, that's obviously fine — but I don't know why you'd celebrate them not being successful.
Some people enjoy this game.
@get2sammyb you’d have to think the future will be 100% digital and will be a subscription service with tiers such as old games, “new to weekly” games and new release games with each tier increasing in price and granting access to the tiers below it. In an ideal world everything would be under the same banner aka a one stop shop like Netflix used to be. Knowing companies though every one will have their own and you’ll have to “hop” between them like with plethora of movie/tv show streaming services we have now.
And why would I want a game to fail? Because live service and online multiplayer games are cancer so I feel no shame in rejoicing at their failures. Also I care not for what other gamers like. Just my honest opinions and feelings on the matter. People may disagree and good for them
Game also fell in price really fast. I paid £12
I mean Outriders isnt really a live service game at all... Sure it has online elements like finding people to play with if you need it, but thats it? Its absolutely nothing like Destiny 2, where the actual game ebbs and flows and purposely changes with ongoing storylines etc every 3 month season. Anyways its no surprise it didnt break even, its a fairly average looter shooter. I paid £14 for it and it felt appropriate for what it was.
Is this why Worldslayer is $40, to try to finally turn a profit? It's one of the most expensive single pieces of DLC, outside of whale bait, that I've ever seen.
I remember game pass users talking about this game like if it was the next (exclusive) Destiny 😂😂😂
@get2sammyb I like them to fail because their oversaturated and designed to trap gamers into there ecosystem and to squeeze out a constant revenue from you while you endlessly run the same missions, or raids, or whatever the lifeless game design live service always tends to offer. Their slowly ruining the gaming industry. So yes I will always raise my glass and smile to a failing live service game.
@Ken_Kaniff Outriders doesn't have a single microtransaction tied to it, so what's the problem here?
because this game sucked
@LiamCroft he just hates multiplayer games .
Didn’t the developer a while back said something about fishy numbers and how they never saw profit share from Square despite knowing the game had huge user base across all platforms?
It sounds to me SE is simply being “creative” with the numbers to pretend it never had a profit so they don’t have to pay royalties.
Hopefully Worldslayer does well for them and that green lights the sequel
Never heard of the game I’ll be honest.
@Ken_Kaniff
A lot of people make the mistake of calling Outriders a live service game. As people who have played the game know and the devs have stated many times, it isn't. In fact it's not even close. There aren't any microtransactions, you don't have to consistently log in to do dailies, there are no season passes, tiered battle passes or constant content updates. You got everything when you bought the game, and just like older games did in the past, you get one or two paid expansions.
In all honesty, this game did not fail due to being day 1 GP release, it failed because it was bad. GP just didn't save it (which is probably going to be the case for most games with highest budget, but low enough quality not to merit additional player investments).
Someone pointed out in other thread that they are just doing some Hollywood accounting and the game did pay for itself. It gave example of their previous game that sold 3 million copies yet Square still said game didn't make any profit, suggesting they are trying to lower they tax pay. Aka tax evasion.
Outriders isn't a predatory live service and I like the developer, so this news does sadden me, honestly.
If the devs actually released the game in a stable state like they should have(Devs seem to really lack the knowledge to do this these days) then Im sure it would've made better profit. Not anything crazy I guess since the gameplay is just.... basic and uncreative.
Maybe the new Doctor Strange movie shows us an alternate universe where it didn't release on Game Pass and settles the argument as to whether it made more or less money by being on Game Pass.
I played on Game Pass and though it wasn't bad but wouldn't have bought the game.
I loved this game actually. Playing solo was a ton of fun.. the combat, the spells for your class was pretty cool. I quite enjoyed my time playing through the story and it was a good size story to. It's to bad for the devs here.... this game should have done better.
@LiamCroft Well good for Outriders, but 90% of these type of games do. The reason the game is probably failing is the lifeless design with endless runs of the same missions with boring bullet sponge enemies that I mentioned earlier.
@UltimateOtaku91 "Looks like having day one releases on subscription services just isn't profitable or sustainable, atleast not for big AAA games."
But now you have to ask the question "What's the excuse for the PS version?"
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When you have piles like the avengers and babylons fall, I guess mediocre successes like GotG and this, will get thrown out with the wash.
I actually like outsiders so its all good.word up son
@get2sammyb I think this is an interesting case to see on Gamepass. It may have devalued the game for those who don't have it, and how many played it on gamepass, or was the gamepass payment never going to be enough to pay for it? It also may have gone too far with the marketing budget. This game could be a perfect example of how Gamepass will not be sustainable long term unless prices rise so much we may as well start buying our games again.
@Royalblues But how much were those players worth compared to Playstation players? I paid $60 for it at launch. Word of mouth and it taking a while to get on gamepass may have been why gamepass helped. I would be surprised if revenue wise, 1 player on gamepass was worth even half a PS (or PC) player. I imagine even a third would be generous.
It was a hot topic for about a week or two, mostly due to Game pass then never heard of it again.
@Jaz007 Exactly what I was going to say. Also Scarlet Nexus is a much smaller game than Outriders with a fraction of the budget.
I liked the game, and I felt it was a solid experience to overall simplicity of its gameplay.
The they're not a live service hybrid thing is where they shot themselves in the foot. Nerfing abilities and such really hurt the game.
I am looking forward to the expansion.
They sold Tomb Raider but kept this? How strange. Or I guess, maybe no-one wanted it...
Isn't this news story about Outriders hasn't made a profit for PCF not SE. PCF have said they are yet to make a profit on the game not SE.
PCF don't receive any royalties from game sales until SE makes it's publishing costs back from "sales". I'm trying to find the source but I'm sure I read a news article last year about how PCF received no payment from the game pass deal because it didn't count as sales. SE kept all that money for itself.
I really enjoyed the game, it was fun and that's what I want from a game. Looking forward to the DLC and shall be buying day one. I just hope PCF can find another publisher because I love the studio.
@Cikajovazmaj I dont believe games that are for free on day one isnt really a smart thing. Especially when it has no recurring monetization thats called assisted suïcide.
And then be stupid enough to release it full price on other platforms to kill of chance of sales. Always online sealed its fate when online was not working on platforms that payed full the price.
I found the game fun but found out it was always online and skipped man i dodged a bullet there. 😁
Expansion aside it had zero paid content so they couldn't even rely on MTX and skin packs. Its actually a really fun solid looter shooter, the issues are fixed and it plays well on PS5.
I quite like the game..i bought it in a sale and i really enjoyed it..not perfect and a few naughty difficulty spikes but it played well and its a hoot in co-op..i've played worse games that have had better reviews..
This game had a huge number of players when it launched on Game Pass. The fact these players didn't end up sticking with the game/buying it outright, suggests more about the quality of the game than Game Pass itself.
Plenty of games that launched on Game Pass have lead to strong sales.
People think it was live service because (for some reason) it required an online connection to play. The devs said they needed it for updates or something.
The news is sad, mainly because Outriders is a fantastic game. It's a fast-paced, loud, crunchy looter shooter like the Borderland games. It had some cool features, like being able to "rewind" to any point in the campaign to replay that section, then skip ahead back to where you were. Great for grinding.
The end game was too tough for me, but I finished the campaign and I look forward to the DLC. I hope the new update gives them a big boost in sales and awareness.
If their Royalties were dependent on SALES only, then Square Enix puts the game into a Service that lets players play the game without BUYING it, they can use that LOOPHOLE to screw over their developers.
For example, if they set an 8m sales target, then put it in Game Pass. The game may SELL 4m copies with 20m players and thus turn round to People can Fly and tell them it wasn't 'successful' enough to get their Royalties.
Why would I 'BUY' the game at the moment when I can play it FREE with Game Pass - I may end up buying it when it leaves GP to keep playing, but right now, I don't need to spend money.
Square Enix do appear to be an unscrupulous Publisher - never satisfied with Sales and a company that would use 'LOOPHOLES' to screw their devs out of Bonuses they deserve. They would negotiate a deal with MS (who wouldn't know about any deals they have with the Developers) to get paid based on Player Numbers. In the 'example figures' I used above (NOT factual numbers) they would make a LOT of money for all those 16m players that played Outriders on Game Pass and then turn round to People can Fly and say it only Sold 4m so you don't get your Royalties...
Independent Devs are benefiting massively and most other 3rd Party Publishers are very happy with Game Pass and the increased player numbers and financial benefits that brings - I'm sure Square Enix are 'happy' too in Private with the 'financial' aspect and NOT having to give PCF their rightful cut!!
Give me solid singleplayer, price under £30 and I won't wait for a blink of an eye to buy it.
@__jamiie Its still in Game Pass so Game Pass subscribers don't need to buy it just yet if they still want to keep playing
I'm one that still plays occasionally thanks to the fact its still on Game Pass and will likely add it to my collection when it leaves - but right now, I don't 'need' to spend money on Outriders so haven't done so. Its been there since Launch so that is going to have an impact on the Sales on Xbox Platforms particularly...
It seems to me that Square Enix are doing this to screw over People can Fly to maximise their Profits and avoid giving them their rightful rewards...
@Royalblues you are telling me the company MS has payed a lot of money for most of their new games' marketing rights and that took the decision to put their game on gamepass because they knew it was the safest bet praised their own decision? Wow that's unexpected 😂😂😂
@BAMozzy Agreed. Square do seem to love these kind of sneaky practices.
I know that I've bought plenty of games after trying them on Game Pass. I've never played this and didn't actually realise it still was on there. I might give it a go and potentially add a sale once it leaves.
@Salt_AU To be fair, if I paid £70 for a game I'd play it to death whether I loved it or not.
I don't understand why you're using the choice available on Game Pass as a negative.
@Salt_AU And you have nothing to prove any of the claims you make!
And saying that you're not here to argue but then, finishing your rant with 'End of story', suggests otherwise.
@LiamCroft It is still a game that requires constant internet connection. This is bad!
@Richnj I never pay full price on any game released day1 on Microsoft's service. I believe it may not be the only one.
@djlard I would like to buy even with the current campaign, but only if it was completely offline. The simple fact that I need to be online to be able to play the solo campaign really bothers me! There's still another detail... I don't pay full price on anything that's accessible on Microsoft's service.
@IslandLogic Well I appreciate the intelligent correction.
@Royalblues What? Sony has plenty of things I don't like. I genuinely don't believe in subscriptions services like Gamepass as being good for the future of gaming. I brought up a point that while gamepass might have attracted enough players to double the playerbase, that portion of the playerbase won't be worth as much revenue. It was never going to sell as many copies on Xbox which is part of the reason it might have helped.
You talk about this place being a one-sided and more ore less toxic, yet tell me directly you're leaving because of it being a cesspit because of fanboys, then throw accusations at me instead of discussing the point I made. Me and my opinion on Gamepass has nothing to do with it being Xbox or Sony. I replied to your comment in good faith, hoping that if I got a reply, it would also be in good faith. It has nothing to do with console wars and you're frankly, being what you are complaining about with that post.
@Royalblues I don’t, and you don’t strictly accuse me of anything, but @somone in and then saying your leaving because the site is a “cesspool” kinda implies a lot lol. But thank for clarifying about that.
Have you tried the forum here? I haven’t posted on them lately, but it’s probably still the more core group of uses that will be better. Can’t tell any other sites sadly.
It's funny cause the misses only started when they made them work on marvel and other games rather than the franchises they are known for.
I am glad that this sale gives us hope and i dare say guarantees for the return of beloved IP's such as Deus Ex and Legacy of Kain.
I am ecstatic to see what's in store.
I like what Embracer is doing and am happy they brought back Darksiders and Kingdoms of Amalur and are making games that don't need to sell 5m to break even.
It's very healthy for the industry and for gamers.
Bring on the legacy of kain remastered collections to begin with! One with both Soul reavers would be a great start... or a remake of both games into a single one as originally envisioned.
I just realised this thread is about Outriders and i don't even know what that is. 😅
@Salt_AU looks like that TT percentage is just people tracked on TT. The actual PSN plat rarity is 7.3% which is similar to the 6% completion rate TA shows, assuming that number is more representative of Xbox overall and not just users tracked at TA. I'm not aware of any place I can view the actual Xbox completion rate since I don't play on Xbox.
The rarity on trophy tracking sites are almost always much higher than PSN overall (niche titles that are widely hacked tending to be the exception).
@Salt_AU I don't know how familiar you are with Xbox but their rewards program tends to mess up a lot of peoples completion rates. Before I joined I was very strict on trying to finish games I start whereas now MS award 'points' from time to time for certain tasks. I have an ungodly amount of games with 1 achievement in because a rewards quest has told me to earn an achievement on a game I had no intention of playing. I believe Outriders had one of these 500 point 'punchcards' shortly after launch.
Plays havoc with my stats but also nets me between £10-£15 a month in rewards points to make me no longer care about stats 😂
Sony should think twice before buying Square...
Square is basically cursed would take Sony down with them.
@get2sammyb "Costs are obviously exploding, but consumers are pushing back against higher prices and microtransactions"
Are they? Pretty sure companies still make a ton of money from MTX. Any evidence to the contrary?
I thought Outriders was a great success.
It's budget wasn't high, but it sold not bad at all. I remember, it was in british top 10 forca few weeks.
@Nem "It's funny cause the misses only started when they made them work on marvel and other games rather than the franchises they are known for."
That's not true at all. SE had plenty of misses way before that. Games like The Quiet Man would like to say hi.
@naruball I meant more on sites like this. The vocal players here and in other enthusiast gaming communities hate them.
Obviously plenty of others are still quietly buying them.
@get2sammyb but hasn't that always been the case? Has something actually changed?
The game was far from perfect. That said I feel the IP had potential. It's a shame there won't be another one.
@rumple1980 I disagree. Story was absolutely atrocious. Slapdash edgy nonsense with poor characterisation and voice acting. The RPG mechanics also failed to to give any kinda meaningful ways influencing or interacting with the setting for me.
@frankmcma @frankmcma what do you even see in it? All I got out of it was boring level design, bad storytelling, so-so shooting and graphics that felt 20 years out of date made worse by the mucky colour palate that was being used. The borderlands comparisons didn’t help and even that franchise had a bit more going on.
Can’t say I shed a tear for this one. The whole thing felt like disparate mishmash of better more established games (i.e. destiny, gears) but with very little of the elements that made those games as successful as they were.
@WallyWest Wrong.
@neitan I'm also trying to avoid AlwaysOnline games and programs. It feels like having your toy on leash... you never know, when someone pull...
@Blackjay Wrong how? Explain rather then just replying with one word.
@WallyWest well I’ve kinda stated my feelings on the game in my other replies as would just be repeating myself at the time but to reiterate, I found the game to just be lazy, obnoxious, unpolished and derivative of better things with little if any unique flairs of its own. Feels like the developers did the bare minimum and then left it at that.
Not surprising at all with how badly it's been reviewed everywhere...which makes me wonder why Square-Enix decided to keep it?
I actually quite liked the game and I like the developer as well; I think they’re quite talented. Unfortunate that this title hasn’t been a success for them as I think it’s quite well made and was a lot of fun to play. Despite that though, I will say that for whatever reason, I didn’t stick with it after I had platinumed the game. It didn’t hold my interest like, say, Returnal where I just found the gameplay loop absolutely addictive. I did come back to it when it had some DLC and I **might** grab the Worldslayer DLC when it drops but we shall see.
@Enuo You can be jealous of GamePass all you want, even that service won't save a horrible game like Outriders.
@djlard I only have two or three of these in my library. I bought it on sale, just to try it out, but it's not something I'll ever do again. I don't like to think they have an expiration date! I'm an old grumbler!
@naruball Ok, to clarify, i mean Crystal D and Eidos MR.
I had to google to even know what that game was and who made it. I didn't know either.
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