Naughty Dog May Move On from The Last of Us Like It Did with Uncharted

( inb4 any “last” puns )

i’d like to see TLOU2 multiplayer

the TV show is a hit. there will be a part 3.

A Last of Us 3 seems inevitable too me at this point imo, just with the direction Naughty Dog had been going and the ending of Last of Us 2. I really hope they throw their hat into a new IP before doing releasing a final part to a trilogy, however.

I thought they were making a golf game next.

I do think they will make a 3rd game, but they've not had a new ip since the PS3 at this point. Its time

"He explains that if Naughty Dog 'can come up with a compelling story that has this universal message and statement about love', the team will make it happen."

So they are fine then ending with "a story about hate" (which was how they described TLOU2)? Ok. Fair. That game, while great, was divisive enough in terms of storyline/direction ...

I hope they go the ND way and end up making a kart racer for the series.
Did it for Crash with CTR, did if for Jak & Daxter with Combat Racing, why not Ellie, Abby and a clicker duking it out in karts

TLOU:P3 absolutely needs to happen, but I would also like a new IP.

What I would really like is a new Uncharted even if it’s not from ND.

I hope they move on after how terrible part 2 was. I know I don’t care to go back.

ND should be big enough to focus on multiple single player projects at the same time. I’m sure if they went to Sony and said: “Look, I want to continue TLOU or create another Uncharted while working on a new IP, but I need more manpower/resources,” Sony’s wallet would open wide. They’re too talented of a studio to not have creative minds lurking in the background waiting for a chance to shine. Then again, I can’t really complain because every game I’ve played of theirs is pretty damn good. I don’t want TLOU or Uncharted to be thrown to the side for too long. They’re way too popular/have immense potential for more installments in each.

@eagletrippin

'story that has this universal message and statement about love'

I see babies involved in this

I hope that's true, I want to see some new IPs from them

Good, after the mess of 2 just let it die

I think that a third game is pretty much inevitable. There is increased interest in the franchise because of the TV series, so a third game is pretty much nailed on. If ND follow their pattern, they will release the third game just before the end of the PS5 generation, meaning they can then remaster all 3 games for the PS6...!

What does interest me though, is the TV series. With it being such a success, I think there will be a second series, but do wonder whether it will a completely different story (therefore not following the events of the second game). There is (I think) a 5 year gap between the first and second games, meaning they can tell new stories in the TV series, without touching on the events of the second game. The final TV series could be the telling of the second, or third, game.

Certainly interesting times in the LoU universe

@Perryg92 Yeah, especially since the title for the ND kart racing games write themselves — “The Fast of Us” and “Unkarted”.

Also while I do believe they have some freedoms, they are still a business and ultimately Jim Ryan will tell them what to do.

I do find that statement about needing to have a “universal message and statement about love” to be interesting. First of all, spoiler warning! Second of all, I wonder if that means that the outcry against the last game based on the emptiness of revenge and violence has made them want to swing things back to something more globally appealing to the masses. I like a “Hollywood Happy Ending” as much as the next guy, but I was actually impressed with the subversion of expectations they did with TLoU2. “The power of love” is a well-traveled narrative trope, “the bitterness of revenge” is much more novel.

Edit: Also, the success of the HBO show is likely to affect things. Surely a season 2 will drop based on the second game and I’m sure there will be a demand for something after the events of TLoU2 from a TV storyline perspective. And I’d rather it be based on something canon and solid, as opposed to a TV only ending or a Game of Thrones situation where the show gets ahead of the source material.

They've got to do the Part 2 remake for PS5 ready for season 2 of the TV show and then Sony will push for another game for the pennies unless the multiplayer is a cash cow live service game.

Hilarious how some folks are saying Sony are forcing ND to churn out multiple games in some franchises when it's been clearly documented in the past that SIE never interfere in ND'S development. If that were really the case then part 2' s storyline would have followed the same structure of the first game instead of doing a " MGS2".
Also, interesting wording from Neil here, it's going to be almost 3 years since TLOU2, I personally think they have a new IP in the works which is great news

there will be a last of us part 3 with the tv show also being a hit. it sells big numbers for sony we will see a sequel

now whether naughty dog make it is another matter

Finally, they'll have some space to work on Jak & Daxter in UE5 Games could finally become fun to play again

Really curious to see what game they're making if it's not the last of us part 3. They have multiple teams now

I think that's a good thing. They should let Naughty Dog make something new insteading of focusing on making sequels of their popular games.

Unless it's Jak though, which I'm completely fine with lol

It’s already being made, for sure.

I'd love to see such a talented team create something new and experiment even with some smaller games

I'm interested either way. I'll pretty much always be there for a new Naughty Dog game. Go with whatever your team is passionate to make.

I would love to see Naughty Dog give Uncharted another run out instead of a Last of Us Part 3. I would also like to have seen Nathan Drake back as the lead, I just love the Uncharted games. If Naughty Dog are done with that, then I would love to see someone else give the series a bash. The dream set up would be for Amy Hennig to be back at Sony with her own team and make a 5th. I missed to whole supernatural twist in the 4th game, although having played Thief’s End a few times now, it is probably my second favourite game in the series. Back to LoU3, I do think it will happen, but it would be the last game in the series for sure, but 2 did have enough in it to be a good enough end to the franchise also.

@tofuman86 platformers are dead

This is sad. Not because of The Last of Us, I don't care one bit about that series (but I feel for the fans). But Uncharted is one of my favorites, just remembering the theme song already makes me want to play all the games again, and the universe they created has the possibility for many more games, with other characters. I hope they give the franchises, including The Last of Us, to other developers, so we can enjoy a little longer.

I hope they do move on from TLoU. The show is great but it feels like such a waste of a great studio to be stuck making TLoU games for 10 years and not working on anything new.

I absolutely adored part 2 for putting this brutal world first in the stories script meaning no characters including the main characters we adore ain't safe, they're not super hero humans, instead they're all very vulnerable just like me and you would be if put in that brutal world and thats why i adored part 2 for its reality in script putting the brutal world theyre in first. However I just feel that both Ellie and even Joel can't go out like that so part 3 for me has to happen at some point. At the end of part 2 Ellie almost felt like a villain with revenge completely consuming her head and Joel's ending as we all know was just pure sad, this is why part 3 has to happen. There's so many things they could do with Ellies progression in a Part 3 but with Joel there's gonna have to be one super long flashback in Ellies head that we get to play as Joel in a part of the game we had no idea ever happened just so we can have more Joel. There's no doubt in my mind ND want to do a brand new IP too and are most likely in early stages of doing so but TLoU can't go out like that, there are so many better endings to go out on than part 2 did

@Th3solution ahahahahahahahaha those two are both hilarious! Thanks for the laugh!

He’s already said the story is written previously on The Last of Us podcast?

So i’m not sure who he’s trying to fool.

Remake of the 2nd game and a remaster of the remade 1st game are next I believe.

The Last of Us is my favourite franchise of all-time. That being said, I hope they move on.

I wouldn't mind part III at some point after a new IP just as others here suggest.....but first lets get a PS5 version of part II out for $70......because I'll get it too.

Difference is Uncharted 4 closes off the series while tLoU:p2 sets up a third part.

@Jacko11 Just because the story is written doesn't necessarily mean a new single player game will come out of it. For example Factions 2 could be so successful that Part 3 is told via that instead (live service success can shift focus away from single player games) or it could end up being that Part 3 is exclusively for the TV show.

@nomither6 platformers are dead

On PS and Xbox i would mainly agree, on switch they are alive and well and sell big numbers.

Seems like too much to dream that ND could actually ever move on from the cash cow that has literally been the only thing they've done since the time period Assassin's Creed 2 launched, with the lone exception of Uncharted 4.

It's a little funny that the guy behind the highly divisive second installment is pegging a third installment around having a "universal story" though. I think the only way he could make that happen at this point is add zombie-joel as a lovable playable character

This is hopeful, for me, as someone not fond of TLOU, ND has basically not existed since PS3.

Though I'm sure so many people will be really looking forward to The Last of Us III: Racing.

@clvr I wish I could claim it but I better give credit to Chris Ray Gun from Sacred Symbols who came up with those names. 😂 Glad it gave you a laugh though.

@eagletrippin

But it doesn't end with hate does it, it ends with Abby and Ellie no longer wanting revenge

'Very strong ending' to the last game? Respectfully disagree. I hated the ending to The Last of Us Part II so much that it slightly tarnishes the first game for me and I have zero interest in the tv show or a Part III. If Naughty Dog moved onto a new IP, I'd be thrilled.

@nomither6 Platformers are far, far from dead. Even in PS there's Sackboy, Ratchet as an action-platformer, Astrobot that the literal demo for the PS5 itself, and of course the big 3rd parties like Sonic that sell pretty darned well despite struggling to find it's groove.

Just because ND wet the bed with Jak and couldn't figure out if they were making a collectathon, a beat em up, or a racer, doesn't mean the genre's dead. It doesn't sell 20 million but it also doesn't cost $150mil to make.

ND is a weird studio. In their whole lifetime they've had 4 series, and their sequels are 50/50 split between strengthening a series and destroying it.

Adore TLoU and I totally get the Abbey hate and some of the hate part 2 got in general but if you was expecting an unrealistic hero to jump out of the shadows like Batman or Wolverine to save Joel, then a game like the TLoU will never be for you. Good people die in all walks of life even more so in brutal post apocalyptic worlds and I'm super glad ND reflected these facts

hope they kick out druckman.
and have a happy game again.
no politics just fun. like the first 3 uncharted games with amy hennig as the writer again.

Whatever it is, it's probably not coming on PS5. ND seems to be the slowest PS Studio to develop new games. I get that they are the crown jewel of PS Studios and their games HAVE to be perfect. Still, I wish they would release games more often.

I hope they stop TLoU and go back to their best game, Uncharted

The ending of Part I was perfect. I just wish they would have left it at that and put all their efforts into Factions instead of Part II. They could have used factions to explore TLoU universe for years. I hope there will be no Part III and ND moves on to a new IP. 🤞🏼

@RenanKJ Since 2013, they’ve done 3 new games, 2 remasters, and a remake to be fair.

I'm guessing we won't see anything non-TLOU related from them until near the end of the generation.

@NEStalgia The Lost Legacy was practically a full Uncharted game as well, wasn't it?

Perhaps Neil will just use the story of part 3 for the show and the studio can just move onto a brand new ip.

@Bionic-Spencer Agreed. TLOU was grim enough to start with. The way things went with TLOU2, a third TLOU would be one grim and gritty game too far. A fifth Uncharted announced now would be a refreshing boost for ND and us punters. Though it would need a new, more vibrant team of writers to give us an entertaining story, not the same bunch that fell down the dark ditch of TLOU.

@Gamer83 Couldn't agree more.

Good, I prefer it when devs don't keep milking the same franchise until it starts to get stale such as Far Cry, Halo, Gears, Assassins Creed etc.

I think 2-3 games is enough and then move on to make new IP's and new Challenges.

@arsmolinarc I disagree. Uncharted five can do a "Taken". Have Drakes daughter kidnapped and held to ransom so he and the missus have to go on some heist/adventure to locate and retrieve the McGuffin in order to get her back.

Unless they tell a brand new story, with new characters in a new location, maybe in a different part of the world I’d rather TLoU be done. I have zero interest in playing as Ellie or Abby again. I won’t buy TLoU3 if it has anything to do with those two. I’d probably rent it though.

'He continues, pointing to Uncharted 4: A Thief's End as one of its most commercially successful releases, but that it was able to move on from the franchise and pursue its passions' the only games naughty dog released since then were uncharted lost legacy (great game but it's uncharted still) pc versions / ps5 remasters of uncharted 4 & lost legacy the last of us part 2 (no comment) & another version of the last of us ..
How is that moving on Neil 🤣

The sooner Naughty Dog moves on from this franchise the better. I've never had such a strong "Love / Hate" relationship with anything in my life. Both games are amazing masterpieces on the one hand, and absolutely miserable slogs on the other. I've seen some people refer to The Last of Us as "misery porn." I think that's a pretty accurate description. I genuinely question the mental well-being of someone who would actually WANT to make a game like that. I'm glad I played through them, but I have absolutely no desire to revisit those games or that world (which is why I skipped the remaster and have no interest in the multiplayer project). I miss the days when I used to get excited about new Naughty Dog games.

@The_ghostmen they wouldn't kick him out he got promoted after it came out naughty dog had a toxic workplace/crunch problem

I’d love a part 3. I’d like to see more of Abby and what she does next. Such a great character

@Ralizah That's a hard one to judge. Is it another game, or is it large DLC for the one mentioned game? Technically it's the latter, but there's room for argument to go either way on it, but it's also notable that none of the key staff were involved in it short of Scherr as the secondary writer.

FWIW I'd like to see more of that sort of thing, I was in Layden's camp of more smaller lower priced, shorter titles like that, but I also get that the sales of that weren't particularly good. A new retail ND game launches at tens of millions. Lost Legacy launched in the tens of thousands despite even having a retail release. It makes Returnal look like a blockbuster despite the Uncharted name.

@ChaseGP Yeah, that's exactly my problem with it. The "misery porn" angle. They went from the studio that made the terrible but colorful Crash mascot, to the studio that made the colorful and fun Jak, to the company that tried to make Jak dark and misery-porn but with cartoons. To then trying to make it a racing series. To then the bright and fun Indiana Jones style Uncharted, then into the deepest darkest hole in gaming, and then just stayed there. From Jak 2 to Uncharted 2 there's something uncomfortable about the world ND's writers inhabit sometimes.... It's well made....it's arty....but....it's not pleasant to experience. Though, just going by how much people love it and similar things, misery-consumption seems to be what the Western market throws the most money at. Is ND the problem or is the western world the problem?

I get the feeling they wanted to jump into something "arthouse", did TLOU and somehow it timed well with the Walking Dead fad and took off like a rocket, and then the money talked for the next decade (and counting?) But they also took it too far down the arthouse road and forgot it's supposed to be fun.

I'd love to see them (finally) move on to something else, and see what else they can do, but at the same time I've never been terribly fond of ND. Crash IMO was never a good platformer design, I loved and still absolutely love Jak 1, better Rare game than Rare was making, but then that went down the tank starting with 2. I do love the Uncharted series, but it's a guilty pleasure, I know it's not technically great, but it's just a fun adventure anyway. And then TLOU which is just....off my radar.

I'm surprised 3 isn't in production yet though. They did create a problem for sales with the series now. If they give 3 a true continuation half their audience that loves the misery will be all-in, but only half the audience. If they try to make it more uplifting and adventure-y that same misery consuming audience will boycott them as sellouts not committed to true arte.

@NEStalgia Length-wise, it seems to be pretty much on par with the PS3 entries. And the visuals are roughly on par with a mainline entry.

I know it originally launched as a Season Pass perk, but, like XC2's Torna expansion, it seems to be a deep and independent enough experience to count as its own game.

Pity to hear it didn't sell well. I wonder how much of that is Nathan Drake not being the main character...

Unpopular opinion: I did not enjoy TLOU and by a little over half way through the game, I just wanted it to be over and finished out of stubbornness rather than enjoyment. I found the Uncharted games more interesting but even those got a little longing the tooth in the last third of the games.

@Ralizah I doubt it had much to do with it not being Drake, I'd bet most polls would show Chloe as the fan favorite character of the series over Drake anyway. Who doesn't love Claudia?

I think more than anything, to me it signifies how much of video game sales come down to marketing hype and absolutely NOTHING else. I.E. if Balan Wonderworld had Cyberpunk marketing it would have been that year's #1 seller, and if GoWR had Gravity Rush level marketing it would have been a total failure. Total sales, especially launch sales I think are nothing but a measure of how successful and wide reaching the marketing campaign was, and has little to do with the actual game content or even the celebrity of the series brand. That you can deliver a mainline Uncharted game, and have it sell less than 10% of it's super highly rated parent game says it all. People didn't want to buy more Uncharted. They wanted to buy more hype participation. Uncharted 5 starring Chloe and the full hype campaign probably would have had a very different launch.

Which then depresses me for the future.

I'd rather them move on and make something new at this point.

@NEStalgia Drake is the character most associated with the franchise. I'd be willing to get there's a fair number of Drake-or-Bust-ers out there.

Anyway, games can sell well without significant marketing budgets. Some are highly advertised and still underperform. That's not too understate the importance of good marketing, but I don't see a world where the new God of War sells like Gravity Rush 2. It's just too mainstream.

@Ralizah If paying as Chloe killed lost legacy, tlou3 with Ellie/Abby from the start is going to fail harder than Halo 😂

Uncharted is mainstream as it gets, but lost legacy......

@Grumblevolcano the quotes in the article say that there is no story, as in its not even being considered or planned currently.

He has previously stated that the story is written or at least planned.

A direct contrast to the new quotes.

I understand you’re comment and agree somewhat but thats not the point i’m making.

I have mixed feelings. I absolutely adored part 1 which was a very nuanced, ambiguous story, but part 2 told a story which was so painful for me, I had to detach myself from the series after I beat it.

I think playing part 3 will bring all that back and I'm not sure if I can stomach it. The gameplay was amazing though. A spinoff with a whole different cast might work in the future.

@Th3solution I think the brilliance of The Last of Us though is in its deep exploration of what love is. You’re right, the “power of love” is a well trodden trope, but neither game makes this purely its focus. If anything, it seems much less concerned with the exploration of love’s power, and more with its cost.

@Anthony_Daniels https://www.vg247.com/the-last-of-us-part-2-hate
Sooo, 99.99% of the game was filled with rage, but, Thank God, Ellie & Abby held off from stabbing & drowning each other at the end of the game, so it was all about truce & peace, even though Druckmann himself said otherwise😂
People on the internet just need to debate every single syllable from others commenters' posts. Lol. The point was, it seems odd that that is how you would want to end a series such as this, with all of the rage and no real resolution for anyone playing the game...
That said, I'm with others, I'd prefer Naughty Dog to work on something else right now, they are too talented to get tunnel vision on only 1 or 2 IP's. Eventually I hope they could come back around to do a Part 3...the right way.

If the multiplayer is a hit like the tv show, I bet part 4 is in the making.

@Pikki I think the frustration is that the back to back uncharted games were all sequels every other year or so on the SAME console generation all within a few years with the exception of 4 that came AFTER tlou 1.

While TLOU has now been going on for THREE generations and counting for well over a decade now with only one Uncharted extension in between entires, and realistically. We haven't seen something new from ND since TLOU itself on PS3.

Sequels every other year on the same console used to be cool. Sequels for 3 generations with years and years between each is much less cool. It's same reason SSM decided to leave Norse GoW at 2 rather than 3 entries. Dragging that story out until 2028 or PS6 would just suck.

Continuing the series long term is fine, but only if they have other content in between rather than just that every decade.

@Th3solution "I was actually impressed with the subversion of expectations they did with TLoU2. “The power of love” is a well-traveled narrative trope, “the bitterness of revenge” is much more novel."

Personally, I disliked the lack of subtlety in Part 2. What made me like Part 1 was that they delivered it in such an ambiguous, nuanced way. For my senses, Part 2 was a lot more cut & dried and left little room for me to argue with myself on the rights and wrongs of whatever I saw. I perceived 'art' in part 1's delivery, but 'logic' in part 2's delivery, as it were.

So, I think a lot of it is down to the story telling methods and devices. I suspect I could enjoy any 'themes' they do, depending on how the message is delivered. Subtlety is beautifu, I love it when authors pull off that difficult art.

@eagletrippin

Not sure what your crying about to be honest. The Original point stands,neither Abby or Ellie's story conclude on a hateful note. That's just plain fact.
sorry if that upsets you

@Anthony_Daniels Yeah, there was no bad blood between them after the entire saga. Lol. Yeah, okay bud. And you quoted me in attempt to dispute whether or not it was "a story about hate". Clearly you think you know more than the director of the game lol. Do your research.🤫 Peace!

'universal message and statement about love'

Yes! More lesbians!

@Jimmer-jammer Well said, buddy. That’s a valid point.

@ApostateMage Or cats! Cats sell consoles!

@bkeswick I do agree with the sentiment that how a story is told is as important or more important than it’s content. I think it’s been said there are only 7 basic stories that can be told, so it’s all in the way it’s delivered and something that is nuanced, subtle, and makes you think is usually so much better than a ham-fisted exposition.

In some ways Part 2 was overt and straightforward, but I found some subtleties as well, especially when trying to decide who was the “good guy (or girl)” since there was a level of ethical grey to most of the characters’ motivations and their perceived justifications. In the end it was all about revenge, but were they justified in their acts of revenge… and who was ultimately at fault. I think there’s a lesson in perspective and point of reference and relative truth that can be gleaned, but obviously some players just automatically side with one character or another.

And when I say the story subverted expectations, I think there was just so many plot points and narrative parts that went in directions we weren’t expecting. Obviously the “golf club” scene was the big one, and unfortunately I had a hint of it coming from internet spoilage, but was still rather taken aback at how it unfolded. Several other side events were also curve balls thrown in the face of typical video game expectations.

@eagletrippin

Yeah so the game ends with Abby full of hate and Elle full of hate in your world. Maybe replay and open your eyes next time lmao
Good day sir

i'm so over tlou franchise. i recently completed part 2 and found it to be just OK. the gameplay was great (although a bit repetitive) but the story/writing was very uneven and did not live up to the original in many ways. also, after you brutally murder hundreds of souless enemies in the span of 25+ hours, it begs the question: how many more times do i want to do this? it was an exhuasting experience. is there a worthy narrative left to tell at this point? i would guess not. ND has already spent 10+ years on the franchise... it is time to move on to a new IP before things get any more stale. spending all that manpower and resources on yet another sequel would be too predictable and a waste of their potential as a studio.

I think the series deserves a part 3, personally. But who knows.

@Anthony_Daniels yeah ok sure thing thanks TONY!

Uncharted I didn't mind (and fewer cinematics games they were pushing back then so I didn't mind nor do I just a simple adventure story action adventure third person shooter) but Last of Us wasn't for me in story especially I was uninterested for the first hour, I haven't played many survival horror games but I didn't care for the controls at all, Clicker are cool......

All for devs getting to make something different and coming up with new ideas and stories and direction. A trilogy and move on is what I want to see Sony studios keep doing not drag out IP too long, if they get sick of it and want to do something new, we player do too unless Sony expects them to last then well that's a problem then by that point is milking an IP and keeping them alive when we get sick of them early or do after it's too long running and out of ideas/didn't need to go on that long.

That and I don't care for more cinematic games they can turn into TV shows I just don't care. If they have something interesting going this time at Naughty Dog by all means.

If not a hard pass as usual and further turning away from the brand to my PlayStation 4 onwards being a third party machine like my Xbox One already is.

Sony studios just haven't made me care for their brand since 2016/2017 (exceptions are Gravity Rush 2 but even then I haven't played it much, Knack 1 & 2 I beat while Gravity Rush 1 I binged).

@Loamy Lol part 2 bombed considering the first game is one best selling ps3/4 game, it only sells 10M after the game often discounted to $20, they get 4.5M preorder/early sales from gamers that didn't know the game sucked though (like me).

And every trailer after the game launched are dislike to oblivion on youtube, it's so bad that nd cancel abby dlc plan 😂

Edit: Why the heck my comment are deleted by the mods, why have comment section at all if we're not allowed to dislike the games 😕

Needs a main game! Plus, the tv series has renewed interest...!

I wish they'd have left it alone after the first but with the TV show being a hit I imagine ND will be making a third and probably a fourth and fifth and a spin off about Ishmael.

I would of preferred a Joel trilogy. Maybe if you do a redo delete the 2nd game , ellie gets abducted and Joel takes out the bad guys. Just like any action movie I grew up with. Dont fix it if its no broke lol , dont waste your time on factions isn't that like any random multi player since capture the flag. I just play through the first last of us 1 these days. The 2nd game gathers dust on the shelf.

@R_Ryder I knew Sony wouldn't kill off an iconic series like Hot Shots Golf!!!

@theMEGAniggle
“ I see babies involved in this”
TLOU is Death Stranding prequel confirmed

@stvevan I was thinking the exact same thing, that would just be leaving money on the table and I can't see Sony doing that

@Enigk yeah, I didn't think of that

Druckman also said the HBO series won’t overtake the game in story. This implies there will be a part 2.

Part 2 proved that there should have only been one game to begin with.

Yes, for the love of god. They haven't had an original idea since the PS3 days, essentially taking away one of playstation's biggest strengths in the process: fresh & exciting new IP's every gen. We need a shake up, it's really boring at the moment.

@tatsumi The Last of Stranding shared universe confirmed

Kojima is a genius

Rather see a new IP. Sounds like Naughty Dog doesn't know what they want to do.

Seriously, why is every news outlet talking about this, like its news

Of course he's going to say all this, otherwise when they announce anything it won't be a surprise.

Uncharted was done at 4. He ended it.
And of course he's going to say maybe a part 3 will come if the story is right, he said this after the last of us.
But again he isn't going to announce whatever the new game will be because that isn't good marketing.

Its 100% basic media training talk. All in all part 3 is coming.

@Loamy I remember cod infinity warfare sold sells compared to previous cod, and the next cod is on ww2 setting and sells way more than cod iw. But yeah, let's agree to disagree, the only way to know if the ip is still good is if nd make tlou3 so we can compare it sales.

@Porco
Do a stealth run, you can play entire game killing like 20 enemies.

I'm not sure about The Last of Us after Part 2. I'm just not sure I'm going to like the series as much going forward. For me part 1 is the best and unbeatable so there's no point continuing. It seems to be a game that hits it's limit after so many and then we all move on.

But Uncharted is something that can be rebooted and started over from scratch with a new story. If ND is done with Uncharted then Sony should set up an Uncharted studio that could continue the work. They could get that studio to continue with TLOU too but I see Uncharted living on longer and should be the main game.

@Th3solution Your reply made me think. I think my problem with Part 2 is that I instinctively think 'revenge' is bad, so it seemed black & white to me. I probably feel the difference because Part 1 was more about killing in order to protect oneself/somebody, rather than a premeditated revenge.

I realize that I'm a lot more ambiguous about self defence. That might be at the heart of the difference I perceive.

@bkeswick I understand. You have a point there — at its core message, the “revenge is bad” theme of Part 2 is fairly fundamental, so I see what you’re saying. Both Ellie and Abby were “bad” in that sense.

I feel the same about “the power of love” being a potential theme, since it just seems like a basic core truth of being human, so I’m not sure it’s an interesting thing to explore. But hopefully Naughty Dog will deliver the message in a way that is interesting! 😄

@Th3solution For somebody like me and my mindset, Part 2 needed a twist. Like, something believable happens and becomes a happy ending - I'd be like, Wow revenge works, I didn't expect that!

Or an unreasonable twist. A UFO lands and Ellie's dad walks out and says Ellie, we are immune to a human disease.

Or I needed Ellie and Abby to transform through hardship into people I want to care for and follow in the steps of. I tend to be particularly susceptible to that type of flow because what happens to them suddenly becomes my business.

Or the route Part 1 took, which to me feels like a very artsy, ambiguous tale which makes me argue with myself forever as to whether I would have done the same. You know, unanswerable questions type thing. Even to this day I argue with myself on whether Part 1 was a happy or unhappy ending for me personally. (Good job devs for doing that to me.)

So there are a number of ways to hook somebody with my perception. The more I think about it, the more I think that "themes" are almost secondary to me. I don't know. It just feels like that when I introspect.

@bkeswick Hey, that’s awesome that you think of games that way and I’m the same. I’m a sucker for a lot of basic story premises but I enjoy it when a game has me thinking about its message or meaning for days, weeks, and even months.

As for Part 2, I do think that the ending has a sort of open ended and resolution to it that was meaningful. That whole last section where Ellie leaves Dina and the baby to pursue the revenge and yet ends up choosing to spare Abby, only to find out she learned her lesson too late and she’s lost everything. But I think that the fact Ellie spared Abby means that she’s grown and so therefore, it’s a happy ending, kind of. In a weird sort of way. Both Ellie and Abby showed growth and transformation through their trials. A lot of people wanted Ellie to kill Abby, but I like seeing the redemption of Ellie’s (and Abby’s) priorities and like to think she’ll use what she learned to be a better person.
But I guess we’ll have to find out in Part 3! 😄

@Th3solution Now that you point that out, I realize that you are technically correct about that. So I think to myself - why on earth didn't I feel like that at the end of Part 2? What's causing the gap between that technicality and my experience.

I think it's because most of the time is spent in the discourse. A little bit at the end doesn't overturn the vast majority of the experience. Then the realization dawned on me that I don't so much "think" the story, but rather "feel" the story in order for me to enjoy it. So technicality can't overcome my problem.

So, I ask myself, how should they change it for somebody like me? I should at least suggest a solution.

I think if they had kept that discourse in the first half to two-thirds, then spent the rest of time with the likeable versions of them, I probably would've managed to internalize their journey by the end of it. It might even strengthen the core message for me becuase there's the Before & After contrast.

That way, the "thinking the story" side of me would've still said revenge is obviously bad and the game isn't telling me anything new, and yet, the "feeling the story" side of me would've been wholesome so I would've likely enjoyed it.

The freaking amazing gameplay and tech they used was enough to keep me in it though, so it's all academic. But in any case, once again my thought process has lead me to the notion that the 'theme' isn't what's causing problems for me.

@bkeswick I follow you and you’re onto something that I heard other people complain about. The whole last section was off-putting for some because of the tonal shift. It’s almost like the game could have ended at the part where Ellie and Dina and the baby are all living happily ever after, Ellie has moved on and Abby spared Ellie and Dina (at the Lev’s insistence) prior and so the game could have ended there full circle and Ellie lives out her days on the farm. But to me it was more impactful the way we got it. Losing her partner, her baby, and her fingers. A true Greek tragedy type of tale
But I totally get your meaning. The first 30 hours of the game is this torturous futile revenge adventure. So “feeling the story” and being able to root for the heroines is hard to do and drown in all this pitiful anger, hate, and sacrifice for no gain. So the fact any true character arc of redemption gets lost in the shuffle is surely something open to criticism.
But the “before and after” contrast you mention where you can feel for them and enjoy a likable version of them might be just what Part 3 is going to be. We spent the whole game in the dregs of human suffering and made a character change at the bitter end and so going forward we might have some more virtuous conflict to engage in next. 😄 Or maybe that UFO will show up with Ellie’s biological father. I dare Naughty Dog to do it 😂

@Th3solution Hehe I hope they make the most of it. All that dreariness of Part 2 wouldn't be in vein then. I just need them both to be normal really, they don't need to be angelic. And no, I don't seriously need Ellie to be an alien 😂