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Shawn Layden served as chairman of Sony Interactive Entertainment World Studios, now known as PlayStation Studios, for years and was hugely influential in shaping the current PlayStation landscape. He's also a digital soothsayer of sorts who foresaw the industry's dark future with remarkable clarity. He tried to warn us of the rising cost of AAA games and the dangers of consolidation, topics that have only become more prescient with the passing of time.
Layden's latest bugbear is video game preservation, a topic he spoke to recently on the Lan Parties podcast (thanks, Kotaku), and said:
"Preservation is important. I’m hoping that more people in the industry, certainly the big players, begin to realize that there’s an obligation and responsibility. This isn’t throw-away stuff we’re making. This is stuff that should be around for a long time because future generations will enjoy it in the same way that we have, and it’s criminal that we’re not doing more to protect it.”
Video game preservation will only become a bigger issue moving forward, as AAA releases like Alan Wake 2 (out today, we loved it) opt to ditch physical releases and only launch digitally instead. It's great to hear industry voices calling attention to the issue, but we'd need the powers that be at PlayStation to listen to arrest the situation meaningfully. Sony's Preservation team ended up being smaller in scope than some expected, but perhaps Layden's words will move the needle; stranger things have happened.
[source kotaku.com, via videogameschronicle.com]
Comments 85
Ironically Sony are probably the worst for it.
Xbox is pretty much fully backwards compatible with all previous Xbox games (I know there are some exceptions)
Nintendo offers most of their big hitting classics through the NSO online expansion
Sony in comparison give us virtually nothing, PS plus premium has been going for more or less 2 years now and we're still waiting for most of the "Classic" games to make an appearance
Would it really have been that difficult to make PS1 & PS2 discs work on the PS5 from the start?
I always liked Shawn Layden. Had a lot of respect for him.
@Member_the_game Disagree. PS5 works fully without the internet and you can play pretty much all single player games never connected to it. Xbox Series requires internet at first time setup and majority of games require internet on first install from disc. So that's why PS5 is way better in preservation than Xbox Series consoles.
@Lukasamba Actually we’re seeing an increasing number of games that do require a download even if they are single-player, such as Hogwarts Legacy and Jedi Survivor, some developers choose to put a fully playable version on disc such as all PS Studios and Square Enix for FFVII Rebirth but that merit goes to the each developer who chooses to do it, not the console per se.
While Xbox is certainly not perfect with online DRM their work on backwards compatibility for hundreds of 360 and OG titles shouldn’t be under appreciated and in fact we should keep pushing Sony to do the same thing, I still can’t believe there isn’t a single way to play all the old God of War games on modern consoles, and that’s the case for tons of games.
@Lukasamba
My post was more of a complaint about getting access to playing older PS1 and PS2 games without original hardware.
I appreciate what you're saying though, in 25 years or so the games of today will be in the same situation.
Especially as most modern games require some sort of update or patch to work properly.
Once the servers are shut down alot of the games we play today will become useless unless they're already installed and upto date.
Just imagine how PlayStation would be if they let Shawn Layden stayed to lead this generation instead of Jim Ryan…
pc is the best at backwards compatibility and its not even close
He gets it stop making stuff server dependant simples.
I doubt that improving game preservation is the general route of the business right now. On the one hand I see physical releases like HFW Complete Edition with all updates and DLCs, perfectly playable in the future without any online service. On the other hand there will be „adorably all-digital“ console platforms, the biggest threat for game preservation. I‘m still optimistic, though!
@Member_the_game Its more then just exceptions but the actually the majority of Xbox/360 that can't be played on Series consoles and its even less if you have a Series S.
people til this day say that the original ps3 is "tHe wORst pS eVEr durrr" so i dont blame sony for disregarding ever making such a grand multi-generational console again. it was very under-appreciated and costed sony big sunken costs & illegitimate criticism so well never get a console like that again. ill never get over having a console that could play 3 generations + retro games
@IOI Fair point. But that's not Sony or Xbox problem, that way game is not preserved properly on neither console due to developers choices.
@Member_the_game Well looking at popular single player games through doesitplay website it seems most PS5 games are playble from start to finish purely from the disc build. Yes some games has bugs/crashes, but they are playable. And they are preserved for the future.
Removed - excessive emoticons
@nomither6 Who says that about the PS3? The only criticism I hear is that it was complicated to program for - which it is. That's not a lie.
@DennisReynolds
You're probably right, the last time I looked into it properly it was probably about 20 - 25% of the 360 discs will work on a Series X (I don't know about the original Xbox)
Regardless of the exact numbers though it's still an awful lot better than what Playstation currently offers us in terms of backwards compatibility would you not agree??
This guy must not be aware of the existence of PCs. You can play 99% of all games ever made on there.
@nomither6 The PS3 is the worst PS console because it was a nightmare to make games for and its why most 3rd party games have issues on it or look worse then 360 versions.
@Member_the_game Oh i agree but i can't help but wish MS got more running on them.
It’s amazing how things have changed and how preservation is such a thing.
Back in the day you got the new generation console with a new generation of games and if you wanted to play the old games you kept the old console. Of course until it broke which I guess is the issue really, having the device to still play your old games collection on.
It’s simple if the games industry really want to preserve the old games then they have to have their new console play the old games if not then they won’t get preserved and replayed.
Sony could easily enhance PS4 titles on system basis but won't do it for some reason. I have heard there is probability of PS3 backward compatibility on PS5 PRO.
@Lukasamba @Member_the_game @IOI DoesItPlay recently released the specific numbers on how many ps4/5 games work from the disc.
14% of games specifically on ps4/5 don’t work at all without an update or online connection because they’re either not fully on disc, broken without updates or always online.
16% of games work without an update straight from the disc but have updates add more content. Games like minecraft, no man’s sky, ghostwire tokyo and stardew valley.
70% of games are fully playable without updates straight from the disc and have their updates fix minor issues like stability, minor bugs or don’t have updates at all.
Also keep in mind minor bugs have always been a thing in every console generation, but they only became fixable with updates during the 7th generation.
@DennisReynolds oh , didn’t know you were a developer for you to be so bothered by it . Hard to develop for or not, i don’t care , it still got the games i wanted and wasn’t relegated to being a first party only machine like nintendo. As for games looking worse - i disagree , just up the saturation and sharpness on your tv, problem solved. the ps3 was a very powerful machine that was under-utilized .
the criticisms the ps3 gets are so weak, the ps5 is much worse .
@nomither6 Y'know, you should have just started with ''I don't care about your opinion'' and be done with it. It would have saved a lot of time.
@darkswabber That's what i'm saying.
@DNortonX I don't understand why are your laughing. Once Xbox Series consoles becomes old enough, all their games becomes unavailable to purchase through their store and servers shuts off. Then basically these games will be dead. Nothing preserved. On Playstation in this case you will be able to play the disc build, because it doesn't require internet. So yeah, playstation is better at preserving games.
Give Layden a large cheque and get him back as head of Playstation. Someone who actually gave a toss about the console and its heritage would be a refreshing change from Mr Accountant.
As for the ongoing rage against the PS3, that console gave us the most original line up of innovative and engaging titles of any PS console, from LBP to Uncharted, much as I loved the PS4 era. Certainly better than the rehashed, 'oooh, isn't it shinier' PS5 ongoing farce.
Haven’t bothered with Alan wake 2 or baldur gate for this very reason!
@sanderson72 Nah. The "most innovative and original line up award" goes to PS2. Fallout 3 and NV, MGS 2 and 3, GT 3 and 4, the GTA trilogy, the Timesplitters trilogy, the Hitman trilogy, Final Fantasy X.
Come on now. I'm willing to defend PS3 but let's not push it.
@nomither6 Don't need to be a Dev when its common knowledge the PS3 was a pain in the ass.
@Lukasamba yeah tagged you to expand on your point. 🙂
Yeah, I agree with him. I'm team disc version.
I don't need subscriptions on every system, I don't need PS Plus Premium and I don't need XBox Gamepass Ultimate.
Suscriptions destroy the whole market, we're seeing what it does with movie streaming services. And with games, it will be no different.
Big companies are just interested in big money and quality starts to reduce.
@nomither6 Yeah the sharpness and saturation will be sure to help presentation and performance once your PS3 games start stuttering and chugging.
Oh what's that? Screen tearing? Let me just adjust my TV brightness.
Lmao
@nomither6 Might have been a powerful machine, but no good when it was an absolute nightmare to code for etc, that was common knowledge back then and there were a fair few cross platform titles that suffered because of this. I do agree that it's strengths were underutilized and it was mostly a few late gen 1st party games that really took advantage of it because they knew how to get the most out of it by then.
@Member_the_game I think it's questionable who is actually doing the best with regards to this. Microsoft and Nintendo have brought a higher proportion of their older games to current systems though Microsoft gave up proceeding further in 2021 and Nintendo did a few limited time releases in 2020.
While Sony's no doubt doing the worst in that regard, they're the only one that's keeping their older stores alive. It did take backlash in 2021 for that to happen but the PS3 and Vita stores are still around for the foreseeable future meanwhile 3DS and Wii U shutdown in March 2023 and 360 is shutting down in July 2024.
So I'd say all 3 have gigantic room for improvement in regards to game preservation.
There is nothing to say that Digital won't 'preserve' games in the future. Discs these days are just a delivery mechanism to get the 'software' to the Customer so they can install it on their hardware to play - no different from the internet.
However, Discs also need to be manufactured and distributed, as well as contain the 'earliest' version of the code - often requiring Day 1 patches and/or internet connection to install the rest of the game as its too big to be all on disc.
So what are you 'preserving' these days? half a game? the broken -pre-day 1 experience? Something that is 'unplayable' and certainly not the game it will end up becoming once Devs have patched and added extra content/modes/features etc 'post release'.
There are many games over the past few years I've bought on Disc - yet I wouldn't want to play what's on the Disc today. Perhaps one of the best examples is Cyberpunk 2077 - the game on disc was AWFUL, even the day 1 patches wouldn't help and its a completely different game to the version on Digital stores today...
Licences too 'expire'. If EVERY game was Preserved, Spider-Man would soon be playable on Xbox for certain - albeit the ABK Spider-Man games that 'could' be remade/remastered. However, licences - whether music, brands (like Ford, Mercedes etc in car games) or IP's are often licenced for the 'life' of Specific Hardware - like PS3 or Xbox 360 or for a Duration (like 5-10yrs) because they don't expect you to 'keep' playing those 'OLD' games on new Hardware when 'newer' games exist in the same genre/IP and/or not willing to pay for Licences when Sales won't cover the costs.
Not 'every' game deserves to be preserved in my opinion. Should every version of Fifa ever released be preserved? What about shovelware games for trophy score? What about awful games like Life of Black Tiger?
I have no issue with certain games being preserved - especially those that had a major impact in the world of Gaming. Pac Man for example had a big impact but not 'every' version or copycat clone that came out deserves to be 'preserved' in my opinion...
Look at nintendo
Just bought a brand new, new nintendo 2ds xl since I'm in the mood for retro games, it's criminal that so many games lost due to nintendo shutting down the 3ds eshop. In the end I have to homebrew my 3ds so I can play most of the games that I can't find on cart.
Searching for a new physical 3ds cart is a bit hard but rewarding experience though, found new mario bros 2, metroid samus return, animal crossing new leaf, pokemon ultra sun, theatrhythm final fantasy curtain call and bravely default 😃
@Member_the_game The Nintendo part I disagree with… Recently bought a Xbox Series X to play Twilight Princess, Windwaker, Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask (the last two are on NSO but I would have bought them, I don’t want to subscribe to the high tier just for two games)… And to be honest I loved to see all the other games I already had access too when I plugged it because of my part purchase on older generation.
@Lukasamba When I got the PS5 there was the PS Plus Collection (but then again i loose it if I unsuscribe) that was nice but I had to start from scratch collecting games because I skipped the PS4 even though I had all other PS consoles. Since then I’ve been able to get Twisted Metal 2 for free when Sony added it to the subscription service… But there’s so many other games I’m reluctant on re-buying just to be able to play them on my current PS… This is a big contrast with Xbox
@sanderson72 Nah the innovation was with the original psx, wipeout, ico, destruction derby, ff7, parasite eve, etc etc.
Won't say Sony's track record was perfect when he was part of Worldwide Studios,with short lived ventures like the "ps2 classics on ps4" venture. (In his defence probably wasn't his department), but you can't help but feel with Crash Bandicoot making a surprise comeback on the back of his Uncharted cameo, Shadow of the Collossus remake & even Medievil, you can't help but wonder if we'd seen LBP/LBP 2 ports,or God of War 1 & 2, Sly Cooper/Ratchet/Jak series might’ve seen light of day by now, vs TLOU PS5 by now if he had been still around.
Shawn would be a popular figure to return to PS towers,but whether he'd want to is another matter. Executives rarely return to their old haunts (unless you were Steve Jobs),& probably a fair turnover of staff from when he was there last.
Unfortunately current management can't seem to be bothered beyond a trickle of mostly obscure PSP & ps1 games for classic content!😑
@LifeGirl @Smiffy01 Good cases for the original and PS2. Fallout 3 and NV were PS3 titles though, LifeGirl!
I think a case of best could be made for any Playstation console - apart from the 5...
Buy a cheap series s and preserve as much ps1 and ps2 classics as you like.
Provided you own the original media and are making a legitimate backup for preservation purposes ....ahem.
As far as game preservation there doesn't seem to be much effort put into it despite a whole division supposedly being formed for it. I'm assuming companies don't pull a Sega or Konami and delete source code because of corporate espionage anymore lol. Not to mention that if you are a dinosaur like me and still own a Vita or PS3 there's always the possibility that your games are just gonna stop working at anytime and there's apparently nothing that can be done about it.
And PS Plus being more expensive seems to solely be just because things are more expensive now. Which is just great PR. I honestly don't see any reason to get premium when so little is offered. I just want to upload my saves and play online sometimes. Is that worth $80 a year? Apparently it is now smh.
@sanderson72 You are right, they were PS3 lol. I still stand by what I said though.
@Member_the_game your not wrong there
@BAMozzy Doesitplay posted on X that about 70% games from the disc build on playstation are fully playable with possible minor bugs, so no half-games there as you say. I don't get your point, how game being preserved is worse than being not? And i fully disagree with your statement that not every game needs to be preserved, it doesn't meter if the game is very bad. There has to be a way to access that 'bad game' in the future when a digital version is not available anymore if anyone wants to.
@Geep
Already addressed that in another post further down
I miss shawn layden and jack tretton.word up son
@Maddie47
Yeah already mentioned that, may I refer you to comment 15 on this page save me explaining it again 😂
I'm interested to see what happens in 24 when the major Sony Drought kicks in. It doesn't look like any major exclusives are coming (no the TLoU2 remake doesn't count) and there's been a rumor of a PS2 emulator being developed. It's not like Sony is going to put the Emotion engine chip on a USB stick and sell it to us, but a downloadable emulator or somesuch would be a nice addition. I'd even pay for it if there was a possibility of getting PS1, PS2 and PS3 emulators on the PS5. Especially if that meant access to the libraries and the disc's being usable. They have all the data. It's just a matter of executing the idea with a profit in mind. Xbox One developed the Back Compat program out of sheer desperation in year 2 when it was so far behind Playstation. Desperation inspires innovation. And companies rarely do anything without proper motivation. A year of no exclusives and Xbox making up significant ground in the market should do the trick.
@Constable_What sounds like a tv issue if you had screen tearing . unless someone was still playing ps3 on a fat-back tube TV , there was no screen tearing . just frame drops , & the xbox360 had its fair share of frame drops because it was the early HD era
@Xbox_Dashboard Wolverine seems likely to be 2024 judging by the way Sony have announced things in the PS5 era. September 2024 would be 3 years since the initial reveal meanwhile the gaps between initial reveal and release have been on the shorter side (e.g. 1.5 - 2 years for Spider-Man 2, GoW Ragnarok, HFW and GT7).
So my guess would be gameplay reveal either at Game Awards 2023 or Playstation Showcase 2024 and release in Fall/Holiday 2024.
The only genuine preservation of games as an art form is done by pirates. Honestly, you can barely consider them pirates. In times past, artworks would have been part of the "public domain" way sooner than they are now. But companies get to change the laws for their own benefit, because that's how it goes.
At the end of the day, "preservation" of games by companies themselves will inherently only be done to be able to illegitimately re-sell them to you over and over for eternity.
I'm fine with capitalism. You invest the money into a project, hopefully you make a profit. But it shouldn't extend forever, or you go back to feudalism.
I'm less concerned with it really, looking at games as a more transient experience - you can't hold on to everything. Of course, it'd be nice if the industry made a larger collective effort, and I enjoy being able to play older games when I have the means.
Just pray that streaming remains undesirable to the public, if that ever takes off preservation will pretty much be off the table.
There won't be any data to emulate, and even single player games will likely get shut down when they reach a low player count.
@wiiware yes, Nintendo have handled online the worst I think, with their (far too soon imo) shop closures. I know Sony were planning it for PS3, but they actually listened to people for once.
You can still redownload stuff you bought before from Nintendo,but even that has an ominous 'foreseeable future' hanging over it.
Sony still has the PS3 store running and the Vita store at some capacity, whereas Nintendo have already shut down their 3DS and WiiU stores. They would rather charge full price for basic ports then do full backwards compatibility, which I hope they change for the Switch 2.
Just imagine if he’d ever gotten to the highest office in Sony. I’m sure he would have made a concerted effort.
This man deserves to be heading PlayStation, hope he is an option for the job once Service Games Ryan is out. I would love a preservationist effort to at minimum port all first party PS3 titles to PC and/or PS5. Relying on streaming under some subscription service, or having an old console that does not break, is not the way to do handle this.
I've always liked Layden, and he's usually spot on. But the idea he is some sort of prescient seer is completely false. He talked about all these things - price of games, consolidation, preservation - AS they are happening, not years before.
What we need is politicians (I know right?) to pass a law that if a game is not able to be sourced from from a marketplace then emulation regardless of ownership, is legal for that software title.
It will either open the door to emulation or force companies hands to do something about it for our benefit.
God I miss him sooooo much. It's depressing where Playstation is going over the next 10 years after he built such a great foundation.
another thing that’s weird is how people bring up the ps3 having worse performance or whatever with multiplats , when it was virtually always like that with playstation
the 64 had better multiplats
the ps2 had THE worst multiplats, even worse than gamecube
it wasn’t until the ps4 that changed
@InsaneWade Actually all PS3 discs are Blu-ray (can't think of one that isn't?) so in theory the PS4 and 5 can read them - they just don't know what to do with them.
The only ones that don't work are the PS1 and very early PS2 titles which were on black disc CDs.
PS4 and PS5 can both read DVDs so the later PS2 titles on shiny discs would be fine but again neither console knows what to do with the contents.
@Xbox_Dashboard Wish i had spoke to you before buying a ps5, to know with such certainty that there will be no exclusives for my consile of choice in 2024 is truly soul destroying stuff ! Do you think a few wee indie "rogue lites" will tide us over until the AAA tsunami of 2025 graces us, do tell. Also can i have tomorrows lottery numbers please.
Not sure if this has been said BUT...
Why do we always assume we are the ones who will get to do the actual preserving?
Maybe they need to develop a repository like a Library of Congress for video games. In this collection would be a copy of every game and game console that has ever been. Physical, digital, PC, Arcade, Mobile, source code, everything. You could hire archivists to take care of cataloging. This would go beyond licenses, manufacturers, or publishers and just be strictly preserved.
Details would need to be developed so the general public can still access this vast collection but at least it will all be archived and relatively safe.
@Member_the_game bc on xbox requires an internet connection with out that you can’t play those games. And a lot of games were never added and they stopped adding games.
@nomither6 ahahahahahahaha
No.
@Constable_What never had screen tearing with the ps3 , that complaint is arbitrary. & i still believe it can be fixed through settings via the tv or the consoles many settings . and like i said , playstation has always had the worst versions of multiplats until the ps4.
the ps3 was the best playstation that’s hated for ridiculous reasons , it’s a shame it’s still “cool” to hate on it in 2023 , when like i said , the ps5 is the most mediocre playstation ever released with no justifiable reason for its price either
@nomither6 Screen tearing, an arbitrary complaint? I don't think that's the word you want to use. You can't arbitrarily add screen tearing and saying that complaint is arbitrary is like saying that when someone says its hot out that that is an arbitrary complaint, and it did have screen tearing. You just didn't notice it, probably because your TV settings are so overly saturated it is akin to looking directlt at the sun, I would not be able to see anything either, but blinding yourself is NOT a solution. You can pop in a game like Fallout NV and see it clear as day. You can believe that TV settings will fix hardware issues all you want, but it's just not how that works. Just like you can't turn up the sharpness on your screen to smooth out a lack of anti-aliasing, you can't fix screen tearing that occurs due to hardware.
And just because the PS2 and PS3 always had bad multiplats doesn't mean it's automatically invalid to criticize that fact. That doesn't help your argument and there's no logic to it either. What? Just because something has always been bad doesn't mean you just have to accept that it's bad...especially if you're paying 600 bucks for console, like PS3 at launch, which is around 750 dollars now.
And yes...if you go through the hardware in the PS5 it does justify its cost. Objectively. The PS5 GPU alone is a great value card. A raytracing capable card in 500 dollar console? That's pretty good. Not to mention the M.2 SSD which is still a high end piece of hardware.
It isn't "cool" to bash PS3. It did have a lot of faults, and people still remember them. Sony was barely able to make up for that with their amazing first party games, but third parties could not work efficiently with the CELL architecture, while also developing their games for other platforms that they were much more used to. If you're going to use obscure proprietary tech, you need to offer support to your partners so they can make use of it. Sony didn't, and guess what? They do now.
@Constable_What i’m currently playing my ps3 through my PC monitor and i don’t see any screen tearing dude, just stutters and frame drops which was normal for consoles at that time.
and i brought up the ps2 having garbage multiplats (the ps1 did too) because i hate how you guys only single out the ps3 with that flaw as if it wasn’t basically a playstation tradition to have weaker versions of games.
& i disagree about the ps5 being worth $500 , it’s a cheap weak PC that does the bare minimum of modern quality standards , with no features. The ps3 was a multimedia all in one device; the ps5 does nothing but play games - some people are ok with that , and don’t care about having a barebones console but some do and it’s still a valid criticism especially compared to its predecessors
and don’t even get me started on it’s awful library and first party support; the ps5 is bad.
also , as someone who had a pro before trading it in for the ps5 , i wasn’t impressed by its handful of advancements
I really wish I could play my PS3 games on the PS4. I bought so many games digitally, but it's all gone now. I still got a few physical games too.
@nomither6 I played enough PS3 games, and recently too, to know that there is screen tearing present. It's not an arbitrary complaint, it's really annoying, it's fine if you don't notice it, but don't act like it doesn't exist. That's just a lie.
That's a bad tradition to keep. Also the PS3 on paper, was much more powerful than the Xbox 360, there was no technical reason other than their insistence on using CELL architecture, and their lack of support for third parties.
You can disagree all you want. Any objective analysis of the hardware contradicts your feelings on the PS5. If you buy a game console, it should play games, and play them well, and the PS5 does that and comparably and even in some edge cases, better, than the competition as well. The PS5 is missing some multimedia functionality yes, but it also has some other features like being able to easily share your gameplay, capture media, upload that media to your phone PS app, it can start up games in a flash thanks to the SSD, and can still stream movies and play BluRays, and can even stream games now. Saying it has less features than a PS3 is disingenuous, and there is a reason they don't let you use your console as a multimedia station. It makes the software easy to exploit.
Awful library and first party support? Compared to who? Xbox? Nintendo? Maybe Nintendo I'll give you that, but Xbox? So far a at leasr a new first party release has come out a year since the release of the PS5, many with impeccable quality.
I had a PS4 Pro as well. The PS5 performs so much better, especially the front end dashboard. It doesn't take close to a minute to check your messages in game on PS5, it doesn't take upwards of a minute to load a game, the PS5 isn't NEARLY as loud as the PS4 Pro... I guess if you're not impressed you're not impressed, that's fine.
Don't act like the performance, features, or enhancements are on par with PS4 Pro. They are not. That's a straight demonstrable lie if you are doing that.
@Constable_What has nothing to do with the competition, im comparing the ps3 to other playstations. the library of the ps5 compared to the library of the ps3 is a blowout, because the ps3 stomps the ps5 in that category with third party and first party games.
im not saying the ps5 isnt an upgrade to the pro, in fact, i thought i pretty much already made that known that i wasnt - im just not impressed because its just load times and higher resolution people are gushing over, what else? the games are mediocre (imo) & i havent been wowed by a new console since the ps3. the jump to ps3 and seventh generation was "arguably" the biggest evolution in gaming, there has been painfully diminishing returns ever since.
"Saying it has less features than a PS3 is disingenuous"
its not, the ps3 just spoiled me and i wanted more & better as time went on, but instead they started stripping away things.
''they don't let you use your console as a multimedia station. It makes the software easy to exploit.''
thats too bad, but no matter what reason it may be - it still sucks regardless.
''but it also has some other features like being able to easily share your gameplay"
valid
", capture media, upload that media to your phone PS app"
valid
"it can start up games in a flash thanks to the SSD"
invalid. i dont see what loading has to do with features.
"and can still stream movies and play BluRays, and can even stream games now."
so can the ps3, as for streaming games it didnt need to because you could download games and it had native backwards compatibility. streaming and wifi is awful for gaming, its not ideal.
the ps3 has flaws, and ill give you the screen tearing if im wrong about it, but i feel that it more than makes up for the flaws it has that i believe was only due to the constraints of simply being a product of its time. the ps3 was a revolutionary super console in my opinion that was cutting edge and pushing limits that justified being as expensive as it was. free online, durable controller unlike the dualsense with insane battery life and wireless rechargeable batteries, blu-ray and blu-ray games, 3 generations of BC, HDMI and multiple other display methods for all types of TVs, 4 USB ports, Memory card slots, PSP compatibility, downloadable games including indies and retros and DLC. all this for a machine that released in 2006!
@Constable_What ultimately i believe this conversation just boils down to differing opinions and preferences, we want different from each system and i respect that you enjoy the ps5, and have different tastes.
my truly only issue with all of this was just to defend the ps3 and shine some light on the good that it brought and doesnt deserve the reputation it has
@nomither6 The PS3 doesn't have a bad reputation though. It used to when I first released, and until Uncharted 2 came in 2009 we didn't really see any amazing blockbuster games that Sony is now known for, we had some good games sure, but we didn't have those killer apps year after year like we do now. The PS3 has a reputation for failure yes, but also redemption.
That's 3 years the PS3 had to flounder until it started redeeming itself.
PS5 came out in 2020. It's 2023 now, and I don't think it is as rough as the launch as PS3, and even still it's too early to write it off as bad. That's like writing off the PS3 as bad just when great marquee games were coming out for it.
I do miss being able to play games natively from PS2 and PS3, but the PS3 basically had a PS2 included in the console itself for the 60 and 80GB version that supported that, and the power consumption was off the charts, literally as much as fridge, and the reason we can't play PS3 games on PS4 or 5 is because of the CELL architecture, these games had to either run utilizing that architecture or workaround it, and because of that it is incompatible with current software.
So, a lot of the hate right now, is that PS3 as great as it was for the time, is a wall in the way of preserving games. PS5 can play PS4 games no problem, but it can't run PS3 games. Xbox Series X can run games from OG Xbox to Series Xbox, and it's because they have used the same traditional CPU/GPU architecture that we have been using in computers for years. That architecture does not need to change, because we can continously innovate on that basic structure.
PS5 isn't without its faults too. The online service is dogwater, is too expensive, doesn't have good value, and they talk about vague changes, but never deliver.
There aren't as many multimedia features as older consoles, and there are missing PS4 features that should have been standard.
But it still only about 3 years the PS5 has been on the market.
Also, loading times are a feature. The fact that you can resume a game in seconds from the front-end is great feature...it's not a multimedia feature, but still.
PS3 simply can't be a revolutionary console man I'm sorry. If it was, then it would have changed the gaming technical landscape and every PC and console would be utilizing CELL, but they are not. It is obsolete tech that could never match the power of PS4 or even Xbox One, and even when you compare it to an Xbox 360 CPU... It isn't really that much more powerful for gaming.
@Constable_What you make good points. i have to admit that i do see the ps3 as a stain on the future of playstation myself due to the cell, & its irksome thinking about it. & i do admit the original models were i guess "too" ambitious, because they did have issues like you said with power consumption, and they had short lifespans, my fat ps3 actually died on me while i was playing. heh, and i also admit that i liked the xbox360 much more than the ps3 too, the ps3 honestly was very rough around the edges. the ps3 slim was a necessary evil otherwise the ps3 wouldnt have finished off the way it did. also forgot to mention that the legacy of playstations library did take a nosedive with the ps3.
thanks for the talk, ive learned something from this. the ps3 is still my favorite playstation though
@nomither6 The PS3 has a special place in my heart. Uncharted 1, 2, and 3 were my fondest memories, Siren Blood Curse is still on of my favorite survival horror experiences, and Metal Gear Online 2 was my very first online game that I played in my own home as a kid. My OG 80GB fat PS3 also died as I was playing. Yellow lighted. RIP.
I did prefer my 360, but the PS3 had some truly unique experiences, and some amazing features for the time. It wasn't revolutionary, but it was truly unique...and also what other console was bought in bulk and rigged together to crunch numbers by the US military?
I don't agree it was revolutionary, but I think if any console deserves the moniker "super console" PS3 gets it just for that. The military made it a super computer.
Always a pleasure talking with fellow Push Square members. Thanks for the discussion. It also got me thinking about the PS5's launch and how it compares to last two consoles.
If only Shawn Layden wasn't let go by Sony, he could've course corrected the problems Jim Ryan has made partially.
Sony used to be so committed to preserving games they had a console that would play them on modern devices as part of the package.
They called it the launch PS3. It was an amazing console able to play PS2 and PS1 games as part of the purchase price. There was even a hidden PSP emulator you could get at with homebrew.
Now if you want to do that sort of thing it's been stuck behind a paywall - either you rebuy old titles (some of which are PS2 Classics which don't run right on newer hardware due to poor porting) or pay monthly for the streaming of them. A lot of cult classics still aren't available this way, though.
So long story short, Shawn is right but sadly I don't see any change coming, especially when Konami and Rockstar and Sony et Al can make easy money from these piss poor ports.
Me personally, I'm keeping my personally refurbed Japanese PS3 until it doesn't work any more, because I love that I can play all my old games as they were, not minus licensed music or badly ported, for no extra charge other than my time to strip and clean it and repaste the processors.
@nomither6 I love and agree with your impassioned defense of the PS3. It's the pinnacle of PlayStation and they'll never do it again. Even now, it's a better more fully featured media centre than the pale imitation of such on the PS4 and PS5. The PS3 feels like it had care and attention poured into every part, whereas the other two are a bit more, well, it plays games, what more do you want?
@InsaneWade Unfortunately I think the (archaic) x86/x64 processor in the PS5 would melt if it tried to simulate the Cell architecture and its SPEs. Maybe Sony has something cleverer in mind? On raw horsepower alone, the PS5 would break.
@nomither6 @zekepliskin The PS3 was an overpriced mess when it came out but after many iterations of the OS, it matured into something rather special. My fat 60GB corrupted the hard drive when the PS Store update was launched and finally died after 5.5 years with the YLOD. Still got my 320Gb Slim 25xx series and it still gets used a lot. Hey, it even has themes!
Incidentally, I have seen screen tearing on it - Lego Star Wars: Complete Saga is a major culprit but eventually they implemented a VSync option, certainly in later Lego games.
As for the PS5? Well, it's a soulless fridge isn't it? As someone who also still owns a 72xx series PS4 Pro with a 6GB/s Crucial SSD inside, it isn't a major jump.
@sanderson72 i just dont understand how it was overpriced, it was packing with features gaming and non gaming alike and was the last big generational leap in gaming weve ever had. the ps5 is by far the most overpriced system ever released, its not cutting edge or a massive leap in what a console can do and peform unlike the ps3 was in comparison of 2006.
the ps3 was equivalent to a high end PC when it released, or in other words, better than PC; the PS5 isnt.
@zekepliskin thank you! my point exactly! glad someone else gets it!
I semi disagree. At least with older games. In the 80’s and 90’s (and technically the 70’s) a lot of games were made with the idea that these items wouldn’t last beyond their source console (or arcade).
Licensing (and theft), companies going under, poor source code retention, floaty IP ownership puts retro gaming (and sometimes modern gaming) in a sticky situation. Most things can be resolved by money of course (and companies can legally use roms of their IPs)but it is a two part problem. If companies spend the money to not only preserve games but make them available to modern consumers (and imo these are two different things) then the cost of that work has to go somewhere. The consumer market that “loves” old games on modern systems has already stated that it hates to pay for old games, usually balking at price, licensing changes that have to be made or release schedules (I love watching folks that complained during the VC era with Nintendo now complain that Nintendo went subscription and collections for the switch). Also how long does that last? Many collections are locked on a then modern/now defunct system. Are companies expected to rerelease the same games every gen? Sales numbers make that a waste of money for all but super popular franchises. Does this include indie games who may not last a gen or two? Should they sell their games to large publishers to allow them to be “preserved”?
Most companies that have remained in good standing own a prime/unopened copy of their games or code; that is preservation to me. Many libraries have games as well. Most companies do what they can to provide access to games that they believe consumers will purchase or subscribe to. Licensing issues aren’t going away ever, so honestly given that nobody had a crystal ball in the 80’s I think existing companies are doing ok given the situation. If you want to individually “preserve” gaming, the second hand market (and buying what you can now) is where it’s at. Most consumer products aren’t truly designed for consumption decades later (look at the movies and tv industry. So many things lost forever). As much as I have nostalgia for things, I don’t entirely think that is bad. Buy (and experience) what you can access in your life but don’t hoard or demand a company to provide for some future generation.
We need this guy back in Sony. Not the same without him. 😢
@trev666
For real. With DoSBOX on a modern PC you can play games made for the original IBM PC back in the 1980s. You can even still use floppy drives to play your original floppies from that time period. And games made for Windows from the late 90s are fully playable with either a Virtual Machine or even natively since the PC community is constantly fan patching old games to run on modern CPU and GPU set ups.
That’s something consoles will never have. The PC is so open that the legions of PC gamers have taken up the task of writing patches for games that are otherwise difficult to install and play on modern Windows PCs.
Chances are you can buy any old PC game from 20 years ago and get it running on a modern rig. Either through a fan patched version or through building an emulated machine in VM software. And DOSBox takes care of all those classic DOS games.
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