Bungie Layoffs Reportedly Impacted Around 100 Staff, Revenue 45% Below 2023 Projection

Hopefully Bungie are learning valuable lessons so that Marathon doesn't have the same convoluted and expensive business model as Destiny 2. Because if not and the game tanks then Sony may well have to either A) Sell Bungie onto someone else or B) Take on a more hands on approach and turn them much more into a 1st party studio.

I'm a bonafide Destiny hater, I used to love the game, but I've been disappointed too many times. It's a cycle of abuse, you get a little it seems like they change their ways, and then they go and stick their pippili in your ear, and it hurts and you're confused, and you're angry. You're angry at yourself because you trusted this stupid game again... After first year of Destiny 2 I had enough of the ol' "I've changed shtick". Bungie will never learn. They treat their players like disposable paypigs, and so is it any wonder they treat their employees the same?

Bungie truly has become the villains they were trying to get away from. Like many abusers. Truly sad.

For all those mad at Bungie for 'taking away shares' - that's not how unvested shares work. The employees don't own the shares until they vest - typically after a 2-4 year period. So they haven't 'gone back to Bungie' because they never left Bungie in the first place. This happens whether you leave out of choice or are asked to unfortunately.

Of course this is still terrible news for all those affected and as someone who has played Destiny for ten years (and preordered The Final Shape - something me and a few others in my clan are now reconsidering after this news) some of the names are people I feel like I know, have engaged with on social and congratulated on great work in the past. A sad day.

@naruball I think they checked the boxes they wanted to at the time.

• Wanted an established live service ip.
• Wanted a dev with live service experience.
• Wanted something they could turn into instantly popular anime/tv material.

Player numbers look to be a little higher than they were last November too. But wtf happened with Lightfall? People were so hyped for that. It seemed like an instant success, until it didn't.

Still, if FF XIV thought me anything it's that Destiny 2 is now a comeback story waiting to happen.
Then again, I'm an eternal optimist. Sometimes.

Edit: On the other hand, this makes me wonder if Sony won't revisit their decision on The Last of Us: Factions.

@Intr1n5ic Sooooo many assumptions going around yesterday. I'd love to see people waiting for the facts for once.

@naruball Sometimes I think the same myself though.
The only things I can think of to explain it are, either Marathon and Matter look really effin good, or Bungie have some proprietary dev tech that Sony really wanted to get their hands on.

Amen! Sad but true.

@Sequel May seem mad but Destiny is STILL in the top 20 most played games on PC, PlayStation and Xbox. For all the hate it gets, some of it deserved, gamers still flock to it. But like most live service playerbases many of those who have been there since the beginning are the most jaded. It's a love/hate relationship.

@Shepherd_Tallon Don't forget the timing of buying Bungie. I think Sony realised Bungie were available and wanted to secure them before someone else did, worried all the shooters might go away.

But the "Bungie killed Factions" narrative really needs to die. There is absolutely NO WAY they were the only deciders in this, was their feedback a part of the decision sure, but it's been grossly overstated.

It seems most likely from all that was leaks that the gameplay loop was just not compelling enough to get people to keep playing, and paying, long term. For all the bad press live services get that core gameplay loop HAS to be really good, else people will go away or won't pay.

@themightyant Yes I wonder if simply securing them played a part of it too.

I also agree that the whole Bungie killed Factions things doesn't carry much weight. They would have given feedback, but someone else made the decision. There's a lot of speculation and convenient narrative surrounding that, plus a lot of handy headlines too I'm sure.
I didn't explain it well but my point there was, while admittedly somewhat tongue in cheek, I wonder if Sony will revisit their decision and push for more people working on Factions again to try turn things around there with that title if Destiny isn't doing as well as expected.
Being realistic though, The Final Shape isn't even here yet so it's too early to talk about Destiny 2 failing.

@Shepherd_Tallon I just cannot believe that if Factions was TRULY a good game it would have been shelved. That makes ZERO business or logical sense. But people want to jump on the anti-live-service bandwagon and use reports like this as ammunition in their crusade.

I don't much like most live services but this is not the way.

@themightyant I've stumbled on a few live service games that kept me playing for a few months, but none have ever consistently held me over the long term.
The Division, Destiny, Age of Ashes all had me hooked for a few months, but then the burnout kicks in.
Mario Kart, the original Factions and Legends mode in Ghosts of Tsushima have been the only online games that I go back to year after year.

I have nothing against online games.
I would genuinely love a fantasy world that I could play in for years, but so far nothing holds me. And I agree with your point - projecting false narratives doesn't help anything.

Let me introduce you to Genshin... SCRAP that! Like most players who have played a live service from the start I have a love/hate experience with the game. But when it's good it's exactly that. As you were.

@Flaming_Kaiser Autocorrect? Unsure what your first line means.

Regardless agree 45% revenue drop is MASSIVE, agree large drop off in player count and weak player retention is all significant. Was just pointing out, for balance and context, that they are STILL in the top 20 most played games on all major platforms regardless.

Don't misunderstand me it's still a concern, as they were in the top 10 and sometimes in the top 5 but also not too surprising for a 6 year old game that has just had one of it's lightest most disappointing expansions. It's definitely a low moment, I'm just saying is it isn't ALL doom and gloom.

@Godot25 Agree 1200 seems a lot. But it takes a LOT of staff to power a AAA live service game, to get out expansions frequently and constantly balance the game. For context Genshin Impact dev MiHoYo has 4,000 employees spread across 3-4 current games.

Remember this figure is inflated for live service studios that need more full time staff, whereas other single player games like Horizon Forbidden West had over 3,300 credited staff, despite Guerilla being just 10% of that, as most are contracted in. For Destiny around 50% are full time staff.

You say they haven't put out a new game in 10 years, that's both inaccurate and disingenuous. Destiny 1 was 2014, Destiny 2 was 2017 and while the expansions may not qualify as 'new games' they have added 11 in 9 years while also working on Marathon and rumours of another game. That is a lot of work, takes a lot of staff.

@Flaming_Kaiser @Godot25 I agree it's a lot of staff, and if it was ME, for my taste, all these people would be working on AAA single player games and we would likely have had another 2-4 games in this timeframe, maybe more. But I look at the charts of most played games and it's filled with live services, multiplayer FPS & sports titles and I realise my tastes don't align with the masses.

@Flaming_Kaiser F2P is an interesting one. I want to dislike it, and do in many ways, but there are also massive benefits. e.g.

While I do wish there was a better alternative model, we haven't found it yet. And games like Genshin Impact that just COULD NOT be made with any other existing business model, only outliers like GTA spend these sorts of budgets on games, and like GTA I am glad it exists as a testament to what can be done if money was almost no object. And while I agree there are issues with the model, catching whales etc, you can 100% play the game and enjoy it for free. But not all F2P games are equal, some are very stingy, especially on mobile.

F2P also expands gaming to new audiences, it allows more players to play. That is good for the industry. A game like Genshin has over 60 million monthly players, mostly F2P. 60 million!!! that's more than COD Warzone (50 million) in an action RPG!!! That is fantastic for this hobby we love, as it gets more people into gaming.

@Flaming_Kaiser Microtransactions weren't started on mobile they were started in a big way AAA games by Elder Scrolls: Oblivion with Horse Armour. Though there were games like Second Life and Travian that had online payments and others like Kameo with costume changes before this, it was Oblivion and Horse armour that popularised it.

Though really the origins of MTX go back to the arcades and paying another coin to get another life, all this pre-dates mobile by a LONG way and is actually the original financial model for gaming. Some arcades even had a system where you could get one game for free to hook you in and get you to pay to play more (which led to people turning them on and off, LOL, and they had to come up with another randomised system for free plays) those are really the origins of F2P.

To be clear I don't want EVERY game to be free or F2P but I am glad SOME are, just as some books or television or movies are free. It's important to appeal to a larger demographic that WON'T buy a game first time round. This is their gateway into gaming and one way we grow the industry to a wider audience.

@Flaming_Kaiser I agree with many of your points. Though they are overstated in places. Many AAA F2P games aren't all that egregious they have a compelling enough gameplay loop that people just want to keep playing, and spending. (Apex, Destiny, Genshin, Fornite etc.). It's MUCH worse in the mobile space granted where gameplay is usually gated. This is rare in AAA.

But I just think it's a different financial model, and though in a perfect world I wouldn't have it, due to the predatory whale hunting, I think it's a necessary evil for now. But I respect that you disagree. I used to feel more like you but have changed my stance having played some of them at length.

Firing staff has nothing to do with F2P or not. It's more to do with a perfect storm of over-investment during covid, expansion off the back of that, high interest rates, dropping investment, a return to the mean, raising costs of everything and many more factors. No one is immune F2P or not.

@Flaming_Kaiser I've never played Gems of War, but I did play a few mobile F2P which were truly awful, gating progress or the amount you can play. But not all F2P are equal and it's not right to paint them all with the same brush. In my experience console F2P is VERY different.

I agree the predatory side of it is flawed, preying on addictions and compulsions preying on FOMO, but we really need to fix the root cause of that, which isn't the game and doesn't only exist in gaming. But people also brand anyone who spends a lot in these games as 'victims', when the reality is that is a small proportion of users. Most who spend do so willingly.

What people spend their money on is up to them. Some people buy bottles of wine that cost thousands of pounds/dollars, or spend thousands on sports events etc. or other disposable things I might think is madness, but it's up to them. Equally if a gamer wants to spend their money on a game, because it is THEIR hobby, their joy then it is up to them, even if I think it's mad.

@Flaming_Kaiser I played Fallout Shelter at launch on iOS and my understanding is it wasn’t as full featured as it later got, but it also wasn’t filled with MTX. My memory may be wrong but I think that the more egregious MTX was added later. I was addicted for a few weeks then gave up very quickly as I just had a realisation of how shallow it was and my TIME was better spent with something i enjoyed more.

But it was definitely one of those games that revolved around “waiting” for timers to run down. To be clear this is neither good nor bad, it’s just a very different type of ‘management’ game. I don’t personally like it, I play games to explore and have stories and fun. But many like the calming loop of games like this, the repetition, and SLOWLY managing things. It’s more akin to real life whether that’s tending plants or animals or relationships. I’m not going to gatekeep and say it’s bad just because I don’t personally like it. Just different strokes for different folks.

Video games and addictions are closely linked and it’s a VERY complex topic, worthy of many dissertations, so I can only touch on the top level here. Almost every game uses the psychology of addiction to keep us playing. When we talk about a “compelling gameplay loop” or that “just one more run” feeling this is exactly what this is. The designer has purposefully designed their game to appeal to the same side of our brain as things like gambling. This is as old as gaming itself, not just video games but all games, video games just escalated it with constant sensory overload.

An extreme example of this is Vampire Survivors, made by an ex-gambling machine maker he used all his learnings on the psychology of gambling, the thill of it all, controlling how and when chemicals are released into our brain, to make a very addictive game. Obviously the big difference is that they didn’t keep asking for money (too often, there are a few DLC) in exchange for the thrill.

I say all that because it’s not quite as black and white as F2P are predatory or deliberately addictive and other games aren’t, they are ALL on that scale. We all have a line on that scale that we individually think is unacceptable, the line you don’t cross. Mine has moved recently.

I don’t have a problem with F2P. I DO have a problem with the way some, not all, F2P games are specifically monetised to prey on the weak willed and those with addictive personalities as extremely as they are. But I could say the same thing about World of Warcraft, most competitive multiplayer games or even Starfield in how they are designed to be addictive and eat up time. For many time is more important than money. It’s not a simple, or short, debate. So I’ll leave it there.

Either way the general rule of a good life is (almost) everything in moderation… if only I could live by it and stop playing so many games!

@Flaming_Kaiser And that is your choice, your personal preference, you would rather spend money than time.

No problem with that, it's my preference too.

All I am saying is many people are in a different position and would rather spend time than money.

Neither is right or wrong it's just personal preference, i'm not going to stand here and gatekeep.

@Flaming_Kaiser I agree with you on XP boosters, selling us the solution etc.

The 4% is deceptive. that's based on ALL PlayStation revenue. If you actually read Sony's report carefully ONE THIRD (32%) of games sold were physical in Q2 2023. But that doesn't factor in many games that are digital only, or the second hand market. The overall impact of physical is much greater than this 32% suggests.

TLDR: Physical gaming is in MUCH better health than Sony are letting on here. And Push Square are deliberately stirring the pot here imo making physical appear as small as possible, and it worked, the most engagement on any article today.