Hiroki Totoki has a lot of titles at Sony; in addition to being president, COO, and CFO of the corporation, he's more recently stepped into the role of PlayStation chairman as Jim Ryan winds down his time at the company. He's among the company's top dogs, then — but what does he make of Sony Interactive Entertainment since he became more directly involved? Speaking on a recent earnings call, he seems happy with PlayStation's first-party teams, but has some concerns about the business side of things.
In meeting with management teams and visiting the studios themselves, Totoki says "everyone is working really hard to fulfill their responsibility to try to optimise the business", but feels there's a lack of understanding about "overall growth and sustainable profitability or increasing margin". He says that's SIE's main problem.
"I try to understand what is happening in the company, in the industry, and also in the perspective of the analysts, and try to explain in a transparent manner so that people can recognise and notice these issues so that we can have a harmonised approach going forward," Totoki says. He further comments that the studios and the people within them are "very highly motivated" with "great creative minds", but that there's "room for improvement" when it comes to the business itself. "And that's got to do about how to use the money or about the schedule of development or how to fulfill one's accountability towards development, et cetera."
In other words, Totoki is looking for ways that PlayStation can not only grow, but also be more efficient in terms of money. It's no secret that production budgets are through the roof for games at this scale, and that they take tens or hundreds of people years and years to develop. It sounds as though there's a desire from Totoki to find a more sustainable balance between making the sort of games that fans expect from Sony, and keeping costs down to ensure those games make a better financial return.
It'll be very interesting to see whether Sony's gaming business makes any discernible changes in the next few years or so. What do you make of these quotes from Hiroki Totoki? Discuss in the comments section below.
[source resetera.com]
Comments 42
All I can think of is new Infamous and Killzone. Heck, I would even take a proper first two games remasters..
There are not enough live service games. That needs to change.
Improving the business side of things due to razor thin margins was exactly what I said was their issue at the last earnings call, which I got some kick back about from people on here, that do not understand the business, because all you ever see is headlines of Sony selling consoles and celebration on push. But to do that over the last year they have had to heavily discount the system, and they still missed their target by several millions.
The gaming industry is in a difficult position right now and its something Sony needs to get on top of fast. No point being one of the top selling consoles if you are making hardly any money from it, even after increasing game prices, console price and subscription price very recently.
I am not sure what the answer is, as Sonys business is so reliant on selling consoles, which as a market is not growing and has not been for years. With their costs ballooning, this is a very bad place to be in.
I am sure some brainiac at Sony will be beavering away at a solution and I wish them the best of luck
Quick, the horse has left the barn! Close the door!
I can’t believe three years in they’ve only just noticed they don’t have enough games and have spent too much cash.
@Czar_Khastik Well Rare just teased the Sea of thieves PlayStation and Nintendo port on their twitter page so that will have to do, lol.
I can see the discussion in Tokio: „What are the guys in California doing over there? 10m sales for SM2 is fine, but Nintendo sells 12m units of Super Mario Wonder with a feaction of development costs. Maybe the creation of SIE in California with their Hollywood attitude was a bad idea.“
Hiroki Totoki seems like a smart man. I like the way he looks at things. We'll see how long he'll stay though.
Another statement coming from him that shows he's obsessed with growth as others have pointed out long ago.
@dschons While I agree the pursuit of never ending growth is ridiculous, I guess that’s literally the objective of his job.
@Max_the_German Yea, but would you want a wattered down Spider-Man with AA budget?
Nobody would buy it. At this point everybody expects flashy top shelf AAA experiences from Sony, as others have stated.
So following what Jim was doing and getting live service games off the ground then.
Doesn’t seem like things will change that much if this is the dialogue coming out.
@Sil_Am hence the need for the so-called live service titles. If done right they can become cash cows allowing plenty of revenue to be re-invested into the single player stuff. It’s just a fact. Sony needs there live service titles desperately
@Max_the_German I wouldn't say it was a bad idea, but they definitely need some smaller budget titles.
Then again they manage to fill in the spaces with titles like Stellar Blade too.
A mix of all of this wouldn't do any harm.
This can be said about alot of people in the industry. 2 examples are the cost of Immortal of Aveum and Callisto Protocol. Cost of those games were insanely high and never, even in better situations be recoverable or produce a solid ROI.
Didn't Sony have a very successful generation with the PS4?
Yet instead of just repeating what they did with PS4 for PS5 they instead decided to change it completely . . . . and then wonder why it's not working out for them.
They literally had the blueprint on what to do but decided that wasn't enough for them and greed took over.
More AA games like Helldivers would help keep costs down.
Sony will probably start to release games on PC Day 1 as well.
@get2sammyb Absolutely, it wasn't a dig at him.
@Frmknst : It's more of a gut feeling, but basically how he acknoledges the talent they have, while not losing sight about the realities of the cost and wanting to cultivate an understanding of this by the studio leaderships. He also seems to want to understand all the wheels turning beforce getting in and mindlessly changing everything. It's all the things that should be expected from one in his position, but rarely gets put into practice. It's not exactly how I feel, but it's hard to describe (as gut feelings tend to be). Also it's not like I deeply thought about all this, it's not my company xD
For now it's just pretty words anyway.
@Sil_Am @ Max_the_German Yeah no one would buy that.
Nintendo is an outlier that relies on brand loyalty/recognition.
Look at Pokemon for example. Anything with that logo sells regardless of quality. If Spiderman looked and ran like Pokemon Scarlet it would not sell at all.
People complained that SM2 was too short. Mario Wonder is shorter. The expectations for the 2 are just too different to compare.
Hiroki Totoki Literature Club
As a consumer, I don’t necessarily like hearing the new head of PlayStation say this kind of corporate speak when discussing the future of the company. While I recognize the need to keep the company viable financially, at the end of the day all I want is good games! And preferably single player and without microtransactions. 😅
Removed - inappropriate; user is banned
Heads up.
Get ready for $80.00 games!
What is Sony worried about? After Microsoft's announcement tomorrow Sony will have won the console war and we will all be playing the next Bethesda game in brilliant Apple Vision Pro. Get out your credit cards kids it's gonna be a bumpy 2024
I was most interested comments on no major IP launches until at least April 2025 and the future strategy of going multiplatform. I think it will be a fairly quiet year for SIE but there is plenty of 3P stuff to get stuck into.
Console sales have thin profit margins and software sales are down so day & date on PC may be a smart move. Sony have already built up enough of a fan base to not need exclusives anymore.
Also like many I would like to see SIE HQ move out of the US and back to Japan.
The interesting part of his message was the quote "1st party can be grown with multiplatform."
He only referenced "computers" but either way it is enlightening to know that they also don't see exclusives as sustainable. The industry is changing.
@BacklogBrad that was interesting. Has anyone in the industry ever spoken on how much extra time/money multiplatform development takes up?
If it's not that expensive or time consuming then releasing on other platforms should be a no-brainer.
What they need is one of their already established IP's that had a great single player campaign, to also be usable as a Live Service/multiplayer in the end game (you know, like GTA did) Other live service stuff is totally hit and miss, but if you have created the world, lore and environments people want to play in, you are half way to success before you start.
It's a shame they didn't fully commit to TLoU online, that would have maybe been a good start point to test the waters on this.
They do have Killzone (a game I never played) but I imagine it would take less effort to make that into a profitable game than trying to latch on to a random new trend.
Uncharted Online: Global Treasure Hunts, something like that as a spin off for kids. Have timed treasure hunts with rewards for the multiplayer element they tagged on to that franchise, once. It doesn't have to be anything to do with Nathan Drake, or a story, just create avatars and try to be first (top X number on a Global leaderboard) to solve clues, hunt the treasure, fight off some people and get your boosts and rewards for the next round of the hunt.
If the interest in the IP is already there, there is more reason for people to stick around, you'd hope.
@Ravix not releasing TLoU Factions was baffling. They do have the Horizon multiplayer game ( early footage leaked some years back) but we've heard nothing about it.
@ED_209 can only speak for myself, but if PS goes that route then I'll definitely switch to PC. Been keeping my eyes open for any 50 Series GPU news lately so them doing that would give me even more of a reason to switch. At that point, a PS console would just be a glorified mid-ranged PC with pay to play online in my eyes
They need to tease the Bluepoint/Bend/ND/Sucker Punch work that's going on ASAP. It's fine if it's in the same '25 launch window as GTAVI and MH Wilds. This generation is feeling like a rugpull at the moment with the long drought and dearth of VR2 content
@VaultGuy415 I forsee this gen getting extended like the PS3 gen did. Years like 2023 saw so many titles get buried by a crowded release window that alot of games will be slow burns rather than big sellers. Attach rate will increase once our wallets have a moment to breathe.
@ReignMan_27 - Lots of people would do the same. Which makes me curious to see how much they would lost in subscriptions, purchases on their own store and so on.
He sounds much more level headed than Jim. Instead of chasing trends he wants to ensure if they invest in something, it retains its ROI. Good to hear, because the last thing anyone wants is more live service games.
Make more AA games, not infested with boring cinematics, and move PS HQ back to Japan.
@3Above "If it's not that expensive or time consuming then releasing on other platforms should be a no-brainer."
Except that it makes your platform dramatically less attractive.
@get2sammyb ‘i am obsessed with growth’ are his own words.
He is one of the reasons of the (creative) downfall of Playstation this generation. Money and GaaS first.
https://www.ft.com/content/50794294-bf67-4a74-bbf9-dc05b617a9ae
Shame really what this business has become. Destroyed like Football. In the hands of Middle eastern, American and Chinese investors.
@Art_Vandelay Agreed
In the past an exclusive game had to show to the max what the console could do and had to be good. Making a profit wasn't needed. The user base would grow and a lot of money was earned with third party games. I think that still should be the case.
@Sil_Am exactly it's either reduce quality, charge more for games or start making games multi platform
I think there is room for improvement. Whether double down, third party/PC releases more or just reduce quality. If they think Last Guardian/GT5 cost a lot why have games be too blockbuster and cost probably even more.
Killzone would be cool to see back and an FPS space to fill but seeing as Immortals was fantasy, had technical limits but also a looter shooter and some basic but ok magic system for guns. I mean BF Hardline was a while ago, other trends are big. Indies are military immersive experiences. I don't know if it can thrive these days it's why I'm going backwards. Or look to Bright Memory Infinite as an oh it's a fair blend of fast paced, melee/shooter in a faster paced way then a Devil's Third/Wanted Dead, or a FPS DMC or what Vanquish if it had a sequel could be of action game shooter logic, or whatever.
Areas people haven't really bothered to push. Or a more instead of motion more realistic animations with analogue sticks which Record/Unrecord or whatever the Steam trailer was made me thing of. Than formuliac animations all the time.
We could have less 'perfect' games and more dynamic ones. Whether 'elements' I wish Rift Apart had for a cycling locations boss fight or more like survival games or how some games used to be dynamic. Why do we have difficulty settings and less 'more health, less enemies, enemies learn or unlearn' level of enemy AI. Why is 'that' not a thing. That'd be a lot of work but I mean it's pushing ideas.
I mean the GTA reacting to rain with NPCs. I was like, Roller Coaster Tycoon has visitors with umbrellas (if they bought them not all do get an umbrella from the umbrella stalls) use them in rain and it's pixel art. That's 2000s responsive AI right there, dynamic enough for people? Can they improve on it nowadays of course they can but is it a new idea no on a certain level.
So if marketing like that goes around I just can't not laugh the more games of old I see and go oh that's been done, that hasn't returned. It's why I focus on Ride 4 improving Forza Motorsport 1 & 2's region system. Turn 10 haven't attempted that since 2007 with Forza 2. Yet Milestone improves it well.
Yet also their rewind system creation in a Alfa Romeo one make advertising game (you'd think shovelware but isn't even though most are and a handful are of good quality) also was great with RPG elements for cars driving, why should they if it's got it's purpose but is that great (and good music) on top of creating it.
They dumbed it down in later games they have made and followed what Grid 2008/Forza Motorsport 3 did of dumbing it down (don't see that with Gears and Uncharted popularising it, others following suit of cover based shooters yet Killswitch by Namco US started it in 2003 on PS2). Created the rewind system (made a Car RPG in a different way then Square's Racing Lagoon), and followed suit then improved upon it but improve on Forza's region system in their bike game. It's just hilariously sad to me. Whether they even intended or improving it I don't know but the fact they look to Forza Motorsport so much Ride 2 and Forza Motorsport 6 the introduction cutscenes alone makes it clear they take inspiration says a lot of why I think so. Besides still doing their own thing, Ride to Gravel. Sure Ride 4 is hard and I can't play it but their creative ideas still shine through at least.
This is why I find Indie platformers being so nostalgia focus and 'refining' so sad. 5th gen/6th gen/7th gen had great major third parties or Indie platformers yet we get nostalgia clones. No thanks. You look broader better is out there of certain ideas even if not done well could by someone else. Not repeating the same design and making it so repetitive among all products I don't want to buy any of them because they all blend somewhat together. It's just boring and saturated nostalgia. That the left behind ones are more fresh and exciting and I've never played or heard of them before not never heard of them Indies but bland games then the original Indies in other genres I'd rather play that are unique and taking better cues or experimenting 'how they should'.
Nostalgia helps financially but also is boring and saturated over time or lacking. I'd rather good gameplay not repetitive gameplay and themes/characters I'm just not interested. Comfort to a point or new experiences.
I mean is MotoGP games better nowadays sure maybe but too hard and other than 16 (different name but saying 16 as is 16 technically) the rally/dirt bike content was easier and more fun and the management of 9/10 or WRC 2 has been more fun to me than a pros only experience.
Have a Song of the Deep, Pentiment or others from time to time. That's where Japan Studios fit in well. They didn't always sell well but how many people went yeah something different, yeah a game in-between waiting for others or are some people's favourite games. Big or small, Siren/Gravity Rush/Puppeteer or EchoShift/EchoChrome, LocoRoco, Patapon, etc.
GT games car, sponsor, track and more licenses alone cost a lot even with them making all the cars from scratch then the Forza keeping the assets around and maybe updating them which GT3-6 did with PS2 models.
In terms of creativity to following trends (nothing wrong with roguelike with the DLCs or Insomniac making Song of the Deep a metroidvania in 2016 for Gamestop's publishing besides Ratchet 2016), or just the writing/themes some areas need improvements.
I think some have just gone weird directions over the years. Too much certain audiences when some they need to focus on. Weird writing decisions. Weird company culture maybe.
I think the censorship is fair but also a bit too far in others. Even Microsoft doing so has made me go yeah these are particular games, but we have shovelware on the platform and some audiences will just go elsewhere.
How can you have Leisure Suit Larry games on here (granted I don't know how toned it is), Postal games like what? but no Gal Gun Returns? Or others. Some sure do push a line too far I totally get it no matter the ratings or not suitable for console audiences. But like where is the stand for what fan services games west or east get a pass. It's just weird.
Seeing Insomniac pull a Resistance 2 and backtrack better with 3 of 'their DNA'. To me it's just weird how far some companies loose themselves but then again with Ratchet going cinematic since 2007. I get the changes because of the themes in the old games but that far to what animation studios do?
2016 was a Illumination movie by Rainmaker not a Disney movie. Even then Rift Apart feels like it wants multiverses for nostaglia and to talk to us old fans while trying to balance newcomers and while that's very hard to do there is that and then just making the gameplay safe and also just making a very eh story.
Outer Worlds and Journey to the Savage Planet can do commercialism/capitalism? They don't have to do it just proving a point on how some studios seem to be able to still cut the other aspects of Insomniac in their 20s with some jokes that don't fly today and the whole theming. They don't have to go back just make the series have more of a direction then 2007+ story that just needs to end already. Or being whimsy all the time and balance it. I get the staff grew up but I mean come on.
How many Ratchet, God of War, Uncharted emotional story telling pushes do we need. Have a balance for audiences whether were in our 20s to 50s+ how much do we need to be told/feel something the way 'they want us to'.
Balance it out for audience come on. I'm not say Millennial writing (I play Borderlands for the gameplay, but I'll play any platformer/racing game for it's gameplay, or Nintendo games for the gameplay, Darksiders or whatever mix of edge that's a bit far) by any means I mean just writing and gameplay that balances things without trying to aim for them that much. I know a lot has changed and trends make that difficult but I mean they can do Kid and Adult themes and audience fairly well. But some of us maybe be adults but still enjoy a bit more flexibility with the titles not trying to be a movie all the time.
Foamstars to me tries to have the hip appeal but the gameplay is lacking ideas. Diofield I felt the same Square pushes story but the gameplay disappoints or drags on and on and they stop balancing gameplay ideas by Chapter 4 (the team members you can't use was great, 5-7 were boring as ever for gameplay and story after the betrayal and drags on). Yet Disgaa or Valkyria Chronicles 4 I was always having a level design or no team members I couldn't use balance of goals.
Same with Sunset Overdrive a fair spin of tower defence or rail grinding (making me question why Scaler did rail grinding of speed/up and down states better in 2004 yet it took Insomniac till 2015 with SO to do it, sigh). When story/themes happen more than gameplay or trends it says a lot.
Also the movie push. Layton said about Vib Ribbon yet Jim downsized Japan Studios umbrella.
Having mobile games or live services is fair while standing out with their own offerings. But who thought Sony needed live services. Microsoft has done it and while it works not everyone needs a Sea of Thieves exclusive live service game. Third parties benefit from that more than first party I think. Possible sure but worth it long term, gameplay, crossovers, marketing, I don't think so.
While it made sense from a financial stand point it also limits Sony having more push of certain directions 'too heavily' rather than a better balance of creativity. If they had 60 40 I'd be fine with it. Enough broad appealing titles while still a bit of flexibility. Unless that's what the studios want besides what Sony wants. Which publishers do guide things and the studios do what they can to match it from themes to use Move, PS Store, PSVR, touchpad or whatever over the years to put them in when they can. Aka Insomniac took till Fuse/All For One to focus on co-op, Quest for Booty for a PS Store title/support. Resistance 2 for PSP support. That sort of stuff they do from time to time or delay it till a title they can. Tough stuff sometimes for sure.
To me already I'm not interested in their movie feel direction of many titles. 90% of their titles do this and it drew me away from the PS4 around 2016/2017 to buy a Vita, Wii U, 3DS and Switch, part systems i missed out on and the latest Nintendo system to get the variety of gameplay genres I was missing, not just try their IPs out for the first time then Wii/DS briefly, when they started it with Uncharted/Last of Us 'too much' more than they did Jet Li, 24 The Game or others in the past.
So to me only Asobi/Media Molecule interest me (will take a while to come out). That's 2 out of however any studios. London aren't making a PSVR2 game, Bluepoint is doing whatever, Bend who knows. It takes time but I think we need better balance of things.
Third parties are working well to fill in gaps but even still.
Yet I'll go back to their old games because of the variety of tones, themes, gameplay and genre. I never played many of them only a handful of first party IPs due to age (no way playing God of War at a young age right but did GT or Ratchet, LBP or other IPs)/availability of copies so I have no nostalgia for the Twisted Metal, MotorStorm, Socom I have the headset but not the game so bought up a few entries, I'll get to Puppeteer eventually, but have enjoyed those I missed out on and filled in gaps by collecting them or seeing what gameplay ideas games had.
Not trends for the sake of trends or movie quality to suit 'only' a casual audience/some gamers or loyal fans sure. A broad audience yes. They can have trends to follow (have to to stay afloat unless pushing their own trends which they are even if cinematic + AC + Last of Us + roguelike + others) but a bit of experimentation would be nice from time to time.
Sony hasn't been trying to appeal to gamers all the time which makes sense of course to do so with their big hit games 'certain ones' or the party games of Eye Toy, Singstar, Move for some games, Playlink with Smartphones, PSVR with Playroom VR more so.
But at the same time their past IPs really gave me more respect and interest in the platform, to have more pushes of each gen not only their audience growing up but also just the variety of elements in the games, settings, themes, gameplay, pushing the hardrware well and more.
Sure we got less titles over time from Japan Studios (makes sense due to GT5 or Last Guardian costing a lot and delaying or too many Japan Studios under that umbrella and whatever we didn't see from them that got cancelled) but to only Asobi and localisation? Was a bit far I think.
Dropping Liverpool, Zipper, Guerilla Cambridge (Vita/PSVR yet did or didn't die but another second Guerilla studio happened?) and keeping Bend for Days Gone then whatever Vita project they had. It made sense and staff were either put into other studios or let off or whatever the case then too many studio buildings or however many people needed or whatever the case.
Bokeh/Claphands and more sure are probably going to do well but at the same time I think their efforts will be missed for sure even if going third party offers them more options.
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