More People Are Playing the Original Horizon Zero Dawn Than Its Remaster on PC

This is a silly comparison because so many have played the game already.

I don't think you can compare steams concurrent players of a remaster with full games. Remasters will always do worse.
Look at Ghost of Tsushima that recently came out for PC, that did far better numbers.

Because the remaster was pointless? And took time and resources that could’ve been spent making an original game or sequel?

Literally a third of the price of the remaster. Clickbait article at best.

@Mattock1987 You do know Guerilla Games didn't do the remaster right? They are probably working on the sequel, rest assured.

Tbf the original is probably way easier to run on weaker PCs than the remaster

The thing is, PC players are telling Sony exactly what is wrong with the release, but Sony doesn’t care.

Maybe start listening to the audience you are trying to sell to?

I think this is more because a lot of people played the game already. Not everyone replays games, especially with so many games available and not enough time.

I would think, but I could be wrong, having had plenty of time to mod the original might account for the remaster's tepid reception. Also who's trying to re buy a game that didn't come out that long ago on PC?

@DonkeyFantasy The PSN requirement for single player games is one sticking point. Especially when the original PC release didn’t have any PSN requirement and was available to more countries.

The $10 upgrade fee also doesn’t help - especially with the PC version being considerably newer than the PS4 release.

I'm glad there's a ten pound remaster. But Im still not gonna rush out and get it. If at some point in the future I actually want to play hzd again then sure. But it's hardly exiting.

@Steel76 The Dev who made this are a port team, this remaster is the biggest thing they have ever done.

@get2sammyb I'm really enjoying this remaster. Everything about it is so much better. The new improved graphics are just jaw dropping overall and especially in the cauldrons where that lighting is just some of the best I've seen in any game. The audio is a hell of a lot better as well through my pulse headset. All in all its a stellar remaster and for £10 as well. I wish all remasters followed this pricing structure then they would be welcomed more.

I have heard from reliable sources that you can very easily pirate Playstation games on PC, so why would anyone ever buy a game from them?

They should honestly do better and make sure it is unpirateable. Require a verifikation every five minutes or something. Otherwise, pull the games from the platform. DO NOT GIVE IT AWAY FOR FREE at competitive platforms, Sony.

Also, do not waver from having them sign in. There are adult crybabies who will cry about anything that isn't crystal meth shot directly into their veiny eyeballs.

Who would have thought a remake of a 7 year old game wouldn’t sell that well. 🤣

@Steel76 I think you need to play it because it's more than just "More grass and Fog." When you actually play it you realise just how impressive this remaster is and this is coming from a guy who really dosnt go much for remasters. And if you say you have played it and you stand by your comment I'll simply tell you to go get your eyes tested because somethings wrong.

I swear, the “resources” people must not know how to walk and chew gum at the same time. Just a silly argument. “Why did you do this one thing when you could’ve been doing the other thing?” Um, because I can do 2 things as once WTF?! Also, didn’t a different team to the remaster? Not even the devs who created the original game?

@EfYI what are you waffling on about?

@Northern_munkey I downloaded both versions to my console and the difference is uncanny. Those who claim to not see the difference can’t see it because their angry bias goggles won’t allow them to.

I think that the extra character animations in conversations is the best addition to this remaster.

@EfYI Also, do not waver from having them sign in. There are adult crybabies who will cry about anything that isn't crystal meth shot directly into their veiny eyeballs.

I think you missed the part where PSN is not available in a large majority of countries around the world.
But then again, the way you speak of other people is so unrespectful and childish you probably don't care about it either.

Too bad the game is so flawed, it‘s literally unplayable. First hour or so was fine, but since Meridian I can‘t play for 10 minutes straight without crash to homescreen. Nixxes did a REALLY bad job with this, all other bugs weren‘t even mentioned by me and there is a TON of it.

@EfYI so you are admitting freely to pirating games or at the very least endorsing such nefarious practices? Well done sir 👏

@LowDefAl yes I understand that but that's still re-buying the game. I wasn't speaking to the amount paid.

Edit: I'll rephrase as to avoid confusion... Who wants to spend more money when they maybe don't really need to since the original isn't that old.

Sony are clearly feeling the effects of not bending over to the PC master whiners.

@Cerny are you playing on the pc? I'm playing the ps5 and I've not had a single crash. There are a few odd moments during dialogue but nothing as game breaking as you have described. If you are playing the pc version then that's pretty bad.

@Steel76 I think Nixxes has been specifically bought to only work on PC ports. But you’re right, they could have. However, im sure they are also working on other ports

Isn't it common sense that most people would be playing the original? The 10 dollar upgrade is for the more hardcore fans which were never going to be on PC. Even on PS if even 1 million people upgrade the game, it will be profitable.

Sony port games to PC to grab some extra cash from another market. We've played the game on our Playstation and the PC players who didn't or those who prefer the Mega Ultra Version wait and play it there. I doubt it takes a severe amount of man power to do so and gets Sony money from another market. However typical Sony damage this by literally making it so thousands of people can't buy the damn thing even if they wanted.

Also maybe PC players aren't enamored with the open world cinematic collect-a-thons. Years ago I used to see on forums a lot PC gamers complaining they didn't have access to a wealth of different games that were only on console or if they were ported, done pretty badly. They have those now along with thousands of other titles across multiple genre's. If it wasn't for the Indie Devs console gaming would be dying a death for me personally that along with all the studios that have gone and the myriad of genres and IP's we've lost. Sorry, went off track there.

@EfYI I may not agree with the admittedly creative phrasing lol, but i do agree with the sentiment. If having to log in with a launcher can maybe verify users using a legitimate version, especially in the PC world where piracy is a big issue, im all for it.

If PC users just took the two mins of time that it took all Playstation users to sign up, they wouldn't be ‘inconvenienced’ again for all future Playstation releases on PC

It’s much cheaper. It runs easier. More people own it already to be playing it. Non-story. The remaster just inherently is less value for money for PC gamers

@Stale-Bread I'll echo your sentiments about the indie devs. I have to be honest and admit that over the past 3 years or so that I've had my ps5 the games that have impressed me most and given me the most bang for buck have pretty much all been released by indie devs or studios such as the guys that made lies of p and lords of the fallen etc. I'd like more first party games but I'm not about to ditch my ps5 just because there aren't that many at the moment.

@Northern_munkey Nope, PS5 too. As I said, before Meridian everything was fine. But then it started to crash like absolute crazy. Even worse than cyberpunk on ps4, 6 hours playtime resulted in like 40 crashes now.

@Cerny well that sucks..I myself am at the same point in the game you appear to be and I've honestly experienced zero issues. Let's see how I fare a bit further down the road.

@Cerny Don’t worry, I’m sure you’ll get replies saying it didn’t happen for them therefore it didn’t happen at all.

@Cerny You’re free to do so, but claiming “Nixxes did a REALLY bad job with this” seems a bit premature. None of the reviews mentioned anything like this. And it had 42 critic reviews on Metacritic. Maybe theres something wrong with ur version 🤔

@nessisonett Nope, not suggesting it didn't happen. Just saying it maybe has something to do with his version. Its just that this is the first time im reading of such gamebreaking bugs, similar to cyberpunk, especially having 40 in a few hours. If its that unplayable for everyone im sure we would have read it everywhere by now right?

A lot of people pointing out that their PC releases keep having low concurrent players but I think people are forgetting another reason sony is doing pc ports. The insomniac leaks showed that they plan to expand ps plus, so having a lot of their games on PC will make a pretty big first party line up when they launch plus on PC.

@EfYI terrible idea, people will always pirate games on PC, and by adding in extra checks and steps and this and that...end result is you just annoy people that bought your game genuinely...whilst pirates STILL find workarounds. Those pirates were never going to buy the game in the first place so it's not even lost sales. Stuff like this oftens impacts a games performance whilst running too, so more negatives for legitimate buyers.

If a game is good people that want to buy it will buy it, some even pirate games and go on to buy them if they enjoyed them to support the Devs.
Not all pc gamers, or even pirates are whiney crybabies.
What's not helping is stuff like removing the original from purchase, and Sony's love for forcing PC users to use a PSN, despite all the backlash.

Think this is more indicative of their remake strategy rather than their PC strategy.

This is very much to be expected considering it's not a free upgrade and the remaster forces PSN requirement. Lego Horizon Adventures will be the most interesting data about Sony's PC strategy considering it's also releasing on Switch.

Honestly, good. The only way to stop these unnecessary remasters that only take away time and money from new games is to not buy them.

Of course there won’t be the same high of concurrent players as with the original, people either won’t feel the need to buy the remake after playing the original, or won’t feel the same urgency as they’ve experienced most of the game before so the sales will be more spread through time.

It's almost as if these PC ports are a waste of time and resources and are only just alienating Playstation's actual core audience. They should just stop it's not worth it looks at Nintendo they don't do this and they're doing just fine

Couldn't care less about PC but thoroughly enjoyed HZD almost 8 years ago and now thoroughly enjoying it all over again. Do enjoy HZD very mildly a bit more than HFW. This is quite literally the best looking remaster I've ever played, even if it was already a decently good looking game in 2017PS4 standards. Better looking than many other PS5 games this remaster. Balanced VRR the one. Nixxes has done a top tier job on this

@IOI The company that did this remaster only does remasters. They didn’t take time away from any other projects other than additional remasters by making this.

As far as money, I doubt the resources needed to make this were all that onerous.

@WizzNL Fair enough. Again i wasn't implying that the game isn't broken. It was just that I've never heard anything like it till now.
Same thing happened with Spiderman 2. I had zero bugs or technical issues on my whole playthrough, while some did encounter these. Im not very knowledgeable on the technical side. Im honestly curious about it.
So i wonder if anyone here knows how things like this can happen? How can different people download the same game code, but have different experiences?

Probably because PC players are sulking over the PSN requirement again. Also these games are never going to do as well as they would on Playstation consoles, Sony are using to the PC platform as a quick cash boost when the Console sales for these single player games dry up, so I don't think Sony really care if sales aren't that impressive on PC (unless it's a multiplayer game).

@Keyblade-Dan Im also not a big fan of remasters and would like to see more new first party titles.
But we cant forget that these are just placeholders. As in, they’re here to cover the fact that there havent been many first party releases. Now if these remasters and remakes, which dont take much time and resources anyway, didn't happen. I bet you lots of people would be complaining even more about the lack of first party output. This way they atleast tried to mitigate it.

I just hope that whatever the reason for the lack of large output, probably just increased development time, will be done soon.

I don't care what PC gamers do.

I'm loving the remastered version on PS5

@dskatter Nixxes could have also made a Bloodborne Remastered for PS5 and PC, or a Astro Bot Rescue Mission Remastered for PSVR2 and PC. That would have made MUCH more sense than a remaster of a game that already runs flawlessly with 60 fps on PS5 and PC.

But Aloy is Hermen‘s baby. And I‘d be surprised if the critical success of Astro Bot would go down well for him: NOT GaaS, NOT a massive 60+ hours formulatic open-world game for USD 200m, but a smaller, super-creative game with character.

I hope that Nicolas Doucet from Team Asobi soon becomes the new CEO of SIE and moves SIE to where it was when it was called SCE, to Japan.

It's a tenner on cdkeys for original. Why buy the remaster? And its good enough on steamdeck without upgrade.

Good! I love reading these unnecessary remasters not getting much support from the public.

Kind of a strange comparison since this is just a remaster/$10 upgrade for a game already on Steam, so the only people that are going to get it day 1 are owners of the original getting it for the upgrade. Anyone else will wait for a sale.

Here we go again, the sweet obsession with Steam numbers.
Just remember one thing. The last of us 2 remastered was one of the top 10 best sellers of 2024 first half OVERALL and it didn't release on pc.

I can already see what this site is going to post when LEGO Horizon Adventures is out ...

@dskatter There's a gigantic goldmine of pre-PS4 games that can't be played on PS5 waiting to be tapped into for remasters/remakes which would provide much more value to the PS community than PS4 remasters.

@dskatter as I said earlier, the “resources” argument is so asinine! It’s like they believe 2 things can’t be done at once. Like they believe game companies only work on a single game at a time. There’re literally teams within developers who work on many different things. Also, the ones so gleeful about this seem to ignore the fact that the studio that worked on this only does remasters.

The original looks amazing on PC , no need for an upgrade . Looks so much nicer than forbidden west does on my ps5 .

Goes to show that it was no need for the remaster at all

They should make a resistance trilogy remastered instead.or sly cooper trilogy remastered.word up son

I’m not a Horizon fan, but I do remember when Nintendo remastered Super Mario 1, 2, and 3 for the SNES which was a much bigger graphical leap than this. Mechanically they were the same games just one generation on. When people play Mario now, they play a version with the original graphics. I really don’t think Horizon made enough cultural impact for most people to pay more money 5 years later to play it again.

I keep saying this, but I really think in the long term this PC strategy will bite them in the arse.

@Americansamurai1 If they are going to launch PS Plus on PC and require a subscription to play their games online, that will not go well. Having to pay for PS Plus on console is bad enough for a feature that should be free (and was free just a couple of generations ago).

@AfroMario. Definitely a resistance trilogy remastered would do really well.word up son

@KoopaTheGamer they are not going to launch ps plus on the pc..yes it was free but how many of you here remember how unreliable and unstable it was? How many of you are willing to be honest about it because I remember very well and it was not the best service. Its much better now and no I don't like having to pay for it but it is what it is.

@AhmadSumadi I think resource talk is completely fair. Sure, this remaster didn't take resources from Guerrilla Games, but Nixxes certainly could've worked on games that would be far more interesting to remaster. And yes, they work on multiple projects at once (some for Playstation, most for PC) but that doesn't change the fact that there are dozens and dozens of cool PS3 and PS4 games that are either not playable on current gen consoles or are not available on PC.

@KoopaTheGamer I think it would be similar to game pass and just be a game library subscription.

It’s because it’s not as impressive for pc players as it is for console players so I don’t think this really tells anything. Sony just uses pc for some extra revenue it’s not a big focus so I doubt they truly care

@dark_knightmare2 Exactly, and tbh I would suspect the PC original could already be running natively at 4K, at 60FPS and with all the bells and whistles the OG playstation version didnt have as the PS4 couldn't hack it.
If it were a remake fair enough, but just a remaster doesn't make sense on PC.

This could have been a HD Texture Pack/update, of visuals/audio/animations, etc. a DLC pack of sorts but no they have to make it a remaster because why not Sony needs the money to get more from the same games over & over. Or Lego Horizon while different is just a 'Ratchet & Sackboy didn't do well so we need to milk our IPs to kids/share it with family, keep milking it when they grow up because our original family friendly IPs for that audience don't sell and the older fans purchasing of the game ratio to the families that aren't buying it reflects this'.

Well do better marketing, put better ideas in them then Sackboy is a 3D World clone that's passable of different ideas and Rift Apart was pathetic on all sides, release more family friendly IPs then or "TRY" with your game design in the few you have, not just those early and go "but but but they didn't sell". Like no duh Sony.

The original Horizon is cheap, people got it before it was remaster only version on PC (PS4 it's cheap physical/whatever digital) available they had plenty of time to buy it, get cheap in a Steam sale & more. Why else wouldn't people console or PC laugh at this remaster for fair additions yes but make that much difference to the product if 'playing it' is enough not just the enhancements or nostalgia even. Cough Astro Bot.

I already own it physical the standard edition, not my purchase, family's, they love the game I didn't care for it. Got the Complete Edition via Play At Home, played 20 hours because why not if given out for free during that period, hated it. The story/world are great, the gameplay was so boring. It fits on the side of open world design I'm not a fan of. Even Uncharted for a cinematic game the pacing/puzzles/combat/platforming was good enough for me

Last of Us or others weren't, so I have no interest in Sony's current strategy at all and Ratchet/GT7/Sackboy/Astrobot aren't appealing to me either and supported Knack/Gravity Rush and enjoyed Killzone Shadowfall/Driveclub instead the few PS4 1st party if even 3rd parties the handful I care for because I hate the PS4, worst gen for me honestly. That's not nostaglia that's game design seeking PS4 gen sucks for gameplay ideas they are weak. More story/graphics and weak gameplay ideas, none as ambitious or enjoyable enough just casual friendly boring gameplay so boring I won't pick them up. Worlds and artstyle or character design/dialogue don't sell me, gameplay ideas do, genre does.

Same with a song, the sound design does, genre does, the artist's quirks do.

You can get Horizon pre-owned for $14 AUD, and currency equivalents in a Gamestop, EB Games, Game, whatever let alone a CEX, Goodwill maybe, Cash Convertors, whatever. Sony is desperate and it shows.

If they kept the tv show going?

@dskatter Not necessarily, no one said Nixxes should be a remaster-only studio, they could be a support studio that evolves into making their own game just like Bend, and whatever time and money spent on this could’ve been spent on the next installment of the trilogy, instead of making prettier an already made and readily available game, and even if they were a remaster-only studio I’d argue those same resources could’ve been used to remaster a game that actually needs it, like half the library of PS3.

Sony could literally announce an Astro Bot remaster tomorrow and some could still try to justify it somehow…

@SuntannedDuck2 @lindos @dark_knightmare2 I see exactly what you guys are getting at here and I understand and respect that because you have not been insulting or disrespectful. However I've played the original HZD on the base ps4 and I played the last few missions on the ps5 and it was a really good game. I'm playing the remaster right now and it's a bit more than a simple remaster as there has been an awful lot of work done and it's a huge improvement over the original release...for £10 if you own the original or got it free its a bargain especially when you look at TLOU remasters and remakes which were well received by the hard-core fans they were aimed at for full price! I'm not a huge fan of remasters but when they are of this quality and have a nice price attached to them I'm more inclined to purchase them. Again I'm not dismissing your opinions but I do think this remaster is getting a lot of unwarranted flak.

Insanity to see the excuse making, copium, and myriad of absurd takes here.

The bottom line no one wanted this. That's it.

Sure some found the idea of playing yet another ps4 game being resold to them with a modest visual upgrade for 10 bucks less robbery.
Yet, for the most part, you set that price aside and no one wanted this and that was largely the consensus even when it was just rumored.
Most of us who wanted to play horizon have, and a slightly better coat of paint doesn't make an entire playthrough of a 7 year old story driven map icon laden game like this compelling.

I think a lot of people, even the ones typing brand allegiant discourse on here, if they get real with themselves, are frankly tired of the current PS rerelease strategy not to mention their overall fan base relations.

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Or they actually pushed other IPs but nope. I'm surprised Loco Roco/Parappa and Patapon even got remastered due to the state of the company, no other IPs would be getting treatment any time soon like Puppeteer at all or others. Surprised even Vib Ribbon got it's chance in the US when it did on PS1 back in the day. Same way GT 2002 Concept never went to the US but did Japan, Korea, Europe. With all the JRPGs that didn't or other equivalents Europe then USA it is surprising what old games had that type of release support.

Even Tomb Raider 2013 I had more interest in playing enough of then Rise where I went half way then dropped off, Shadow not touched, but still had more fun then God of War 2018 which I did not enjoy.

Sunset Overdrive, Infamous Second Son (some parts I didn't like) and Gravity Rush at the moment are my type of open worlds for the GAMEPLAY and movesets, not just the worlds. The tower defence then generic outposts are why I especially like Sunset Overdrive and other than lab puzzles or ground pound/laser side missions or task master challenges of Spiderman 2018 I hated the game. The story was good the gameplay/tasks were typical Spiderman getaway cars or other stuff or wow an outpost/radar blocking the map view like OTHER OPEN WORLD GAMES, so they were boring. I care about gameplay not vibes or other nonsense.

The Horizon cauldrons to me I thought would be good but were the worst part, when the open world was as boring of it's variety of things to see/do (yes even the trials were eh even if a later game thing even if for going in when underskilled for it they weren't fun to do regardless of a wait to do later about them). The game fits but feels like what I hated about PS3/360 games. Those with good gameplay ideas were great, but left behind ,those with a character/theme/world focus so bland and boring got pushed forwards.

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I can say the same for racing games, those with interesting modes/mechanics to change the genre died off and left behind but well worth my time to pick up these days, so we got the mainstream generic game design/progression/focus casuals wanted with the focus on graphics, physics, COUGH boring locations in open world ones because it's all about location, why have gameplay be fun just recreate a boring real world city, and what licensed cars were there, it didn't matter what modes, we get barely anything of the sort now and the bare minimum what boring products.

I'll stick to old racing games thanks. I can have more fun in Project Gotham Racing not because of the real world cities, but because of the layouts, because of the modes, the progression not because of the car brands or oh it's set in this city. I don't play games for holiday destinations and recreations of reality (same way I wouldn't Horizon for it's alternate history versions of real world locations either).

It's like engineering/building, you want the building to be more artistically interesting, but also have the structural foundation, not look pretty and be forgettable and shoved with sponsors all the time for it's venues. Or a song. A song with good instruments/samples, not dull backing track and singing so forgettable. If the complete song is varied I'll listen if it's boring backing track then pass that goes for lyricsless songs too (my preferred), they need to be good of sound design or else why bother.

Thanks playerbase (hardcore are small I know but casuals are bigger and I blame them for the products we get these days while i buy up mechanically interesting old games and very few of them on modern gen if any) and your non gameplay focus and why I don't support PS5/Series X at all. Why I don't care about a single 1st party title at all.

Hmm, spend $10 for the upgrade or on some greasy fast food hamburgers? Welp, never was a choice, burgers it is, much better value.

Don't care about who made it, the cost to upgrade, etc. To me it's just so boring. So very boring...
Playstation is just so boring now, what the ***** happened?!!

Are there any notable differences that should compel me to not just buy a used copy for the PS4? That seems to be the way to go.

@Ichiban Selling to casuals is what. Back Compat is for the hardcore so to basically shut us up and casuals buy whatever they see in the news/in a tv show aka to mediums they pay attention to.

Milk Lego Horizon for the kids because they won't play Sackboy/Ratchet so milk Horizon that way and push them to the remaster, and the next remake and so on. It's just disgusting.

Making games that even besides being movie like, make the gameplay as easy to understand for casuals (even if Last of Us in a gaming for non gamers video I saw was confusing with the fire at the gas station and a 90 degree turn but that's minor, the signs we see in games they miss and aren't always well communicated, we understand red for explosive or the white/yellow paint ,do they if it's explained to them maybe, they play games for a thing to pass the time not a hobby like we do or remember all the details. It's funny I got asked at a book store because I buy so many, how do you remember where your up to' and I just go well I just do, I catalogue them with a document, I have a large number of them on an end table/bedside table and I just remember the content because I focus on entertainment a lot or think a lot so my brain I guess just remembers a lot of the entertainment events and details (I didn't detail it THAT much but I would have the later half) so to me it's surprising how much people can probably be that real life focused or empty brained besides the core things of survival or take mostly small talk so much then discussions, assuming that is), and dumb the games down.

Focus on story/realistic artstyles and make boring games for people with not as much imagination. That's what. Make them simple enough to play but world engaging. Have key places they are familiar with, have less playground like level design. Aka the things I seek don't end up in games is less playground design, sigh. Generic missinos with dialogue, combat but nothing too experimental those go to the side missions if they do even.

Too much fitting the themes then actually gameplay to fit the movesets of the characters.

Infamous Second Son to me the story missions were so generic yet the side missions felt more like the character or mechanically more engaging. The story missions to me felt like for casuals.

Experimental titles are few and far between for a reason, wide appeal sales and that's it.

Uncharted to me fit a line, sure The Getaway or Jet Li or Primal or Mark of Kri tried to push teen/adult audience type stuff same with God of War or Socom and such but Uncharted really pushed the we have to have movie type games but the thing I find weird is that. Even though it is an action adventure movie about an explorer yes and pretty typical but also fair moments of it's own besides it's inspiration, to me the gameplay of the puzzles, combat, platforming and more was balanced per scene/chapter, nowadays I find the other IPs don't fit that balance as much and are just not as good and just bland and forgettable.

@Kingy I think it was visuals, animations, not sure if re-recorded lines and a few other details to enhance the game (not sure if quality of life features), not sync or synced trophy list I can't remember, some say it does, some say it doesn't.

They do explain it in another article or try the PS Blog or reviewers that do expand on it as even with Push Square's article I felt I was still missing a few details not listed but I could be wrong.

Sounds to me more like no one wants to spend $10 on something they can do for free using nexus mods

@Northern_munkey I always assumed and get the impression Last of Us remasters/remakes were like the tv show intended for newcomers aka casuals, not hardcore, they will buy it but it's intended to expand the audience, get them into gaming. How else do they get more sales not just the same sales over and over from the same audience and those that drop of or pull away by doing this not just dropped off since the last release.

Nixxes can be a port studio or remaster studio but did they have to remaster this no they didn't but Sony pushed it anyway. No tv show, oh a remaster will do instead. XD Great milking strategy besides Lego Horizon for those that didn't buy Ratchet/Sackboy/Astro Bot clearly. Yeah as if we haven't seen through that Sony.

I just prefer different game design really, Horizon has it's appeal but the gameplay wasn't one of them. I prefer Sunset Overdrive or Gravity Rush or Infamous Second Son, I am not an open world fan those are the few I did like because of their gameplay decisions. I treated them the same way I would a platformer or racing game (modes, challenges, that sort of thing) with how they handled their content. I didn't care if I was in Seattle in Infamous Second Son or what the dialogue was half the time, it was a fair story but wasn't the focus, I do play some games for story but 99% of the time I don't, as long as the movesets/abilities or level design (the lack of playground design in open worlds annoys me as I don't care for recreations or fictional cities, when Skating games can make the fictional/real world elements fun to play if they make the benches, ramps, rails and more exciting to chain together & I haven't even played a skating game but they offer that interactivity with them other games don't that's why I get so annoyed, it doesn't have to be blowing up buildings or a voxel survival game with digging/placing it elsewhere, just doing something with them that's more interesting) were good and the missions were decent I enjoyed them.

It's why I found the cauldrons sucked the most. Not just the boring variety of tasks that 'suit the world' but aren't fun in the slightest to collect, kill, etc. All generic things in any game, it fitting the theme doesn't make it stand out to play.

Like a song, if the backing track sucks why would I bother listening, the sound design needs to be more compelling, aka the gameplay design needs to be more fun. Lyrics I take or leave if they put a spin on the messaging/themes, else they are generic and forgettable not just how the singer sounds. If samples/instruments sound design sucks it's a boring song it's that simple. It needs even a little bit to be interesting, it can be complex or that bit exciting not flat and boring.

Pitfall 2004 your a human but it's still more fun in a metroidvania/Zelda way with the items you use to attack or animations or exploration (something I wise Biomutant did, not just gas immunity but traits for the animal characters in the character creator the gas immunity is to expand upon in the skill trees and opening up areas the gas immunity has a purpose for but vehicles or a glider why not swim trait, dig trait, flight trait, but nope, to have better exploration opportunities, Foamstars modes, 2 done to death ones, I always say the ones I came up with even if not good more then the game offers).

Part 2:
Then any modern games playing as a non superhuman type character but the items alone even beside the more cartoony angle than the serious Uncharted (Uncharted having more better balance pacing regardless of being a linear game, that pacing is what i don't see in open worlds and why I find 99% of them boring), Tomb Raider (I enjoyed TR2013 even if yes can be comparable in areas but the tombs/little secrets, the weapon pacing and such, same with how Space Marine does it, I think was that bit more exciting then Horizon for me even besides being small regions and not open world either, while God of War 2018 comparable of small regions like TR 2013 but just didn't feel as fun to me to play).

I have family that are into the 1st Horizon game (they didn't like what Forbidden West added/changed) but not interested in the remaster I think I don't know. They haven't talked about it much or already played it enough.

@K-Wud Will it really? The only way it bite them back. Is if Nintendo or another company all of a sudden decides to release an actual home console that can truly run modern games comparable to what we see from PlayStation or Xbox… Because at this point, Xbox is no competition; and everyone isn’t suddenly going to get up and move to PC.

We're just as sick of the slop on PC as we are on PS5.

@KundaliniRising333 I want it, i’ve never played the game before. This remaster actually works out perfectly for me. But im admittedly probably part of a small group of people who want to play it, but still havent.
Although i must say, even though people were initially very skeptical about this remaster, i feel like general sentiment towards it has changed.

PCMR babies at it again.

@Ichiban Did you not play Astro Bot? Stellar Blade? Rise of Ronin? FF7 Rebirth? Helldivers 2? Silent Hills 2 Remake? Black Myth? That's just the console exclusives or straight up exclusives this year and not counting the bucket load of 3rd party games this year or the mountain of Indies.

Honestly this is a you issue not a PS5 issue. There's stacks of games for it.

@TrickyDicky99 bingo

This isn't "the novelty is wearing off". This is "PC gamers have a lot more sense and patience than fomo child-minded console gamers. They expect games are good forever, don't buy into full priced "same game with a graphics mod" reissues, there's no $10 upgrade on PC, and the full game was $12 just weeks ago. Who'd pay full price for a shinier newer version when the old one looks better than it does on console already, then has mods to make to look even better, and costs $12?

The whole recent remaster thing is very much a console only kind of thing. In this case it's acceptable on console because it's pretty and it's cheap as a paid gfx mod. Was never going to move on PC. Well, not until it's cheap

@somnambulance the problem with that, which Sony realized, is that people that buy a PlayStation to buy a handful of exclusives but play third party elsewhere don't actually make them much money. They don't care about retaining customers that buy "for the exclusives" because they just aren't profitable customers. They make more money reaching market that doesn't buy consoles than they do from the people that buy consoles only to play those games.

How they ARE backfiring on strategy is requiring psn logins, where half they market they're missing on console, the stopped THEMSELVES from being able to access.

EDIT: I stand corrected, @LowDefAl pointed out that the upgrade exists on PC. I don't recall ever reading that but I checked after you said it, and so it does. I'm actually impressed. If Luke Ross updates the VR mod to support it, and he probably will because he already supports hfw and it's the same engine, I'll actually upgrade and consider playing again.

Stop 👏 Remastering 👏 Everything 👏

Considering the took the OG PC game from sale, forced psn, cranked up the price, took it of ps+ and then increased the price of the base ps4 game....

Obviously not for the devs but for Sony I really hope it dosnt do very well

@KundaliniRising333 theres also a point to be made about gamers are allowed to have slightly different gaming tastes than one another without being judged online for it all the time but that's the internet tho isn't it. There's not many open world games that would work properly without some kind of map for the player to use. So many open world games would become a borefest chore without the use of a map. Imagine a huge open world game where it takes 3 hours per side mission to find them or 3 hours per small collectable

Maybe it's because this remaster is the most ridiculous cash grab ever coming from an already greedy company. Why would I pay 10 bucks for the same game with slightly greener textures? Also increasing the price of the original from 20 to 40 usd a week prior to releasing this is yet another spit on the face of its consumer base. Vote with your wallet people.

This game didn't need a remaster, with just a few small tweaks to the original it looks like it could've released a week ago, which is exactly what the devs did when porting it to PC in 2020. This remaster was unnecessary at best and a waste of money at worst, people can just play the original, which still looks great, and not worry about the game running 10x worse. It's not that PC players are no longer interested in Sony porting games to Steam, it's that Sony's recent games have been terribly ported or are pointless remasters that run infinity worse than the original. Of course Last of Us 1 gets an exception because it's just a pointless remaster that ram terribly immediately, but there's not a way to officially play the original on PC. I wanted to buy Until Dawn on Steam, but haven't because of the quality of the port, so I'm waiting to see if it gets better. There's also the fact that Sony isn't porting the games people want. I would instantly scoop up Shadow of Colossus if it was ported, I've seen dozens and dozens of people beg for a Bloodborne port, how about Uncharted or God of War 1-3? But no, we're getting two remasters of games that still look and play amazingly and that no one was asking for.

Sony isn't getting the memo, if they want sales on Steam, PORT THE GAMES THE PEOPLE WANT!

@fabio1 The remaster doesn't even look that much better than the original yet it runs so much worse, that is impressive

Over 4 years later. Took them long enough. When are PC users going to hit the 8 millions sales milestone the PS4 version did in 365 days??? Oh right, NEVER.

Neither is being played much on PC. That's what you need to be taking away from this but you won't and neither will anyone else.
Every single PS single player game brought to PC has been a gigantic flop.... LONG before PSN logging in was a thing... so before 6 months ago really.

@DrUnfunny The original ran like crap on PC too.

What I want to know is, where are all the grifter clowns that said "Durr so the remaster is basically the PC version then????"?
Yeah, the remaster is based on the broken PC version that couldn't even do the vegetation and hair physics properly until 6 months after launch lol.

@Skeletor85 Hear, hear.

I played the remaster all weekend and I love it! Such a huge leap in graphical fidelity to the original. Does the original still look beautiful? Yes! Does the remaster look way better? Yes!

@somnambulance I think it's about percentages. Customer retention would be important if it were a majority share of their profits, but it really isn't, the "loyal" "exclusives only" customers are such a small percentage of their revenue and profits they really just don't matter very much. The money comes from the GTA/Fortnite/Roblox/whatever crowd. They either need to be concerned only with whatever keeps those players buying on PS, or they need to be concerned with generating their own must-have equivalent (the live service initiative.) Or they need to be like Nintendo and change their business model so that it's pretty much only about the exclusives as a whole model. But selling hardware to people "for the exclusives" is pretty much like paying yourself tips for serving yourself dinner. It moves product "number" but does nothing on finances.

I don't think the PC initiative is the issue, their games are pretty much useless without spreading beyond PS. PS customers don't buy enough to sustain their rising costs. Putting games on PC, just means PC-only players don't buy a console "for the exclusives" anymore. But PC players that bought a PS "for the exclusives" were hardly generating much revenue at all, while porting the games to PC native opens it up to a larger overall market, meanwhile Sony makes fewer overall games anyway.

At the end of the day the "exclusives only" console buyer nets Sony, maybe $20 on the hardware, and an extra $30% on a few games sold, at the cost of keeping their market for their games smaller than it could be and reaching more customers.

If Sony had plans for this "remaster" for a while they should have just released it on PC and skipped the original.

From the PC perspective the original is a more recent release and now there is “already” a remaster? I bought the original for PS4 day 1 and I still felt it was too soon for a remaster. So I can see users with machines just as or more powerful than a PS5 not being bothered (especially if they aren’t aware what has changed). That being said I hope sony stays the course. They keep going all in for PC and i don’t have to buy a PS6. Win win for me.

@somnambulance 😂 I love it! We need to get that started, #beachthewhales!

Yeah I totally agree. The whales are ALL that matters now. And the money backs it up. On the other hand I can kind of get the appeal. As a vr nms fan that just played for months and months, splatoon addict, and recently getting into VR sim racing and elite dangerous games that live for years and suck you into another breathing world, there's a lot to like in some of that, and to actually get good you really need to play for years. But the industry isn't into that because it's not actually monetized at all. They only care about monetizing.

And yet I still love my fixed length games as much as ever . Problem really is the market can't bear higher costs, yet the industry committed itself to ever rising production costs. The numbers just don't add up. In a lot of ways naughty dog ruined the industry. Sony raced to bottle their success and capture Hollywood with a controller, competitors all lined up to copy it and then after committing to it they all figured out they can't quadruple revenue by doubling the budget.

I'm wondering how gta6 will go. It'll sell great but by all rumors they're spending far far far too much on it, betting the whole company on it, and theres no guarantee that gta6 will replace gta5 for shark card whales.

@AhmadSumadi Or! Or! They just don't want the "remaster".

@somnambulance Unfortunately I agree. I think that's more or less exactly what's going to happen. I think Nintendo and PC will be fine and will remain home of the masses. Xbox and PS have a very very difficult, self inflicted path.

@somnambulance TBH with discounts I'm not even sure the piracy thing is a major factor even. It exists but I'm not sure it has a huge effect on sales. Even the pirates have more legal games in their backlog than they can play in their lifetime.

I think in a lot of ways, Microsoft actually got it the most almost right for the future. The streaming subscription model is how the world consumes media today. They got the trend better than anyone but then bungled the messaging, while publishers feeding at the PlayStation through actively rejected it because the old model was working..... But now it's starting to not. I think Ms actually saw it coming. But managed it all wrong.

I agree though, PlayStation despite being top, despite being default, is in a dangerous position. I liken current PS to Kmart. Ib the 90s they were #2 retailer behind only Sears. Management wrote off Walmart as a regional store, not a competitor, "grocery will kill them". They were comfortable at #1 and decided to not invest in remodeling their stores and instead spent all the money on buying new chains. Pizza (little Caesars), books (Borders), sporting goods (sports authority), home improvement (builders square). All of which went under. Meanwhile the #1 stores were dated and not at cheap and didn't have grocery like Walmart. They tried to add grocery but got retail guys to handle grocery and had aisles of canned goods and boxed goods and some frozen and staple dairy and not produce or much else. They rapidly were sinking. Then management lied to investors about how bad things were and gave themselves payouts (pleaded guilty in court!), sold the whole thing to a hedge guy who then spent the rest of the cash buying Sears itself. And they both sunk together. From the top 1 and 2 retailer from the 90s, thousands of locations, to, rumor says, 3 stores of each remaining with no inventory inside. With the management, ps reminds me a lot of 90s Kmart when they were "#2" behind Sears. Pretty sure I see Herman stacking cans in "grocery".

I own the original on PS4 and steam but I've only paid for the upgrade on ps5 I don't think my steam deck will look and play as good as my ps5 version does.

@andrewsqual Maybe for you, sure. I played a few years after launch when I could cop a sale, and it ran amazing. Although I see your point, I wasn't there for the initial launch so thanks for letting me know. Yeah, seems like there's a pattern, which a lot of companies seem to be having for some reason, optimizing their games for PC. Capcom immediately comes to mind on this topic.

Another point about these Sony exclusives not doing well on PC, people are waiting for sales.

@EfYI I rather buy them so they can keep making games. But its not a secret that PC are cheap with software. I also had a friend like that had the most expensive PC but zero official games. To be fair it's not that strange you are probably broke after buying the GPU.

The remaster keeps crashing when I fast travel to the meridian fire. Almost every time. Hope they fix it soon

@somnambulance Yeah, that's exactly it. I think both for fans, and for the company itself (and the image they paint for their shareholders) everyone across the board is blinded by Sony's raw sales figures in units, and their #1 position, without looking at the nuiance of what's really going on inside and the industry at large. While their revenues are great by being the default system, they've ended up in a position where there's no actual reason to purchase their product beyond that a competitor with a stronger reason to buy doesn't exist, and "because everyone else has one" becomes their main appeal. But there's a lot of competitors around the edges eating at that market steadily.

While I'm part of the Xbox mutiny in part, I agree, though the internet makes it seem dire, and although their console hardware sales are deeply stalled, their overall business seems steady, and, even if due to "buying the industry" poised for slow-but-steady continuous growth overall, even if mostly in software. Their platform is genuinely good, merely unpopular, and they have their fingers in many pies, for whatever way the winds blow, while Sony keeps retrenching to dig in, because they can not endure their existing model to falter.

Ironically, I think the market for a fixed console would have remained solid had Sony not gone the route of "premium brand" and jacking prices up and up. The Playstation is successful because it was an affordable commodity product. The more they try to drag it into being a premium luxury product, the smaller they shrink their TAM, and the more their core market erodes. Chasing the live service cash cows in a panic to offset this, ended up severely weakening their position instead, by losing large amounts of cash, and leaving giant holes in their product value/incentives, they've left the window wide open for competition to undermine them.

All they had to do was serve the customer rather than seeking endless growth and they'd have had a steady, loyal business.

I do think a lot of this goes back to Jimbo though. Yes, Herman is a massive problem, but remember it was Jim who ousted Layden and brought up Herman to replace him as a fellow traveler sharing similar ideals. No Jimbo, no Herman. Though we also ignore Ken Yoshida (not Shu, no relation) SGC CEO. Whether he prodded Jim to do as he did, or merely drank Jim's koolaid, he didn't help.

Capcom has been hitting sales goals, but IMO they've been doing pretty bafflingly poorly with games that people keep excusing despite being problematic releases. Sega, IMO might be the pinnacle of the game industry these days, doing almost everything right, which is just vindication if you're an old school Sega fan that watched them spiral down, only to see them now at arguably their peak.

@somnambulance Concord vs redfall is interesting because it's a truism in gaming. The only thing worse than a broken game is a boring one. Refall was broken but was still a unique game underneath it. Concord felt like a generic copy of a different game, even if it was a good copy. And predictably redfall massively outsold it even if it still failed.

I still think Jimbo put Hulst on this pedestal because he wanted him making that noise though. Jim built the monster that is Hulst. But hulst is just insane now. I think as soon as Hirai retired is when things started heading downhill. Hirai kept things in order after Tretton and House. There was just lag before their mission changed to Jim's.

For me between Yakuza, Atlus, new sonic etc, Sega is at a peak they haven't been to since the mega drive/Genesis.

@somnambulance To be fair to Hulst, Phil merely had a game that flopped on his hands. Hulst had the greatest failure ever recorded in the industry entirely of his own making. It might make sense why Phil reacted like he failed, and Hulst reacted like just discovered a body in his linen closet.

Interesting points on Hulst, and I agree, I never expected him to get PROMOTED. I often said that when I called for Jim to go, Herman also needed to go, but I didn't expect instead that they'd promote him to even half of Jim's job. And that's very interesting about Dreams, I'd never heard that!

Sega really maybe the only publisher that just keeps nailing it. Heck, even one of Nintendo's biggest IPs today, Splatoon, is given a very heavy dose of Jet Set Radio behind it.

@somnambulance I don't think Concord could have become less generic and unnecessary though. And adding a campaign at the cost of an all new development cycle for a game already mired in bad press and a doomed IP when they could claim tax write of instead didn't make financial sense. They had to kill it. But the part that makes no sense is why Herman thought this was the future of the company. To me that's great insight as to his thinking. If it checks off the boxes of focus tested success it can't fail. No comprehension of what the market wants, just the ability to copy success metrics.

The problem is Herman isn't a games guy at all. He's a business suit from marketing, like Jim. He also doesn't get product. He's not a dev or designer, he's just a business man and marketer that painted his image to look like a rock star. He doesn't get gaming. He never did. He just sells product.

@somnambulance that's a good point about him saying no major IP release this year while releasing concord which he said was the future if the company and a star wars level ip. And clearly he didn't think much of astrobot. Pretty sure he doesn't think highly of Japanese studios and their "not god of war" numbers.

Lol about abandoned. Yeah that was the most bizarre possible thing. Sometimes I think PlayStation is nothing but a marketing agency that doesn't actually know anything about its video games business. Ever since kutaragi stepped down, hirai, tretton and house carried the torch for a while but after them, we got this.